*** STAR WARS: ANDOR *** (Disney+)

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StinkyPinky
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In reply to bobinator • 5:22p, 11/10/22
AG
bobinator said:
I assume some of y'all have seen The Imitation Game, that scene where Luthen is saying they'll have to sacrifice the 50 men reminded me of the scene where they can't tell a ship that it's about to be attacked because then the Germans would know that they'd broken the enigma machine.

A real "oh s***" moment when you realize that's the length they have to go to.


I got around to watching Imitation Game on the airplane a couple of weeks ago and that scene was the first thing that came to mind when watching the Andor scene.
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AgLaw02
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In reply to CondensedFogAggie • 6:11p, 11/10/22
AG
CondensedFogAggie said:
jeffk said:
Geeeeez... that "what do I sacrifice?" speech.
Yep,

"What is my- what is my sacrifice?...... I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burn my decency for someone else's future. I burn my life to make a sunrise that I know I'll never see. And the ego that started this fight will never have a mirror or an audience or the light of gratitude."


Somehow Luthen reminded me of Jack Nicholson's speech/monologue in "A Few Good Men"

"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? .... my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, *saves lives*. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall. "
Kind of a weird comparison because Jack Nicholson's Col Jessup was a straight up villain.
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Prosperdick
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6:19p, 11/10/22
AG
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to Ornithopter • 6:28p, 11/10/22
AG
DubFalls said:
No, couple hours maybe to get everything up and synced with the grid depending on how automated it is.


Kind of depends on if they damaged anything by closing the spillways without disconnecting anything or going through shutdown procedures first. This is a facility, not a power plant connected to a grid. There's probably a lot of computers, equipment, and other stuff attached directly to it, and just cutting the water to generators may result in dirty power and improper shutdowns that damage anything sensitive. All that water has to go somewhere also. Do they have pumps that will run dry and grenade on them when it's cut off?
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to AgLaw02 • 6:50p, 11/10/22
AG
AgLaw02 said:
CondensedFogAggie said:
jeffk said:
Geeeeez... that "what do I sacrifice?" speech.
Yep,

"What is my- what is my sacrifice?...... I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burn my decency for someone else's future. I burn my life to make a sunrise that I know I'll never see. And the ego that started this fight will never have a mirror or an audience or the light of gratitude."


Somehow Luthen reminded me of Jack Nicholson's speech/monologue in "A Few Good Men"

"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? .... my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, *saves lives*. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall. "
Kind of a weird comparison because Jack Nicholson's Col Jessup was a straight up villain.


Not really. They both do bad things for causes they believe in. Jessup abused a guy he saw as a weak link and danger to his mission. He didn't intend for him to die. Luthen is about to knowingly let 50 men die for the sake of security for a guy he's threatening to blackmail. I think it's a great foil because we consider Luthen the good guy and it brings home how close good and bad can be.
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ABATTBQ11
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10:55p, 11/10/22
AG
The title of the episode just hit me while rewatching.

All of them have only one way out. For the prisoners it's escape or death. For Jung, it's dying, as Luthen will never let him go. For Luthen, it's the same. He knows he'll never see the end of the rebellion. For Mon, it's allying with a thug and gangster and potentially marrying off her daughter. All of them are in precarious positions and have one very stark way out
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The Porkchop Express
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11:12p, 11/10/22
AG

Moff Jessup: "Senator Mothma,, we live in a world that has Rebellions, and those Rebellions have to be put down by stormtroopers with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, ex-Chancellor Valorum? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Bail Organa and you curse the Death Star. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that Organa's death, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.

You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about on Life Day, you want me on that Death Star -- you need me on that Death Star.

We use words like "nerf herder" and "dank ferrik" and "stinkawitz". We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a Chandrilan who pimps out her own daughter to a financial thug to circumvent the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it.

