*** TRUE DETECTIVE Season 2 ***

253,355 Views | 1788 Replies | Last: 8 yr ago by TX scallywAG
exitone
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AG
For the complainers out there...

1) why are you focusing on the party music when you can still be commenting on the bar stool, guitar welding, sleepy girl playlist... that stuff is much worse

2) I think VV is holding his own in regards to the acting. I think the problem is people are having a hard time getting his motor boating monologue out of their head. I have the same problem trying to be taken seriously by my wife.
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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This thread is unbearable. Its pretty late in the season, but is it possible to make a separate thread, free of complaints? Because this is getting absolutely ridiculous.
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Zombie Jon Snow
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so it's supposed to be a sunshine pumping thread only?

so for GOT we need:

spoliers with no complaints
spoilers with complaints
no-spoilers with no complaints
no-spoilers with complaints

Got it!!! great idea.


I like to read all perspectives personally....i'm kinda down the middle on this season so far. Some of the complaints are certainly justified. I think it has gotten better as it has gone on. But if people want to hate on it, so be it. Doesn't bug me or change my perception of it. Neither do the ones who love it, Like I said I'm somewhere in between...certain scenes I have loved, CF is amazing, some of the dialogue is a bit too much, cinematography and overall performances don't quite compare to season 1 for me. But I value all discussion.
Elmo Lincoln
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quote:
This thread is unbearable. Its pretty late in the season, but is it possible to make a separate thread, free of complaints? Because this is getting absolutely ridiculous.

Yep...there's a "New Topic" button.

Honestly though, this is a thread on a message board about a TV show...a TV show that's current season has received poor reviews. What did you expect?
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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Complaints are welcome, however, it has gotten to the point where people are just circlejerking the same tired critique.

"VV sucks at acting"

"The plot is convoluted"

"There is too many characters"

"Nic P is trying too hard"

None of you all are saying anything new, and it's exhausting trying to look through all of your posts to find people discussing plot points.
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Zombie Jon Snow
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quote:
Complaints are welcome, however, it has gotten to the point where people are just circlejerking the same tired critique.

"VV sucks at acting"

"The plot is convoluted"

"There is too many characters"

"Nic P is trying too hard"

None of you all are saying anything new, and it's exhausting trying to look through all of your posts to find people discussing plot points.
i think thats also because people spent countless hours and posts dissecting the plot of season 1 only to discover none of it mattered, 90% was misdirection and it was the lawnmower dude. so they aren't willing to dissect this plot and the minute details as much.


Illustrious Potentate
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After reading this thread, I'm thankful I can watch a show without critiquing every detail.

Am I enjoying TD this season - sure it's pretty good.
Do I like it better than last season - nah, not really.
Do I give two ****s about analyzing the acting/music/writing/directing - absolutely not, I just watch it.
BassCowboy33
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One theory that I haven't seen floated here is the idea that Frank might be a player behind the '92 diamond heist. The investigating officer told Paul that they never had any suspects and we know that Frank used to be a vicious part of a seedy underworld before cleaning himself up. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that those two kids have figured out who killed their parents and are slowly exacting a revenge against him.
El Mero Guero
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I am a fan of the show but at times it does have pretty bad writing and dialogue. I was looking forward to the CF/VV confrontation, but came out of it completely underwhelmed with the dialogue and acting...even on CF's end, which is a first for this show. "I gotta go see about killing a man" or whatever he said was very cheesy and trying way too hard in terms of writing. He had a few other similarly bad lines imo, and there was one such phrase that they should have done a retake on because it came out in an awkward western accent, unintentionally I believe. His acting has been nails on this show and he made up for it later on with his interactions with his boy, wife, his "like a shoe" line, and the intense solid solo-party he threw.

The first 20 minutes or so of last night's episode was the first time I actually wanted to change the channel. I am not bummed that I stuck it out though as it was a fairly exciting ep overall, as over-the-top unrealistic was it was.

I kept wondering if there was a completely different writer or director for this one? A lot of it just seemed "off". Regardless, I am gonna finish the season off since I have invested this much time in it and think they can still stick the landing, but next season better be really good right off the bat or I am probably done with this show. I know, big loss.
Quinn
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Does the audience have any inclination as to how the diamonds relate to the rest of the story?
ATM9000
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This season feels like either the longest law and order episode of law and order had nudity, more blood, and cursing or a novella and I can't decide which.

