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I have been thinking that Steven probably did it but that the cops definitely planted evidence. But the more stuff like this I read, I'm beginning to lean more towards the opinion that Bobby Dassey and his stepdad(?) did it and then they and the cops planted evidence to frame Steven.

They had the motive and opportunity to kill Theresa and frame Steven. They have absolutely no alibi. In fact, if they just both said they didn't have an alibit, it would be more believable than them being each other's alibi. Not to mention the fact that their "alibis" are discredited by multiple people, including Bobby's own brother.

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What was their motive?

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What was Steven's Motive?

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To bang Halbach. She said no, and he killed her.

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The exact same motive could apply to any guy there including Avery's brothers, brother in law and nephews. It could also apply to her ex boyfriend.

We don't know that any advance was ever made my SA or any one else.

Thanks

Steven Avery answered the door wearing a towel during a previous visit making him a sexual predator who wanted to bang her...if you believe Kratz

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I have been thinking that Steven probably did it but that the cops definitely planted evidence. But the more stuff like this I read, I'm beginning to lean more towards the opinion that Bobby Dassey and his stepdad(?) did it and then they and the cops planted evidence to frame Steven.

They had the motive and opportunity to kill Theresa and frame Steven. They have absolutely no alibi. In fact, if they just both said they didn't have an alibit, it would be more believable than them being each other's alibi. Not to mention the fact that their "alibis" are discredited by multiple people, including Bobby's own brother.

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What was their motive?

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What was Steven's Motive?

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To bang Halbach. She said no, and he killed her.

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The exact same motive could apply to any guy there including Avery's brothers, brother in law and nephews. It could also apply to her ex boyfriend.

We don't know that any advance was ever made my SA or any one else.

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Which sounds like reasonable doubt.

I think the inability of the defense to be able to say the uncle was just as likely (and had a criminal background as well) really hurt the ability to show reasonable doubt.

Sounds like Steve-O got himself a new lawyer...

Kathleen Zellner

She was tweeting this at one point

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Steven Avery answered the door wearing a towel during a previous visit making him a sexual predator who wanted to bang her...if you believe Kratz

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And just because the Towel incident was brought up:

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Manitowoc County Circuit Judge Patrick Willis would not allow Dawn Pliszka, an Auto Trader receptionist at the time, to testify about one of Halbach's previous encounters with Avery.

"She had stated to me that he had come out in a towel,'' Pliszka said while the jury was outside of the courtroom. "I just said, 'Really?' and then she said, 'Yeah,' and laughed and said kinda 'Ew.'''
Willis said he could not allow the testimony because the date wasn't clear and few details were known about the alleged encounter.

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Doesn't seem like Teresa was all that creeped out or that Avery was inappropriate in any way.

Plus, she still went out to Avery's Salvage Yard later on her own. She must not have been that uncomfortable.

well...if there is anyone who could get a conviction overturned, it is definitely Zellner

To be fair, she could have been creeped out by the guy, and still chose to go out to Avery Salvage Yard after the towel incident. Plenty of women have had creeps act inappropriately and have to see them again in the course of doing their jobs.

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Steven Avery answered the door wearing a towel during a previous visit making him a sexual predator who wanted to bang her...if you believe Kratz

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And just because the Towel incident was brought up:

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Manitowoc County Circuit Judge Patrick Willis would not allow Dawn Pliszka, an Auto Trader receptionist at the time, to testify about one of Halbach's previous encounters with Avery.

"She had stated to me that he had come out in a towel,'' Pliszka said while the jury was outside of the courtroom. "I just said, 'Really?' and then she said, 'Yeah,' and laughed and said kinda 'Ew.'''
Willis said he could not allow the testimony because the date wasn't clear and few details were known about the alleged encounter.

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Doesn't seem like Teresa was all that creeped out or that Avery was inappropriate in any way.

Plus, she still went out to Avery's Salvage Yard later on her own. She must not have been that uncomfortable.

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That was separate from her asking her boss not to be sent back out to that location. And yes, she still went out there, but most people are non-confrontational on stuff like that. And she may not have even realized it was the same place until she was on the way because it was under a different name.

