Technically Scarif
*** STAR WARS: ANDOR *** (Disney+)
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Last: 4 mo ago by ABATTBQ11
The first target was going to be a rebel base, but the psychopath cared more about making an example. As far as we know, Leia has been the one stirring things up over the the years preceding A New Hope. Unless Bail did something to personally embarrass Tarkin, I lean more toward him making a snap decision to destroy the planet than it being a long term plan.The Porkchop Express said:So what was the first target going to be instead of Alderaan?ABATTBQ11 said:The Porkchop Express said:How do you know?ABATTBQ11 said:The Porkchop Express said:
Bail Organa will need to stir the pot pretty hard in the next 5 years to justify the use of the Death Star on Alderaan
Why? That was 100% to force Leia to talk and sow fear throughout the empire. It's not like Alderaan was always going to be the first target.
Because I've seen A New Hope
Obviously, there is room for Disney/Lucasfilm to write more reasons.
I wonder if we will see a base on Dantooine in Andor
DubFalls said:
Technically Scarif
Jedha?
Life is better with a beagle
Yeah Jedha was first right, just with a half blast?The Porkchop Express said:DubFalls said:
Technically Scarif
Jedha?
Well, in Rogue One they fired a single reactor blast at Scarif.
But yeah, I guess Jedha was first.
I love the show solely because I'm not sitting around waiting for the next Easter egg to show up like I did with the Mandalorian or book of Boba Fett.
This show stands completely on its own and it's awesome.
This show stands completely on its own and it's awesome.
Jedha was only a test
The Porkchop Express said:So what was the first target going to be instead of Alderaan?ABATTBQ11 said:The Porkchop Express said:How do you know?ABATTBQ11 said:The Porkchop Express said:
Bail Organa will need to stir the pot pretty hard in the next 5 years to justify the use of the Death Star on Alderaan
Why? That was 100% to force Leia to talk and sow fear throughout the empire. It's not like Alderaan was always going to be the first target.
Because I've seen A New Hope
Dunno, but they weren't heading for Alderaan because Tarkin told them to set a course there.
The idea that Alderaan was always going to be first is ex post facto reasoning stemming from the fact it WAS first. There's nothing beyond speculation to support the idea, but it's a plot point in ANH that it was picked because of Leia. We also know that Leia got the plans almost immediately after the Death Star was completed and initially tested because of Rogue One, and she was chased to Tatooine and caught by Vader almost immediately. It would need to be pretty coincidental for Leia to get the plans and Tarkin to choose Alderaan as an interrogation technique if it was always Alderaan anyway.
good call. In season 2 I'd think we'd almost have to, right? Or at least it'll be referencedredline248 said:
I wonder if we will see a base on Dantooine in Andor
Article I read, Gilroy mentioned there are no writers on set because the scripts are done and final. Apparently that's not at all the norm?
It varies, but yeah, there's usually a writer on most sets.
Bingo.
The point I'm trying to make is that you don't build a planet-killer battle station in secret unless you already have a list of potential targets to use it on - whether that's because their planetary military could put up a real fight against your fleet or because it's a planet full of really strong politicians with a lot of pull and influence around the galaxy that could give you a whole lot of trouble, or perhaps already has, as you increase your power more and more.ABATTBQ11 said:The Porkchop Express said:So what was the first target going to be instead of Alderaan?ABATTBQ11 said:The Porkchop Express said:How do you know?ABATTBQ11 said:The Porkchop Express said:
Bail Organa will need to stir the pot pretty hard in the next 5 years to justify the use of the Death Star on Alderaan
Why? That was 100% to force Leia to talk and sow fear throughout the empire. It's not like Alderaan was always going to be the first target.
Because I've seen A New Hope
Dunno, but they weren't heading for Alderaan because Tarkin told them to set a course there.
The idea that Alderaan was always going to be first is ex post facto reasoning stemming from the fact it WAS first. There's nothing beyond speculation to support the idea, but it's a plot point in ANH that it was picked because of Leia. We also know that Leia got the plans almost immediately after the Death Star was completed and initially tested because of Rogue One, and she was chased to Tatooine and caught by Vader almost immediately. It would need to be pretty coincidental for Leia to get the plans and Tarkin to choose Alderaan as an interrogation technique if it was always Alderaan anyway.
