So is it believed she was shot IN the garage?
Making a Murder - Netflix Original Series
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Last: 1 yr ago by Pluralizes Everythings
quote:
So is it believed she was shot IN the garage?
Depends on which trial.
Steves trial:
Kratz argues she was shot in head in garage and not murdered or even stabbed in trailer. Kratz says "IN" garage.
Brendan's trial:
Kratz argues she was killed in trailer based on Brendans confession. They couldnt quite coerce an exact match, but hey, they were close!
No, above is not a joke.
quote:quote:
So is it believed she was shot IN the garage?
Depends on which trial.
Steves trial:
Kratz argues she was shot in head in garage and not murdered or even stabbed in trailer. Kratz says "IN" garage.
Brendan's trial:
Kratz argues she was killed in trailer based on Brendans confession. They couldnt quite coerce an exact match, but hey, they were close!
No, above is not a joke.
That's what I thought. So then, they they ever find a single spot in the concrete of said garage where the bullet would have exited? Like a bullet hole. I'm assuming 1, or all 11 would have passed through.
quote:Exact words were said in our living room too!
After watching this, my wife and I concluded that we should never step foot in the state of Wisconsin. Have to be concerned about the insular culture up there. What an embarrassment. There are third world countries safer to live in.
I believe I read that the defense says he was under the hood to disconnect the battery. Another "ok, but why?"
Also think I read that Brendan said at one point SA was under the hood. For all we know that was in response to this from the investigators: "Brendan, what did SA lift up in the front of the car. He lifted something up to see the engine. What was it?"
Also think I read that Brendan said at one point SA was under the hood. For all we know that was in response to this from the investigators: "Brendan, what did SA lift up in the front of the car. He lifted something up to see the engine. What was it?"
The rape and throat slicing happened in trailer, but no DNA to be found.
The key at one point the was all that mattered, but then it didnt even matter if was planted:
When you are a bigshot "prize DA with $350K house and a 6 figure career", you make the rules:
quote:
"The defense argues there was no blood in the trailer, but since Teresa wasnt killled in the trailer, there shouldn't be ....
The key at one point the was all that mattered, but then it didnt even matter if was planted:
When you are a bigshot "prize DA with $350K house and a 6 figure career", you make the rules:
quote:
That's what I thought. So then, they they ever find a single spot in the concrete of said garage where the bullet would have exited? Like a bullet hole. I'm assuming 1, or all 11 would have passed through.
NO. By all accounts on both sides, there was no other Teresa DNA in the garage, other than the bullet fragment found on 03/01/06 AFTER it was discovered she was shot in head.
They even jack hammered cracks in cement floor hoping to find seepage that could not have been cleaned....still nothing else ever found.
But honestly, I wouldn't put it past the ballistics lady to plant the DNA as there was obviously cross contamination with Teresa's DNA and her DNA. Did it come from her mouth while she was talking from a distance like she says? or did it come from up close while she was doing something else you shouldnt do?
Experts say that cross contamination like that rarely happens in that scientific community, and even rarer for it to be admissible....but I would guess doing something you shouldnt do in that environment is also very rare.
On my tablet, so pardon my brevity...
I'm thoroughly convinced the sheriff department planted evidence and the county was also in collusion. Mind blowing
I'm thoroughly convinced the sheriff department planted evidence and the county was also in collusion. Mind blowing
quote:Let's take it one by one.
Looked back through three pages and didn't see this posted yet. As much as I want to kick him in the face, Ken Kratz just dropped the mic...
http://www.thewrap.com/making-a-murderer-prosecutor-ken-kratz-steven-avery-9-reasons-guilty/
quote:
1. Avery's past incident with a cat was not "goofing around". He soaked his cat in gasoline or oil, and put it on a fire to watch it suffer.
Previous unrelated bad acts are not proof that someone committed murder two decades later. He's a terrible person for doing that, but it doesn't mean he committed this murder.
quote:He had used her several times before. Maybe she did a much better job than anyone else that took pics for AT. Better pics helps cars sell quicker.
2. Avery targeted Teresa. On Oct 31 (8:12 am) he called AutoTrader magazine and asked them to send "that same girl who was here last time." On Oct 10, Teresa had been to the Avery property when Steve answered the door just wearing a towel. She said she would not go back because she was scared of him (obviously). Avery used a fake name and fake # (his sister's) giving those to the AutoTrader receptionist, to trick Teresa into coming.
I don't believe the statement that she said she would not go back because she was scared of him, because she obviously did choose to go back.
The last part is dumb. He used his sister's number and name because that is who owned the car and was selling the car. It was a small town and Teresa had been there before. Using a fake name and then telling her to take pics at Avery's junkyard isn't going to fool anyone.
quote:
3. Teresa's phone, camera and PDA were found 20 ft from Avery's door, burned in his barrel. Why did the documentary not tell the viewers the contents of her purse were in his burn barrel, just north of the front door of his trailer?