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Steven Avery answered the door wearing a towel during a previous visit making him a sexual predator who wanted to bang her...if you believe Kratz

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And just because the Towel incident was brought up:

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Manitowoc County Circuit Judge Patrick Willis would not allow Dawn Pliszka, an Auto Trader receptionist at the time, to testify about one of Halbach's previous encounters with Avery.

"She had stated to me that he had come out in a towel,'' Pliszka said while the jury was outside of the courtroom. "I just said, 'Really?' and then she said, 'Yeah,' and laughed and said kinda 'Ew.'''
Willis said he could not allow the testimony because the date wasn't clear and few details were known about the alleged encounter.

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Doesn't seem like Teresa was all that creeped out or that Avery was inappropriate in any way.

Plus, she still went out to Avery's Salvage Yard later on her own. She must not have been that uncomfortable.

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Yep. Willis didn't allow it, but Ken Kratz brought it up during recent interviews. Here we go again with arguments about bias...

McGill College of Law.

Couple articles on Zellner:

https://www.romper.com/p/who-are-steven-averys-new-defense-attorneys-3775

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3391648/She-s-supposed-really-really-good-Making-Murderer-Steven-Avery-s-mother-praises-son-s-new-Chicago-based-lawyer.html

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Steven Avery answered the door wearing a towel during a previous visit making him a sexual predator who wanted to bang her...if you believe Kratz

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And just because the Towel incident was brought up:

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Manitowoc County Circuit Judge Patrick Willis would not allow Dawn Pliszka, an Auto Trader receptionist at the time, to testify about one of Halbach's previous encounters with Avery.

"She had stated to me that he had come out in a towel,'' Pliszka said while the jury was outside of the courtroom. "I just said, 'Really?' and then she said, 'Yeah,' and laughed and said kinda 'Ew.'''
Willis said he could not allow the testimony because the date wasn't clear and few details were known about the alleged encounter.

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Doesn't seem like Teresa was all that creeped out or that Avery was inappropriate in any way.

Plus, she still went out to Avery's Salvage Yard later on her own. She must not have been that uncomfortable.

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That was separate from her asking her boss not to be sent back out to that location. And yes, she still went out there, but most people are non-confrontational on stuff like that. And she may not have even realized it was the same place until she was on the way because it was under a different name.

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She openly talked about it and her friend seemed to come away with the idea that she thought it was humorous, not creepy. Not like she was hiding anything about the incident. If she really felt like SA was rapey, I doubt she still would have gone back out there. She didn't have to be confrontational to go out there. Her boss just sends someone else.

This entire county has 80k people. There is no way that she didn't realize that the address on AVERY RD was not the AVERY Salvage Yard. SA was pretty famous in that area with the whole exoneration from rape after serving almost two decades.

There is a small town and a small area. I don't think there is any way she didn't know where she going, even though the car was in Barb's name.

I think you are way overstating her tone. People joke about embarrassing things all the time to minimize them to themselves and others. And it would obviously all be pure speculation, but I can think of several scenarios where she didn't want to go back out there, but did anyway.

The fact that they had some sort of relationship makes him exponentially more likely than Bobby and Scott.

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I have been thinking that Steven probably did it but that the cops definitely planted evidence. But the more stuff like this I read, I'm beginning to lean more towards the opinion that Bobby Dassey and his stepdad(?) did it and then they and the cops planted evidence to frame Steven.

They had the motive and opportunity to kill Theresa and frame Steven. They have absolutely no alibi. In fact, if they just both said they didn't have an alibit, it would be more believable than them being each other's alibi. Not to mention the fact that their "alibis" are discredited by multiple people, including Bobby's own brother.

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What was their motive?

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What was Steven's Motive?

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To bang Halbach. She said no, and he killed her.

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The exact same motive could apply to any guy there including Avery's brothers, brother in law and nephews. It could also apply to her ex boyfriend.

We don't know that any advance was ever made my SA or any one else.

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They didn't call her to his house. Steven did. That would make it much less likely.

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I have been thinking that Steven probably did it but that the cops definitely planted evidence. But the more stuff like this I read, I'm beginning to lean more towards the opinion that Bobby Dassey and his stepdad(?) did it and then they and the cops planted evidence to frame Steven.

They had the motive and opportunity to kill Theresa and frame Steven. They have absolutely no alibi. In fact, if they just both said they didn't have an alibit, it would be more believable than them being each other's alibi. Not to mention the fact that their "alibis" are discredited by multiple people, including Bobby's own brother.

