Did you travel to Vegas and complete a preseason evaluation on that game?

Eriksen looked good last night, so curious if that changed your opinion.

Aston94 said:

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Did you travel to Vegas and complete a preseason evaluation on that game?

Eriksen looked good last night, so curious if that changed your opinion.

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i think its pretty clear after last season we can't count on Eriksen as a front line starter.

Aston94 said:

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Did you travel to Vegas and complete a preseason evaluation on that game?

Eriksen looked good last night, so curious if that changed your opinion.

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No, and I'm not sure why my observations from last week rustled your jimmies so much

I don't think it means much more than it is a pretty good deal. Honestly, we've splashed more cash than we were supposed to have room for under FFP, so it could just as easily be related to making more FFP room. If they were making a deal to replace TeamViewer i would read more into that.

Dre_00 said:

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Sounds like Arsenal want to bring in Raya to compete with Ramsdale for #1 GK. That would mean Turner is available and Forest are interested which would mean they have no need or interest in Henderson. Might end up throwing a giant wrench in United's ability to offload him.

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yea, definitely seems like we have dicked around with Henderson for way too long. and as with most things under the glazers, it is going to bite us in the butt.

Because assessing any player, especially veteran players, off of a preseason friendly is laughable.

Furlock Bones said:

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Aston94 said:

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Did you travel to Vegas and complete a preseason evaluation on that game?

Eriksen looked good last night, so curious if that changed your opinion.

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i think its pretty clear after last season we can't count on Eriksen as a front line starter.

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Because he got injured? What made you come to that conclusion? I am curious, because it is not the assessment I had from his season last year.

I watched the Dortmund game last night and my assessment is that Harry Maguire still sucks.

And so does Brandon Williams, although I have more faith that I won't see much more of him.

Edit: I had an assessment on ten Hag as well. My assessment was he looked pretty pissed.

Showstopper said:

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I watched the Dortmund game last night and my assessment is that Harry Maguire still sucks.

And so does Brandon Williams, although I have more faith that I won't see much more of him.

Edit: I had an assessment on ten Hag as well. My assessment was he looked pretty pissed.

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I am sure your assessments came solely off of a preseason performance.

Aston94 said:

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Because assessing any player, especially veteran players, off of a preseason friendly is laughable.

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Be sure to let EtH know he shouldn't be using the pre-season to assess the squad

Well it's been a good while since we've seen much of Brandon Williams. But it doesn't look like he's been using the time I haven't been watching him to get a whole lot better.

Edit: in fairness, I am probably mainly complaining about only a couple of mistakes from Maguire. But the thing about Maguire is that he will be fine like most of the game. But when he has a lapse… he does it big.

I want Maguire to go, but it has nothing to do with the performances on this trip.

Eriksen is absolutely an important player but there are a number of times last season when he faded significantly in the 2nd half of games. Not sure if it's age, lack of fitness, being played out of his favored positions, or what but it was obvious. And when he did fade, our performances usually went to **** right along with his...and we had no one with a similar skillset who could replace him. He's definitely still an important player but he can't be expected to be the only player to fill his specific role in ETH's preferred tactics. Which is fine...every role should have multiple options. Mount should help with that this season.

Galatasaray are said to be making an approach for Fred who has said he's open to playing in Turkey. Means it's highly likely that United won't get much for him. Galatasaray doesn't often pay more than 10 million EUR for a player and it was already rumored that United were more interested in getting his wages off the bill than in getting a good fee for him.

you said it better than me. i like Eriksen. but, that doesn't mean he should be an inked in starter.

Furlock Bones said:

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you said it better than me. i like Eriksen. but, that doesn't mean he should be an inked in starter.

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I think there is a difference between not being a front line starter and not being able to go 90 minutes.

I will take 60-75 minutes of great Eriksen and then sub him out for Mount, McTominay, etc. So he is, to me, a "front line starter", but cannot be asked to go 90.

I will be curious if he can go longer in games this year now that he should be back in full fitness after the injury last season. His passing abilities just open up so many things. I really am looking forward to him and Bruno dropping passes in to a competent 9 with two fast wings. Really should be fun to watch.

I'm curious to see how ETH uses his midfield options now. For the first time, he actually has 4 midfield players he wants to start rather than has to start. Gives him some options he may have been reluctant to do in the past. For example, in the past, if he put Bruno on the right, it likely meant that Fred started. Now he can, in theory, get Bruno, Casemiro, Mount, and Eriksen all on the pitch at the same time if he wants. Better yet, he could actually give Bruno a rest every now and again and not lose much in the way of starting 11 talent.