I would rather that you just said "Bo Shuda" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a BlasTech DL-44 and stand the post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think you're entitled to!
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AgLaw02
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 12:40a, 11/11/22
AG
ABATTBQ11 said:
AgLaw02 said:
CondensedFogAggie said:
jeffk said:
Geeeeez... that "what do I sacrifice?" speech.
Yep,

"What is my- what is my sacrifice?...... I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burn my decency for someone else's future. I burn my life to make a sunrise that I know I'll never see. And the ego that started this fight will never have a mirror or an audience or the light of gratitude."


Somehow Luthen reminded me of Jack Nicholson's speech/monologue in "A Few Good Men"

"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? .... my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, *saves lives*. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall. "
Kind of a weird comparison because Jack Nicholson's Col Jessup was a straight up villain.


Not really. They both do bad things for causes they believe in. Jessup abused a guy he saw as a weak link and danger to his mission. He didn't intend for him to die. Luthen is about to knowingly let 50 men die for the sake of security for a guy he's threatening to blackmail. I think it's a great foil because we consider Luthen the good guy and it brings home how close good and bad can be.
I guess they are comparable on a surface level. Both men lie and scheme, but Luthen is selfless, willing to lose it all for the cause while Col Jessup is entirely focused on self. Things got out of control, a guy died, and Jessup scrambled to keep it under wraps to preserve his career. His argument in court that he needs to be tough for the good of the nation is largely a cover for his own arrogance. He treats every other character with total contempt and he believes them all to be inferior to himself, including the judge. Jessup doesn't descend into villainy because he is dedicated for the Marines, but because he is dedicated to himself. He is brimming with pride, which Catholics correctly identify as the most corrupting sin.

Luthen made the morally gray call not to save Kreeger's team,, but he didn't do it to preserve self. There was zero selfishness involved. You get the sense that he would quite willingly give his life to save 50 men, but he knows he doesn't have that luxury because he needs to stay alive to save more than that.
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An L of an Ag
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 6:12a, 11/11/22
AG
The Porkchop Express said:

Moff Jessup: "Senator Mothma,, we live in a world that has Rebellions, and those Rebellions have to be put down by stormtroopers with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, ex-Chancellor Valorum? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Bail Organa and you curse the Death Star. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that Organa's death, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.

You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about on Life Day, you want me on that Death Star -- you need me on that Death Star.

We use words like "nerf herder" and "dank ferrik" and "stinkawitz". We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a Chandrilan who pimps out her own daughter to a financial thug to circumvent the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it.

I would rather that you just said "Bo Shuda" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a BlasTech DL-44 and stand the post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think you're entitled to!


<golf clap>
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jokershady
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8:34a, 11/11/22
AG
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to AgLaw02 • 8:48a, 11/11/22
AG
AgLaw02 said:
ABATTBQ11 said:
AgLaw02 said:
CondensedFogAggie said:
jeffk said:
Geeeeez... that "what do I sacrifice?" speech.
Yep,

"What is my- what is my sacrifice?...... I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burn my decency for someone else's future. I burn my life to make a sunrise that I know I'll never see. And the ego that started this fight will never have a mirror or an audience or the light of gratitude."


Somehow Luthen reminded me of Jack Nicholson's speech/monologue in "A Few Good Men"

"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? .... my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, *saves lives*. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall. "
Kind of a weird comparison because Jack Nicholson's Col Jessup was a straight up villain.


Not really. They both do bad things for causes they believe in. Jessup abused a guy he saw as a weak link and danger to his mission. He didn't intend for him to die. Luthen is about to knowingly let 50 men die for the sake of security for a guy he's threatening to blackmail. I think it's a great foil because we consider Luthen the good guy and it brings home how close good and bad can be.
I guess they are comparable on a surface level. Both men lie and scheme, but Luthen is selfless, willing to lose it all for the cause while Col Jessup is entirely focused on self. Things got out of control, a guy died, and Jessup scrambled to keep it under wraps to preserve his career. His argument in court that he needs to be tough for the good of the nation is largely a cover for his own arrogance. He treats every other character with total contempt and he believes them all to be inferior to himself, including the judge. Jessup doesn't descend into villainy because he is dedicated for the Marines, but because he is dedicated to himself. He is brimming with pride, which Catholics correctly identify as the most corrupting sin.

