Making a Murder - Netflix Original Series

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Bunk Moreland
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 11:23p, 1/2/16
quote:
Calling to request her definitely looks bad. And interesting they never mention Brendan's bleach stained pants.


Also, it sucks when you read the transcript of the call between Brendan and his mom where she's saying "did you do it?!" or whatever was basically hogwash in how they presented it to the doc.

This was posted on page 8

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3ytjy8/does_anyone_else_think_the_documentary_film/cygttqi
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Brian Earl Spilner
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11:26p, 1/2/16
AG
I guess my biggest thing is - he is careful enough to wipe down the entire garage floor with bleach, doesn't leave any fingerprints in the RAV4, yet is careless enough to leave the car intact when he has a crusher at his disposal?
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Bunk Moreland
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 11:41p, 1/2/16
Im with you. A lot of stuff doest add up. But the most logical conclusion is still that he did it.

It's more logical to think he did it and due to his low iq he cleaned up the crime scene best he could but was too stupid to realize he should crush the car than it is to think police somehow towed it on property with no one knowing after they either killed her or stumbled across a crime scene and decided to pin it on him.

Maybe his dumbass thought he had a huge property and he could easily stash it. Or maybe he thought "can't crush the car, it'd be too obvious" or maybe he thought police wouldn't be able to search his property, etc.

I believe he used *67 twice to call her, then called her later in the afternoon without *67 after she would have left his property. If he had her phone, he answers it to establish a call, and in his mind he's creating a time line to establish to police that she hd left already and he had nothing to do with it.

Who knows. I don't like thinking he did it, but it's still the most logical conclusion
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thats what I do
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 11:41p, 1/2/16
AG
No blood on the mattress, in the bedroom at all, two separate stories in each trial...how and why?
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Ogre09
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In reply to M.C. Swag • 11:47p, 1/2/16
AG
quote:
Setting Brendan Dassey aside, do y'all honestly believe that 2 cops (with no prior criminal history), lay in wait for a random woman to appear on the Avery residence, take her/kill her/burn her body/bury it at the Avery's, AND plant the necessary evidence without anyone finding out?

There's some weird coincidences, but to plant the evidence, they would have to have committed the crime themselves. That's very very far fetched. (More far fetched IMO than Steve Avery having committed the crime himself)


I think the cops probably planted one or more pieces of evidence. I think they thought Steven Avery did it, and wanted to help ensure a conviction.

Car key found by Lenk after multiple searches of trailer, with only Avery's DNA and not Teresa's: suspicious.

Avery's blood found in car, old blood vial package cut open and neesle mark in stopper: suspicious.

I don't think the cops killed her, or thought anyone else was a likely suspect. I don't think they did anything with the body and bones to frame him. I doubt they moved the car.
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Ogre09
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 11:50p, 1/2/16
AG
quote:
I guess my biggest thing is - he is careful enough to wipe down the entire garage floor with bleach, doesn't leave any fingerprints in the RAV4, yet is careless enough to leave the car intact when he has a crusher at his disposal?


I think he thought he had it hidden pretty well, and was still working out a way to dispose of it.
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Ogre09
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In reply to thats what I do • 11:51p, 1/2/16
AG
I doubt any blood was spilled in the bedroom. It's also possible he got rid of the old bed and mattress and replaced with used.
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In reply to Ogre09 • 11:52p, 1/2/16
AG
Brendan said they slit her throat on the bed and beat her there.
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Ogre09
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 11:54p, 1/2/16
AG
quote:
But how do they explain the lack of any of her blood or DNA on the entire property?

The bullet (I believe it was just the casing, right?) alone proves nothing.


They found an actual fired bullet on/in garage concrete floor.
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Ogre09
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In reply to thats what I do • 11:55p, 1/2/16
AG
quote:
Brendan said they slit her throat on the bed and beat her there.


He's borderline re-tarded and most of what he said was fabricated.
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thats what I do
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In reply to Ogre09 • 11:58p, 1/2/16
AG
If that's the case, then how can we believe the prosecution and its two differing versions of events?

You don't have to answer that. I sense that you believe the prosecution as they are stating it. I don't want to waste your time going back through it all.
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Joan Wilder
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12:00a, 1/3/16
AG
We still have a few episodes to go, but I am getting frustrated at not seeing the state's case. What is their theory of the crime they're presenting at trial? Brendan's allegations? How can they without his testimony or any physical evidence? I wish the show was showing a little more of their case.

