That is a good point. I never noticed that- where is her house key? That wouldn't be the key she'd be driving around with.

Conspiracy theory: the cops got that key from the roommate to plant it and help their case along.

He still could have towed it because maybe he was in a separate vehicle or he just didn't want to get in the Rav 4.

I'm confident the key was planted and I certainly think they could have gotten it from the brother or the ex-boyfriend. But if the cops had the key, why/ how would they tow the car?

I think the car is by far the least likely piece of evidence to have been planted. I think it's more likely that they found it where it was before the search party and then just told the search party where to look.

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

In summary, Avery was smart enough to scrub his garage of every trace of a murder except for one bullet, spread the remains over three burn areas, but not smart enough to see $36 million staring him in the face.

---

He scrubbed the garage completely clean, except for his own DNA and deer blood, both of which were found all over the garage.

He somehow selectively only cleaned out her DNA, while leaving the entire garage to look like an absolute pigsty.

---

He didn't murder her on his property. Had to be somewhere else.

---

Then the bullet with her DNA in the garage was planted

quote:

---

That is a good point. I never noticed that- where is her house key? That wouldn't be the key she'd be driving around with.

Conspiracy theory: the cops got that key from the roommate to plant it and help their case along.

---

It looks like a spare key and not the primary key

Curious about everyone's confidence levels/ odds on the different points.

Steven Avery killed her (75 - 80%)
Scott and Bobby killed her (10 - 15%)
Her ex-boyfriend killed her (0%)
The cops killed her (0%)
The cops planted the key (99%)
The cops planted the bullet (90%)
The cops planted the car (30%)
The cops planted the blood in the car (60%)

Cops tow the car even though they have the key because they don't want their hair/fibers/DNA inside the car before it was "found."

Clearly, Avery could have towed the car. But I think someone else drove it, considering her bloody hairprint was in the back of the car. Someone knocked her out or killed her, then moved the car with her in the back. If Avery was going to move the car, why not just drive it, considering it was found on his lot with his blood in it. He isn't too concerned about evidence in that scenario.

Is this the smelter?

By "back of the car" I have always assumed they meant the cargo space in the back rather than the backseat, but you can't even open the cargo door with the valet key, can you?

quote:

---

By "back of the car" I have always assumed they meant the cargo space in the back rather than the backseat, but you can't even open the cargo door with the valet key, can you?

---

I think the Rav4 valet key opens everything but the glovebox.

OK, thanks, I fugured it might be a little difference since it's not completely separate like a car trunk

quote:

---

Curious about everyone's confidence levels/ odds on the different points.

Steven Avery killed her (75 - 80%)
Scott and Bobby killed her (10 - 15%)
Her ex-boyfriend killed her (0%)
The cops killed her (0%)
The cops planted the key (99%)
The cops planted the bullet (90%)
The cops planted the car (30%)

---

Killer:
Avery: 35%
The Field of people living on the Avery property: 35%
ExBF: 15%
Police: 0%
The Field (the German, some random serial killer, roommate, brother, etc): 5%

Brendan involved: 5%

Cops planted the key (100%)
Cops planted the bullet (99%)
Cops planted the blood in the Rav4 (80%)
Cops found the Rav4 on Nov 3rd and moved it (90%)

Looks like that is the"Sub key". Maybe Avery hid the car, threw the keys into the forest (or destroyed them) and so the cops planted the sub key in his house.



Picture of key for reference:

Steven Avery killed her (65%)
The Field of people living on the Avery property: 35%
Her ex-boyfriend killed her (0%)
The cops killed her (0%)
The cops planted the key (99%)
The cops planted the bullet (99%)
The cops planted the car (10%)
The cops planted the blood in the car (80%)

That the key was the spare key/valet key makes the "discovery" of the key by the sheriffs even more suspicious. Holy crap.

I think the killer dumped the car on the Avery lot and dumped the keys somewhere. The cops planted her spare key in Avery's trailer.




edited for Soup's "the field" category

For me it's:

Steven Avery killed her (99%)
Scott and Bobby killed her (1%)
Her ex-boyfriend killed her (0%)
The cops killed her (0%)
The cops planted the key (99%)
The cops planted the bullet (90%)
The cops planted the car (90%) (Otherwise why would Culborn call in the plates prior)

I think whoever killed her, did so at the quarry which was also the initial burn site. I think the RAV4 was left there.

Also, remember that the local competing salvage yard is owned by county Sheriff Robert Hermann. So they had easy access to a tow truck as well.

I added:

Brendan was involved: 5%

I don't think Brendan was involved at all. Just really unfortunate simple boy.

My feelings on whodunit...