Luthen made the morally gray call not to save Kreeger's team,, but he didn't do it to preserve self. There was zero selfishness involved. You get the sense that he would quite willingly give his life to save 50 men, but he knows he doesn't have that luxury because he needs to stay alive to save more than that.


You say Jessup is focused on self because he covered up the murder, but the act was for the mission. The cover-up was for the good of the unit and because he truly believes he's doing good work and needs to stay. Luthen would scapegoat his own mother to save himself if he thought it was for the good of the rebellion. They're really two sides of the same coin.
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Malachi Constant
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9:11a, 11/11/22
AG
Cassian
Mon Mothma
Luthen
Meera
Maarva
Bix
Syril
Vel
Saw

I think the next episode beings the journey of intersecting all these characters at Spellhaus....
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bobinator
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 9:17a, 11/11/22
AG
The real moment for the Luthen character is going to be if/when he's wrong. What if what he thinks is best for the rebellion isn't?
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to bobinator • 9:34a, 11/11/22
AG
Maybe. I think it's going to be sacrificing himself for the rebellion. We know Mon will eventually lead it, so he's going to have pass it off to her eventually.

ETA Or he does so something wrong and makes a mistake, and Mothma has to take the rebellion from him. Maybe he goes too far in the name of secrecy or provocation.
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bobinator
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 9:49a, 11/11/22
AG
Yeah, I think thematically for this show it makes more sense that he does something that's finally over the line or he makes a mistake or something and he gets sacrificed by Mon or Saw or something like that.

I don't think he'll get the clear cut end of just sacrificing himself.
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The Porkchop Express
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10:19a, 11/11/22
AG
I think there's going to be a point, probably in Season 2, when Andor is part of or leading a mission to get Mon Mothma off Coruscant, and possibly Luthen too, although he'll surely die in the rescue/escape.

Because this show has been so on point with its dialogue, I could even see some sort of situation where he an Mon Mothma are in a confined space for an extended period of time, like a cargo hold or a cockpit, and a really long scene of just dialogue plays out where she convinces him to join the Rebellion for good. Because it's clear Cassian isn't going to fight the Empire to avenge somebody's death or to fufill some dying person's wish, he's got to be all in. She should be able to convince him, if she acquires the same intel that Luthen has on him, that he's been fighting the Empire his whole life, just not in so many words, and that having enough money to "get away" isn't going to give him peace.
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redline248
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10:52a, 11/11/22
AG
Andor may not need much more convincing. He already had the money to get away and be left alone, and the Empire threw him in prison for walking around on a beach. He knows, now, that it doesn't matter where he goes or what he does. He, and everyone else, are living every moment looking over their shoulders.
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An L of an Ag
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In reply to redline248 • 10:56a, 11/11/22
AG
redline248 said:
Andor may not need much more convincing. He already had the money to get away and be left alone, and the Empire threw him in prison for walking around on a beach. He knows, now, that it doesn't matter where he goes or what he does. He, and everyone else, are living every moment looking over their shoulders.


This. I'm thinking that, in his mind, escaping from prison and killing some guards in the process is nowhere near enough payback.
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bobinator
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11:07a, 11/11/22
AG
Yeah I think the convincing part is over
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Brian Earl Spilner
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11:25a, 11/11/22
AG
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to redline248 • 11:35a, 11/11/22
AG
redline248 said:
Andor may not need much more convincing. He already had the money to get away and be left alone, and the Empire threw him in prison for walking around on a beach. He knows, now, that it doesn't matter where he goes or what he does. He, and everyone else, are living every moment looking over their shoulders.


This. Cassian knows there's only one way out now.
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DTP02
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In reply to bobinator • 11:40a, 11/11/22
AG
bobinator said:
The real moment for the Luthen character is going to be if/when he's wrong. What if what he thinks is best for the rebellion isn't?


Honestly, it's tough to justify sacrificing the Spellhaus guys if you're going to start questioning whether Luthen's right.

The justification for that is a little clumsy and definitely more clumsy than what this show has typically been.