Not exactly a real big deal, but Nathan Bishop has been sold to Sunderland for an undisclosed fee (I doubt it pays for many Avram Glazer flights so I wouldn't get real excited about the fee).

Sounds like Hojlund will be announced/introduced in combination with this weekend's friendly against Lens.

Nathan Bishop joins Sunderland for an undisclosed fee (small I'm sure). EDIT: NM Showstopper beat me to it.

Decision on Greenwood to be announced imminently. Pretty much guaranteed to be a talking point no matter what they decide. I'd get rid of him yesterday but if I was a betting man, I'd bet that they will seek out a loan.

Dre_00 said:

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Sounds like Hojlund will be announced/introduced in combination with this weekend's friendly against Lens.

Nathan Bishop joins Sunderland for an undisclosed fee (small I'm sure). EDIT: NM Showstopper beat me to it.

Decision on Greenwood to be announced imminently. Pretty much guaranteed to be a talking point no matter what they decide. I'd get rid of him yesterday but if I was a betting man, I'd bet that they will seek out a loan.

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The problem with Greenwood is he is worth nothing as a soccer player right now. And he could be worth $80MM or more. They are stuck with him and a loan is about all you can do short of paying him not to play.

I'm going to predict he goes out on loan and eventually ends back up on the team.

I would not get rid of him. Their justice system threw out the case. What else should be done? Loan him out. See what he does.

Real Sociedad interested in Donny, seems like we meed to move him and/or Fred to make room for Amrabat

Furlock Bones said:

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I would not get rid of him. Their justice system threw out the case. What else should be done? Loan him out. See what he does.

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The problem is everyone heard the recording, and the only reason the case isn't going forward is that she won't testify. It is kind of like the Ray Rice case.

Edit: that said, if I were betting, I would bet they loan him out.

Furlock Bones said:

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I would not get rid of him. Their justice system threw out the case. What else should be done? Loan him out. See what he does.

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I don't think what the justice system does or doesn't do is relevant. Is that the bar for an employer? They haven't been convicted or charged with a felony so therefore you should hire them or keep them employed?

That's clearly not the bar that any employer uses or would be expected to use. There are numerous reasons why an employer might fire or not hire someone that have nothing to do with on the job performance or doing something illegal.

And it is indisputable that he did do something. And what he did is more than enough, in my opinion, to get rid of him immediately or at least not play him until his contract runs out if there is, for some reason, a legal risk to terminating his contract early.

So about that Dean Henderson deal… the Tricky Trees may be brokey broke.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12368333/amp/Nottingham-Forest-owe-MILLIONS-overdue-payments-players-agents-legal-action-considered-dont-settled-debts-imminently.html

Not saying they are broke, but could explain why they want to buy Henderson on layaway. Unfortunately for us, there doesn't seem to be a big queue of teams lining up to buy Henderson.

Strong lineup today against Lens. Probably will be the starting lineup a week from Monday. Interestingly, still no Henderson on the bench. I haven't heard any number regarding a potential fee that Forest would pay for Turner but that deal does seem to be closer to completing than a move for Henderson. That said, while the USMNT fan in me would love to see Turner as Forest's number 1, the risk/reward feels much better for Henderson than for Turner.

Forest can not really afford to go down. Not after all that money they've thrown into the squad since coming up. Turner is 29 and has never played a PL game in his life. Henderson is 26 and has proven with both Sheffield United and Forest that he can be a reliable and good goalie for a PL team whose primary focus is to stay up.

Maybe none of that matters if Forest are broke and/or Arsenal are willing to let Turner go for next to nothing. But if Forest are spending even 10 million on Turner as opposed to 20 for Henderson, it would be a very poor choice, IMO.

Dre_00 said:

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Strong lineup today against Lens. Probably will be the starting lineup a week from Monday. Interestingly, still no Henderson on the bench. I haven't heard any number regarding a potential fee that Forest would pay for Turner but that deal does seem to be closer to completing than a move for Henderson. That said, while the USMNT fan in me would love to see Turner as Forest's number 1, the risk/reward feels much better for Henderson than for Turner.

Forest can not really afford to go down. Not after all that money they've thrown into the squad since coming up. Turner is 29 and has never played a PL game in his life. Henderson is 26 and has proven with both Sheffield United and Forest that he can be a reliable and good goalie for a PL team whose primary focus is to stay up.

Maybe none of that matters if Forest are broke and/or Arsenal are willing to let Turner go for next to nothing. But if Forest are spending even 10 million on Turner as opposed to 20 for Henderson, it would be a very poor choice, IMO.

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I think you over value a player who had little EPL experience and cannot seem to stay healthy.