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What was their motive?

---

What was Steven's Motive?

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To bang Halbach. She said no, and he killed her.

---

The exact same motive could apply to any guy there including Avery's brothers, brother in law and nephews. It could also apply to her ex boyfriend.

We don't know that any advance was ever made my SA or any one else.

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They didn't call her to his house. Steven did. That would make it much less likely.

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The minivan Theresa was there to photograph belonged to Scott's wife/Bobby's mom. They could have easily been the driving force behind getting SA to call AutoTrader to get her to come out.

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I have been thinking that Steven probably did it but that the cops definitely planted evidence. But the more stuff like this I read, I'm beginning to lean more towards the opinion that Bobby Dassey and his stepdad(?) did it and then they and the cops planted evidence to frame Steven.

They had the motive and opportunity to kill Theresa and frame Steven. They have absolutely no alibi. In fact, if they just both said they didn't have an alibit, it would be more believable than them being each other's alibi. Not to mention the fact that their "alibis" are discredited by multiple people, including Bobby's own brother.

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What was their motive?

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What was Steven's Motive?

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To bang Halbach. She said no, and he killed her.

---

The exact same motive could apply to any guy there including Avery's brothers, brother in law and nephews. It could also apply to her ex boyfriend.

We don't know that any advance was ever made my SA or any one else.

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They didn't call her to his house. Steven did. That would make it much less likely.

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The minivan Theresa was there to photograph belonged to Scott's wife/Bobby's mom. They could have easily been the driving force behind getting SA to call AutoTrader to get her to come out.

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Then why didn't they call her?

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I have been thinking that Steven probably did it but that the cops definitely planted evidence. But the more stuff like this I read, I'm beginning to lean more towards the opinion that Bobby Dassey and his stepdad(?) did it and then they and the cops planted evidence to frame Steven.

They had the motive and opportunity to kill Theresa and frame Steven. They have absolutely no alibi. In fact, if they just both said they didn't have an alibit, it would be more believable than them being each other's alibi. Not to mention the fact that their "alibis" are discredited by multiple people, including Bobby's own brother.

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What was their motive?

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What was Steven's Motive?

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To bang Halbach. She said no, and he killed her.

---

The exact same motive could apply to any guy there including Avery's brothers, brother in law and nephews. It could also apply to her ex boyfriend.

We don't know that any advance was ever made my SA or any one else.

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They didn't call her to his house. Steven did. That would make it much less likely.

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The minivan Theresa was there to photograph belonged to Scott's wife/Bobby's mom. They could have easily been the driving force behind getting SA to call AutoTrader to get her to come out.

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Then why didn't they call her?

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Because they wanted to rape and kill her and put the bones behind Avery's house. So they got their stupid mom/wife to get the stupid guy the police hated to call and ask for the cute girl.

If you are planning the rape/murder of someone, are you going to get on the record calling a third person to get that person to come to your house?

What's the source for that information that the documentary left out that helps the defense? I'd like to link it to someone.

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Because they wanted to rape and kill her and put the bones behind Avery's house. So they got their stupid mom/wife to get the stupid guy the police hated to call and ask for the cute girl.

If you are planning the rape/murder of someone, are you going to get on the record calling a third person to get that person to come to your house?

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Wow.. you are really stretching. So they hatch this complicated plan merely to get back at Steve Avery? Or to kill this particular girl? Or to kill any girl? That's a lot of risk, don't you think? All it takes is for Steve to tell them on the phone, that "My brother asked me to ask for that girl to take a picture of his car" and their plan is blown. Or to have somebody else in the family witness it, for them to leave some of their DNA in the car, have some of her DNA left on them, etc. If Steve called her on his behalf, wouldn't he tell her, "oh.. you probably meant to talk to my brother, he lives over there." rather than host her himself? What did they do with the car between the time they killed her, and planted it on the property? What if somebody found it? How could they count on the police planting evidence against Steve Avery? Common sense would dictate that they would investigate it legit which would put them at considerable risk.

Also, didn't Avery say he saw her drive away? did Bobby and Scott track her down?

