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There are likely a lot of sides and potential evidence not presented in the doc regarding the case.

But Dassey's lawyer EMAILING the prosecutors telling them to interview his mentally challenged, minor client without him or a parent there and for the cops to check in with his investigator for the best way to get a confession is beyond the pale. A defense attorney might try to work with the prosecutor to negotiate a plea, but they would NEVER do that without attempting to get charges dropped or reduced. There's no 2 sides to that story. That guy grinned and served up that kid to ingratiate himself to the DA's office.

That he had that investigator at all was so bizarre.

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I pretty much agree with all of this. But this is small town Wisconsin, not Houston or Austin or Dallas.

My point is don't be shocked. The justice system is ****ed. Hell, look at the biker arrests and that fiasco in McLennan County. Basic rights being disregarded by the judge and Da. From the "law enforcement" side along with the judge.... And it's a much more populated and educated area than manitowoc County, WI.

We are all on the same page in regards to his lawyer and what we think should have happened to Dassey

We don't disagree at all on that. Again, Dassey should have been found not guilty based on what we saw. No way did the state prove guilt.

i bet everyone in guitarsoup's life goes way out of their way to not mention anything related to this doc irl.

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i bet everyone in guitarsoup's life goes way out of their way to not mention anything related to this doc irl.

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i bet everyone in guitarsoup's life goes way out of their way to not mention anything related to this doc irl.

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I don't think I have talked to anyone about it IRL.

Glad he won on appeal. I don't think dassey had anything to do with the murder. I do think he probably knew something after the fact.

Probably gonna catch hate and I think I mentioned it earlier in this thread, but I understand Kachinsky's strategy.

Kachinsky was appointed AFTER the initial confession. He was in a ****ty position. He had to decide to either (a) take the position his client made all that up and attempt to get the confession thrown out [obviously this was the right choice but still would have been a difficult task] or (b) have his client cooperate as a witness against Avery and cut a deal.

He was trying to do (b). However the prosecution wasnt going to make a deal with Dassey waivering and saying maybe he made it all up. I'm sure Kachinsky thought Dassey was somehow involved and was trying to get his client to cooperate so he would be able to get a deal. Dassey ended up NOT testifying against Avery so no deal was available and it makes Kachinsky's strategy look horrible in hindsight, but I dont necessarily think it was the worst strategy of all time. Assuming Dassey would have cooperated, i could see him getting ~10 years and being done with it. Then the stategy doesnt look that bad.

Dont get me wrong. I think Kachinsky screwed up and I think he failed his client in all respects, I'm just saying I understand his strategy, especially given the circumstances. As a criminal defense attorney, I'm sure he is used to dealing with some real pieces of ****, so at some point he just assumes everyone is a POS and he begins to act accordingly. I'm sure he assumed Dassey was somehow involved and surmised it was going to be in Dasseys best interest to testify against Avery (especially given the fact he had already "confessed" to being involved).

I will say that our criminal justice system is set up to efficiently and effectively deal with guilty people. Most everyone caught up in the system is "guilty" so it ends up working great the majority of the time. However, the system does not work well for innocent people and i think the 1st Avery rape case and this deal with Dassey expose those flaws.

So does this even happen if not for the documentary? Or would this be the result of normal appeal process?

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So does this even happen if not for the documentary? Or would this be the result of normal appeal process?

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You gotta think the documentary helped. That judge probably reviews hundreds of writs of habeus corpus a year from guilty people to the point where it almost becomes a rubber stamp to deny them. Knowing this one involved "that guy from MaM" probably got the judge's attention to really look it over.

Kachinsky had zero interest in actually mounting a defense (your option a)

Option B makes perfect sense IF he actually made an effort to negotiate a deal for his client. He didn't. He specifically calls out in his email that no consideration will be made for Brendan's cooperation. That is bananas.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1nzus-fCQcodUlXb1ctQTlYQ2c/view?pref=2&pli=1

IIRC, the reason they didn't use Dassey against Avery is the prosecutors knew what a terrible witness he'd be. And they didn't need it with the "evidence" they had.

WHERE WAS THE BLOOD????

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Kachinsky had zero interest in actually mounting a defense (your option a)

Option B makes perfect sense IF he actually made an effort to negotiate a deal for his client. He didn't. He specifically calls out in his email that no consideration will be made for Brendan's cooperation. That is bananas.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1nzus-fCQcodUlXb1ctQTlYQ2c/view?pref=2&pli=1

IIRC, the reason they didn't use Dassey against Avery is the prosecutors knew what a terrible witness he'd be. And they didn't need it with the "evidence" they had.

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The consideration would have been given for Dassey actually testifying at trial. Of course the prosecution isn't going to make a deal just for an interview during the investigation.

Its hard to say what, if any, negotiations Kachinsky had going with the prosecution since those weren't made public.

In order for Dassey's testimony to have any value for prosecution, it needed to be reliable and consistent. It turned out to be the opposite of this so no chance for a deal. Dassey decided not to cooperate (this is when he tried to fired Kachinsky the first time because Kachinsky was advising him to cooperate and testify against Steve).

The prosecution didnt use Dassey in Averys trial probably for many reasons (and what they ended up with from him was pretty weak), but they would not have been able to force him to testify and they couldnt use his prior statements in Avery's trial without Dassey testifying as those statements would be hearsay.

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The emails in which Kachinsky served up his client to be interrogated without counsel and with the agreement that NO CONSIDERATION would be made for Dassey's cooperation are public. It's pretty clear he wasn't negotiating for a deal.