The US didn't make the A-bomb to win a science fair, they made it to target specific cities in a war.
Alderaan is cast time and again in literature as being this great society of thinkers, scholars, and peace-keepers. That would be a major threat to Palpatine's regime and would have it on a short list of planets that would need to be wiped out completely. I think Season 2 of Andor, particularly the time jumps, will show a lot of Bail Organa being a thorn in the side of the Empire, making Tarkin's decision a lot more pre-meditated than murdering 2 billion people because somebody lied to you.
Life is better with a beagle
I think you're wrong about this...the Death Star is clearly being planned by Palpatine before he even declares himself Emperor...already has full schematics at the end of Episode 3. Why would Alderaan be a threat to him at that point? Not a separatist planet, has no army...Padme/Naboo are a bigger political obstacle for Palpatine's expansion of power during that time.
edit: also, Tarkin made the call to wipe out Alderaan before he knew Leia lied.
edit: also, Tarkin made the call to wipe out Alderaan before he knew Leia lied.
The edit is key here.redline248 said:
I think you're wrong about this...the Death Star is clearly being planned by Palpatine before he even declares himself Emperor...already has full schematics at the end of Episode 3. Why would Alderaan be a threat to him at that point? Not a separatist planet, has no army...Padme/Naboo are a bigger political obstacle for Palpatine's expansion of power during that time.
edit: also, Tarkin made the call to wipe out Alderaan before he knew Leia lied.
They do **** like explode planets because they can.
It was the end of Episode II but your point remains valid.redline248 said:
I think you're wrong about this...the Death Star is clearly being planned by Palpatine before he even declares himself Emperor...already has full schematics at the end of Episode 3. Why would Alderaan be a threat to him at that point? Not a separatist planet, has no army...Padme/Naboo are a bigger political obstacle for Palpatine's expansion of power during that time.
edit: also, Tarkin made the call to wipe out Alderaan before he knew Leia lied.
We all forget things. I know Porkchop knows ANH well enough and made a mistake about the Tarkin/Leia lying thing
I"m just speculating that Alderaan was already on a list of planets that were going to get nuked by the Death Star as soon as there was a good enough reason to do so and that I would be surprised if Bail Organa is not a player in Season 2 of Andor, particularly given the time jumps.redline248 said:
We all forget things. I know Porkchop knows ANH well enough and made a mistake about the Tarkin/Leia lying thing
Life is better with a beagle
They definitely had it in the back of their minds, given how they have behaved on screen. Probably somethign like, once they realized the Death Star could cause mass destruction, Tarkin for sure had a couple planets he was like "definitley blowing these jagoffs up, pain in my ass in senate"The Porkchop Express said:I"m just speculating that Alderaan was already on a list of planets that were going to get nuked by the Death Star as soon as there was a good enough reason to do so and that I would be surprised if Bail Organa is not a player in Season 2 of Andor, particularly given the time jumps.redline248 said:
We all forget things. I know Porkchop knows ANH well enough and made a mistake about the Tarkin/Leia lying thing
Also, thats a good point about season 2. I had mostly been considering Season 1 when it came to well known characters making an appearance, and imo didn't really think they would make sense.
Season 2, however, could make a lot of sense
Redline already addressed most of this, but...
Fission was discovered in 1938. Months later, after the implications were realized, Einstein and some colleagues sent a letter to FDR warning him that the Germans could attempt to build an A-Bomb. FDR started a civilian committee that looked into the feasibility, and once the British figured it was on fact possible and started merging their research with ours because they were already at war, it was reorganized to do research into actually designing and building a bomb. Some of the members thought the research pace was too slow and they lacked resources, so they turned to the army, which started the Manhattan project.
That said, the research was already started before Pearl Harbor. There was certainly a strong chance we ended up in the war, but no guarantee. Yet, we were still looking at developing the bomb. We didn't even know if we'd ever use it, but we did anyway.
Why would Palpatine design and build the Death Star? Because it offered power, and that was his sole motivation. It was a mortal threat to any planet that dared challenge him and the empire he was looking to create.
