Mathguy64 said:

---

Aston94 said:

---

Mathguy64 said:

---

May as well wrap GKers in bubble wrap.

---

A t was a foul. If it had been two players in the field and one had jumped into the other to prevent him from heading it would have been a foul.

---

Totally disagree. Hojlund had as much right to that ball as Henderson. When Henderson felt the contact he threw his arms and legs out in all 4 directions begging for a call because he misplayed the ball to start with.

That's a GK being given a gift call because he's wearing a different color shirt.

---

He does have as much right to the ball, but Hojlund jumped into Henderson and pushed him off his spot. Its very clearly a foul. If not for Hojlund Henderson would have jumped straight up and caught the ball. Side angle made it very clear.

Onana is right *****

That last shot that squared the post he never moved. They should be embarrassed for this today.

I'm just happy it's over.

I picked a good time to go on a two week holiday. Did I see that our starting center backs were Evans and Casemiro? Like…seriously? Game doesn't appear to say anything that we didn't already know.

Let's just hope some people are healthy come the FA Cup or else City will hang 2 TDs on us.

Does Man U even train?

Better chance of European games via the league or FA Cup win?

Honestly, pretty sure the answer is neither…

Furlock Bones said:

---

I keep thinking back to Tony Meola saying he just didn't see what EtH saw in Onana. He's been so spot on in his assessment.

---

Nothing need be added.

Tuchel full on campaigning for the United job.

Tommy Tickles, you are the next contestant on The Price is Right!

I scoffed at it a week or so ago, but there are a lot of Tuchel stories coming out. And he's moved to the top of the odds table. Kind of feels like he's tabbed as the next guy. If he wasn't, you'd think he would kiss and make up with Bayern.

Full disclosure: I was Team Conte in handshake-gate, so I'm plainly not unbiased.

Could do worse honestly. If Ineos is to be believed, they want to establish a style of play and then hire the manager that fits it. Does Tuchel fit that style? Who the hell knows. I could guess what style they want to play but I don't think anyone knows for sure.

Could it be a style of play that can change formations when we have an aging midfielder and forty year old free agent playing central defense due to injuries? Could we maybe throw something out against the wall than a 4-3-3 when 85% of our starters are out?

Damn this team is a mess.

• Manchester United XI: Onana; Dalot, Casemiro, Evans, Wan-Bissaka; McTominay, Amrabat, Mainoo; Garnacho, Diallo; Hojlund.

• Arsenal XI: David Raya; White, Saliba, Gabriel, Tomiyasu; Odegaard, Partey, Rice; Saka, Havertz, Trossard.

— 𝐀𝐅𝐂 𝐀𝐉𝐀𝐗 💎 (@TheEuropeanLad) May 12, 2024

Well, we aren't hiding all the good players on the bench… it's Antony, Eriksen, and lots of youth.

Casemiro out there embarrassing himself now.

Casemiro was just chilling at the back 😭

(via @NBCSportsSoccer)pic.twitter.com/cutAyMrEYb

— B/R Football (@brfootball) May 12, 2024

We should have had a penalty. Onana made some good saves to keep this a goal match in the 2nd half.

Never felt like we had enough gas in the tank to do much of anything unfortunately.

If ever there has been a symbol of this season's Manchester United. 😳

The famous hole in the Old Trafford roof goes full waterfall. So much for Sir Jim Ratcliffe to fix. 💦pic.twitter.com/7zQK8ttQ9z

— Men in Blazers (@MenInBlazers) May 12, 2024

I find the media's continued hammering of United to be tiresome and over the top to the point that it undermines the very valid criticism that United and ETH should receive.

You can't just "Yeah but" over this injury situation. You just can't. Casemiro is starting at center back for multiple weeks. No left back in months. Starting Scott McTominay as an attacking mid. Honestly, that team did extraordinarily well to even somewhat contend today.

Tons of valid reasons to criticize ETH. Oodles of reasons. But if you don't at least balance it with a recognition that this team is absolutely decimated with injuries and has a bench consisting of Eriksen and U-18 players (with several players starting in very unfamiliar positions) then the coverage loses all credibility.