You don't let your client talk about his involvement in a crime without a deal on the table.

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Yeah, like I said, Kachinsky screwed up pretty bad so I definitely don't want to get sucked in to trying defend him. I was just saying I somewhat understand the strategy.

I think in Kachinsky's mind, Dassey knew Avery murdered Teresa and probably saw the body and helped Steve get rid of it. He was thinking the best play was to get his client in good with the prosecution and plea him down to some kind of accessory after the fact type charge.

I could see that strategy working IF (a) Dassey was in fact invovled and (b) Dassey went along with the plan to cooperate.

With the benefit of hindsight, it was obviously a bad decision by Kachinsky and he failed his client miserably. I just dont necessarily think he was actively trying to screw his client over for no good reason.

If Kachinsky had accompanied Dassey to his police interview, you might have a point. But he hired a guy to badger a confession out of him, then told the cops to contact the investigator for the best strategy to obtain a confession. He deliberately and consciously chose to send a mentally challenged kid in to a police interview without counsel - if Kachinsky was trying to help Dassey he'd have been there with him.

The emails he was sending at the time really don't seem to show any concern for his client, but instead a desire to ingratiate himself with the prosecution and convict Avery.

I don't think Kachinsky really had any sort of plan. I think saying he was colluding with the prosecution is giving him too much credit. I think he was just a crappy lawyer who saw an unwinnable case and said F it. I'm not going to waste any time on this one.

I think over turning Dassey's conviction is interesting, but I wonder if it will hold up on appeal. I feel like it's hard to say, "Oh, even though you brutally murdered this girl, you didn't know that confessing would get you in trouble, so we'll let you off." The kid definitely had a crappy lawyer who didn't do him any favors, but unless they come up with new evidence he still looks guilty to me.

Finally.

Weird.. I was just thinking about this yesterday.

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"The court does not find that the respondent [State of Wisconsin] has a strong likelihood of success on appeal."

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Yeeeeeaaaaahhhhhh....

Did he make it to 5th period?






Yeah, I know I am a horrible person.

Btw, I'm single, ladies

Ginormus Ag said:

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Did he make it to 5th period?






Yeah, I know I am a horrible person.

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I laughed.

MAKING A MURDERER' LAWYER ALLEGES EX-BOYFRIEND OF HALBACH WAS MURDERER

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Zellner alleges Halbach's ex-boyfriend, Ryan Hillegas, maintained a romantic interest in her even after they had broken up. The lawyer's petition says Hillegas pursued Teresa after she began a sexual relationship with her roommate Scott Bloedorn. But that is not all Zellner says about Halbach's ex.

"Reportedly, Mr. Bloedorn was also Mr. Hillegas' best friend," the petition says. "Mr. Hillegas committed perjury at trial when he described Ms. Halbach's relationship with Mr. Bloedorn as platonic and never romantic or sexual in nature."

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As for planted evidence, Zellner says Hillegas was involved in that, too. She said it was no coincidence that he spearheaded the public search that resulted in the discovery of Teresa's Toyota RAV4 on the Avery property. She claims Hillegas took part in other searches, identifying himself as "Ryan Kilgus."

Zellner said he likely led law enforcement into the Avery salvage yard before the RAV4 was found, alluding to the theory that the discovery was staged.

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Injuries to Hillagas' hands, seen in Making a Murderer, are also connected with the crime, Zellner's petition claims. It has been widely speculated that Hillegas received the cuts during a struggle with Halbach.

Zellner claims because Kratz did not need to establish motive per Wisconsin law, police did not spend any time looking into why Halbach was killed. The reason is clear, she says. Jealousy was the motive.

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Hillegas also had no alibi for Oct. 31, 2005, the day Halbach was killed.

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http://www.inquisitr.com/4276828/making-a-murderer-lawyer-accuses-ex-boyfriend-of-halbach-murder-breaking/amp/

What a fascinating case.

Wow interesting. It's been a long time since I saw the doc, but as I recall the ex boyfriend and roommate had very odd demeanors on the news reports and searches. The fact that the key that was found in the trailer was likely an extra key, not her normal keys with a key chain and house keys, always seemed fishy to me, and the ex/roommate could have easily provided that to the cops who wanted to nail Avery.

200 of the 1200 pages of her motion.


https://static1.squarespace.com/static/55203379e4b08b1328203a7d/t/593959e0c534a5d8325b9f5b/1496930822077/2017.06.07+-+Motion+for+Post-Conviction+Relief2.pdf

Wisconsin is a close second to Florida for weird sh t.

Ryan and the brother are both very suspicious. Watching his testimony, Ryan looks really sketchy. He has a sort of sinister half smile throughout.

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Injuries to Hillagas' hands, seen in Making a Murderer, are also connected with the crime, Zellner's petition claims. It has been widely speculated that Hillegas received the cuts during a struggle with Halbach.

Zellner claims because Kratz did not need to establish motive per Wisconsin law, police did not spend any time looking into why Halbach was killed. The reason is clear, she says. Jealousy was the motive.

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Interesting... I don't remember this.

I always thought it was BS that they went right after Avery from the get go and seemed to pay very little if any attention to the ex boyfriend. In a case like this seems like he would have been one of the most obvious suspects and the documentary makes it seem like they hardly considered him.

they made point of talking about his hands in the doc. I may have to rewatch this thing.