Easily planted evidence. Avery was not the only person that had access to that burn barrel.
quote:
4. While in prison, Avery told another inmate of his intent to build a "torture chamber" so he could rape, torture and kill young women when he was released. He even drew a diagram. Another inmate was told by Avery that the way to get rid of a body is to "burn it"heat destroys DNA.
Hearsay. Big talk in jail does not mean he is going to follow through with it. I'm sure lots of people say lots of crazy things in jail.
quote:Tires being burned with the body is not evidence that Avery committed murder.
5. The victim's bones in the firepit were "intertwined" with the steel belts, left over from the car tires Avery threw on the fire to burn, as described by Dassey. That WAS where her bones were burned! Suggesting that some human bones found elsewhere (never identified as Teresa's) were from this murder was NEVER established.
quote:Again, he was not the only person that had access to that firepit.
6. Also found in the fire pit was Teresa's tooth (ID'd through dental records), a rivet from the "Daisy Fuentes" jeans she was wearing that day, and the tools used by Avery to chop up her bones during the fire.
quote:Phone Records
7. Phone records show 3 calls from Avery to Teresa's cell phone on Oct 31. One at 2:24, and one at 2:35both calls Avery uses the *67 feature so Teresa doesn't know it himboth placed before she arrives. Then one last call at 4:35 pm, without the *67 feature. Avery first believes he can simply say she never showed up (his original defense), so tries to establish the alibi call after she's already been there, hence the 4:35 call. She will never answer of course, so he doesn't need the *67 feature for that last call.
Avery's attorney said he regularly used *67 to protect his privacy. It wasn't just about her. I don't know a way to verify that.
quote:They have the car in custody for about a month before they discover that DNA evidence. They had Avery in custody plus full reign of his home and garage. When searching his trailer one of the dozen times or so they did, it would be easy to put a undershirt or socks from his hamper in a ziplock bag, and then rub it on the car.
8. Avery's DNA (not blood) was on the victim's hood latch (under her hood in her hidden SUV). The SUV was at the crime lab since 11/5how did his DNA get under the hood if Avery never touched her car? Do the cops have a vial of Avery's sweat to "plant" under the hood?
quote:How did they get a bullet? He was a redneck and probably shot bottles or raccoons or dogs or squirrels or rabbits or whatever. Need more evidence? Go search for a used round around his property, then swipe on some trace DNA from her toothbrush. Done.
9. Ballistics said the bullet found in the garage was fired by Avery's rifle, which was in a police evidence locker since 11/6if the cops planted the bullet, how did they get one fired from HIS gun? This rifle, hanging over Aver's bed, is the source of the bullet found in the garage, with Teresa's DNA on it. The bullet had to be fired BEFORE 11/5did the cops borrow his gun, fire a bullet, recover the bullet before planting the SUV, then hang on to the bullet for 4 months in case they need to plant it 4 months later???
quote:The problem is, there is no way to know how much of that is true. Kratz has already proven himself a liar. For example, if the police planted blood inside the Rav-4, then why not under the hood? If they planted a key in his house then why not a pda in the barrel? It's also pretty easy to get jailhouse witnesses since the police have all those guy by the balls. That testimony could have been bought with a few jailhouse privileges.
Looked back through three pages and didn't see this posted yet. As much as I want to kick him in the face, Ken Kratz just dropped the mic...
http://www.thewrap.com/making-a-murderer-prosecutor-ken-kratz-steven-avery-9-reasons-guilty/
BennyBlancoFromTheBright
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AG
How many of you have signed that petition to have almighty Obama pardon?
Just want to get a head count for the next innocent victim bedtime stories (documentary, blog, podcast, rally).
Just want to get a head count for the next innocent victim bedtime stories (documentary, blog, podcast, rally).
quote:
How many of you have signed that petition to have almighty Obama pardon?
Just want to get a head count for the next innocent victim bedtime stories (documentary, blog, podcast, rally).
I have not signed and don't intend to. The documentary makes a compelling story, but it is only one side. Besides, presidential pardons are usually reserved for friends and donors .
Could not stop watching this thing. Really compelling.
I don't think I could sign the petition either. He deserves a new trial, not to be pardoned completely.
I can't get passed the fact that they said she was killed in the garage, but there was no evidence whatsoever (besides the bullet) that it occurred in the garage. If he went super CSI before he killed her, draped the entire thing in drop cloth and killed her without getting a drop anywhere but on those tarps/cloths....why not put the car somewhere other than ON YOUR FREAKING LOT.
The key thing baffles me as well. No way that is not found the first three times they toss the room. And who it is found by is just too coincidental.
I could not believe when they convicted the kid. I don't see how any jury could side with those cops twisting an obviously mentally challenged kid into the confession they wanted.