Either way, it's been a humongous let down vs. last year and I can't justify in my head it actually being a good season anymore. It's really bad TV that if it weren't on HBO and had that credibility attached would be panned as being really bad TV.
El Mero Guero
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quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
It's not that I'm confused by the plot, it's that it's poorly written.

I mean, even ignoring that RM's character had to have known there was a high likelihood that she would run into one of the "higher ups" at that party -- did we suddenly choose to ignore that she was part of a horrifically deadly shootout 2 months prior? But put on a dress, do your hair and put up some makeup and some of the most important politicians and businessmen in the region don't recognize you?
I felt like she got dressed up because she needed to be hot to get an invite to the bus/house.....not as a disguise. That's evidenced by the fact that when she sees people she recognizes at the house, there's a bit of panic and she quickly turns to go to a different room.



Agree. She also didn't know what she was truly getting into with that party. She knew there'd be higher ups there, but who? It's also her only chance to get in there and figure out what's going on. The parties are so hidden and secretive that there's no other way.

And what exactly was accomplished? What was the plan? This is how it went down:

* Take an enormous risk dressing up what should be a recognizable hot cop and blowing the whole operation from jump street.

* Send her on a bus with a transponder but no real way to communicate.

* Seemingly minutes after she arrives and is in the house, the other two members go Spec-Ops and take out security detail and head towards the house.

* Said two members just happen to find themselves right outside a door/window where the two villains are discussing some of their illegal activities. Said villains then decide to lock up the incriminating documents in the desk drawer and head back to the party. (This isn't even cliche -- it's flat out standard mocking fare when it comes to bad guys in movies).

* A knife and a flip of the lock and into the mansion they go... the same mansion full of politicians and rich businessmen in an incredibly scandalous sex party, so scandalous that armed security detail was needed all over... but no alarm on the door, just needed a knife.

* Incriminating documents obtained, then off to enter another door into the mansion -- to do what? If they have no way of communicating with RM and they immediately went up the hill to the mansion to rescue her, then what was the point of sending her in in the first place!?

* They open the door just as RM and the missing girl were exiting that same door! What luck! Off we go!



That is poor writing any way you slice it.
This. I'll be honest, the clear shot of the sleazy mayor with W should have been a pretty big red flag in hindsight. In terms of lazy/cliche writing and SMH moments to come.
M.C. Swag
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I tried to give this season a fair shot but I think I'm done. WTF is going on? There's so many ambiguous characters and sub-plots, like....we have all this mess and only 2 episodes to clean it up? I'm not even sure if I understand what the important story is supposed to be? I would legitimately appreciate anyone's spark notes version of whatever it is we're supposed to be focusing on and the story to this point.

And who the **** was that kid that VV was trying to console?



PooDoo
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His muscle that was found dead at the construction sites kid. The aggie.
agmag90
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I would hate to see a movie with some you
Zombie Jon Snow
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I don't know why some of you seem to think because people are finding a lot of faults with this show that it means they don't enjoy anything. i can see the ciritcisms and agree with a lot of them. But it still has redeeming value to me and there are lots of shows/movies I enjoy and think are really good.

It's possible to not like this and still enjoy other things.
Objective Aggie
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quote:


And who the **** was that kid that VV was trying to console?





I believe that was son of Stan. The infamous Stan. Who apparently is a central figure in all of this but got 20 seconds of air time
suburban cowboy
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quote:
It's possible to not like this and still enjoy other things.


that's deep, man
Btron
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Thread save?

Btron
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quote:
One theory that I haven't seen floated here is the idea that Frank might be a player behind the '92 diamond heist. The investigating officer told Paul that they never had any suspects and we know that Frank used to be a vicious part of a seedy underworld before cleaning himself up. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that those two kids have figured out who killed their parents and are slowly exacting a revenge against him.
I like this a lot!
Both the eyes of Stan and Caspere could look like diamonds....
BassCowboy33
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quote:
Does the audience have any inclination as to how the diamonds relate to the rest of the story?


- Diamonds were part of a heist in '92 where the store owners were killed with two unnamed children witnessing the events. The Diamonds resurface in the possession of Caspere. Casper is killed. Ani and Paul find the diamonds in a safety deposit box and submit them as evidence. The diamonds then go missing from evidence. Paul follows up on them and discovers that the diamonds had been through a pawn shop. He also finds that Dixon had been asking about the diamonds at the same shop before the diamonds actually went missing. Why is a mystery to us as of right now. Through a series of photos, Ani finds that her missing person has actually come into contact with these diamonds, which is partially why she was so excited to find the woman alive at the end of the last episode.