Henderson has played 54 EPL games, 18 of which were with Forest. So they know what they are getting. Turner has played 0 EPL games. I'm not saying he's a grizzled vet but that's a very sizable difference especially when you are comparing it to 0 experience. And at 26, he could in theory be Forest's goalie for twice as long as Turner.

Henderson missed the last half of last season but other than that, he hasn't missed extended time. Turner has missed less but not drastically less. He missed 3 months in 2022 but no one noticed because he wasn't starting. In any case, I think Henderson's relative experience, success with Forest, and age outweigh any concerns because he missed the last half of last season but clearly an opinion and not a fact.

Dre_00 said:

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Henderson has played 54 EPL games, 18 of which were with Forest. So they know what they are getting. Turner has played 0 EPL games. I'm not saying he's a grizzled vet but that's a very sizable difference especially when you are comparing it to 0 experience. And at 26, he could in theory be Forest's goalie for twice as long as Turner.

Henderson missed the last half of last season but other than that, he hasn't missed extended time. Turner has missed less but not drastically less. He missed 3 months in 2022 but no one noticed because he wasn't starting. In any case, I think Henderson's relative experience, success with Forest, and age outweigh any concerns because he missed the last half of last season but clearly an opinion and not a fact.

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I didn't say anything about Turner, just overvaluing of Henderson. If Henderson were a proven, quality EPL keeper he would have more than one suitor. His current injured status has only exasperated the situation.

Turner is a proven national team keeper who hasn't been given an EPL chance yet.

Seems like Forest want both of them, if they can get Henderson on loan.

Well, Transfermarkt has Henderson valued at 18 million EUR and Turner at 8 million EUR. Both on contracts that end in 2025. Make of that what you will.

And Romano has given the Here We Go on Turner. I doubt that Forest are legitimately interested in Henderson and Turner. And the calculus for Henderson is different now too. At best, he knows he has to fight for the #1 spot if Forest come calling for his services.

This probably ends with Henderson staying at United and neither United or Henderson thrilled with the idea but also left with no better options.

I think Henderson probably stays, is the backup, and both the team and him have to hope someone needs a keeper in the winter window. I think the obligation to buy for forest depended on the number of games he started; if Turner is there to start, United can't really do a loan.

Honestly, we should have gotten the Forrest deal over the line in the early summer when it seemed like they wanted to do a straight purchase rather than sitting on it while we negotiated for Onana. Henderson was never going to be the starting keeper even if the Onana deal didn't get completed, so sitting on it was not that smart.

I kind of agree but think it's more about De Gea, then Henderson. The real issue is that they should have sorted out their goalie situation in May/June and not mid-July. They likely knew as early as April that De Gea wasn't the goalie they wanted to start the season. And maybe it makes sense to wait to make moves to replace until after the FA Cup. But that should have been their first move as soon as the season ended.

But once it was confirmed that De Gea was leaving on a free in early July, the die had already been cast. They kind of had to keep Henderson to at least suggest to Inter or anyone else that he was a viable option for them if they tried to double their asking price. If United are negotiating for Onana without a recognizable first team goalie under contract, they are going to get hosed at the negotiating table twice as hard as they normally do.

That's not really true though because you can say you like Onana, but you like Costa and you like Reya, and if there isn't a deal that can be done at a realistic valuation then you would get one of them. And Inter needed the money really badly because they are still trying to buy a striker and strikers are expensive (for everyone not just us). So I really don't think anyone was all that scared of the Dean Henderson threat.

What I think happened is that Forrest were willing to pay about 20M, we wanted to dicker over 5M like we did in all our other deals, then we put it off to do Onana and pretend like we might make Dean number one even though no one on the planet believes that is true. Somewhere in the interim, Forrest figured out their finances were worse than they thought, so then they tried to defer the transfer until really next year but get the player this year. And in the interim they found a keeper they liked that was cheaper. So in order to save a few mil we lost about 20M with no interested backup buyers (which we also presumably knew). And, hell, if the Onana deal didn't work we still could have potentially mended fences with de Gea; it's not like he's got a club either.

You got me so worked up about the Dean Henderson screw up I forgot about the news I came here to be happy about: West Ham have apparently upped their Maguire bid to 30M pounds and supposedly are making a similar offer for McTominay. If we are going to sell either of them… that's the most we will ever get. I don't know how West Ham will make Maguire's wages work, but I guess that's kind of their problem. We actually kind of need a reserve like McTominay but.., same thing, that's the most you will get so I hope they do it. That's almost as much as we are allegedly paying for Amrabat.

So, anyway, good news. Here's a link to the Guardian, but it's being reported by Sky, BBC, basically everywhere.

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2023/aug/07/west-ham-32m-ajax-midfielder-edson-alvarez