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Because they wanted to rape and kill her and put the bones behind Avery's house. So they got their stupid mom/wife to get the stupid guy the police hated to call and ask for the cute girl.

If you are planning the rape/murder of someone, are you going to get on the record calling a third person to get that person to come to your house?

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Wow.. you are really stretching. So they hatch this complicated plan merely to get back at Steve Avery? Or to kill this particular girl? Or to kill any girl? That's a lot of risk, don't you think? All it takes is for Steve to tell them on the phone, that "My brother asked me to ask for that girl to take a picture of his car" and their plan is blown. Or to have somebody else in the family witness it, for them to leave some of their DNA in the car, have some of her DNA left on them, etc. If Steve called her on his behalf, wouldn't he tell her, "oh.. you probably meant to talk to my brother, he lives over there." rather than host her himself? What did they do with the car between the time they killed her, and planted it on the property? What if somebody found it? How could they count on the police planting evidence against Steve Avery? Common sense would dictate that they would investigate it legit which would put them at considerable risk.

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I don't think it is that complicated.

"Hey Barb - let's get that minivan we don't use out of the yard. Get Steve to sell it on AutoTrader."
"Yeah"
"Yeah"
"Yeah"

I don't think Scott and Bobby are smart enough to plant evidence other than burning and moving the bones.

Scott was supposed to be at work when she came. It would make sense for Steve to be the one to get the sell sheet from her, especially since he had sold multiple cars through autotrader and worked full time at the junkyard.

I think Clarke95 is right and it was probably a crime of opportunity.

But I find it less plausible that the guy standing to make dozens of millions of dollars would commit that crime after calling and specifically asking a third party witness for the victim to come to his house.

And judging by the new lawyer's tweets, I think they seem to suspect the ex-boyfriend that broke into Teresa's voicemail and erased the VMs. I forgot where I read it, but the last call she received when we know she was alive had some code associated with it that made it look like she blocked the caller. I don't know if I can verify that.

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What's the source for that information that the documentary left out that helps the defense? I'd like to link it to someone.

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They are gathering and citing evidence here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/40dquo/prodefense_information_that_was_left_out_of_mam/

There is a lot more than what I listed.

Has Steve Avery's side given an explanation for why he called Theresa the 3rd time, after he claims she had already left?

Have they given an explanation for that nasty cut on his finger?

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Has Steve Avery's side given an explanation for why he called Theresa the 3rd time, after he claims she had already left?

Have they given an explanation for that nasty cut on his finger?

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That 3rd call was like 8 13 seconds long. Maybe he hit redial. I've never seen an official explanation for any call.

Edit: Here is the phone log:




The man works in a junkyard. He crushed cars and smelted metal. I'm sure he regularly had cuts like that on his hands. I've got one on my hand right now. I've not committed any crime you can prove recently.

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I'm sure he regularly had cuts like that on his hands. I've got one on my hand right now. I've not committed any crime you can prove recently.

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Ken Kratz is outside your window breathing heavily and leaning his corpulent torso against your azalea bushes.

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Probably because my wife is hot.

dude, dial it back a notch. I wasn't pointing to those things as key pieces of evidence that he did it. Just wondering if there has ever been an explanation.

Looks like her Rav4 was found Nov 4 or 5.

Doesn't look like Avery was arrested until Nov. 9 and at that time investigators photographed the wound and made note of it.

So, is the theory about his blood being planted in her car that it was planted after Nov.9 when the police became aware that he had the cut, or that they just took a shot in the dark and figured he might be bleeding so they went ahead and planted the blood when they planted the car?

When was the blood supposedly found in the car? Out at the Avery place or after it was taken into policy custody?


NOTE: I do not know the answers to these, some of you guys, especially Guitarsoup obviously know a lot about the case so its easier to ask here than it is for me to google it. I am not trying to prove up one side or the other. Just asking for my own curiosity.

Blood was found in the car on Nov 5th. Nov 3rd was the time the police called in the plates to the car, then said they were not in it. But that it was a Toyota. But they totally didn't see the car and were not in its presence.

I'm positive that Avery had talked to police prior to that. I think he had been interviewed on TV while she was missing since he was the last known person to talk to her.

Last seen Oct 31, plates called in by Colburn on Nov 3 (same day she was reported missing), car found on the Avery lot Nov 5.