Fission was discovered in 1938. Months later, after the implications were realized, Einstein and some colleagues sent a letter to FDR warning him that the Germans could attempt to build an A-Bomb. FDR started a civilian committee that looked into the feasibility, and once the British figured it was on fact possible and started merging their research with ours because they were already at war, it was reorganized to do research into actually designing and building a bomb. Some of the members thought the research pace was too slow and they lacked resources, so they turned to the army, which started the Manhattan project.
That said, the research was already started before Pearl Harbor. There was certainly a strong chance we ended up in the war, but no guarantee. Yet, we were still looking at developing the bomb. We didn't even know if we'd ever use it, but we did anyway.
Why would Palpatine design and build the Death Star? Because it offered power, and that was his sole motivation. It was a mortal threat to any planet that dared challenge him and the empire he was looking to create.
Now I'm going to be disappointed if any of this isn't in Oppenheimer.
I'm not sure. I don't know if Oppenheimer was involved in any of the original committee work. IIRC he was brought in at the outset of the Manhattan project and tabbed to lead it by Groves because he had the best grasp of the practical necessities for building a bomb. He knew a lot about a lot, and Groves thought it was important for something that would involve a lot of fields.
Once fission was discovered, it set off shockwaves in physics. The Germans who discovered it weren't sure what they were looking at for awhile because it didn't make sense with how the world was understood. When they realized what they were seeing, and published their work, it was huge. Then the world's great minds thought about the implications and all sorts of ideas opened up, nuclear power and the bomb being among them. Germany was indeed trying to build a bomb, but they lacked the scale of resources America had to devote to it. They also deported, forced out, or killed a lot of Jewish scientists who would have been key contributors, so they were faced with a brain drain. IIRC they also overestimated the amount of uranium required by an order of magnitude and determined it was infeasible, but that may have been Heisenberg sabotaging the program. No one really knows. Heisenberg DID understand all of the basic mechanics and design theory though. He gave a secret talk to German scientists in British captivity after the war that detailed a lot of the mechanisms/design choices necessary for a bomb to function. Some later said that he'd never mentioned any of it during the research during the war.
Once fission was discovered, it set off shockwaves in physics. The Germans who discovered it weren't sure what they were looking at for awhile because it didn't make sense with how the world was understood. When they realized what they were seeing, and published their work, it was huge. Then the world's great minds thought about the implications and all sorts of ideas opened up, nuclear power and the bomb being among them. Germany was indeed trying to build a bomb, but they lacked the scale of resources America had to devote to it. They also deported, forced out, or killed a lot of Jewish scientists who would have been key contributors, so they were faced with a brain drain. IIRC they also overestimated the amount of uranium required by an order of magnitude and determined it was infeasible, but that may have been Heisenberg sabotaging the program. No one really knows. Heisenberg DID understand all of the basic mechanics and design theory though. He gave a secret talk to German scientists in British captivity after the war that detailed a lot of the mechanisms/design choices necessary for a bomb to function. Some later said that he'd never mentioned any of it during the research during the war.
Fwiw, nuclear bombs and power were pretty much known by physicists to be inevitable from the early 1930's, with leo szilard having thought up the concept. It only took a while to theorize which elements could fuse/fission, and what critical mass was needed. Then it was the time and expense of producing the material, the physics of timing the compression/combination, etc. if a government had taken everything seriously, promptly, the bomb could have probably been completed at least 3 years earlier than it was.
Lots of good stuff coming, especially given that the time jumps allow them to just touch on several things.The Porkchop Express said:I"m just speculating that Alderaan was already on a list of planets that were going to get nuked by the Death Star as soon as there was a good enough reason to do so and that I would be surprised if Bail Organa is not a player in Season 2 of Andor, particularly given the time jumps.redline248 said:
We all forget things. I know Porkchop knows ANH well enough and made a mistake about the Tarkin/Leia lying thing
- Bail is running ***** He's one of the very first real rebels who is out there laying groundwork, not just lashing out. He has Hera Syndulla running recruiting and scouting missions prior to Andor, for example.
- Saw and his Partisans are out there, causing problems for both the Rebels and the Empire.
- Obviously we have K2S0's reprogramming and joining up with Cassian, if that doesn't happen in the next two episodes of S1.