Said it before and I'll say it again. There will never be a harder job in football than Man United manager.

I dont know if I agree with your last point. Maybe hardest in English football.

I am not an EtH fan. But I did say I'm not sure how you even judge him on a day like today given the absolute crap he has to work with.

Wayne Rooney said after the match that he believe several players could play right now that are claiming injuries. But all of the ire is directed at EtH, so they are hiding in the training room.

All that to say. It was an uninspired performance. EtH has failed to get these guys to even put in the effort. And Casemiro is embarrassing himself. Sure he's out of position. But he's not even jogging anymore.

Well, here's the thing about ten Hag: I thought after last year he was the guy, and this year has gone so poorly it really makes me question it. But I'm not fully convinced with any of the alternatives. And it has been an injury crisis (I know there are other teams that also have injuries, but most of those are having about the same season we are having). But running through the top alternatives:

Di Zerbi was the next big thing until this year, but that's kind of like ten Hag.

Southgate I'm not convinced because most international games are England versus [insert small country here]. Before England his resume is poor.

Potter was the guy punching above his weight at Brighton before Di Zerbi did it too, and he failed at Chelsea; I think he needs to win at another place before getting another big job.

Tuchel has kind of gotten sacked a lot lately. He has the Champion's League win, I'm not diminishing Champion's League wins, but it's that, i assume a lot of Ligue 1 trophies, and lots of acrimonious firings; he's kind of turning into a lesser version of Jose in some respects.

Honestly, where I am is: I'm not sure what the answer is, but SJR paid about 1.5 billion, I do think he's trying to win and not just suck money from the club (unlike some owners, not to name any names). So, you know, I'm kind of just hoping he does have a plan, and he's paid a good bit of money for the right to have a plan. If the plan is ten Hag, great. If the plan is Tuchel or Di Zerbi, great.

If the plan is Southgate… I'll be honest, I'd rather find a different plan. LOL.

If I can make an observation…I think there are some similarities between TenHag and Arteta. Arteta is obviously a very good coach but his success has mirrored the club getting its **** together. At the end of Wenger's Era, our club structure was so bad and we had no direction. We bought players to plug and play instead of to help build a team. Edu and Arteta were the perfect match. Arteta fails without him, just like Unai.

Until the ManU front office has a plan, it won't matter who your coach is.

Sorry for crossing streams. Tell me to **** off if I'm not appreciated.

Fair. Real Madrid and Barca have intense media scrutiny as well but I probably don't fully appreciate it as someone who is not a massive La Liga fan and who has a basic understanding of Spanish at best.

I think you're likely right...especially about the front office part. It's not coincidence that ETH had massive success when he worked with a front office at Ajax that was extremely well constructed (as an aside, look how far Ajax fell when their front office fell apart).

It's a shorter, sweeter way of saying what I've said before. Focus on getting the organization built first. On the list of things to do, as bad as this season has been, who the manager is in September is not number one on the list.

Speaking of. What an absolute 180 Perez has done as the leader of Real Madrid. From the galactico days which did not pan out. To masterful work on the transfer front. Real Madrid and United have literally flip flopped. MU consistently overpay for transfers and salary. RM gets huge young players , and also forces them into a defined club salary structure.

Sold finished Casemiro for £70million. Bought 22 year old Tchouameni for £80million. Don Florentino Perez 🐐 pic.twitter.com/fXZJ1b8sMr

— Footy Humour (@FootyHumour) May 13, 2024

I am done with this season (been done for a while). Time to talk future.

This has been the absolute worst of the worst as far as seasons for the club. The only, and I mean only, bright spot is that we have a new group in charge and we hopefully have a path forward that doesn't include overspending on over-aged or over-valued players.