It is odd that the call is on the same day she was reported missing. Maybe the cops had noticed the car on the side of the road the last couple of days and went there when the call about the missing person came in? Maybe it had already been impounded (there would certainly be record of that), maybe Colburn immediately suspected Avery and illegally was searching his lot and found it?

As slimey as I think Colburn is, I tend to believe his story on the car. That someone told him to look for the plates on a '99 Rav 4 and he called dispatch to confirm. The car is very odd though.

No matter what, it seems weird to find the car on the first day.

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I have been thinking that Steven probably did it but that the cops definitely planted evidence. But the more stuff like this I read, I'm beginning to lean more towards the opinion that Bobby Dassey and his stepdad(?) did it and then they and the cops planted evidence to frame Steven.

They had the motive and opportunity to kill Theresa and frame Steven. They have absolutely no alibi. In fact, if they just both said they didn't have an alibit, it would be more believable than them being each other's alibi. Not to mention the fact that their "alibis" are discredited by multiple people, including Bobby's own brother.

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What was their motive?

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What was Steven's motive? At the least, they had the same motive. But I think they actually had more motive than Steven, given the fact that they apparently hated him and were thrilled when he was locked away.

It's shocking to me that the judge could rule that the defense couldn't refer to other suspects, apparently because the other suspects didn't have motive, when the prosecution never even suggested what Steven's motive was.

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Last seen Oct 31, plates called in by Colburn on Nov 3 (same day she was reported missing), car found on the Avery lot Nov 5.

It is odd that the call is on the same day she was reported missing. Maybe the cops had noticed the car on the side of the road the last couple of days and went there when the call about the missing person came in? Maybe it had already been impounded (there would certainly be record of that), maybe Colburn immediately suspected Avery and illegally was searching his lot and found it?

As slimey as I think Colburn is, I tend to believe his story on the car. That someone told him to look for the plates on a '99 Rav 4 and he called dispatch to confirm. The car is very odd though.

No matter what, it seems weird to find the car on the first day.

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I think the murder site was the quarry where her bones were found and that police found the RAV4 there on the 3rd. I think whoever killed her (be it Steven, Scott, the ex or one or more of the Avery clan) did so shortly after she left the minivan.

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Because they wanted to rape and kill her and put the bones behind Avery's house. So they got their stupid mom/wife to get the stupid guy the police hated to call and ask for the cute girl.

If you are planning the rape/murder of someone, are you going to get on the record calling a third person to get that person to come to your house?

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Wow.. you are really stretching. So they hatch this complicated plan merely to get back at Steve Avery? Or to kill this particular girl? Or to kill any girl? That's a lot of risk, don't you think? All it takes is for Steve to tell them on the phone, that "My brother asked me to ask for that girl to take a picture of his car" and their plan is blown. Or to have somebody else in the family witness it, for them to leave some of their DNA in the car, have some of her DNA left on them, etc. If Steve called her on his behalf, wouldn't he tell her, "oh.. you probably meant to talk to my brother, he lives over there." rather than host her himself? What did they do with the car between the time they killed her, and planted it on the property? What if somebody found it? How could they count on the police planting evidence against Steve Avery? Common sense would dictate that they would investigate it legit which would put them at considerable risk.

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I don't think it is that complicated.

"Hey Barb - let's get that minivan we don't use out of the yard. Get Steve to sell it on AutoTrader."
"Yeah"
"Yeah"
"Yeah"

I don't think Scott and Bobby are smart enough to plant evidence other than burning and moving the bones.

Scott was supposed to be at work when she came. It would make sense for Steve to be the one to get the sell sheet from her, especially since he had sold multiple cars through autotrader and worked full time at the junkyard.

I think Clarke95 is right and it was probably a crime of opportunity.

But I find it less plausible that the guy standing to make dozens of millions of dollars would commit that crime after calling and specifically asking a third party witness for the victim to come to his house.

And judging by the new lawyer's tweets, I think they seem to suspect the ex-boyfriend that broke into Teresa's voicemail and erased the VMs. I forgot where I read it, but the last call she received when we know she was alive had some code associated with it that made it look like she blocked the caller. I don't know if I can verify that.

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It makes absolutely zero sense. The family is full of dumbasses. For you to be right, they would have to be masterminds.