That's what we know this far. My guess is that those diamonds are what will tie this all together.
M.C. Swag
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holy **** I'm so lost with this stuff.
bangobango
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quote:
It's not that I'm confused by the plot, it's that it's poorly written.

I mean, even ignoring that RM's character had to have known there was a high likelihood that she would run into one of the "higher ups" at that party -- did we suddenly choose to ignore that she was part of a horrifically deadly shootout 2 months prior? But put on a dress, do your hair and put up some makeup and some of the most important politicians and businessmen in the region don't recognize you?
I don't think this is the big plot hole you think it is. It's not like she sees these people every single day. To act like anybody that has ever come into contact with her, no matter how briefly, would instantly recognize her in that setting and in that outfit is a little unrealistic, in my opinion.
HtownAg92
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quote:
One theory that I haven't seen floated here is the idea that Frank might be a player behind the '92 diamond heist. The investigating officer told Paul that they never had any suspects and we know that Frank used to be a vicious part of a seedy underworld before cleaning himself up. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that those two kids have figured out who killed their parents and are slowly exacting a revenge against him.
You just blew my mind.

MW03
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How about we reset, then. Let's figure out where we are with 2 episodes left.

Frank Semyon (VV) was a local hood that rose up to run a criminal enterprise out of Vinci, CA. In a bid to go legitimate, he sold off his clubs and side businesses moving drugs and set up a casino of sorts. After saving up $5MM, he put that money into an investment with a local politician named Ben Caspere to buy up development in a travel corridor going through Vinici as part of a federal plan to put a high speed rail into California. Semyon and Caspere were pitching a group of investors to join them, and the primary candidate being Opulent Russian dude.

Caspere was supposed to complete the deal with the land company, Catalyst. Specifically, Caspere was supposed to be fronting the $10MM buy in along with Semyon; however, the buy in was actually only $7MM unbeknownst to Semyon.

Apparently, Caspere was also a freak in the sack. He visited these freaky sex parties with other politicians and businessmen. Presumably, some of those guys were also with Catalyst or were otherwise in on the Catalyst deal. Caspere recorded these dudes doing freaky sex things with the intent of blackmailing them. Somehow Caspere got himself killed, and because he never paid Catalyst (or did he?) Semyon's $5MM is in the wind.

Woodrugh, the unhinged self-hating gay warrior poet highway cop, finds Caspere's dead body. He hooks up with straight-laced county cop with serious daddy/men issues Bezzerides to investigate Caspere's murder. Their bosses have raging clues to take down the Vinci VIPs, who are apparently turbo corrupt. The problem: Vinci puts the dirty drunk coked out murder detective Velcoro on the case to be their inside man with the job of shutting this investigation down without officially dirtying the Vinci VIPs.

Velcoro, is also working for Semyon. And now that Caspere is dead, he tasks Velcoro with finding Caspere's killer in hopes of finding his missing millions. This investigation gets Velcoro shotgunned by Birdman after discovering Caspere's secret cash of recording equipment. Luckily for Semyon, Catalyst will give him his investment properties gratis if he can track down the hard drive Birdman took and keep their freaky sex secrets in the dark.

A series of uber convenient tips leads the trio of cops to a gang banger that supposedly fenced stolen goods from Caspere's house. After a crazy shootout, the gang banger is dead, and Caspere's murder is wrapped. Our trio of investigators and Semyon don't buy it, and luckily through a series of unfortunate events they are all freed up from their obligations to continue their investigations.

These sex parties Caspere was in involved with had these super high-end hookers that are run clandestinely by Semyon's red-headed right-hand man. Apparently, these girls are hooked up by creepy Nip/Tuck doc that also knew Caspere, as well as Bezzerides dad and the mayor of Vinci. After a beating, Nip/Tuck keys the team in on where these sex parties are going down.

Bezzerides gets into the party to do a little recon. While there, she finds a missing girl she had been on the hunt for since the beginning of the show. Rather than get the intel, she slap chops a dude and makes a break for it with the missing girl. Luckily for she, she runs right into Woodrugh, who was breaking in try and find Bezzerides and get eyes on her? Don't worry about that.

