Exactly what I said when I saw him. Seemed like a complete dumb ass. The ****-eating grin didn't help.

We said that exact thing this morning watching that PD on the stand, chewing his lip because he was exposed for lying on the stand. how do you go on the stand so unprepared and don't remember your interviews with news stations are ON TAPE ?

Said the same thing this whole time.

Through seven episodes and my mind is absolutely blown by the way both of these cases were handled.

These people better hide because I think a huge microscope is going to be put on them as this documentary gains momentum...

So just watched the whole thing.

Wow.

It's hard to tell because of powers of editing and stuff but it seems like there is definitely some shady stuff going on.

Also, those two lawyers were BAD.ASS.

Also, am I the only one that liked to think that coach Taylor was defending Steven? Haha.

Remember Steven..clear eyes, full hearts..

I just finished episode 8 and I still have no idea what to believe. It's certainly possible that SA was in fact the murderer and the cops wanted to ensure a conviction. However, I can't imagine as a juror how I would have been able to find him guilty. There just isn't enough clear unquestionable evidence to do so. And how in the world could they have found him guilty of murder, but not mutilation?
There's no doubt SA had incredible lawyers, they were awesome! It's a shame they weren't allowed to bring to trial suspicions of who else may have had motive to kill Halbach. I think the lack of focus on any other possible subjects was a major misstep by the police in this case.

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Best part of the series...


Prosecutor: "what book could you possibly have read where a woman is raped, tied to the bed, has her throat slit, is shot in the head, and then the body is burned?"


Brendan: "Uh, I believe it's called 'Kiss the Girl'".

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The part that I literally laughed out loud at:

Cops: "Come on Brendan, what did he do to her head? There was something with the head?..."

Brendan: "He...uh...cut her hair?..."

I felt bad laughing knowing they were talking about a homicide victim. But come on, how can anyone see that part of the tape and really think that kid should be convicted much less fit to stand trial?

Finished yesterday. I have reasonable doubt as to Steve being guilty of the murder. I have absolute doubt that Brendan was involved in any way and I cannot see how they possibly could have found him guilty aside from his coerced confessions that were beyond sickening to see exploited.

I thought it was interesting that Sgt. Colburn escorted Steve to the cop car after the trial...Lt. Lenk and Sgt. Colburn were the shadiest guys in this entire ordeal. Kachinsky, O'Kelly and Kratz weren't too far behind.

I was so confused/pissed off that Colburn was still the one escorting Brendan around even after the trial. That is just ridiculous.

Also, what the hell were they feeding that kid in prison?

http://www.pajiba.com/netflix_movies_and_tv/is-steven-avery-guilty-evidence-making-a-murderer-didnt-present.php#.VonyzaiSCgk.facebook

Mike Halbach works for the Packers and has for 12 years. Not really that important but it now makes this thread Sportsy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3y5brb/they_are_guilty_and_they_couldnt_be_happier_about/



She was most likely killed and burned at the quarry where the murderer(s) would not have to worry about witnesses or odor.

There are a few gaps in the theory above. I do not believe Colburn was looking at the car, I believe he already knew what type of vehicle she drove and he just got tripped up on stand and couldn't articulate that, or the filmakers left out further clarification on that point.

Scott T. did say the flames were 3 feet tall, then later said they were 10ft tall. He also made comments to the media along the lines that it was best that Steve was convicted.

Bobby mentions Avery joked about getting rid of a body after it was all over the news. I didnt see Avery deny this, which makes it something that he may have either innocently said, or very very stupidly said.

Scott and Bobby were the only 2 people on the property that pointed finger at Steve. They were also out "hunting" at the same time Theresa was murdered.

Regardless, there is no doubt police believed Steve was guilty from the get go, and very probable that they planted evidence. They clearly didnt exercise process of elimination with people close to Theresa or potential suspects around the Avery property.

There is no excuse for appeals denails considering the conflict of interest anouncements and subsequent involvement from deposed officers. The prosecution mentions it didnt matter if a key was planted, and argued that Avery killed her in the garage in one trial, and agrgued she was raped and murdered in the trailer in Brendan's trial.

There is a slant in the film, but also some likely internal family drama missing as well.

Interesting. After a few days of finishing I think they are my #1 theory as well. Hell, Bobby had scratches on his back when he was questioned.

I just can't figure out why they would want Brendan to take the fall as well.

At the risk of sounding pro-eugenics, regardless of guilt or innocence in this particular case, society is probably better off without Steven Avery on the streets. And Brendon is so outlet-licking stupid that he's a danger to himself and others and should be in some sort of assisted care at the very least. They are a drag on a productive society.

Yes, the prosecution and law enforcement are backwards, incompetent and corrupt as all hell, but the end result that miraculously managed to bumblef*** their way into was for the best.

Side note, who knew rural Wisconsin was such a backwoods and barely-literate Thunderdome?

Good series. With this level of scrutiny, I think you could probably poke some pretty large holes in most cases and I think a ton of cases are made more by circumstantial evidence than by real hard evidence.

I think Brendan was tried the way he was as punishment for not cooperating in the investigation against Avery. I was shocked that they convicted him after his cousin recanted her story and after Brendan was able to give a reference to where he got the scenario that he described to police.

Also... yikes.

