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he didn't throw a body into his own yard and light it on fire and sprinkle some bones in other places on the lot, that's for sure.

Either he did it and burned her in the quarry and someone else moved the bones, or someone else killed her and moved them there.

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I think it's conceivable that he thought burning her body at the quarry would do more to destroy it than it did. Then, he thought "well maybe if I burn it in a barrel with a bunch of other stuff it'll get way hotter".

It doesn't pass the reasonable doubt test imo but it could have happened.

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thats somewhat plausible. Id put it all in the barrel though and not in the pit. If also think that is an incredibly messy transport. Shoveling bone and possibly flesh into a container, putting it in your car to transport. I would just expect some evidence of this transport. Presumably in her car since he'd be transporting her there then back since the car would have to come back to his house. I suppose he could have taken her car back then taken a barrel back in his car but I assume they looked at his vehicle as well. All the while bleeding in her car from his finger without leaving a print.

I just don't see how you get a guilty verdict unless the jurors were truly scared of a not guilty verdict

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My best guess at what actually happen:

After Teresa takes pictures at the Avery place, some one attacks, hits her on the head, throws her in the back of her RAV4, drives it to the nearby quarry, rapes her, shoots her, burns the body. They leave with the burnt remains and RAV4 at the quarry.

Cop finds the RAV4 with blood stains in the back and burnt remains and arrest Avery. They then move the RAV4 on to Avery's lot and move the bones to his fire pit and trash barrel, but miss some which are left behind.

The culprit may be Avery, his brother-in-law and step-nephew, or some ex-boyfriend who followed her. Since there is inconclusive evidence for the actual culprit, the cops plant the key as evidence to ensure a conviction. Following Brandon Massey's wildass story, they plant a bullet in the garage to corroborate that.

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Assuming that the RAV4 was left at the quarry (ie the cops found it off site), that almost ensures it was a two person job because you'd need two cars to leave the RAV4 behind

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How do you explain the bones ending up in his fire pit?

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If I was the juror on the trial..that would have been the one major hold up to a not guilty verdict.

You can explain everything else, but not that.

Honestly, if I was the defense, I would have accused Bobby and his dad of the murder and that they planted the bones there to strengthen the case against Avery.

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As already mentioned the judge barred the defense from specifically pointing to anyone else except Brendan.

I see a lot of people confused by the bones. At some point her blood got in the car so she was transported. If Avery burns her at home first and killed her there then why is her blood in the car at all? No need to put her in the car to transport her to his pit. If he transports her off site to burn her then why the hell would he ever bring her bones back? Why no evidence in vehicles of transporting charred remains? Same issue if he partially burns her at home then transports her off site to burn more.

If somebody else did it then it makes sense to me that they burn her off site then plant bones at his place. Not like they can chill by his fire while they burn her body. Too much risk of being seen.

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But your scenario for the bones limits who has the ability to get those bones that close to SA's and the Dassey's houses without being seen or viewed as suspicious.

As corrupt as the cops were, I highly doubt they moved the bones.

So the most likely suspects are somebody in the Avery clan.

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My best guess at what actually happen:

After Teresa takes pictures at the Avery place, some one attacks, hits her on the head, throws her in the back of her RAV4, drives it to the nearby quarry, rapes her, shoots her, burns the body. They leave with the burnt remains and RAV4 at the quarry.

Cop finds the RAV4 with blood stains in the back and burnt remains and arrest Avery. They then move the RAV4 on to Avery's lot and move the bones to his fire pit and trash barrel, but miss some which are left behind.

The culprit may be Avery, his brother-in-law and step-nephew, or some ex-boyfriend who followed her. Since there is inconclusive evidence for the actual culprit, the cops plant the key as evidence to ensure a conviction. Following Brandon Massey's wildass story, they plant a bullet in the garage to corroborate that.

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Assuming that the RAV4 was left at the quarry (ie the cops found it off site), that almost ensures it was a two person job because you'd need two cars to leave the RAV4 behind

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Well, we have one cop that called in the car and another that checked out the blood and found the key. So there's that.

Subsequent posters have answered the "bones question" for you. We know there is no way the body was burned there in an open pit, so they had to be moved there. It makes no sense that Avery or Dassey would have moved already charred bones to an open pit on a property where multiple family members would have been passing by.

My issue with this:

It seems WAY too coincidental that Colburn, a perceived crooked cop, is the one that "finds" the car in the quarry. I think he had to know it was there, i.e. he may have been involved in her murder.

Would Colburn murder an innocent person in order to effectuate a dropping of the civil suit? Crazy to consider.

I agree the most likely scenario is she was attacked then transported to the quarry where the killer attempted to burn the body. The remains were then transported to the barrel/burn pit in an attempt to continue to destroy her remains and/or frame Stephen.

I don't think this was done by crooked cops - this was done by one of the Avery clan or Tadych The 2 Avery brothers are extremely sketchy with history of violence towards women, as was Stephen. That's my theory.