- Rebels Season 1 runs parallel to Andor Season 1, though they are almost entirely working on Lothal. That expands significantly in the time period Andor Season 2 will cover, including Phoenix Squadron becoming a thing, Hera being promoted to General, and a couple of Jedi out there mixing it up with Inquisitors and even Vader. We already know we're getting a live action Ghost crew (that remains post-ROTJ anyway) in the Ahsoka series.
- Oh, and Wedge and some other named ANH pilots are recruited to the Rebellion during this time.
- Parallel to Season 1 of Andor, and beyond, you have Ahsoka working as an intermediary for Organa known as Fulcrum. Cassian also at some point in his career not yet seen will operate under that same code name, presumably for Organa.
- 3 years after Andor Season 1, Mon Mothma publicly denounces Palpatine as a tyrant. At this point she basically announces the formal Alliance to Restore the Republic (aka Rebel Alliance) and its government in exile, and becomes Public Enemy #1. This is another pivotal piece of history from animation I think we'll see done in live action.
- A minor thing, but we'll probably see more of the rebel senate that we saw in Rogue One, especially after Mothma goes public.
- In the timeframe of Andor Season 2, you have Leia getting more and more involved in the Rebellion. For anyone who has ever wanted Millie Bobby Brown to get a crack at an on-screen Leia, here's your chance.
- A side note, and not any sort of prediction, but if the Lando series happens and isn't some sort of prequel, it would almost certainly have to happen during the timeframe covered by Andor S2. Han's troubles with Jabba also happen toward the tail end of that timeframe.
- I just keep digging deeper... you know who else shows up in the Rebellion toward the end of the Andor S2 and would be a really fun addition, not to mention get some much-justified development and screen time? Biggs Effing Darklighter.
Good stuff.
Is this in Rebels? I cannot remember it, at allQuote:
3 years after Andor Season 1, Mon Mothma publicly denounces Palpatine as a tyrant. At this point she basically announces the formal Alliance to Restore the Republic (aka Rebel Alliance) and its government in exile, and becomes Public Enemy #1. This is another pivotal piece of history from animation I think we'll see done in live action.
yes this is Rebels. I believe what triggers it for her and being the final straw is a massacre (happens off screen IIRC) of a race if people that we've heard her talking about in Andor this seasonredline248 said:Is this in Rebels? I cannot remember it, at allQuote:
3 years after Andor Season 1, Mon Mothma publicly denounces Palpatine as a tyrant. At this point she basically announces the formal Alliance to Restore the Republic (aka Rebel Alliance) and its government in exile, and becomes Public Enemy #1. This is another pivotal piece of history from animation I think we'll see done in live action.
The discussion of ANH and blowing up planets made me think of the key quote in the last episode:
Power doesn't panic.
This show is so good.
Power doesn't panic.
This show is so good.
I just realized we're going to be at Disney when the season finale comes out. Going from watching it on the big screen in the media room to watching it on my phone. Or waiting to see it for 2-1/2 days until we get back.
Life is better with a beagle
redline248 said:Is this in Rebels? I cannot remember it, at allQuote:
3 years after Andor Season 1, Mon Mothma publicly denounces Palpatine as a tyrant. At this point she basically announces the formal Alliance to Restore the Republic (aka Rebel Alliance) and its government in exile, and becomes Public Enemy #1. This is another pivotal piece of history from animation I think we'll see done in live action.
Life is better with a beagle
This popped up on my IG feed today. Looks like they'll be showing a couple of episodes outside of Disney Plus. Interesting move.
IG: mando_arms
Came here to post this. That's unexpected.
I guess trying to get more eyeballs on this show? Good move, because it is criminally underwatched.
I just wish that meant a primetime drop for the last two episodes.
I guess trying to get more eyeballs on this show? Good move, because it is criminally underwatched.
I just wish that meant a primetime drop for the last two episodes.
Does this even matter in the end though for us who already watch it? Correct me if I am wrong, but this is a preset series with 2 seasons and that's it. Unlike other series we don't need to worry about it getting the axe with no resolution.Brian Earl Spilner said:
I guess trying to get more eyeballs on this show? Good move, because it is criminally underwatched.
I guess maybe they're trying to bolster their own value as an overall company/streaming service though, maybe that's the play. "Hey this show should be killing it, this is the best **** we've ever put out, we need to shout that out to people."
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