I'd really appreciate if at least one out of Garnacho and Rashford could get in form because they are both woefully out of form right now.
Manchester United 2023-24 Thread
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Last: 5 mo ago by Thunder18
Dre_00 said:
I'd really appreciate if at least one out of our 50 wingers could get in form because they are both woefully out of form right now.
FIFY
Another weak late game PK awarded against us. This is what happens when you don't put teams away at home
Well Onana saved our asses there
Maguire, you are safe for now. Mctominay you are back on the transfer list. Whew!Showstopper said:
Harry Maguire! And you guys wanted to sell him and Mctominay! (And by you guys I mean me lol)
This team will be the death of me I swear to god.
Have had a sleep to ponder on the game and...
...I too like ETH and think he can still succeed but it's almost like he's sabotaging himself at times. He's making decisions that are counter to decisions he's made in the past. I'm not sure if the basic defensive errors that United has made which have consistently been punished have scared the bajeesus out of him or what but I can't believe that the ETH that I know and love would think that starting McTominay and Amrabat in midfield in a must win game against an opponent with inferior talent is a prudent tactical decision. That midfield was never going to be able to progress the ball and initiate attacks against an opponent in a low block. Never ever. While Copenhagen came out a bit more in the 2nd half and did press on occasion, it's no surprise that one solitary midfielder with the ability to pass and read the game was enough to change the trajectory of the game and start creating multiple chances.
Someone on Twitter made a good comment. ETH is so guarded with injury information that it's impossible to know if his decisions are based on tactical decisions or are forced by managing minutes. For example, we can assume that Reguilon was pulled after 60 minutes due to managing his minutes but we don't actually know. And maybe Eriksen didn't start because he can't play 3 games in 8 days and he wants him available for City. But they are all just guesses because he's so secretive about injuries and man management.
And while ETH has been perplexingly frustrating, some of his key players aren't helping him at all. Rashford's form is woeful. Ditto with Garnacho. Can't believe each had a 1v1 with the keeper and neither even managed to get a shot away. Casemiro has been way below last year's standard. This team doesn't have nearly enough depth for two of it's best players to be so far below their best...especially given the injuries/players who are unavailable.
Super happy to see Maguire and Onana save the day. That's the 3rd game in a row that Maguire has played very well (though his giveaway...while mostly just a matter of bad luck...did ultimately lead to the early chance that Copenhagen put on the post). Part of me is still waiting for him to revert back to poor form but good for him and good for the team with Lisandro out till January and Varane as brittle as a saltine.
For Onana, I hope this becomes his Van Persie PK save moment. De Gea really struggled when he first came to United and got a ton of crap in the press and from fans. I believe both he and others have mentioned that his PK save against Van Persie in the 8-2 game (when it was still a close game at 1-0) began to give him the confidence that he could succeed at United. Onana doesn't seem to lack for confidence but United is a whole different type of pressure even when they suck (maybe especially when they suck). I love his demeanor and his willingness to take responsibility. I really hope this is his Van Persie PK moment.
...I too like ETH and think he can still succeed but it's almost like he's sabotaging himself at times. He's making decisions that are counter to decisions he's made in the past. I'm not sure if the basic defensive errors that United has made which have consistently been punished have scared the bajeesus out of him or what but I can't believe that the ETH that I know and love would think that starting McTominay and Amrabat in midfield in a must win game against an opponent with inferior talent is a prudent tactical decision. That midfield was never going to be able to progress the ball and initiate attacks against an opponent in a low block. Never ever. While Copenhagen came out a bit more in the 2nd half and did press on occasion, it's no surprise that one solitary midfielder with the ability to pass and read the game was enough to change the trajectory of the game and start creating multiple chances.
Someone on Twitter made a good comment. ETH is so guarded with injury information that it's impossible to know if his decisions are based on tactical decisions or are forced by managing minutes. For example, we can assume that Reguilon was pulled after 60 minutes due to managing his minutes but we don't actually know. And maybe Eriksen didn't start because he can't play 3 games in 8 days and he wants him available for City. But they are all just guesses because he's so secretive about injuries and man management.
And while ETH has been perplexingly frustrating, some of his key players aren't helping him at all. Rashford's form is woeful. Ditto with Garnacho. Can't believe each had a 1v1 with the keeper and neither even managed to get a shot away. Casemiro has been way below last year's standard. This team doesn't have nearly enough depth for two of it's best players to be so far below their best...especially given the injuries/players who are unavailable.
Super happy to see Maguire and Onana save the day. That's the 3rd game in a row that Maguire has played very well (though his giveaway...while mostly just a matter of bad luck...did ultimately lead to the early chance that Copenhagen put on the post). Part of me is still waiting for him to revert back to poor form but good for him and good for the team with Lisandro out till January and Varane as brittle as a saltine.