They aren't aware of any suspicion of the agent in the ISB, and Kreegyr's guys have ample reason to be suspicious after their pilot died.

Sacrificing 50 men for that, for a rebellion in its infancy, seems like bad calculus.
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DTP02
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In reply to bobinator • 11:43a, 11/11/22
AG
bobinator said:
Yeah I think the convincing part is over


If it's not completely over, which I think it probably is, it will be over when he finds out his "mom" went suicide bomber back home.
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gougler08
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In reply to DTP02 • 3:16p, 11/11/22
AG
DTP02 said:
bobinator said:
Yeah I think the convincing part is over


If it's not completely over, which I think it probably is, it will be over when he finds out his "mom" went suicide bomber back home.


Yeah his mom has to go out in a blaze of glory here in these last 2 episodes. That could be the final straw
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TCTTS
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4:23p, 11/11/22
AG
This is so good, and gets me amped to watch episode 10 again…

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KCup17
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4:32p, 11/11/22
AG
Poor one out for Kino man.
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jeffk
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4:40p, 11/11/22
AG
Andor's mom
Been making a bomb.
She's all pissed off
Gonna go before long.
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Ol_Ag_02
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In reply to TCTTS • 4:53p, 11/11/22
AG
TCTTS said:
This is so good, and gets me amped to watch episode 10 again…




While the article is spot on the writer really could've made his points without coming across as a giant ******bag.

And I'm not even the demographic that he's slamming.
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TCTTS
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In reply to Ol_Ag_02 • 4:57p, 11/11/22
AG
Oh, come on. It's funny.
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Ol_Ag_02
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In reply to TCTTS • 5:03p, 11/11/22
AG
TCTTS said:
Oh, come on. It's funny.


Sorry man. A writer that relies on slam dunking "stupid rubes" that probably aren't even going to see his article is like a comedian that has to swear constantly to "be funny".

Be better at your job.

And again…. I'm hardly the Star Wars fanboy he's slam dunking on. I really don't even like star wars that much. I like Andor because it's good TV. That's it.
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gougler08
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In reply to Ol_Ag_02 • 5:05p, 11/11/22
AG
Ol_Ag_02 said:
TCTTS said:
This is so good, and gets me amped to watch episode 10 again…




While the article is spot on the writer really could've made his points without coming across as a giant ******bag.

And I'm not even the demographic that he's slamming.
He's from San Fran, of course he's pompous
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TCTTS
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In reply to Ol_Ag_02 • 5:09p, 11/11/22
AG
He's a big sports writer and that's a part of his schtick/personality. That said, it's hardly even present here, and IMO, anyone he's taking innocent, joking shots at more or less "deserves" it. Anyway, I find it funny, and it didn't even cross my mind that anyone would take offense to anything in that review, but to each his own. I guess this *is* the internet, after all, with no shortage of people looking to be offended by anything and everything.
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Ol_Ag_02
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In reply to TCTTS • 5:26p, 11/11/22
AG
TCTTS said:
He's a big sports writer and that's a part of his schtick/personality. That said, it's hardly even present here, and IMO, anyone he's taking innocent, joking shots at more or less "deserves" it. Anyway, I find it funny, and it didn't even cross my mind that anyone would take offense to anything in that review, but to each his own. I guess this *is* the internet, after all, with no shortage of people looking to be offended by anything and everything


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The Porkchop Express
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5:30p, 11/11/22
AG
It's not insulting, it's just the same lazy joke that every Internet genius uses. That the average Star Wars fan these is a 45 year old loser with no kids who likes Legos. I have no idea who this guy is, but then again I have no idea who nearly every writer these days is. It is ironic though that he is praising great writing on TV with lazy writing of his own, and if he thinks that Andor isnt providing a lot of fan service, then he definitely is missing the boat on what a rich Star Wars steeped show it is.
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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 5:35p, 11/11/22
AG
My counter point is that he's a tv episode review writer, we shouldn't expect him to be Tolstoy. With the amount of money being poured into Star Wars, I do wish this show was the standard of writing since the first movie.
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