Now the Rav-4 might have been moved by the killer or the cops into the salvage yard.

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I agree the most likely scenario is she was attacked then transported to the quarry where the killer attempted to burn the body. The remains were then transported to the barrel/burn pit in an attempt to continue to destroy her remains and/or frame Stephen.

I don't think this was done by crooked cops - this was done by one of the Avery clan or Tadych The 2 Avery brothers are extremely sketchy with history of violence towards women, as was Stephen. That's my theory.

Now the Rav-4 might have been moved by the killer or the cops into the salvage yard.

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I agree with this.

I have a feeling that Bobby and his dad did it and framed the other two.

It doesn't make sense for it to have been anybody else.

The biggest thing is still some idea of where the murder actually took place and how they transported the bones back.

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Assuming that the RAV4 was left at the quarry (ie the cops found it off site), that almost ensures it was a two person job because you'd need two cars to leave the RAV4 behind

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Well, we have one cop that called in the car and another that checked out the blood and found the key. So there's that.

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I was implying that it was probably the Tadych and step son duo who decided to kick off their hunting trip with a little murder-rape

I think that if anyone beside Steven did it, it was someone else on the Avery property. The first ones I would look at are Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey. Chuck would also be looked at. All investigation would need to be done by the state police.

What do you do right now?

In my opinion, Brendan's only evidence is he spilled bleach. He should be fully pardoned. Zero evidence associating him with the crime. Come on, if he did it, he would have finally told them SOMETHING incriminating. Nothing tied him to the crime.

Steve, I don't know. I don't see enough untainted evidence to convict, so if I were a judge, I would overturn the conviction and let him have a new trial. He may have done it but he may not have.

To give Steve a new trial:

1. You have to believe the key was planted. I do. Come on - multiple searches.

2. You have to believe the DNA on the bullet was planted. I certainly do. Bad lab work, silly search in the garage months into the trial. Finding a literal needle in a haystack but yet NO OTHER GARAGE EVIDENCE.

3. You have to believe the car was planted and the blood/DNA evidence was planted. This one, I actually have trouble with. The reasons I think it could be planted:

The cop reading the license plate days after her disappearance but before car was found makes me think the car is tainted.
The sloppy, silly way the car was hidden. No one will see it if I put limbs 5 feet apart!
The way two girls find the car immediately among 10,000 cars.
The fact that the boyfriend gets free reign at the property.
The way the cops lied about keeping it secure - oh, we had a checklist! Just nobody signed in or out!
The fact that the blood vial has a hypodermic hole in it.
The fact that the blood seal was tampered with.
The sloppy forensics work at the lab.

4. Brendan's confession was false.

Other than that, the only other evidence against Steve really is the bone fragments. But that doesn't limit the crime to Steve.

They should have taken a hard look at everyone on that property, especially the 2 Avery brothers with history of violence and sexual assaults, and Brendan's stepdad Tadych whose alibi was contradicted by the bus driver. All, plus Steven, had means and opportunity to commit the crime.

Two questions:

1. Was there evidence provided which showed that bleach was used in the garage?

2. Yesterday I listened to an interview with Ken Kratz on the Michael Smerconish radio show and Kratz said that the license plates were removed from the RAV4 and found in one of the other cars in the salvage yard. Has anyone else heard this?

Well one thing is for certain...someone killed her.

/John Madden Holmes

Every theory seems to have some hole in it. If it weren't for Brendan Dassey this thing would probably have a lot more plausible theories but his make believe story really screwed everything up

My best guess:

• Halbach pulled over after leaving Avery's place. Probably talking on the phone(stalker ex-bf)
• Scott and or Bobby shot her while out hunting. Either by accident or trying to scare her. Headshot with the .22
• They let her bleed out for the most part. Threw her in the back of the Rav 4 and drove down to the Quarry.
• Took her out of the Rav4 (blood/hair in trunk); cut her up with hunting knife and burned most of her body(10 foot flame)
• Scott comes back and sees Steve Avery having a "bombfire" (3 foot flame) and hatches a plan to dump some of the evidence in his pits...just in case
• Colburn finds the Rav4 and calls it in. However I don't think they have a key at this point. Scott probably burned it along with the cellphone and other stuff
• Blood is likely planted at this point.
• Sheriff's dept get the spare key and drive the Rav4 back to Avery's place and stash it
• Sheriffs dept nudge ex-bf and brother in the right direction on location of Rav4. To make it less obvious they stage a community hunt. Tell the aunt to search the compound bc if they found the Rav4 it may be suspicous. Honestly think the Aunt got flat out lucky based on their starting point
• Plant spare key that's magically void of any DNA in trailer along with some other junk like the Autotrader magazine and a blank bill of sale
• Scott and or Bobby start planting ideas and things into Brendan's head. Scary story stuff about the crazy uncle and how he probably raped and murdered her etc.
• Brendan cracks under pressure and starts making up jibberish. Puts himself at the scene(repressed urges to kill or rape?)
• Ex-bf is a stalker but relitively harmless. Tried to play off his accessing her phone records as something normal. Probably thought he would look like a suspect so did a few things to avoid suspicion.
• Prob had the brother delete some voice messages for him or at least cover for him
• Bullet is planted in garage after all the initial items come up clean

That's about it though. I just find it hard to believe that Steve Avery could commit an almost perfect murder then botch hiding the evidence so badly

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Two questions:

1. Was there evidence provided which showed that bleach was used in the garage?

2. Yesterday I listened to an interview with Ken Kratz on the Michael Smerconish radio show and Kratz said that the license plates were removed from the RAV4 and found in one of the other cars in the salvage yard. Has anyone else heard this?

