Thought it was decent. Final act made up for how long it took to get moving. CGI Tarkin and Vader were low points for me.

jabberwalkie09 said:

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redline248 said:

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I know it's been talked about, but I failed to do so in my first post, and wanted to restate:

Vader's destroyer entering the fight was so f-cking cool. I bet that rebel ship's captain sh-t his pants before smashing itself to pieces.

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One thing I really liked in Rogue One was how the ships didn't just explode into a bazillion pieces, but rather they broke apart. Watching the two Star Destroyers collide and eventually hit the gate was really something else. Same thing when Vader's ship arrived and that light cruiser didn't just explode, it pretty much crumpled like a beer can.

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Except how does one ship made of the exact same materials as the second ship it is running into, slice the second ship basically in two?

agracer said:

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jabberwalkie09 said:

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redline248 said:

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I know it's been talked about, but I failed to do so in my first post, and wanted to restate:

Vader's destroyer entering the fight was so f-cking cool. I bet that rebel ship's captain sh-t his pants before smashing itself to pieces.

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One thing I really liked in Rogue One was how the ships didn't just explode into a bazillion pieces, but rather they broke apart. Watching the two Star Destroyers collide and eventually hit the gate was really something else. Same thing when Vader's ship arrived and that light cruiser didn't just explode, it pretty much crumpled like a beer can.

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Except how does one ship made of the exact same materials as the second ship it is running into, slice the second ship basically in two?

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you can use a diamond to cut a diamond.

it's all about the force and angle of impact. it hit it right in the "neck" area for lack of a better term. kinda like it went into it there with it's edge.

also - ever seen a car wreck??? - cars are made of the same material. but the one doing the hitting might not have as much damage as the hittee....my daughters car was literally totalled by another car that had very little damage to it's bumper.

I'm curious, for those that had a problem with the CGI, what is an example of really good CGI use in depicting a real life person? Not a made up character that looks real, a simulation of an actual human being.

agracer said:

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jabberwalkie09 said:

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redline248 said:

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I know it's been talked about, but I failed to do so in my first post, and wanted to restate:

Vader's destroyer entering the fight was so f-cking cool. I bet that rebel ship's captain sh-t his pants before smashing itself to pieces.

---

One thing I really liked in Rogue One was how the ships didn't just explode into a bazillion pieces, but rather they broke apart. Watching the two Star Destroyers collide and eventually hit the gate was really something else. Same thing when Vader's ship arrived and that light cruiser didn't just explode, it pretty much crumpled like a beer can.

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Except how does one ship made of the exact same materials as the second ship it is running into, slice the second ship basically in two?

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Vader's destroyer was coming out of lightspeed too so he is just gonna plow through smaller ships like a full speed semi vs a speeding up compact car

twilly said:

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I'm curious, for those that had a problem with the CGI, what is an example of really good CGI use in depicting a real life person? Not a made up character that looks real, a simulation of an actual human being.

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Antman

But even then, they had a live Michael Douglas to go off of.

twilly said:

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I'm curious, for those that had a problem with the CGI, what is an example of really good CGI use in depicting a real life person? Not a made up character that looks real, a simulation of an actual human being.

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for the record I thought it was really well done for Tarkin myself....Leia not so much but it was brief.



PS - it was not pure CGI. There was an actor and then it was digitally altered.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/rogue-one-how-grand-moff-tarkin-peter-cushing-returned-957258

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The work on display in Rogue One is an impressive new example of the potential for creating CG human characters the audience at last weekend's Hollywood premiere erupted in enthusiastic applause at the return of familiar characters like Tarkin and it will no doubt spark plenty of debate about how, and why, CG humans could be used in future movies. (If money is no object, could a producer threaten a difficult actor with a CG replacement?)

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Here was a reviewer that was fooled and thought it was done well:

http://venturebeat.com/2016/12/18/spoilers-rogue-ones-computer-generated-human-fooled-me/

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But as I discovered afterward, Rogue One's Tarkin was entirely computer-generated. He's the first virtual human being that really fooled me into thinking he was human. I didn't detect any subtle flaws in his face or movements or voice, even though he had multiple scenes in the film. I expect that the Tarkin scenes will generate as much conversation, especially in Silicon Valley, than the rest of the movie, at least among geeks.

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Personally I knew he died but I thought it was done so well I assumed they had another actor that was a dead ringer (so to speak). I tuned it out after the first scene and just watched the movie - I'll have to focus on it more closely on later viewings.

DannyDuberstein said:

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Quote:

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Vader were low points for me.

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I thought the 2nd Vader scene was one of the best of any Star Wars. We've never seen him unleash like that. That was what should have been in Ep III.

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yeah i wasn't sure what he meant either.

the first scene was kinda meh - with the lame pun and choke hold

but the last scene - that was badass.

