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Also, if the cops were going to plant her car on the Avery property, why go through the trouble of removing the plates and hiding them elsewhere. Seems pointless.

The plates being removed and hidden elsewhere suggest to me that someone who isn't all that bright thought that would make he car unidentifiable.

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The cops did something shady with the car. There is no doubt in my mind, since Colburn made that call about the plates before it was officially found.

So if I'm them, and I am going to plant blood inside (that I don't have on me yet), I would drive it to a secure place first. But I wouldn't want to drive anywhere in a car of a known missing person. So I would at least put new plates on it beforehand. So they put new plates on it, drive it somewhere remote or secure, and leave it there. Then they go get a sample of Avery's blood, come back, and plant it in the car. Then they got to take the plates off, because they can't leave the car at the Avery lot with bogus plates (that might trace back to them). But they don't want to put the old plates back on and get seen towing that car back to Avery's lot. So they just leave the plates off

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Yeah that is somewhat reasonable, but taking the car to a secure location seems risky. Increases odds someone sees you. Even with bogus plates, most people don't notice plates, just the make/color so you are increasing odds of having a witness who saw the car going somewhere. I would think if they were going to plant blood in the jeep the safer bet would be to do it out on the location it was found or where they took it.

As for the blood smears, surely both defense and prosecution had experts testify about it. There are people who literally make their living doing nothing but that kind of analysis.

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Also, if the cops were going to plant her car on the Avery property, why go through the trouble of removing the plates and hiding them elsewhere. Seems pointless.

The plates being removed and hidden elsewhere suggest to me that someone who isn't all that bright thought that would make he car unidentifiable.

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The cops did something shady with the car. There is no doubt in my mind, since Colburn made that call about the plates before it was officially found.

So if I'm them, and I am going to plant blood inside (that I don't have on me yet), I would drive it to a secure place first. But I wouldn't want to drive anywhere in a car of a known missing person. So I would at least put new plates on it beforehand. So they put new plates on it, drive it somewhere remote or secure, and leave it there. Then they go get a sample of Avery's blood, come back, and plant it in the car. Then they got to take the plates off, because they can't leave the car at the Avery lot with bogus plates (that might trace back to them). But they don't want to put the old plates back on and get seen towing that car back to Avery's lot. So they just leave the plates off

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Yeah that is somewhat reasonable, but taking the car to a secure location seems risky. Increases odds someone sees you. Even with bogus plates, most people don't notice plates, just the make/color so you are increasing odds of having a witness who saw the car going somewhere. I would think if they were going to plant blood in the jeep the safer bet would be to do it out on the location it was found or where they took it.

As for the blood smears, surely both defense and prosecution had experts testify about it. There are people who literally make their living doing nothing but that kind of analysis.

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If the car was somewhere that they thought might get discovered by a search party, then they would have had no choice. And I'm not talking about them driving it 30 miles through town. Probably someplace secluded nearby.

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Avery's fancy new attorneys filed a bunch of motions yesterday, including asking for his release on bond.

http://i.imgur.com/DzQyr9o.png

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Those weren't filed by his attorney. No way she could work that fast (nor ask for something as ridiculous as a release on bond).

Those were all filed by Avery himself apparently based on his research at the prison law library. The motions are, um, unique. He has an interesting interpretation of law for sure. I very seriously doubt his new attorney reviewed or approved the filings.

Not sure if this link will work

http://localtvwiti.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/avery-motions-filed-1-11-16.pdf

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I'll never be convinced that he hid the car on his property. Or that Pam Sturm got lucky or guided by Jesus to find it:

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Agreed.

I think it's most likely that the cops put the car there and tipped off someone heading the search party on where to find it.

I'm not entirely certain that Pam Sturm knew, but somebody did and made sure she was in the right spot.

Steven Avery killed her (45%)
Any other Avery killed her (45%)
Her ex-boyfriend killed her (10%)
The cops killed her (0%)
The cops planted the key (99%)
The cops planted the bullet (90%)
The cops planted the car (80%)
The cops planted the blood in the car (80%)

If the searcher came in that road, it's not surprising she found it so quickly since it's right there and was staged so obviously. If she'd walked right to a car in the middle of the property that would be more suspicious to me.

Someone placed that car in that spot to make sure it was easily found on the Avery property. Even if it was another Avery, they'd know that would point to Steven.

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Steven Avery killed her (45%)
Any other Avery killed her (45%)
Her ex-boyfriend killed her (10%)
The cops killed her (0%)
The cops planted the key (99%)
The cops planted the bullet (90%)
The cops planted the car (80%)
The cops planted the blood in the car (80%)

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+1

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If the searcher came in that road, it's not surprising she found it so quickly since it's right there and was staged so obviously. If she'd walked right to a car in the middle of the property that would be more suspicious to me.

