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Also the detective work that Ray did to get from the jewelry store sister to the brother being the film set photographer, was nothing short of amazing. Ages are pretty close. Bingo. Mysetery solved. True detective.

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Did they even talk to him when they visited the set, months before? Why would they have any reason to remember him? How would they know his age?


The "coincidences" in this season almost reached Newsroom levels of ridiculousness. Almost.

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I think you're asking a bit too much if you're looking for actual detective work from a show called True Detective.

I've seen Law and Order episodes that put more discovery and detective work into things.

When people start referencing the Maltese Falcon or Chinatown I started wondering if they actually remember those movies. Same "style"? Sure, its a crime noir... But you didn't finish those movies needing a 20 paragraph breakdown to explain the mystery -- nor did it drop the culprit from a list of spare characters that barely had any lines.

Bunk, you called out the writing plot holes on The Shield in a previous post on this thread -- that show had it's faults but the writing was far and away better than the 8 episodes we just watched.

I know there's a strong liking for S1 of the show, but after watching both seasons I've come to my conclusion that Harrelson and MM carried S1 in spite of the shoddy writing, and this season Farrel and to a somewhat lesser degree McAdams tried to but couldn't overcome it (I think VV is a fine actor, but the crap he was given to say in this show was remarkably bad). I never read Galveston so I can't comment on NP's ability as a novel writer, but it's clear to me he's not cut out for writing for television.

I've been reading, and have yet to make any significant comments, and being someone who has yet to go and watch Season 1 (I promise its in the queue), I come at it from the angle of having no basis of comparison.

That being said, I thought this show was ok. The dialogue was ridiculous at times, the acting was a bit overdone, and the story had huge plot holes in it. That being said I didn't hate it. It was one of those shows by about episode 7 that I had invested too much in it and wanted to see it out. And thats funny because it took to about episode 3 to get me interested. I actually walked away for a couple of weeks after Velcoro was shot in episode 2. It just didn't grab me...

One thing that has bothered me from last night that I didn't see mentioned:

Vinci has a private contractor para-military wing? Really? I know it was originally funded and owned by the corporation, but after almost all major players had died, and they were privy to a mountain of corruption, conspiracy, and murder charges, they stuck around. Austin was dead, the CEO and the Russian were murdered and the high up leadership was eliminated, and they are still taking orders from a crooked mid-level cop? That just seemed sour to me. I guess I could see it happening, being that Velcoro was a fugitive, but since when in this country do we allow private contractors to apprehend and kill fugitives?

One other thing, and I guess I just need to just suspend reality. I know that they were trying to keep a cork on all that had blown, but there were just too many things that had happened which would call for a federal investigation. Murdered DA, MASSIVE shootout, etc. The fact that this was kept out of the eyes and ears of the Feds is a bit of a reach..

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Why did they even need a tracking device on his car if they were going to follow him super obviously the whole time?

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As silly as this is, this can be explained.

The entire team of bad guys was waiting at the school because of course he was going to stop by one last time. Of course it would be recess. For his son's grade, at that time. Of course. Really, nothing awkward about a guy in a mullet using binoculars to watch school children on a playground. Nope.

Anyhow, they just happened to be camped out waiting for Ray to show up. But rather than just kill him, they wanted him to lead him to Ani because they needed both of them dead. But did they really have a tracking device with them? Shouldn't Ray have just driven to the fence, unrolled the window, and gotten out of dodge? Why would the most wanted man in town walk in a neighborhood freely exposed?

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He knew there was a tracking device on the car, yet got in the car knowing that was the end of him.

All it needed was a zoom in on his face and him crying out in agony to complete the ridiculousness... "OH NO, A TRACKING DEVICE ON MY CAR, THIS IS IT, ITS ALL OVER, I GIVE UP". Guy shoots his way through a massacre on the streets of Vinci, infiltrates not one but two heavily guarded homes, survives a shootout in the train station... but a tracking device on the car?

Game. Over.