The important thing is that it doesn't matter that Bezzerides flipped out, because while Woodrugh was Metal Gear Solid'ing the compound looking for her, he happened to overhear Opulent Russian (remember him from bullet point one!) talking to Catalyst dill about the fact that his investment was a lot more substantial than Caspere's and not to worry. Woodrugh total Silent Snaked in the there and snagged those contracts Opulent Russian and Catalyst dill signed before heading back to the Orgy Fest 2015. Those documents are covered in signatures, presumably of all the important people involved in the deal. Maybe some of those people will know who killed Caspere.

Semyon, working his own investigation, goes through a cartel to get access to gang banger's girl friend. She tells Semyon that someone paid her to fence Caspere's goods. That guy might have been a cop.

Woodrugh, working a straight investigation (get it!?!) has also found out that a cop was inquiring about Caspere's blue diamonds before their existence was known. Those diamonds were stolen by someone back in 1992 during the LA Riots.

-------------------

SO:

Did someone kill Caspere because they knew that he was blackmailing the Vinci VIPs and Catalyst big dogs?

Or did someone kill Caspere to rob him for the diamonds because he had been trying to fence them to generate the $2MM needed to get his portion of the Semyon/Caspere Catalyst cash?

Or did someone kill Caspere to get him and Semyon out of the way so they could take advantage of the land deal?

Opulent Russian wants to move Caspere and Semyon out to take advantage of the Caspere's deal. Catalyst and the Vinci VIPs agree because they know Caspere is a blackmailing SOB, and his death eliminates the risk of exposure. The murder also gets them the opportunity to rob Caspere of $5MM in cash and another $2.5MM in blue diamonds Semyon's red-headed right-hand man knows the players through the sex parties, and he kills off Semyon's muscle in what's basically a power move to connect himself with the new power players.

(EDIT: FORMATTING)
Bunk Moreland
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Opulent Russian wants to move Caspere and Semyon out to take advantage of the Caspere's deal. Catalyst and the Vinci VIPs agree because they know Caspere is a blackmailing SOB, and his death eliminates the risk of exposure. The murder also gets them the opportunity to rob Caspere of $5MM in cash and another $2.5MM in blue diamonds Semyon's red-headed right-hand man knows the players through the sex parties, and he kills off Semyon's muscle in what's basically a power move to connect himself with the new power players.


I'm pretty much right there with you on this.. And I still happen to believe that the red-head is also the guy who raped Velcoro's wife. My guess is Semyon doesn't know, and Stan did. Stan was killed by red head dude or the kill was ordered by him, and the russians took Stan out for the red-head.

Red-head has been using his connections with Semyon to basically run his own programs from under him with the Rooskie and thus mixing it up with the other big wigs.

Once that knowledge gets passed to Semyon(especially when he sees that corporate guy and russian signatures (All over it!), then Semyon goes hardcore as well.
Sex Panther
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AG
Why is everyone so wrapped up in "who the hell is Stan?!" and VV going and visiting the wife and kid? Stan isn't important, his kid isn't important... what's important was what Vince said:

"Sometimes a thing happens, splits your life. There's a before and after ... and if you use the bad thing right, it makes you better. Stronger."

That's Semyon talking to himself... That's him talking about everyone else on the show. If you want to call it more bad dialogue, or pretentious fluff, whatever... but that speech was the reason for dead Stan and his kid being in the show.


Count me in the camp that thought it was great and I enjoyed the much maligned VV's delivery of it.
Sex Panther
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lol, great recap as always MW, and loved the squid ink analogy earlier as well...



quote:
SO:

Did someone kill Caspere because they knew that he was blackmailing the Vinci VIPs and Catalyst big dogs?

Or did someone kill Caspere to rob him for the diamonds because he had been trying to fence them to generate the $2MM needed to get his portion of the Semyon/Caspere Catalyst cash?

Or did someone kill Caspere to get him and Semyon out of the way so they could take advantage of the land deal?



Also, it's probably worth noting to remember, Caspere's body was placed somewhere to be found intentionally. Whoever's behind this wanted an investigation for whatever reason. Something tells me the point was for Gay Tim Riggins to find it, although that seems like a huge stretch.
Al Bula
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When the diamonds were said to be stolen in the Rodney King riots of 1992, this was all I could think about.