Someone placed that car in that spot to make sure it was easily found on the Avery property. Even if it was another Avery, they'd know that would point to Steven.

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If you were really trying to hide the car you certainly could do better than that.

Exactly. If they wanted it to be found on the Avery lot, that's where you'd leave it.

http://www.dailydot.com/politics/making-a-murderer-cfaa-ryan-hillegas-cingular-password/?fb=dd


The boyfriend broke up pretty serious federal law by hacking into her voicemail

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I'll play -

Steven Avery killed her (15)
Any other Avery killed her (65)
Her ex-boyfriend killed her (20)
The cops killed her (0%)
The cops planted the key (99%)
The cops planted the bullet (90%)
The cops planted the car (80%)
The cops planted the blood in the car (80%)

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+1

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Key was planted
Car was moved and "hidden" so that it could easily be found - not by SA

Steven Avery killed her (55%)
Any other Avery killed her (20%)
Her ex-boyfriend killed her (1%, unless that's the guy that was stalking her)
The cops killed her (0%)
The cops planted the key (100%)
The cops planted the bullet (100%)
The cops planted the car (90%)
The cops planted the blood in the car (99%)

Steven Avery killed her (85%)
Any other Avery killed her (10%)
Her ex-boyfriend killed her (4%, unless that's the guy that was stalking her)
The cops killed her (0%)
The cops planted the key (90%)
The cops planted the bullet (80%)
The cops planted the car (80%)
The cops planted the blood in the car (80%)

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Did they ever find or claim to find the murder weapon?

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They don't know how she was murdered. The ballistics expert testified that they could not conclusively trace the [planted] bullet to his .22 gun that was found above his bed.

There are .22 gunshot wounds in her skull, but it is unknown if that is what killed her or if she was killed by another means and shot while in the fire.

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Steven Avery killed her (45%)
Any other Avery killed her (45%)
Her ex-boyfriend killed her (10%)
The cops killed her (0%)
The cops planted the key (99%)
The cops planted the bullet (90%)
The cops planted the car (80%)
The cops planted the blood in the car (80%)

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+1

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+2

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Did they ever find or claim to find the murder weapon?

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They don't know how she was murdered. The ballistics expert testified that they could not conclusively trace the [planted] bullet to his .22 gun that was found above his bed.

There are .22 gunshot wounds in her skull, but it is unknown if that is what killed her or if she was killed by another means and shot while in the fire.

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You sure they had a complete skull? I have never seen a picture of a skull in all the photos.

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Did they ever find or claim to find the murder weapon?

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They don't know how she was murdered. The ballistics expert testified that they could not conclusively trace the [planted] bullet to his .22 gun that was found above his bed.

There are .22 gunshot wounds in her skull, but it is unknown if that is what killed her or if she was killed by another means and shot while in the fire.

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You sure they had a complete skull? I have never seen a picture of a skull in all the photos.

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I never said they had a complete skull. As far as I know, they only found fragments.

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Steven Avery killed her (45%)
Any other Avery killed her (45%)
Her ex-boyfriend killed her (10%)
The cops killed her (0%)
The cops planted the key (99%)
The cops planted the bullet (90%)
The cops planted the car (80%)
The cops planted the blood in the car (80%)

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+1

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+2

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+3

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Did they ever find or claim to find the murder weapon?

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They don't know how she was murdered. The ballistics expert testified that they could not conclusively trace the [planted] bullet to his .22 gun that was found above his bed.

There are .22 gunshot wounds in her skull, but it is unknown if that is what killed her or if she was killed by another means and shot while in the fire.

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You sure they had a complete skull? I have never seen a picture of a skull in all the photos.

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I never said they had a complete skull. As far as I know, they only found fragments.

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The fragments I've seen are so small, I can't imagine being able to tell if they were shot or not:

In one of the episodes they showed the skull fragment that showed a bullet wound to the head. I think they also mentioned her body being shot 11 times, but not where.

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In one of the episodes they showed the skull fragment that showed a bullet wound to the head. I think they also mentioned her body being shot 11 times, but not where.

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The police found 11 shell casings that matched his gun around his garage. That's where the 11 comes from. I don't believe they found 11 wounds consistent with a .22 shot in her bones.

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Steven Avery killed her (45%)
Any other Avery killed her (45%)
Her ex-boyfriend killed her (10%)
The cops killed her (0%)
The cops planted the key (99%)
The cops planted the bullet (90%)
The cops planted the car (80%)
The cops planted the blood in the car (80%)

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+1

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+2

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+3

---

+4

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In one of the episodes they showed the skull fragment that showed a bullet wound to the head. I think they also mentioned her body being shot 11 times, but not where.

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You talking about the one with a curved edge on part of it? I don't buy that at all. It seems to me that that analysis was pulled from the same ass as her being shot 11 times.