For Onana, I hope this becomes his Van Persie PK save moment. De Gea really struggled when he first came to United and got a ton of crap in the press and from fans. I believe both he and others have mentioned that his PK save against Van Persie in the 8-2 game (when it was still a close game at 1-0) began to give him the confidence that he could succeed at United. Onana doesn't seem to lack for confidence but United is a whole different type of pressure even when they suck (maybe especially when they suck). I love his demeanor and his willingness to take responsibility. I really hope this is his Van Persie PK moment.
This team just isn't clicking right now for whatever reason, but I do think the injuries and then Rashford's woeful performances of late are the biggest factors.
Rashford finishes these chances (just one a game) and we get some depth back and we should look much better. That turns this narrow 1-0 win into a comfortable 2 or 3-0 win.
Edit--I do agree with you Dre that ETH is a tough read, my one concern with him is that he is a tough read for the players as well, and they don't know what to make of him. I just worry they are not fully bought in to his plans.
Rashford finishes these chances (just one a game) and we get some depth back and we should look much better. That turns this narrow 1-0 win into a comfortable 2 or 3-0 win.
Edit--I do agree with you Dre that ETH is a tough read, my one concern with him is that he is a tough read for the players as well, and they don't know what to make of him. I just worry they are not fully bought in to his plans.
Rashford drives me insane. He has all the talent to be an elite winger and just seems to completely lose confidence for long periods of time and his form just tanks. You can just see the indecision in his game this season, much like pre-World Cup Rash.
It's unbelievable that he has been this poor after being so electric last year.
It's unbelievable that he has been this poor after being so electric last year.
Kieran McKenna currently has Ipswich Town in 2nd place in the Championship in the first season after promotion...well out in front of Leeds in 3rd after 1/4 of the season. Still a long way to go but Ipswich Town haven't been at this position in nearly 20 years.
Michael Carrick got off to a rough start this season but now Middlesbrough are top half after winning 6 in a row. He'll have more pressure than McKenna...I'm guessing there will be expectation of a playoff experience even though he lost two of his biggest players from last season.
Anyway, always interesting to check-in and see how these two are doing. Let's face it...probability is very high that the United job will be available in the next couple of years (maybe significantly earlier than that if things continue but I digress). Would be nice to see at least one of these coaches getting EPL experience next season.
Michael Carrick got off to a rough start this season but now Middlesbrough are top half after winning 6 in a row. He'll have more pressure than McKenna...I'm guessing there will be expectation of a playoff experience even though he lost two of his biggest players from last season.
Anyway, always interesting to check-in and see how these two are doing. Let's face it...probability is very high that the United job will be available in the next couple of years (maybe significantly earlier than that if things continue but I digress). Would be nice to see at least one of these coaches getting EPL experience next season.
I finally get to watch a match and I'm treated to a back 4 of Lindelof, Slabhead, Evans and Dalot.
I'm guessing the objective is to just hold, grab and just generally muscle city.
This could get ugly fast.
I'm guessing the objective is to just hold, grab and just generally muscle city.
This could get ugly fast.
Man we need our defenders to heal up
holy crap I don't know how the cyborg didn't get another tap in.
Defense just forgot about Haaland in the middle of the field. Lucky the pass was over hit
Rodri is getting nowhere near that
VAR pushing the limits of "clear and obvious" there, me thinks
There should be about 10 pens given a game if they call that every time it happens
I would love to speak with anyone who wants to tell me there is a myth that ManU gets gift penalties.
That was soft and happens on every PK. Plus Rodri is never getting to that.
That was soft and happens on every PK. Plus Rodri is never getting to that.
Meanwhile Hojlund keeps his feet or likely draws a PK and card from Stones there
Foden instigated that and walked away with the ball.
Can he get a card and punch in the face?
Can he get a card and punch in the face?
I missed almost the entire the first half but seeing the replay of the PK and...relitigating that foul is exactly what makes VAR horrible. You could argue it's a foul in the box and you could argue that there's no way he's ever getting to that so it's a foul that shouldn't be called. If VAR didn't exist it would be talking point and people would say it either was or wasn't a PK. With VAR...it's still a talking point and people will say it either is or isn't a PK. So VAR has achieved no positive and only brought the negative of stopping the game for 3 minutes for no good reason.
Leaving the cyborg unmarked like that is probably not a successful strategy.
I should have stuck to my convictions and not bothered to watch.
It's just so weird to see all these players who were playing well now just look like below average footballers for a period of months. Fernandes, Rashford, Eriksen, Casemiro...so effing weird.
Rashford really has to break this slump.
On the plus side, City are giving Onana a ton of opportunities to shut the naysayers up and he is taking them.
(I'm well aware I just jinxed him)
(I'm well aware I just jinxed him)
Once again defender just falls asleep at the back post leaving Haaland completely alone
This game needs to end before we have someone sent off.
And someone needs to tell me what Antony is doing on this roster. He brings nothing but being a hothead idiot.
And someone needs to tell me what Antony is doing on this roster. He brings nothing but being a hothead idiot.