This roster needs a full rebuild in my estimation so here is who I would like to see stay and go. Now I know the likelihood of turning over a roster to this extent in not in any way going to happen in one summer, but if I were in an office at Carrington this is what my board would look like and what I would be trying to get accomplished his summer:

Erik Ten Hag-I understand he has been working in difficult circumstances this year, given the ownership changes and the absolute disaster of a roster with all the injuries. But, he also wanted many of the players who have underperformed this season, and his insistence on throwing out the 4-3-3 formation no matter the squad or opponent is very, very frustrating. If we had a full healthy roster I don't see his style of play and this roster doing any better than 4th or 5th in the league. So I have no confidence going forward that next season would be any better. My recommendation would be to say goodbye to ETH and many of his roster additions. I know there are not a lot of great candidates available this year, but the new management team needs to scour the ends of the earth and find someone who matches their desired style of play. If ETH's style is their desired style of play then I am going to just turn off Manchester United football for the next five years until a new style of play is settled on.

Stay:
Mainoo, Garnacho, Diallo, and other young players are obvious stays, and perhaps loan outs (not Mainoo, Garnacho or Diallo) depending on who comes in next season.

Hojlund-first year hasn't yielded the goals hoped for, but I think that has a lot to do with style of play and those that surround him. He does appear to be very talented and something to build off of, but 36 shots in 28 league appearances is not good enough for a striker.

Fernandez- For better or worse, he has been our best player this season and really for the last several, leading the team this season in goals and assists. He has opened up the offense for us and I think with the right pieces around him can be a great player.

Rashford- This one I went back and forth on, but he has shown his ability in the past and it is a matter of using him properly and putting him in a good place. A bit of a fresh start might do him well, but I am willing to let a new manager have a year with him.

McTominay- He has a definite role on the squad, I am not sure if it is a full time starter or just a regular off the bench and spot starter. His goals have been invaluable this season.

Amrabat- I think he also has a role on the bench and as a spot starter. I have been impressed with his tenacity this season and I think he could have been used more. I know he is on a loan from Fiorentina, but, depending on the money, I wouldn't mind them purchasing him as he still is relatively young (27).

Mount- I went back and forth on Mount. I did like his game at Chelsea, and I think there is a spot for him, but man what a disappointing signing so far. I am going to rack up his season to injuries, a formation that doesn't suit his game, and never getting into a flow with the club. With the amount spent on him I will be willing to let a new manager try and find a place for him.

Wan-Bissaka- I am not convinced he should be your starter at right back, but if we have learned anything this season it is that an abundance of depth is needed in defense. Aaron is serviceable but his ability to put in crosses needs work and he is occasionally a defensive liability. He does rely on his athleticism to save his poor decision making, and that might cause issues as he gets older. Good depth, so no reason to let him go right now.

Dalot- He has probably had the best season of any player on the roster, certainly the most dependable. Unlike Wan-Bissaka, Dalot does have good crossing and finishing skills and his defense is much improved. He is a definite to hold onto.

Shaw- When healthy, Shaw is a very dependable left back. Can he regain his health and form? Hard to believe Shaw is still only 28 years old, but if the club believes he can regai his fitness then I would be all for holding onto him, but we definitely need a new left back as well for depth if Malacia is not to return.

Martinez- Of all of ETH's signings, Lisandro is probably my favorite. He is still just 26 years old, so he has a lot of soccer ahead of him, and I am hopeful this rash of injuries can be overcome. His effort level, maturity and game understanding have all been very much missed in his absence.

Lindelof- Victor has been a consistent presence and a solid contributor. I don't know that I want him as one of the two starters, but he provides good, solid depth. He is a good, consistent defender and can play multiple positions on the back line, especially if a new manager has the ability the scheme a back 3 or a back 4.

Maguire- Like Rashford, I went back and forth on Maguire, but concluded that, given the number of dismissals I think need to happen it is probably best to hold onto him. When he has been healthy this year it has been arguably his best season in Red. I think he can be a good player to start as needed, but not an every game type defender at this level anymore.

Malacia- I really hope he can come back and find his form and offer the club some depth on the wings.

Onana- Of all of ETH's signings this has probably been a top 2-3 least favorite for me. I appreciate a keeper who can play the ball with his feet, but he has to be a keeper first, and the positional awareness has not been good this season. I don't think you could get anywhere near on the market what was spent on him, so I am inclined to hold onto him with the understanding that a second keeper will be purchased who can provide depth at the position and maybe push him. Onana has played every moment of every game except one FA Cup game this season, which is just crazy. The team needs depth and he needs a competent back up.