So I'm not super familiar with California's various regions...how far north of LA does one need to drive to reach a redwood forest?

well redwood forest is northern california so that would be 10+ hours...but I'm assuming he probably drove up to Sequoia national forest or near that area. Pretty sure he was running through a forest of Sequoia's in his final scene.

That would be a more appropriate 3 hour drive or so. And would make sense considering he was hauling ass, he got to make the phone call to Ani, and who knows how long the recording was that he tried to record for his son as we only saw the tail end.

About the tracking device --

why didn't he at least try to pry it off with a knife?

If the knife doesn't work, why not shoot the damn thing with a gun until the light goes off?

If he could disable the device and they are still following him, just start throwing out cash until people crowd the street and make following you impossible.

If any of the above options aren't in your wheel house, why not take the money and call a cab or carjack someone?



Guy lived through a lot and was almost home free to be giving up that easily.

OR WHY DRIVE TO THE MIDDLE OF THE WOODS?!?! It's like the director was already set on having a forrest shootout and didn't care how the characters or story made that happen.

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About the tracking device --

why didn't he at least try to pry it off with a knife?

If the knife doesn't work, why not shoot the damn thing with a gun until the light goes off?

If he could disable the device and they are still following him, just start throwing out cash until people crowd the street and make following you impossible.

If any of the above options aren't in your wheel house, why not take the money and call a cab or carjack someone?



Guy lived through a lot and was almost home free to be giving up that easily.

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yea, i agree on Velcoro. i didn't like that part.

i thought VV's death was well done. he pretty much thought he was home free but had forgotten about the Mexicans. then, when they ask to take his suit, he says **** it because he knows he's not making it out of the desert. dude goes out fighting.

I guess Velcoro's only concern at that point was protecting Ani, preventing Burris et al. from finding her.

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Why did they even need a tracking device on his car if they were going to follow him super obviously the whole time?

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As silly as this is, this can be explained.

The entire team of bad guys was waiting at the school because of course he was going to stop by one last time. Of course it would be recess. For his son's grade, at that time. Of course. Really, nothing awkward about a guy in a mullet using binoculars to watch school children on a playground. Nope.

Anyhow, they just happened to be camped out waiting for Ray to show up. But rather than just kill him, they wanted him to lead him to Ani because they needed both of them dead. But did they really have a tracking device with them? Shouldn't Ray have just driven to the fence, unrolled the window, and gotten out of dodge? Why would the most wanted man in town walk in a neighborhood freely exposed?

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After reading this, I think this one actually can be explained. They weren't waiting for Ray at the school, they drove by there and saw his car. Then they planted the device and parked out of sight. They didn't hit Ray there because they wanted him to lead them to Bezz.

Not implausible that they were scouring the earth for Ray, and being fresh out of leads and ideas, kept going by places he might show - his home, his ex-wife's home, his son's school - hoping for a break before he disappeared. Ray gave them their break when he broke the cardinal rule for fugitives - don't go home or visit loved ones.

Maybe I wasn't paying as close attention as I should have, but why was the entire russian mob hanging out in a remote cabin in the woods?

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Maybe I wasn't paying as close attention as I should have, but why was the entire russian mob hanging out in a remote cabin in the woods?

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Because Osip was handing $12 million over to Catalast(also in the cabin), which had been planned and discussed for some time now, that it would be the final straw in the land purchases and obviously with $12mm, you need serious security.

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Maybe I wasn't paying as close attention as I should have, but why was the entire russian mob hanging out in a remote cabin in the woods?

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Because that's the best place for signing multi-million dollar deals to control the super important rail way corridor.

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So I'm not super familiar with California's various regions...how far north of LA does one need to drive to reach a redwood forest?

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Here is your answer. It's an interesting read

Wired: We Mapped True Detective's Wildly Implausible Road Trips

By the way, as much as I hated on the show, the ambush of the cash deal was actually fun to watch. Even VV's Schwarzenagerey "I guess I was wrong, it was today" line. I easily suspended disbelief and enjoyed the whole scene. I was honestly worried that Burris was gonna drive up and kill them from behind. But a great scene.