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It's a pretty awful story, but if the topic of false confessions interests you at all, look up the Riley Fox murder case. She was a three year old girl who was sexually assaulted and killed.
The killer left his DNA on her, actually left shoes with his name written in them near where her body was found, and fully confessed. So there's no doubt who did it. But prior to arresting him, the police arrested and charged the girl's father after getting him to confess.
By all accounts, the father was a well-spoken, normal guy. He wasn't an adult version of Brenden. But he hadn't slept in over a day, was interrogated for hours, and says he was told he'd only serve a few years if he said it was an accident and admitted responsibility. (Promising leniency in an exchange for a confession is not allowed.) He'd also lost his daughter in a horrible fashion, so there's no telling what his mental state was like under the surface.
But if an innocent father can be coerced into giving a false confession about the sexual assault and murder of his own 3 year old daughter, it seems like the sort of thing that could potentially happen to anyone under the right circumstances. Everyone has a breaking point.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Riley_Fox#Kevin_Fox

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Interesting. After a few days of finishing I think they are my #1 theory as well. Hell, Bobby had scratches on his back when he was questioned.

I just can't figure out why they would want Brendan to take the fall as well.

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Scott is the stepdad and may not be very emotionally attached to the sons. Brendan is just a burden as far as he is concerned. This is his chance to get rid of creepy brother-in-law and mentally challenged unwanted stepson in one swipe. If the cops had it in for Steven, it gets even easier. I would bet Scott had easy access to all that property, including the garage, just like Steven did. It still leaves the question of how Avery's DNA got in the car, though.

Jesus H. Christ.

It seems now that most people's response is "he probably did it, but there was some shady stuff done by the police."

I don't think anyone would be saying, after all of this evidence, that he still did it had he not been wrongfully imprisoned for the rape. Even though he was cleared, it seems that he's still presumed capable of the murder bc he was associated with the rape. If he was an unknown person with a crazy cat crime on his record, I don't think people would watch this documentary (and the weak circumstantial evidence that wasn't included) and say "ya he probably did it even though the police went too far."

Which is incredibly strange and an interesting psychological insight to the human mind.

You know, that's interesting. And the lawyers touched on that ingeniously with their closing when they said he could't get his reputation back from the 18 years he did for the rape.

If there was anything to all this, it's that Avery killed her and though he could get away with it because he could just say they were framing him. The cops knew he'd play that card, so they went above and beyond to make sure he was convicted by planting evidence.

To me, that the body was found in SA's burn pit and he's the last one to have seen her alive is pretty suspicious. But the lack of physical evidence, clear police tampering, and the coerced confession muddy everything. There's no way, in my mind, he killed her in the bloody and violent manner they described due to the lack of physical evidence in the trailer and garage. That place was a complete cluttered sh@t hole and looked like it hadn't been cleaned in 30years.

I have a lot of suspicion towards Scott (Brendan's step dad) and Bobby. Their timelines were discredited by the bus driver and their alibis only cover each other. The burn barrel was Scott's, and I've read that the van Theresa was photographing was Brendan/Bobby's mom's. (Barb?)

After watching the series then reading the 14 elements omitted from the documentary, if those are true then the guy is a dirt bag and likely guilty, would I convict him, probably. Especially if ballistics matched his gun. Brandon should not be in jail that's the real story.
I think the cops planted extra evidence to make sure Steven was found guilty, I think he killed her.

I think the Kachinsky guy was criminal. I've watched 8 episodes.

What was the point of coercing another confession out of him with his investigator? I don't understand that whole scene. I thought he was trying to prove how easy it is to get this kid to admit to anything, but then he sends him to tell the cops his confession again. Why would any attorney want his client to admit to something there is no evidence(other than the confession) he did??? I cannot come up with a legit reason Kachinsky went through this charade other than he was actively working for the prosecution to get Brendan to testify in the Avery trial. I would be interested to know what Kachinsky says about it today.

What an odd twist of fate that it happens a film crew is creating this documentary of his wrongful conviction when this murder case comes up.

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What an odd twist of fate that it happens a film crew is creating this documentary of his wrongful conviction when this murder case comes up.

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The film crew didnt start making the doc until his arrest for the murder

Avery was the last person on her schedule that day...whether she saw anyone else after needed to be investigated.

I can't figure out Kachinsky's motives either. At best, he was just lazy and wanted brendan to plea out so he could say "I saved him from getting life." His use of the investigator though clearly points to something much more sinister - that he was in cahoots with Avery's prosecutors to get a confession out of Brendan to help the case against Avery. His only job is to advocate for his client - he worked AGAINST his client.

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Did anyone else think that the blood stain in the car, next to the ignition, look exactly like what you'd expect to see if you'd applied it with a cotton swab?

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Yes. Such shoddy police work tbh.

I'm on episode 8. Wow, what a story.

I'm undecided on if I think he did or not. I lean towards not guilty. What motive would he have given how great his life was swinging at that particular time. I think it's very clear that there was corruption at several different levels of law enforcement and possibly in the DA office though.

The worst offender to me is Kratz. Arguing one scenario to get a conviction of Avery and a completely different scenario to get Brendan is just insane to me. That feels like a serious lack of integrity that should be questioned. I hope that is not common and accepted practice in litigation.

The part I can't reconcile is how would the bones get in his burn pit if he wasn't guilty? Even if they were planted, how could they plant that without someone seeing them given it's proximity to all of the homes?