The ex boyfriend hacking her Verizon account is sticking with me as very sketchy.
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Bunk Moreland
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In reply to Ogre09 • 12:02a, 1/3/16
quote:
I doubt any blood was spilled in the bedroom. It's also possible he got rid of the old bed and mattress and replaced with used.


Very good point, and something I thought about when they showed the old man go into the fish breeding area... Looked like there were a ton of stacked mattresses in the background. The "bombfire" could easily have involved burning the bed and throwing a different mattress in there that was clean, if any of the murder of alleged torture took place in there
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Ogre09
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In reply to Anagrammatic Nudist • 12:20a, 1/3/16
AG
quote:
After a week to ponder the 10 episodes, and the ancillary things I've read since, I'm at this personal conclusion:

SA did it. BD might know some things / might have seen things, but had no hand in the actual killing.

County Sheriffs saw their chance to make sure SA was found guilty and helped the case way along to their advantage.

SA is then sitting there knowing he did it, but also knowing that the Sheriff's office is crooked as well. That's a crazy position to be in.

I just still can't get over the dude crying on cue at the sight of the ribbon tied on the tree, years after the murder. So, so, weird.
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Ogre09
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In reply to thats what I do • 12:23a, 1/3/16
AG
I don't believe the prosecution. I know she got killed. I think someone(s) in the Avery family (including possibly Steven, possibly with the help of Brendan) with access to the property did it. I think the cops planted some evidence. I don't know where or how she was killed and dismembered.
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In reply to Ogre09 • 12:29a, 1/3/16
AG
That's one theory I have as well. Another Avery family member may have done it.

Wasn't there some weird stuff about Barb's husband out there? Then when he said that Steven getting convicted was "the best thing in the world" it seemed very overboard even if he thought Steven was guilty.
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Bunk Moreland
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In reply to thats what I do • 12:36a, 1/3/16
quote:
Wasn't there some weird stuff about Barb's husband out there? Then when he said that Steven getting convicted was "the best thing in the world" it seemed very overboard even if he thought Steven was guilty.


Would it be overboard if he knew some of the allegations that Brendan discusses about Steven touching him and his brothers when talking to his mom? Imo him saying that would then make perfect sense
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In reply to Bunk Moreland • 12:41a, 1/3/16
AG
Probably not.
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Bunk Moreland
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In reply to thats what I do • 12:54a, 1/3/16
Yeah that's the tough part about the whole story. It's just hard for us couch warriors to really know everything, and we can only go with what we were shown in the doc and what we read after, but obviously the doc is more powerful in how it was presented. And this whole story is just so bizarre
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Brock Sampson
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1:54a, 1/3/16
AG
One thing that cracks me up every time a phone conversation is shown

"Hello"
"Yeah"
"Yeah"

And then they start talking.
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MW03
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2:07a, 1/3/16
AG
Why was the tape broken on the blood evidence box? That is such a huge WTF for me. People lose cases all the time when a chain of custody mistake happens.
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Silky Johnston
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2:11a, 1/3/16
After watching the entire series I have a couple of thoughts and am sure I will have more as I ponder the information presented.

The first thing was just how more and more uncomfortable I got when the brother came on screen. He seemed entirely too happy to be in front of cameras talking about his raped/murdered sister. At some points he had the same sh/t eating grin that the prosecutor had. He just seemed strange and I felt no sympathy for a guy who was dealing with the loss of his sister to a grizzly crime. I don't know if that was something that the filmmakers did to introduce doubt in another area of the case. Also, in that weird video that the victim made where she is listing all the stuff she loved, she doesn't mention her brother or brothers. I don't think that means anything, but did anyone else find those videos incredibly strange?

Secondly, damn do I miss Cingular. I was watching with my buddy and when they first mentioned Cingular, we both looked at each other and said, whoo Cingular to Cingular. Some of you may remember what that means.

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Joan Wilder
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10:09a, 1/3/16
AG
I think the brother made a decision that he had to support the prosecution no matter what, and to take that stance with the media.

There's just no way that the murder happened in that trailer or garage and there's zero physical evidence (other than the shell casing found late in the game). Those places were absolute sh*t holes and hadn't been cleaned ever. He might have done it, but no way it went down inside.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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10:19a, 1/3/16
AG
There was definitely something sketchy about Brendan's stepfather and brother.