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By the way, as much as I hated on the show, the ambush of the cash deal was actually fun to watch. Even VV's Schwarzenagerey "I guess I was wrong, it was today" line. I easily suspended disbelief and enjoyed the whole scene. I was honestly worried that Burris was gonna drive up and kill them from behind. But a great scene.

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I actually did like that part, even though it felt rushed. (but i guess the whole episode felt rushed)

I thought the show was really good. It had issues, but still better than 99% of television out there today. Those of you complaining must be miserable virtually every time you turn on your TVs.

My only complaint on Ray's death was the voice recording not going through. After all that trouble getting that message out, there's no way he jumps out from behind that tree until he sees that go through complete.

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and my personal favorite on TV; Silicon Valley

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I thought the show was really good. It had issues, but still better than 99% of television out there today. Those of you complaining must be miserable virtually every time you turn on your TVs.

My only complaint on Ray's death was the voice recording not going through. After all that trouble getting that message out, there's no way he jumps out from behind that tree until he sees that go through complete.

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Criticizing something does not make one miserable. I liked season 1, I did not like season 2. People have different standards; your standard is obviously cable TV, mine is Season 1 True Detective.

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If your standard is season one of True Detective, you are going to be pretty disappointed most of the time

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But..its True Detective? By what other standard should I have used? And in all honestly, after the first 3 episodes, I re-calibrated that standard....as the season went on, it failed to meet even that.

If you use quality television as your barometer - - shows like Breaking Bad, TD season 1, Game of Thrones, Sopranos, etc.
then season 2 is woefully behind.

If you are comparing to a random CSI episode, then it is better than that - - but with some really painful flaws to absorb.




I think the complaints are raining down because
(1) season 1 was really good
(2) you see what was possible. The big budget. The big name actors. A cool set-up. It like saying don't compare The Phantom Menace to Star Wars/A New Hope.

Good summary of my feelings in this article.
http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/true-detective-season-2-episode-8-omega-station/


I think the reason a lot of us are complaining is because we have so many options to spend our limited time with on tv shows. For me, watching a season of a show is a commitment and I want to pick shows that are high quality. I can list a large amount of shows I would have watched before this season of True Detective. I started and continued watching this season because of last season. That's probably not fair but it's probably true of a large part of the audience.

Was it horrible television? No. Was it on par with the other shows I watch (The Americans, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, etc.)? Not even close.

Television has upped its game significantly in the last decade and when a show flops like this one it is very noticeable.

Haha, we posted the same thought at almost the same time.

I think some people weren't going to like this season no matter what, but I felt like with a better ending it would've been an enjoyable eight episodes.

I don't mind killing off the protagonist when there is an appropriate reason to do so. It has to further the story some how, or provide closure. This did neither.

It really would've made a lot more sense for the two protagonist to die at the end of the season last year than it does this year. At least last year the writer spent a lot of time talking about the futility of life and all that jazz. It would've fit the tone and the story to do so.

This year, it just seemed sadistic, or just killing them off for the effect rather than for the purpose of furthering the story.

The way this was written, you wanted at least one of VV or CF to make it out alive and happy. If somebody died, you wanted it to have some meaning. Instead, we get CF basically committing suicide and leaving behind two children, and we get VV's death in the desert, which I would've been okay with and thought appropriate if CF would've survived. VV made his bed, and the Mexicans were always a constant threat that you felt would pay-off at some point in the story.

At the very least, I wish they would've thrown us all a bone and shown newspaper clippings of the effect from publishing the story, such as the mayor and the dirty cop getting arrested. Instead, we don't even get that and are left with the feeling that the reporter may not even be able to get it published and/or do anything with it.

The paternity test was the only gratifying moment in the show and it was bitter sweet with the knowledge of Ray's death.

And what was up with Ray looking up into the trees at the end? What was that supposed to signify? Some acceptance of his death, I guess?