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In one of the episodes they showed the skull fragment that showed a bullet wound to the head. I think they also mentioned her body being shot 11 times, but not where.

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You talking about the one with a curved edge on part of it? I don't buy that at all. It seems to me that that analysis was pulled from the same ass as her being shot 11 times.

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What I recall about the skull fragments was that certain breaks of the skull were "consistent with bullet wounds" but i don't recall that they ever established that the wounds were caused by a specific size bullet nor the number of wounds since body and bones had been scattered and burned. The number 11 came from the number of shell casings found in the garage.

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In one of the episodes they showed the skull fragment that showed a bullet wound to the head. I think they also mentioned her body being shot 11 times, but not where.

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You talking about the one with a curved edge on part of it? I don't buy that at all. It seems to me that that analysis was pulled from the same ass as her being shot 11 times.

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What I recall about the skull fragments was that certain breaks of the skull were "consistent with bullet wounds" but i don't recall that they ever established that the wounds were caused by a specific size bullet nor the number of wounds since body and bones had been scattered and burned. The number 11 came from the number of shell casings found in the garage.

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Yeah, the whole shooting thing is extremely sketchy. Especially given how there was no blood spatter anywhere in that messy garage.

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In one of the episodes they showed the skull fragment that showed a bullet wound to the head. I think they also mentioned her body being shot 11 times, but not where.

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You talking about the one with a curved edge on part of it? I don't buy that at all. It seems to me that that analysis was pulled from the same ass as her being shot 11 times.

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What I recall about the skull fragments was that certain breaks of the skull were "consistent with bullet wounds" but i don't recall that they ever established that the wounds were caused by a specific size bullet nor the number of wounds since body and bones had been scattered and burned. The number 11 came from the number of shell casings found in the garage.

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Yeah, the whole shooting thing is extremely sketchy. Especially given how there was no blood spatter anywhere in that messy garage.

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There was lots of blood spatter in the garage. It just all came from deer.

I think 0% chance she was ever inside that garage.

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In one of the episodes they showed the skull fragment that showed a bullet wound to the head. I think they also mentioned her body being shot 11 times, but not where.

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You talking about the one with a curved edge on part of it? I don't buy that at all. It seems to me that that analysis was pulled from the same ass as her being shot 11 times.

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What I recall about the skull fragments was that certain breaks of the skull were "consistent with bullet wounds" but i don't recall that they ever established that the wounds were caused by a specific size bullet nor the number of wounds since body and bones had been scattered and burned. The number 11 came from the number of shell casings found in the garage.

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And weren't all the casings found in one of the earlier searches and then Officer Shady found the bullet only after Brendan's ridiculous hour-long interview where they said "who shot her in the head?!?"???

I don't think she was in the garage either.

I'm wondering if that bullet could have ended up in the garage if fired from outside somehow. Like gone through her head and into the garage. Only way it makes sense to me that Avery did it (assuming no tampering by cops) would be if she was shot outside.

He would then have to have loaded her up in the RAV 4 to go dump her body before deciding to load her into a burn barrell and take her by truck to the quarry instead. He cuts his hand loading burn barrell into truck. Before he leaves for quarry he decides to go hide the Rav4 so be puts on gloves and drives out to ridge. Takes plates off. Takes gloves off, forgets to get key from ignition so he reaches in to get them, leaves blood smear, decides to check back of RAV 4 for any signs of her body body being in there and leaves additional blood marks. Walks back to his house, dropping plates into a car on the way.

Takes truck and barrell to the quarry. At the quarry he started to burn her in the barrell but it was taking too long, so he decides he needs to move it closer to his house so he can monitor the fire throughout the night. He uses shovel or something to put out the fire in the barrell and in doing some chips of bone break off.

He gets barrell loaded back up in truck, takes it to his fire pit and dumps it and makes bonfire. He then burns all her personal effects in burn barrell (and a few bone fragments remained). Somewhere along the line he tosses out all of her keys (maybe in a pond) keeping only the valet key with intention of crushing car at a later date.

How reasonable any of that is I suppose is up for debate, but that is the only way it really makes sense to me (again assuming he did it and police or others weren't planting evidence, which are both definitely debatable).

Looks like Jodi has some mean things to say about Steve

http://www.hlntv.com/shows/morning-express-robin-meade/articles/2016/01/13/steven-avery-ex-fiancee-exclusive-interview

His first wife went on to marry Barb's exhusband Mr Dassey - the father of the 3 Dassey boys. That is one of the craziest details in this whole thing. Your husband is in jail for rape, threatening you and your kids, so you pick his sister's ex as your next husband.

Lot of just really solid decision making and stand up citizens over there.

Edit: got Jodi mixed up with his first wife.

The Avery clan all had history of violence and threats against women, which is why they're my number one group of suspects