It's not a bad theory they did it to frame Avery if he'd really molested both the kids.
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Burdizzo
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10:22a, 1/3/16
AG
The program changes focus during the trial from SA to all the evidence and prosecution. Did Steven Avery ever change his story during this ordeal?
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HookThis
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10:35a, 1/3/16
AG
Think horses, not zebras
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Keeper of The Spirits
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11:03a, 1/3/16
AG
After reading Brendan's confession, nothing ever happened in the Avery house. If I had to bet after reading the transcript, Steve came over to Brendans around 9:30. He asked Brendan to help him clean something up. It was either A) leaking fluid from Stevens Monte in the garage b) blood from the crime scene in the garage.

Those two events could be similar looking in Brendans mind. If it's B, then maybe he helps sees the body and helps him burn it. Additionally, if that's the story then Steve killed her earlier in the heat of the moment, panicked, and threw her in the back of the RAV.

He probably didn't shoot or stab her either, he likely blugeoned her outside and that's why there was no physical evidence. Reaching further for motive, maybe he was angry she was late, and was already in a bad mood for some other reason.
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Joan Wilder
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11:44a, 1/3/16
AG
How the hell was Brendan considered mentally fit to stand trial? I'm watching his testimony now and it's so frustrating.
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captkirk
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In reply to thats what I do • 12:48p, 1/3/16
AG
quote:
That Maxim article didn't have much from Kratz describing additional evidence.
The comments about two witnesses seeing him dumping the contents of her purse into his burn barrel was pretty damning in my opinion.
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In reply to captkirk • 12:57p, 1/3/16
AG
quote:
quote:
That Maxim article didn't have much from Kratz describing additional evidence.
The comments about two witnesses seeing him dumping the contents of her purse into his burn barrel was pretty damning in my opinion.


For me it depends on the witnesses (who they were, where they were that they could know it was a purse, relationships to the Avery's or law enforcement, etc.) and still doesn't overcome the lack of blood evidence in the trailer, no victim DNA on the key issue, etc.

I'm not saying SA didn't do it, but I've read more stuff from Kratz. He's inconsistent. However, I do not hold it against him for not participating in the documentary. He would have nothing to gain from doing so.
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Burdizzo
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1:02p, 1/3/16
AG
For them to be so cocksure confident in Steven Avery's guilt and spend over a week at his property gathering evidence there sure was a lot of holes in the case and sloppy, sloppy, investigative work.
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Joan Wilder
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2:51p, 1/3/16
AG
We just finished the series. I'm left with a distinct feeling that a lot was left out from the prosecution's point of view. At the end of the day, her burned body was in his burn pit. That's hard for me to understand, even if the car/key were planted. The cops clearly didn't run down other leads, but I'm not at all convinced SA is innocent.

Brendan's case and his lawyer's mismanagement to the point of prosecutorial complicity is much more troubling. I honestly thought the investigator was trying to demonstrate how easily Brendan could be bullied into signing anything- instead they used it against their own client. That was crazy. The investigator and his phony tears over the blue ribbon were just infuriating.
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MattTheBrave
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4:16p, 1/3/16
AG
Best part of the series...


Prosecutor: "what book could you possibly have read where a woman is raped, tied to the bed, has her throat slit, is shot in the head, and then the body is burned?"


Brendan: "Uh, I believe it's called 'Kiss the Girl'".
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thats what I do
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In reply to MattTheBrave • 4:40p, 1/3/16
AG
quote:
Best part of the series...


Prosecutor: "what book could you possibly have read where a woman is raped, tied to the bed, has her throat slit, is shot in the head, and then the body is burned?"


Brendan: "Uh, I believe it's called 'Kiss the Girl'".


That was unintentionally hilarious along with the taped phone conversations mentioned above:

"Hello"
"Yeah"
"Yeah"

Felt bad laughing.
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Burdizzo
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In reply to thats what I do • 4:44p, 1/3/16
AG
quote:
quote:
Best part of the series...


Prosecutor: "what book could you possibly have read where a woman is raped, tied to the bed, has her throat slit, is shot in the head, and then the body is burned?"


Brendan: "Uh, I believe it's called 'Kiss the Girl'".


That was unintentionally hilarious along with the taped phone conversations mentioned above:

"Hello"
"Yeah"
"Yeah"

Felt bad laughing.


I swear to god Brendan's first PD was Jerry Lundegard
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