BassCowboy33
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quote:
Why is everyone so wrapped up in "who the hell is Stan?!" and VV going and visiting the wife and kid? Stan isn't important, his kid isn't important... what's important was what Vince said:

"Sometimes a thing happens, splits your life. There's a before and after ... and if you use the bad thing right, it makes you better. Stronger."

That's Semyon talking to himself... That's him talking about everyone else on the show. If you want to call it more bad dialogue, or pretentious fluff, whatever... but that speech was the reason for dead Stan and his kid being in the show.


Count me in the camp that thought it was great and I enjoyed the much maligned VV's delivery of it.
water turkey
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Maybe late to the conversation but I just read that Rick Springfield plays Dr. Pitlor! That is crazy. I thought he sounded like Dylan McDermott.
mhayden
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quote:
quote:
It's not that I'm confused by the plot, it's that it's poorly written.

I mean, even ignoring that RM's character had to have known there was a high likelihood that she would run into one of the "higher ups" at that party -- did we suddenly choose to ignore that she was part of a horrifically deadly shootout 2 months prior? But put on a dress, do your hair and put up some makeup and some of the most important politicians and businessmen in the region don't recognize you?
I don't think this is the big plot hole you think it is. It's not like she sees these people every single day. To act like anybody that has ever come into contact with her, no matter how briefly, would instantly recognize her in that setting and in that outfit is a little unrealistic, in my opinion.

Anybody? No.

But not only was this the "Vinci Massacre", it also closed the book on the high profile Caspere case.

To think that one of lone 3 that survived the "massacre" -- notably the attractive blonde -- is somehow going to go un-noticed by a bunch of Vinci people at a Vinci party that most knew was directly related to Caspere?

Yeah, someone's gonna notice.

Not to mention she's already been investigating major parts of this case and it's been shown that at least one point in time she was tailed (car set on fire outside suspect's house).

It's an enormous plothole, but one you could overlook if the rest of the entire mansion scene wasn't so ludicrous.
Jim01
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AG
I haven't read this thread because I don't want to ruin any potential spoilers or like engaging in theories, BUT...

I just recongnized Rick Springfeld these past two episodes.

I am really enjoying this but the last 10 minutes of last night felt weird to me. The entire Colin/Taylor sneak to the party seemed like a cheesy movie with the weird music they picked, and the then the "oh look, we just happen to stop at this door where two major bad guys are talking about their plans". Then capped off with the 70s guitar as they drive off with the full moon. Just felt a little misplayed. Needed a better score and adjusted tone to me.
Complete Idiot
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I like the show, even with its flaws, and look forward to the concluding installments.

Since this is mostly a complaint thread now, and I haven't seen anyone else mention it, I thought the flashback pedophile from the 70's was comical in his cliched-ness.

I don't really have any gut feeling for who did what - similar to the first season he's introduced so many characters and side stories that the enjoyment of the show is talking about the show.
bangobango
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AG
So, my biggest gripe has been too many characters, and to that end, I think Woodrugh is the worst offender and his character should've been cut.

I keep trying to figure our what he brings to the table. The only way I can see them justifying his character's inclusion is if in the end somebody blackmails him with the gay stuff into betraying the others.

I wonder if this show would've been better just having CF and VV's characters and cutting the rest.

That being said, I'm enjoying it. I didn't really buy into all the "LOST" type analysis that went into the first season (especially after NP said it wasn't anything like that) and instead enjoyed the characters and their arc, so while I don't think this season is as good as the first one, I am not nearly as let-down as some of you.

I am trying to identify some type of theme in this one. In the first one, it seemed to be that even heavily flawed characters could still do some good. That the light was winning, one tiny point of light at a time.

This one I feel has something to do with family, specifically children and their fathers, but I am having a hard time finding what that unifying thought to all of it is. You have Rachel and her daddy issues, CF and his son, VV trying to decide whether to have a child or not, his speech to the dead guy's son, and his own daddy issues, and Woodrugh's son on the way. I guess that could justify Woodrugh's inclusion if they tie in his child and his fatherhood with the rest of it.

Anyways, just scatter shooting and wondering whatever happened to True Detective tradition of showing us some amazing boobs. Been real disappointed on the boobage this season. Probably my biggest gripe.

And since this is a show of ******* and orphan children, I suspect that the main players are the two orphans from the 1992 robbery, as others have already said, and they are probably being raised by the mayor, since everybody else seems to be raised by somebody who is not their dad.
 
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