Going for viewing #2 today with the kiddos.

I really need to see the Ep IV Tarkin side by side with the Rogue 1 Tarkin.

I didn't think it was awful but there was something "off" about him that I couldn't really put my finger on. Maybe it was simply the fact that I knew the actor was dead and/or that it wasn't possible someone could not age since the late 70s.

I thought Tarkin looked fine (saw in 2D). The main issue I noticed, which I thought was very minor, how his mouth moved vs. the audio of his voice. Extremely subtle, but something did seem slightly amiss.

That said, this did not bother me at all, and if I had not known going in, I would not have picked up on any of it.

wangus12 said:

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agracer said:

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jabberwalkie09 said:

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redline248 said:

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I know it's been talked about, but I failed to do so in my first post, and wanted to restate:

Vader's destroyer entering the fight was so f-cking cool. I bet that rebel ship's captain sh-t his pants before smashing itself to pieces.

---

One thing I really liked in Rogue One was how the ships didn't just explode into a bazillion pieces, but rather they broke apart. Watching the two Star Destroyers collide and eventually hit the gate was really something else. Same thing when Vader's ship arrived and that light cruiser didn't just explode, it pretty much crumpled like a beer can.

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Except how does one ship made of the exact same materials as the second ship it is running into, slice the second ship basically in two?

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Vader's destroyer was coming out of lightspeed too so he is just gonna plow through smaller ships like a full speed semi vs a speeding up compact car

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Exactly. Start Destroyers have crumple zones! Duh!

Actually, let's assume the same properties as steel just beefed up for space combat, etc. I think the angle and position that one ship his the other would matter as well. The way I saw it, the disabled SD's main edge (where the bulk of it's inertia and momentum would focus) struck the active SD between the lower hull and upper hull (leading up to the bridge) essentially point loading it at a weak point and shearing through it, partially... I'd have to rewatch it again though.

It's possible, but I agree it would have helped believably if the disabled SD had struck the active SD in the "neck" between the upper hull and the bridge. Again, this was not a problem for me.

The main music I remember is when Vader is standing on the platform after the rebels were just able to undock and get away. I liked it and that probably helped override any negative impression of the rest. There may have been one other moment (which I can't recall) where I felt similar. So maybe in my case, it may have been 1-2 specific positives bailed out a lot of weak and forgettable music. Also, given it's only been one viewing and there is so much to take in between plot, visuals, etc, this is definitely the type of thing I'd have a more accurate evalutation of after multiple viewings.

Yep, I did the same yesterday. I am going to blame Lucasfilm for this one. It really sounds like it was an impossible task for Giacchino. I wonder if he will ever get another crack at a Star Wars film.

yeah the music might be my only complaint.

twilly said:

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I'm curious, for those that had a problem with the CGI, what is an example of really good CGI use in depicting a real life person? Not a made up character that looks real, a simulation of an actual human being.

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It's like they took Tron Legacy and made it better. But they should have used better camera angle creativity to hide the CGI as much as possible.

In the behind the scenes music reel, Giacchino does not personally direct the orchestra; it is someone else. When I have seen videos with Williams, he is usually directing the musicians. Anybody know which is more normal for film score composers?

twilly said:

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I'm curious, for those that had a problem with the CGI, what is an example of really good CGI use in depicting a real life person? Not a made up character that looks real, a simulation of an actual human being.

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I assume the complaint isn't that they could do the CGI better; it's that they did the CGI. I know that I've already stated this, but I'm glad they tried it. Tarkin was necessary to the film. Peter Cushing is Tarkin.

twilly said:

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I'm curious, for those that had a problem with the CGI, what is an example of really good CGI use in depicting a real life person? Not a made up character that looks real, a simulation of an actual human being.

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I cant think of any. Which is why they shouldn't have gone that route.

They should have done what Rosanne did with Becky or Harry Potter did with Dumbledore.

AliasMan02 said:

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They need to give Kevin Kiner (composer for TCW and Rebels) a shot at the big time.

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Being that they gave Giacchino a whole 4-6 weeks, I'm willing to give him a pass. Desplat's score must have been terrible.

Saul Goodman said:

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bangobango said:

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The more I think about it, the more I think TFA was a far superior movie to Rogue one. I had a major issue with them basically redoing episode IV, but there is no doubt in my mind I'd much rather rewatch TFA than Rogue One if I were holding between the two.

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As much as I liked R1, I think I'll probably rewatch TFA more. Visually, R1 was superior and it had Vader (my favorite Star Wars character), but I feel more engaged with TFA.

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That was my initial thought too. I think there was more character development with TFA, which made me feel more connected to the main characters.