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There was no evidence that bleach was used. In fact, they found tons of SA's DNA in the garage and bleach would have destroyed all DNA, including his.

I've heard that about the license plates. Doesn't prove anything. If you are planting the car, you can plant the plate.

Bleach won't destroy DNA evidence. You need far more caustic or acidic material for that.

At best the investigation was done so poorly as to set him free.

1 things for certain:

Kratz is a Fuggen moron.

Reading up on the case before watching I was leaning towards him being guilty but I'm almost totally on the opposite side. Both of these judges are horrid. How do you allow evidence collected by people who are currently involved in a freaking lawsuit with the defendant?

Regardless of the rest of what happened that key was planted which throws dispersions on everything else. Hoping this gets sorted out on appeal.

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Bleach won't destroy DNA evidence. You need far more caustic or acidic material for that.

At best the investigation was done so poorly as to set him free.

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I believe the FBI DNA expert testified otherwise

I thought from the first witness we watched (Bobby Dassey) that Bobby was involved. Call me crazy, but he just looks suspicious.

Then he alibis himself with his step-dad. Then the bus driver blows his timeline out of the water by placing TH taking pictures almost 1 hour after Bobby said he'd noticed her taking the pictures and his stated departure time.

There's also the step-dad bumping the fire to 10 feet from his original 3 foot statement to the police.

They never went into detail about the questioning to Tadych about trying to sell some guns. I'm sure it meant something otherwise they wouldn't have shown it.

In a documentary of WTF moments the greatest one to me was how Brendan wasn't granted an appeal after Kachinsky and his investigator were pantsed at the motion for new trial hearing.

The brother on the TV cameras pissed me off. I know I should feel sorry for him and it's a flaw of mine that I'm focusing on his apparent love for the cameras. But damn I wanted to throat punch him every time they aired him.

Maybe it was too obvious to need it included in the series, but the documentary made it look like the lack of blood all over the scene was really only mentioned to the jury in the closing arguments. You'd think there would be crime scene experts for a full episode of the series arguing there's no way a human could have their throat slit and be shot in the head in that environment and there be zero blood evidence left behind.

Re: the father of a sheriff's deputy and a husband of a clerk on the jury - the attorneys are only allowed X amount of juror strikes before they are forced to accept the next ones in numerical order. Apparently some with worse biases were stuck previously and the defense was out of strikes.

I work with a guy that looks like Ken Kratz twin brother. His voice is the exact same as well. When I see him walk through the office I want to trip him j/k

Let me Google that for you.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2008/11/06/want-to-get-away-with-murder-use-a-special-detergent/#.VpEn5Z9MHqA

The problem is not just destroying blood but finding it all. If they were stabbing her and slashing her throat in the bedroom blood would have gone everywhere. Without special tools they wouldn't even be able to find it all in the house. Hell, there was enough of it in her car and supposedly this criminal mastermind missed blood on the interior plastic walls.

But somehow managed to clean it all up 100% completely in the house and garage. Every small drop in all the carpet fibers but we're too stupid to clean up her car. Uh, right.

And after she was shot in the head they managed to clean up all the tissue and bone fragments that's would have gone everywhere due to velocity of the bullet. With chlorine based bleach, which doesn't destroy dna. This in a filthy shop with **** everywhere.

Finished it last night. I don't know if he's guilty or not, but I am sure the "investigation" was handled so poorly he never could have gotten a fair trial. Mistrial.

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Bleach won't destroy DNA evidence. You need far more caustic or acidic material for that.

At best the investigation was done so poorly as to set him free.

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I believe the FBI DNA expert testified otherwise

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Was this the "scientist" that testified under oath he didn't need to test something to be certain where it came from?

Give me a break, the FBI should ashamed of their involvement.

Judge Jeanine is going to do a special at 7 on Fox on this case.

Donnie Wahlberg has some hot takes

http://uproxx.com/filmdrunk/donnie-wahlberg-making-a-murderer-editorial/

yeah...not going to bother clicking and reading that. that dude in general is a ra-tard.

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yeah...not going to bother clicking and reading that. that dude in general is a ra-tard.

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Its worth it for the breakdown

In what city is your office located? I happen to work with a dead ringer for Krantz too.