I don't think I could sign the petition either. He deserves a new trial, not to be pardoned completely.
I can't get passed the fact that they said she was killed in the garage, but there was no evidence whatsoever (besides the bullet) that it occurred in the garage. If he went super CSI before he killed her, draped the entire thing in drop cloth and killed her without getting a drop anywhere but on those tarps/cloths....why not put the car somewhere other than ON YOUR FREAKING LOT.
The key thing baffles me as well. No way that is not found the first three times they toss the room. And who it is found by is just too coincidental.
I could not believe when they convicted the kid. I don't see how any jury could side with those cops twisting an obviously mentally challenged kid into the confession they wanted.
I think it's pretty obvious the key and the bulllet were planted. The sign in sheets where Lenk signs in a day before they are found are very convincing. He's obviously dirty.
The biggest thing I can't get by is how or why the judge did not allow the defense to point to other people that could have committed the crime. I'm not a criminal attorney, but has anyone ever heard of this happening before? If so, why would a judge make this ruling? To me, that's a key component to any defense...being able to point to someone else who did do it or could have done it. I'm dumbfounded as to why a judge would do this and/or how it's legal for a judge to do this.
Here's my issue. I still think Steven Avery did it, but because I am convinced this was a shoddy police job where they wanted Avery from the beginning and clearly planted evidence in his favor, it makes you take anything someone like Kratz says with a huge grain of salt.
Again, if you believe the police wanted Avery from the beginning and were willing to plant evidence, at that point, almost anything can be explained away by the defense.
Again, if you believe the police wanted Avery from the beginning and were willing to plant evidence, at that point, almost anything can be explained away by the defense.
I would sign the one for Brandon, not SA.
Petitioning Obama about a court case is as effective as retweeting.
Especially cases that aren't even federal.
By saying the bones were, "intertwined with the tires", I believe he is saying the burn pit was the original burn site.
Were the small amount of bones found in the barrel and the other site confirmed to be Theresa's? I read somewhere they weren't. If the backyard burn pit was the burn site, why was anything moved? It seems more logical they were dumped out of the barrel and a few were left unknowingly in the barrel. If the other bones weren't Theresa's, that's a huge change of the story than what the documentary was claiming.
If they hadn't completely bungled the collection of the bones, for sinister reasons or just plain stupidity, whether or not it was the original burn site should have been easy to figure out.
Were the small amount of bones found in the barrel and the other site confirmed to be Theresa's? I read somewhere they weren't. If the backyard burn pit was the burn site, why was anything moved? It seems more logical they were dumped out of the barrel and a few were left unknowingly in the barrel. If the other bones weren't Theresa's, that's a huge change of the story than what the documentary was claiming.
If they hadn't completely bungled the collection of the bones, for sinister reasons or just plain stupidity, whether or not it was the original burn site should have been easy to figure out.
Here's my theory for the moment:
Avery killed her, drove her body in her own car to the quarry. Tried to burn her once, but it didn't do the job (gotta be damn hot to consume a corpse). So he put her in the burn barrel, drove it to his property in his truck, dumped her in the fire pit, and burned her again for several more hours. Cops found her car (which is why her plates were called in early), knew Avery did it, but didn't think they had the evidence to prove it (they didn't know about the bones in the burn pit yet and had to act fast.) So they towed her car to his property in the middle of the night. They realized later that some would claim that somebody else parked her car on Avery's lot, they went in and planted the key in his house. Dassey probably saw something in the fire, which is why he said he saw "toes". The cops, convinced Avery was guilty, interrogated Dassey for more details. But Dassey was making crap up because he's dumber than a box of rocks. Crooked cops plant more evidence to satisfy the new Dassey revelations, and honest cops are duped by it because their subconscious (correctly) knows that Avery did it.
The police (both honest and corrupt) knew they had to prove guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt this time due to Avery's false arrest in 1985. They hated the guy, and needed to finally get him once and for all. The honest cops were duped by the couple corrupt ones. Kratz knows the evidence doesn't add up, but didn't give a crap what the truth was. He was holding onto anything that would give him guilty verdicts.
Avery killed her, drove her body in her own car to the quarry. Tried to burn her once, but it didn't do the job (gotta be damn hot to consume a corpse). So he put her in the burn barrel, drove it to his property in his truck, dumped her in the fire pit, and burned her again for several more hours. Cops found her car (which is why her plates were called in early), knew Avery did it, but didn't think they had the evidence to prove it (they didn't know about the bones in the burn pit yet and had to act fast.) So they towed her car to his property in the middle of the night. They realized later that some would claim that somebody else parked her car on Avery's lot, they went in and planted the key in his house. Dassey probably saw something in the fire, which is why he said he saw "toes". The cops, convinced Avery was guilty, interrogated Dassey for more details. But Dassey was making crap up because he's dumber than a box of rocks. Crooked cops plant more evidence to satisfy the new Dassey revelations, and honest cops are duped by it because their subconscious (correctly) knows that Avery did it.
