I'm still firmly on #TeamNoOneFlipsSides. Let my baddies stay baddies.

I don't want them to turn, I just want to see the empire crush them too… and for them to have that realization as they are crushed..

Agent Kallus flipped. Just sayin'

TCTTS said:

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She's an ISB officer, he's a disgraced private security seeking redemption. They look for Rebel but instead found love. COMING SOON TO DISNEY + : THE FAULT IN OUR DEATH STAR. #Andor pic.twitter.com/J1S5VBbsk5

— MajorStranger (@MajorStranger2) November 2, 2022

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Pretty sure I know who will be holding the whip in that bedroom!

One of the best little things in the recent episode was at the ISB meeting when it's wrapping up, Meero just gets up and starts going to do her part while still talking and the 2 other guys sit there waiting for the director to dismiss them...and he's like "sigh...these idiots"

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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And this could be what makes her turn away from the Empire. That moment she realizes they don't care about her and she's just a cog like everyone else.

She and Henry Thomas might end up joining the struggle purely out of revenge, with no pure motives whatsoever. Some nice gray characters that we rarely get in this universe.

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I think this show does an amazing job of subtly showing how under the empire, everyone is a slave of Palpatine. The prisoners are all essentially slave labor, and the tactics used to keep them in line are the same ones the ISB and imperials use on the outside. Everyone may be able to move around with some degree of freedom, but the galaxy is just a big prison and everything everyone does contributes to the empire, either through direct work or taxes. Even the ISB and imperials can be viewed as slaves. Meero and the ISB supervisors are the equivalent of Kino and the floor supervisors. They're prisoners themselves, pitted against each other through quotas and competition within their areas and charged with keeping their fellow prisoners in line, even if they're just in a different prison and don't see it. The empire, or moreso Palpatine, doesn't care about them the same way it doesn't care about the prisoners or floor supervisors. They're all disposable cogs. The difference is that Andor and the prisoners know it.

In some ways, the layers upon layers of the Empire is a bit odd for me to think about, because Palpatine is at the very top, and he's not just some power-hungry dictator, he's literally the most powerful person in the universe at the time who isn't in self-imposed exile on a swamp.

So while all of the mechanations are there to fulfill the Sith's desire for order in the galaxy, if any one problem really got crazily out of hand, he could personally go to the scene and kill every single person who was opposing him.

So when Mon Mothma is saying Palpatine issued this new decree saying these restrictions are in place, is Palpatine really laboring over his desk at night trying to get the wording right on some executive order? At this point in his story where he's gotten the literal revenge of the Sith, wiped out the Jedi down to less than a dozen) and has an enormous military?

That leads to the question of why they keep building so much of everything all the time anyways. In the EU, they explained it away as Palpatine sensing enemies beyond the Outer Rim (the Vong) that would someday attack the Empire but if you think about how huge of an army the Republic must have had at the end of the Clone Wars, what's his next step? 2 stormtroopers per every person in the galaxy?

It's pretty trivial I suppose, and more of a broad question of what do totalitarian dictators actually want. Palpatine doesn't give a **** about being rich, he's not hurting for a new wardrobe or trying to impress Mara Jade at Court, so what would the end game for Palpatine look like that isn't already there? Absolute complete order seems impossible in a galaxy of quadrillions.

By the way, I only slept 4 hours last night, so ignore this completely if you'd like.

jeffk said:

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Mathguy64 said:

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Agent Kallus flipped. Just sayin'

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Yeah, that's my big complaint with them doing it here. So far Andor has been a more gritty, adult Disney SW property. And the bad guy having the veil lifted and flipping to the good side has been done several other times in other SW titles (some pulled off well and others not so well). It's basically become a trope now and a well I'd prefer this series not run to.

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Its crazy to even read people on this thread wanting the same ****ty storytelling from previous movies/shows.

If you watch the original trilogy, what Palpatine wants is power. That's it. It doesn't matter what form it takes, only that he has it. As powerful as he is, he can't be everywhere at once. That's why he has the empire to carry out all of his orders and to maintain order.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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PatAg said:

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jeffk said:

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Mathguy64 said:

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Agent Kallus flipped. Just sayin'

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Yeah, that's my big complaint with them doing it here. So far Andor has been a more gritty, adult Disney SW property. And the bad guy having the veil lifted and flipping to the good side has been done several other times in other SW titles (some pulled off well and others not so well). It's basically become a trope now and a well I'd prefer this series not run to.