Steven < 30%
Someone else on Avery property 40% (in order of suspicion - Tadych, Bobby, Chuck...)
Ex-boyfriend 25%
Someone not seen in the documentary <5%
Cops ~0%

I also suspect about 95% of the physical evidence was either tampered with or placed by family or cops.

I am kind of wondering why anyone would bother to hold onto the key for that car unless you plan to move it later an are afraid someone else might move it (steal it) without you knowing. For SA to hold onto the key after going to all that trouble to hide the other evidence was incredibly stupid. Just leave the damn key in the car.

Because maybe he didn't have anything to do with the key?

I think we're all missing the most obvious suspect. The person(s) that benefits the most from Avery being framed for a crime he didn't commit...


The producers of the documentary!

I revise my answer.

Netflix > 50%

quote:

---

Because maybe he didn't have anything to do with the key?

---

The car was parked next to a pond. If Avery parked it, why not throw the key in the water or the tall grass around there. That's an infinitely better idea than putting it in your bedroom.

quote:

---

quote:

---

Because maybe he didn't have anything to do with the key?

---

The car was parked next to a pond. If Avery parked it, why not throw the key in the water or the tall grass around there. That's an infinitely better idea than putting it in your bedroom.

---

She probably used her real keys with the house key and everything else on it. Avery hid the car off of his property somewhere with those keys, and threw them somewhere. Lenk or Coburn found the car wherever he hid it, but did not have the personal resources/time to search for those keys, and they couldn't tell the honest cops that they found the car elsewhere. So while they planted blood in the car, they found her valet key stashed in the car. They kept that key and had the car towed to Avery's lot. Later they planted that single key in Avery's house.

Remember, I think Steve Avery did it AND that the police planted evidence to make sure he got nailed for it.

quote:

---

quote:

---

Because maybe he didn't have anything to do with the key?

---

The car was parked next to a pond. If Avery parked it, why not throw the key in the water or the tall grass around there. That's an infinitely better idea than putting it in your bedroom.

---

Maybe he kept the key because he was going to need it to drive the jeep into the crusher. Maybe that's why he didn't clean the jeep up either--he intended to crush the jeep, but just wasn't able to get a chance to do it in a nonsuspcious way.

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

Because maybe he didn't have anything to do with the key?

---

The car was parked next to a pond. If Avery parked it, why not throw the key in the water or the tall grass around there. That's an infinitely better idea than putting it in your bedroom.

---

Maybe he kept the key because he was going to need it to drive the jeep into the crusher. Maybe that's why he didn't clean the jeep up either--he intended to crush the jeep, but just wasn't able to get a chance to do it in a nonsuspcious way.

---

It wasn't parked far from the crusher and he had three days to crush it before she was reported missing. He use the crusher during the time between she was reported missing and when she actually disappeared. Also he had tow trucks

Also, if the cops were going to plant her car on the Avery property, why go through the trouble of removing the plates and hiding them elsewhere. Seems pointless.

The plates being removed and hidden elsewhere suggest to me that someone who isn't all that bright thought that would make he car unidentifiable.

quote:

---

Also, if the cops were going to plant her car on the Avery property, why go through the trouble of removing the plates and hiding them elsewhere. Seems pointless.

The plates being removed and hidden elsewhere suggest to me that someone who isn't all that bright thought that would make he car unidentifiable.

---

The car was also more in the middle of the road then hidden between cars. It was more or less double parked, so it stuck out. I think whoever left the car there wanted it to be seen.

Has a timeline of all the events and when evidence found ever been put together? I'm having a hard time trying to remember what happened when.

I feel like it would put a lot of things into perspective.

Avery's fancy new attorneys filed a bunch of motions yesterday, including asking for his release on bond.

Apparently there is quite a bit of evidence not shown in the series that helps Steve's case:

• Dean Strang recalled that one of the investigators involved in finding DNA under the hood of Halbach's car admitted to not changing gloves after handling evidence inside her car. [source]
• Culhane testified that the amount of Avery's DNA on Halbach's hood latch (which could have been blood) was very small, similar to what you would get from rubbing Avery's toothbrush on it, or from the unchanged gloves of the tech who handled blood evidence inside the car and then touched the hood. [source]
• Blaine Dassey testified that his brother, Bobby, was asleep when he got home from school around 3:40 p.m., contradicting Bobby's testimony that he got up at 2:30 p.m. and saw Teresa headed toward Steven's trailer. [source]
• Dean Strang stated they had a forensic anthropologist at trial who testified that an open fire wouldn't have generated enough heat to burn a body in the way that those bones were destroyed, but it didn't make the documentary. [source]
• In between 3:30 and 4 p.m., a propane delivery truck driver (John Leurquin) saw a green SUV leaving the Avery property but couldn't identify the driver or if it was a male or female. He delivers propane for Valders Co-op. Usually fuels up near Avery property at 3:30 for about half an hour. [source]
• Teresa Halbach's clothing: "Police said she was wearing blue jeans, a white button-down shirt and a summer jacket when she was last seen. Schmitz would indicate that Halbach was at his residence at approximately 1:30 p.m. Was there for approximately 10 minutes. Was wearing a white shirt, waistwaist-length jacket, and blue jeans. (Day 4 of Dassey Trial.) Zipperer would indicate that Halbach was at her residence between approximately 2 to 2:30 p.m. Was there for approximately 10 minutes. Was wearing a white top, waist-length jacket, and blue jeans. (Day 4 of Dassey Trial.) Bobby Dassey said when he saw Teresa Halbach photographing the van Avery was selling October 31, 2005, she was wearing a knee-length coat and slacks." [source 1, 2]
• William Newhouse, a gun expert with the Wisconsin State Crime Lab, said he couldn't conclusively link a bullet found in a crack in Avery's garage to a .22-caliber rifle seized from his bedroom. (He could only confirm that it was definitely a bullet from a .22 caliber rifle.) There was no DNA on the gun, no blood blow-back that you'd get from shooting someone at that close range and no blood mist/spatter around the garage that would also be present had someone been shot in the garage. [source]
• On the "Kelly Files" interview, Dean Strang mentioned that there were little drops off deer blood all over Avery's garage, essentially debunking the theory that they could have cleaned all the blood evidence out of the garage, since had they cleaned it that thoroughly, there wouldn't have been any deer blood. [source]
• On the leg irons/handcuffs from Avery's house: They tested those for DNA and found a mixture of DNA from two or more people. They confirmed Avery to be a source of one of the matches. Most importantly, they excluded Teresa's DNA as a match. [source]
• Investigators never dusted the Toyota key (with Steven's DNA) for fingerprints. [source]

Link to original article: http://www.avclub.com/article/read-pro-steven-avery-list-what-was-left-out-makin-230634

quote:

---

Also, if the cops were going to plant her car on the Avery property, why go through the trouble of removing the plates and hiding them elsewhere. Seems pointless.

The plates being removed and hidden elsewhere suggest to me that someone who isn't all that bright thought that would make he car unidentifiable.

---

The cops did something shady with the car. There is no doubt in my mind, since Colburn made that call about the plates before it was officially found.

So if I'm them, and I am going to plant blood inside (that I don't have on me yet), I would drive it to a secure place first. But I wouldn't want to drive anywhere in a car of a known missing person. So I would at least put new plates on it beforehand. So they put new plates on it, drive it somewhere remote or secure, and leave it there. Then they go get a sample of Avery's blood, come back, and plant it in the car. Then they got to take the plates off, because they can't leave the car at the Avery lot with bogus plates (that might trace back to them). But they don't want to put the old plates back on and get seen towing that car back to Avery's lot. So they just leave the plates off and tow it back that way. Then why bother putting them back on at his property in the middle of the night? The more time they are there fiddling with the car, the more likely they are to get caught or seen. So they quickly do an intentionally half assed job of covering the car and scurry off. Seems like a reasonable explanation to me.


Another thing shady about the blood inside the car:

How does one leave a stain like that with a cut like this:

while leaving no smudge mark, smear, fingerprint, drip marks down, or anything?

To me, that stain looks more like somebody took a hypodermic needle full of blood and tried to plant it without touching or scratching the surface, so that it doesn't look like it came from a needle. It looks more like writing from a red magic market than a random blood smear from somebody bleeding enough for it to drip out.

quote:

---

Another thing shady about the blood inside the car:

How does one leave a stain like that with a cut like this:

while leaving no smudge mark, smear, fingerprint, drip marks down, or anything?

To me, that stain looks more like somebody took a hypodermic needle full of blood and tried to plant it without touching or scratching the surface, so that it doesn't look like it came from a needle. It looks more like writing from a red magic market than a random blood smear from somebody bleeding enough for it to drip out.

---

The two dark, circular spots at the bottom left of the stain make it look like a cotton swab to me.

quote:

---

quote:

---

Another thing shady about the blood inside the car:

How does one leave a stain like that with a cut like this:

while leaving no smudge mark, smear, fingerprint, drip marks down, or anything?

To me, that stain looks more like somebody took a hypodermic needle full of blood and tried to plant it without touching or scratching the surface, so that it doesn't look like it came from a needle. It looks more like writing from a red magic market than a random blood smear from somebody bleeding enough for it to drip out.

---

The two dark, circular spots at the bottom left of the stain make it look like a cotton swab to me.

---

Actually, I think you are right. Looks like two swipes one on the left that is swiped up, then another next to it that is swiped right. It doesn't look anything like a smudge made by a cut on the side of a finger.