The police (both honest and corrupt) knew they had to prove guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt this time due to Avery's false arrest in 1985. They hated the guy, and needed to finally get him once and for all. The honest cops were duped by the couple corrupt ones. Kratz knows the evidence doesn't add up, but didn't give a crap what the truth was. He was holding onto anything that would give him guilty verdicts.
One thing I just thought of. Doesn't burning a human smell really bad? I wonder why nobody smelled anything. I'm not an expert on burning human bodies, but perhaps my theory on two burnings answer that? Perhaps it smells bad early on, but the second burning doesn't smell much anymore?
quote:
One thing I just thought of. Doesn't burning a human smell really bad? I wonder why nobody smelled anything. I'm not an expert on burning human bodies, but perhaps my theory on two burnings answer that? Perhaps it smells bad early on, but the second burning doesn't smell much anymore?
I have a feeling that the Avery's burn a lot of stuff that you're probably not supposed to burn. And I'd bet a lot of that stuff smells really bad.
I agree with a decent portion of your theory. I think Brendan had more to do with it though. I also think the kill shot was likely in the garage and he helped Steven clean it up with bleach.
Burning flesh stinks to high heaven. So does burning tires. There were comments about tire belts being in the ash pile. How they burned tires without the neighbors complaining is surprising.
quote:One thing that doesn't jive with that, is the fact that it would be damn hard to clean microscopic blood splatter off of all that crap he had stored in the garage.quote:
One thing I just thought of. Doesn't burning a human smell really bad? I wonder why nobody smelled anything. I'm not an expert on burning human bodies, but perhaps my theory on two burnings answer that? Perhaps it smells bad early on, but the second burning doesn't smell much anymore?
I have a feeling that the Avery's burn a lot of stuff that you're probably not supposed to burn. And I'd bet a lot of that stuff smells really bad.
I agree with a decent portion of your theory. I think Brendan had more to do with it though. I also think the kill shot was likely in the garage and he helped Steven clean it up with bleach.
Maybe you are right on Brandan's involvement. Maybe he helped Avery dump the body from the barrel into the burn pit or something like that.
aTmAg sounds about right if it wasn't a total frame job.
I don't believe the kid was involved much if any. Being broke and dumb isn't a crime.
I don't believe the kid was involved much if any. Being broke and dumb isn't a crime.
quote:quote:One thing that doesn't jive with that, is the fact that it would be damn hard to clean microscopic blood splatter off of all that crap he had stored in the garage.quote:
One thing I just thought of. Doesn't burning a human smell really bad? I wonder why nobody smelled anything. I'm not an expert on burning human bodies, but perhaps my theory on two burnings answer that? Perhaps it smells bad early on, but the second burning doesn't smell much anymore?
I have a feeling that the Avery's burn a lot of stuff that you're probably not supposed to burn. And I'd bet a lot of that stuff smells really bad.
I agree with a decent portion of your theory. I think Brendan had more to do with it though. I also think the kill shot was likely in the garage and he helped Steven clean it up with bleach.
Maybe you are right on Brandan's involvement. Maybe he helped Avery dump the body from the barrel into the burn pit or something like that.
Yeah, but I think the confession also talks about burning sheets and more. I think Steve raped her on a mattress, maybe not the one in his room, but even if it was, he raped her on that and they burned the mattress as well.
I need to read Brendan's full confession transcript that I posted earlier on the thread. I skimmed it but haven't really dug into it hard. I think poor Brendan is too stupid to know what he was doing, but I think he most likely had a role in it.
quote:There's something about Brendan's comments about cleaning up the garage that ring true with me, but I just have a really hard time believing that they got everything, including down in the cracks of the concrete and every piece of junk in that cluttered space.
I agree with a decent portion of your theory. I think Brendan had more to do with it though. I also think the kill shot was likely in the garage and he helped Steven clean it up with bleach.
I wonder what made them fear for their safety...believing that the cops planted the evidence?
Possibly related to the father of a county deputy who served on the jury?
quote:The police tore up the concrete looking for blood evidence that soaked through the concrete that couldn't have been cleaned. Found nothing.quote:There's something about Brendan's comments about cleaning up the garage that ring true with me, but I just have a really hard time believing that they got everything, including down in the cracks of the concrete and every piece of junk in that cluttered space.
I agree with a decent portion of your theory. I think Brendan had more to do with it though. I also think the kill shot was likely in the garage and he helped Steven clean it up with bleach.
quote:A juror was a father of a county sheriff's deputy.
I wonder what made them fear for their safety...believing that the cops planted the evidence?
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