However, they had to pack a LOT into R1 to fit it in one movie, so other than Jyn...there really wasn't enough time to get a deep background on the rest of the team. Which is ok, because the plot was outstanding, along with the visuals...and of course Vader.

It's just a different kind of Star Wars movie...which is good for the franchise. I really hope they can do a 'Kenobi' movie cut from the same mold as this.

Philip J Fry said:

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Desplat's score must have been terrible.

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Or it was written for a film that was very different, and he either didn't have the time to re-write or wasn't willing to do it with the time constraint. Then again, it could have just sucked like you said.

I saw it in 2D and thought Tarkin looked awesome. At first I thought it was Charles Dance in makeup! lol (which on second thought, wouldn't have been a bad idea)

I think the Star Wars Stories are supposed to have a different feel than the core plot. I noticed some of the same things but I won't let nitpicking bother me nor ruin the film. As Disney takes over I see a huge improvement in general from TFA to R1. This has me even more excited for the franchise with next year's Ep VIII. I hope they keep these as PG13. Since 80's PG is now way different than todays standards.

I really wish Disney would go back and refill 1-3. Won't happen so there ya go.

Survived ewoks so I think we can let slide an imperfect (but damn good) CGI Tarkin.

You know the more I think about it....I'm really pissed Porkins didn't make a cameo...

BrownCoat said:

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You know the more I think about it....I'm really pissed Porkins didn't make a cameo...

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They did have someone that was of the bigger persuasion that i thought was him until he was blown up.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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DannyDuberstein said:

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Quote:

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Vader were low points for me.

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I thought the 2nd Vader scene was one of the best of any Star Wars. We've never seen him unleash like that. That was what should have been in Ep III.

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yeah i wasn't sure what he meant either.

the first scene was kinda meh - with the lame pun and choke hold

but the last scene - that was badass.

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The first scene is what is was mostly referring to. The voice didn't seem quite right, or maybe it was the dialogue. It was like James Earl Jones was doing a Darth Vader impression instead of being Darth Vader. The generic choke and the sassiness. I don't know. Felt like fanficton.

Quote:

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twilly said:
I'm curious, for those that had a problem with the CGI, what is an example of really good CGI use in depicting a real life person? Not a made up character that looks real, a simulation of an actual human being.

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Honestly, probably none. Westworld and Marvel have done de-aging, but I think the uncanny valley can be too much in other instances. I thought Snoak looked like **** too, for example. It probably doesn't help that so much is not CGI. Tarkin and Groot and Rocket could have a conversation and I'd be convinced, but Tarkin and Krennik with a bunch of other humans and I see through it too easily.

If Tarkin had had a few lines and you barely saw enough of him to question it, it'd be one thing. But the camera stayed on his face for so long that you could see all the creepy imperfections.

In a way, I would have preferred that for the Vader ass-kicking too - the less we clearly see of it, the better. Like in Alien and Aliens, you get more terror by not seeing him twirl his sword around in open daylight. But I'm probably in the minority this time.

I thought the movie was good but not "great."

It lacked the "adventure" feel of the other Episodes . . . so we were left with a war movie. Which is fine...but it wasn't all THAT great of a war movie because there was barely any character development.

War movies work on the fact that you care about the people in it. Rouge One did not do a good job with making you actually care about anyone onboard Rogue One.

So there's 661 posts that I'm not going to go back and read after seeing a 9:30 showing last night, but I really enjoyed the film. Very well paced and some great characters, and Donnie Yen stole the show.

Onto the animated/CG characters as that's my area of expertise...

Others are correct that de-aging is a very different process than creating a new CG human character. We've seen it done pretty convincingly in Ant Man and the X-Men films among other applications, it's more or less an application of digital makeup. What makes it work is the actual person underneath that's driving the performance.

We've also seen lots of full CG non-human characters that are quite convincing. All the apes in the last installment of Planet of the Apes, creatures through the LOTR, Harry Potter, and Star Wars films, Avatar, etc.

Digital stunt doubles are also far more common than most people realize and 99% of moviegoers don't notice them. You've missed far more than you've caught in almost every blockbuster out there, at a distance they usually hold up quite well.

What doesn't hold is a human face delivering dialogue close up. The best I've seen was probably Paul Walker in the last F&F film, but a full digital human face at anything more than a passing glance at close range just looks a bit off.

The reason is exactly what's been mentioned, the "I don't know what it is but it just doesn't look right" feeling that people have when watching. We see human faces delivering dialogue at close range every day, and the digital recreations just aren't able to pick up on the subtlety and nuance that a real life person has.

Tarkin definitely needed to be included for story purposes and I think all things considered they did a really good job, if you watch they also made it a point to have a good number of shots where the camera focused on Krennic when Tarkin was talking. Leia looked a bit more off to me than Tarkin, I'd need to watch it again to nitpick that one a bit more.