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Its crazy to even read people on this thread wanting the same ****ty storytelling from previous movies/shows.

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I think Meero and Karn are stuck between a rock and a hard place as far as plot and development are concerned. Both are a little too big to just kill off, but they need to develop if they're going to stay relevant. The question is, where to and how? Meero is already a villain and true believer in the empire, so the only direction is opposite that somehow. Same with Karn. He's obsessed with order and serving the empire, so for him to change and develop leaves little direction but following a trope.

If neither switches sides, the only place I see them going is together and/or disillusionment with the empire while still working within it to further their own ends using its power.

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For Karn...I definitely could see him taking his cult-like beliefs into a vigilante type role. Maybe he ends up finding a small rebel plot and jumps into action, and it ends up costing Meero a bigger catch.

For Meero, I don't know that she needs an arc. She's the "face" of the Empire for this show. She's the villain. She either is defeated at some point...or....catches the eyes of a cold, calculating, blue-skinned Grand Admiral and gets scooped up for another show.

Usually, these things are really simple and straight forward. Karn is gonna push too far and get sent to Kessel.

The slow build is excellent. Very little action this last episode but it's so intense because there are multiple story lines about to snap and all hell will break loose. Just deep deep character and story line building. Why couldn't they have done this more?

ABATTBQ11 said:

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12 episode season gives a lot more time for a slow build.

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7 episodes are him trying to reprogram K2 and getting all kinds of hilarious results.

Mr. T's voice
Harvey Firestein's voice
All in Huttese
etc

An L of an Ag said:

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Just watched that latest episode and I gotta say it's some pretty depressing ***** I mean, I love the production of this series, but this is 2 or 3 downer episodes in a row.

If I wanted this sort of fatalistic drudgery, I'd watch our football games this season.

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If Jimbo Fisher had been General Dodonna, the X-Wings and Y-Wings would have flown at the Death Star in a single row and been destroyed in the first 15 seconds.

Prosperdick said:

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Andor has good writing, acting, and direction. Boba Fett did not

Don't forget good cinematography.

By the way that video just makes me all the more aware of how much better this show is than Obi-Wan, which is sad to admit.

Y'all know there's not a bigger prequel fan/apologist than me, and Obi-Wan is my favorite character, but by about episode three, I had a combination of excitement and dread at the next episode, because I was worried what else was gonna be bad/cringe worthy that week.

There is none of that here. I'm equally or even more excited for this next episode than I was for anything in Obi-Wan.

Obi-Wan deserved better. How I wish they'd gotten good writers, directors, and everything else they did for Andor.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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By the way that video just makes me all the more aware of how much better this show is than Obi-Wan, which is sad to admit.

Y'all know there's not a bigger prequel fan/apologist than me, and Obi-Wan is my favorite character, but by about episode three, I had a combination of excitement and dread at the next episode, because I was worried what else was gonna be bad/cringe worthy that week.

There is none of that here. I'm equally or even more excited for this next episode than I was for anything in Obi-Wan.

Obi-Wan deserved better. How I wish they'd gotten good writers, directors, and everything else they did for Andor.

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Yea, we can still like aspects of the show while understanding it was just not good enough. Same for Boba-Fett.
If we are fortunate, Andor will hopefully raise the standard for future shows of what should be acceptable by the producers

Clarke95 said:

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veryfuller said:

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I think Meero is going to kill her current assistant. He was a bit overly ambitious in this last episode and she took note. She will replace him with Syril. He will be easier to keep loyal and control. Just my theory.

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Interesting, I saw her take note with satisfaction that the two of them are totally in sync on the mission. Both are excellent at their jobs and ruthlessly thorough and efficient. They know what levers and systems to activate within the Empire's machine to get the job done. Syril is thirsty, desperate and unprofessional which is off-putting to her.

This show is so damn good.

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This. She was very content that her unit is running like a well-oiled machine.

If there is to be any added difficulty on her side of things, it will be from her boss's boss or from the guy who had the Ferrix problem stripped from him and handed to her.

Just caught up on the shows last night.

Should have watched them between 11am and 2:30pm yesterday.