Departures:

Martial- He needs a new start and I need to never watch his indifference on the field again.

Antony- Maybe wherever ETH lands they will pay more than a bag of balls for him and we can get him off the books. 29 league appearances, 1 goal, 1 assist, from a front three player. Just completely unacceptable and he just isn't good enough to play for high level EPL teams. For the record, my least favorite signing of the ETH era.

Casemiro- It is time for Casemiro to go back to Brazil and be an icon in the middle of the pitch, and hopefully play a position where he does not need to track back and keep up with a forward. He is obviously too slow for this level of play anymore. For the record, he is my second least favorite signing of the ETH era, not because of him, but the price tag that it took to get a player for one good season. His drop off has been remarkable.

Eriksen- I love Eriksen's game and his tenacious efforts to recover from his heart issues. I wish we had Eriksen of 22 and not Eriksen of 32. I really hope he comes to the MLS and can drop dimes all around the US, but he is not at a top level EPL team ability wise any longer.

Varane- I think he is ready to retire, he just does not seem interested in high level football any more, which is fine, we just do not need to rely on him. I see him making big money in a Saudi League and sharing his disinterest for playing football throughout the Middle East.

Heaton, Bayindir- If they aren't good enough to sub Onana for a League Cup game then we probably need a different #2 keeper.


Needs
As far as needs, we need to add
1. A new manager not named Teuchel
2. More depth to the spine of the club, bringing in another forward
3. A central midfielder
4. A defensive midfielder
5. at least one central defender
6. a back up keeper
7. one more wing to replace Antony, depending on the formation(s) a new manager would like to run
8. another left back.

So a lot. Time for Ineos to get busy.

On needs:

Manager: the odds on favorites right now are, in order, Tuchel, then Southgate, then Potter, then Di Zerbi. After that the names start sounding very unlikely (Zidane, Flick, Nagelsman). They could have a surprise, they did for CEO, but I think the question is probably ten Hag v. Tuchel.

From front to back, I think we need:
Backup striker (Martial goes)
Right Wing (Probably Olise, possibly Sancho if ten Hag goes; we do already own him; Greenwood sold, Sancho probably sold, probably have to loan Antony because he's so crap who would buy on his wages even free… worst transfer ever IMO, and that's saying something; I think we need to resign Amad because there is only a year left)
Left wing - Rashford and Garnacho, no change (I'd sell Rashford if someone named PSG showed up with a big offer, but don't think it happens; hopefully in form Rashford shows up next year)
Attacking Mid - Bruno, Mount, McTominay (not sure where to put him; he almost acts as a second striker this year; although if someone showed up with 35+ Mil that's a lot of money for Scott and we do have other needs)
Carrying mid - Mainoo, new option (we keep getting this wrong) (Eriksen goes)
Defensive Mid - honestly, need 2, and these have been expensive lately (thanks Chelsea). Casemiro to Saudi I think
Center back - Martinez, keep one of Maguire or Lindeloff (for good offers I'd sell both though), Varane leaves on free, maybe keep Evans as cheap emergency fifth option, allow to transition to coaching role potentially (don't care that much, just saying, he is a low cost emergency option that we unfortunately have had to use more than we thought). Incoming : Todibo + ???
RB: Dalot stays, AWB goes (probably) (possibly Frompong in)
LB: Shaw + ????
Keeper: Onana + ??? (I'd exercise the buyback on Kovar and make him backup; he's homegrown under the rule, why did we sell a good young homegrown keeper? He looked good.) (Third: Heaton, other cheap option that's himegriwn; homegrown rule has become a jobs program for third choice keepers, don't really care, they never play)

Apt analogy.

Most teams get two great to decent years from TT until his players can't stand him anymore.

I thought he was at PSG for 3+ years, but actually the last time he was at a club for 3+ years was Mainz 05 in 2009-2014

Dortmund- 2 years summer 2015-2017
PSG - 2.5 years summer 2018-Christmas eve 2020
Chelsea - 1.5 years Jan 2021-Sept 2022
Bayern - 1 year and change

I don't know if that's completely on Tuchel or modern impatience with managers, but I think it's probably a little of both

Just posting because I thought it was interesting