Bailed at the 75th minute and thankfully missed the 3rd goal. Think I'm going to make myself scarce for the next week or so. See if I can keep myself from watching/engaging with United. It's just not healthy at the moment.
It's just devolved into baiting Antony and Bruno. And as expected they swallowed that bait right down the gullet.
I only have the game on in the background ground while I work, and I will be honest, I was kind of hoping we'd get bounced from the Carabao Cup because I think one of our problems is we played too many games last year.
But I would have preferred a 1 goal loss and not another thrashing. Brutal.
But I would have preferred a 1 goal loss and not another thrashing. Brutal.
I'm interested in hearing from the thread. What needs to happen at United to turn things around? It seems like y'all are lacking identity at the moment.
Personally I feel the same way as I do about the Cowboys and Aggies.
On the surface we seem to have all we'd need to succeed. But there seems to be something wrong at levels above what I can really see or understand as an average fan. I sense there's something wrong at the top, but I can't say exactly what it is.
At least that's how I feel.
On the surface we seem to have all we'd need to succeed. But there seems to be something wrong at levels above what I can really see or understand as an average fan. I sense there's something wrong at the top, but I can't say exactly what it is.
At least that's how I feel.
KCup17 said:
I'm interested in hearing from the thread. What needs to happen at United to turn things around? It seems like y'all are lacking identity at the moment.
There are two primary things, both of which will not happen.
One is new ownership who can identify good people to build and run an elite football club. Who prioritize sporting success. Current owners can't and don't...or only do so much to ensure that it doesn't affect the bottom line. There are not enough incremental financial gains for them to finish 1st over finishing 4th so they'll never actually prioritize it. Anyone who says it's not the owners but it's the players or ETH or Richard Arnold or whomever is willfully delusional. Ultimately, it's up to the owners to ensure the right people are in place at the very top. The right people to build the organization that meets their goals. And to hold people accountable if they don't. United have underachieved for more than a decade. During that time, there have been numerous directors, players, managers, and none of it has mattered. The one constant that has been there throughout is the ownership. The Glazers would never openly admit it but I bet that privately they would say they have the right organization to meet their goals. Because their primary goal to increase the commercial power and value of the club. And they've done that so...check mark.
The other area is an even more difficult problem to solve. In fact, I would say it's virtually impossible.
The modern dynamic of football media and content generation, where everyone and their uncle has a podcast, Twitter account, or website that creates content, creates an atmosphere that makes success exponentially more difficult for United than any other club in football...or any sport, period. United absolutely saturates football content and doubly so when they suck. United drives an insane amount of traffic. A disproportionate amount to even clubs like City, Liverpool, or Arsenal. One of my more favorite websites had, on a random Thursday between CL and the City game FIVE stories on United all of which were headlining. Just, go to your favorite football websites and see the content that is United focused vs. the other big clubs. Arsenal haven't won a title in twice as long as United has. They finished 8th in back to back seasons relatively recently. Chelsea finished 12th last season and are currently 11th this season. And yet you will never/have never seen the volume of coverage for those, quite frankly, shocking performances as you will for United. Because United drives so much traffic and engagement. The biggest club in the world. The most hated club in the world. So everyone talks about them. Constantly.
So even if, by some stroke of luck, United were to make a series of fantastic decisions that would lead to a long term turnaround, that environment will never allow those decisions to bear fruit. Because you don't undo a decade of on the field mediocrity in a month or even a season. You need multiple seasons. And the constant external bombardment is eventually going to do so much damage that the situation seemingly becomes untenable, you change course, and you start over and square one. Mikel Arteta finished 8th, 8th, and 5th in his first 3 seasons. ETH is going to get run out of town as an abject failure in his 2nd season after finishing 3rd and winning a trophy in his first season. Part of that is down to a poorly run organization. But a lot of that is external factors driving a narrative and creating a uniquely caustic environment that others don't need to weather...or at least not to that high of a degree.
The problem is that short of getting relegated and wallowing in the football league for a decade, there's nothing United can do to change that. It will take generations for fans to become apathetic towards United. For an easier environment to be created that can cultivate long term changes. Which means that even if new ownership comes along, there are absolutely no guarantees that they will ultimately succeed in an environment which is, in my opinion, virtually unwinnable. As soon as their first stumbles occur or they take too long to succeed, five headline articles will pop up on one of my favorite websites about how crap United are and how the new owners are horrible.
As much as I hate to say it, I think the odds of United being a top tier team again are extremely low and they will remain extremely low for years. Maybe decades.
As for the game, I purposefully did not watch. Did not read any of the content in the lead-up. Won't read any of the post game content after it. About the most I will do is glance at a few United focused Twitter accounts, have a sneak peek at this thread, and move on. I'll avoid the Fulham game and games thereafter in a similar manner. Need a break from the constant barrage of negative that comes without hope for the positive. Maybe I'll re-engage after a while. We'll see.
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