Rogue One in my mind wasn't meant for mass appeal. The rest of the recent SW films are which is why they fail on a fundamental plot stand point. Mass appeal and money will unfortunately only give us a sub .200 batting average when it comes to decent SW movies and TV.
*** OBI-WAN KENOBI *** (Disney+ Series)
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Last: 2 yr ago by oragator
Good post. Those numbers don't lie.helloimustbegoing said:The Force Awakens $2.069 billion at the box office (3rd all time)Rex Racer said:
It is past time for Kathleen Kennedy to retire. The failure rate has been far too high. How the heck is she still surviving, professionally?
The Last Jedi $1.332 billion at the box office (15th all time)
The Rise of Skywalker $1.074 billion at the box office (34th all time)
Rogue One: $1.056 billion at the box office (39th all time)
Disney Plus shows ranked in terms of total viewing minutes
1. Mando Season 2: 8.38 billion minutes
2. Mando Season 1: 5.42 billion minutes
3. Loki: 5.23 billion minutes
4. Wandavision: 4.8 billion minutes
5. Book of Boba Fett 4.4 billion minutes
6. Falcon and the Winter Soldier: 4.15 billion minutes
7. Hawkeye: 3.46 billion minutes.
Obi-Wan Kenobi's first 2 episodes are the largest original series premiere ever for Disney+ and only the second non-movie release on the platform to get more than 1 billion viewing minutes in a weekend (Loki was the other).
Head to head, the first episode of Obi-Wan had 6.2 million viewers, more than the first episode of Stranger Things (6.0 million) on the first day of release. Stranger things has surpassed Obi-Wan since, comparing the first episode of both shows, but at the end o the first weekend, it was still pretty close - 12.7 million for ST and 11.1 million for Obi-Wan. Given Stranger Things has 3 previous seasons of fan base and it has been a hot minute since it was last on TV, that's pretty stiff competition from Obi-Wan.
If you did a highlight reel of the greatest parts of SW over the past decade, I imagine most people would feel pretty joyful at the end of it. Han, Leia, Luke & Lando back on the big screen, Mando, Grogu, post-ROTJ Luke digitally recreated, live action versions of Bo Katan and Ahsoka Tano and Cad Bane. Vader at the end of Rogue One, and so on and so forth, lots of fans would say damn, that's a pretty good decade.
So while there is certainly a loud online voice of dislike, disdain, and some out and out hatred of KK, Disney, and the direction SW has taken in the past 10 years, the numbers certainly say otherwise. And the numbers come from people embracing those properties and spending their time and money on them.
With a great and cohesive story those numbers could have beaten the top Marvel movies. As crazy as it sounds given those numbers, Disney is settling, IMO.maroon man said:Good post. Those numbers don't lie.helloimustbegoing said:The Force Awakens $2.069 billion at the box office (3rd all time)Rex Racer said:
It is past time for Kathleen Kennedy to retire. The failure rate has been far too high. How the heck is she still surviving, professionally?
The Last Jedi $1.332 billion at the box office (15th all time)
The Rise of Skywalker $1.074 billion at the box office (34th all time)
Rogue One: $1.056 billion at the box office (39th all time)
Disney Plus shows ranked in terms of total viewing minutes
1. Mando Season 2: 8.38 billion minutes
2. Mando Season 1: 5.42 billion minutes
3. Loki: 5.23 billion minutes
4. Wandavision: 4.8 billion minutes
5. Book of Boba Fett 4.4 billion minutes
6. Falcon and the Winter Soldier: 4.15 billion minutes
7. Hawkeye: 3.46 billion minutes.
Obi-Wan Kenobi's first 2 episodes are the largest original series premiere ever for Disney+ and only the second non-movie release on the platform to get more than 1 billion viewing minutes in a weekend (Loki was the other).
Head to head, the first episode of Obi-Wan had 6.2 million viewers, more than the first episode of Stranger Things (6.0 million) on the first day of release. Stranger things has surpassed Obi-Wan since, comparing the first episode of both shows, but at the end o the first weekend, it was still pretty close - 12.7 million for ST and 11.1 million for Obi-Wan. Given Stranger Things has 3 previous seasons of fan base and it has been a hot minute since it was last on TV, that's pretty stiff competition from Obi-Wan.
If you did a highlight reel of the greatest parts of SW over the past decade, I imagine most people would feel pretty joyful at the end of it. Han, Leia, Luke & Lando back on the big screen, Mando, Grogu, post-ROTJ Luke digitally recreated, live action versions of Bo Katan and Ahsoka Tano and Cad Bane. Vader at the end of Rogue One, and so on and so forth, lots of fans would say damn, that's a pretty good decade.
So while there is certainly a loud online voice of dislike, disdain, and some out and out hatred of KK, Disney, and the direction SW has taken in the past 10 years, the numbers certainly say otherwise. And the numbers come from people embracing those properties and spending their time and money on them.
Brian Earl Spilner said:
And now with Obi-Wan being a mixed bag among the fans, we've got Andor coming up and that might be just the thing Star Wars tv needs.
if Obi-Wan fumbles than people might start experiencing Star Wars fatigue and not tune into Andor. Similar to how Solo suffered due to The Last Jedi fallout.
It's kind of been said in the last few posts, but not directly. The word you're looking for is PROJECTIONS.
Ep 8 and 9 came in below projected revenue estimates. Part of that was unrealistic expectations for China and the far east, but revenues were off projections. If the numbers were as great as you guys are postulating, then we'd be having a new SW movie every two years for the foreseeable future. Plus Disney executives themselves have said they needed to pause and reevaluate the franchise. Are there any Star Wars movies currently shooting right now? I mean Marvel was putting out multiple movies a year, (and please let me know if I'm wrong) with more in advanced stages of production.
The early success of Disney+ and Mando has led Lucasfilm back into a pattern of all Star Wars is good Star Wars. Something I would like to see, and maybe some of the insiders have this info, are the production costs per episode for the streaming series. Are they going up, the same, or down over time? Is Kennedy keeping expenditures in line with expectations? Keeping costs down have kept many a manager in their jobs before. Revenues alone are not the full mark of success. I mean Solo made about $400 Million at the box office. Low for Star Wars but not a bad number until you mention it cost over $300 Million to make and market. I can guarantee that Disney expected to profit many times over $100 Million on that film.
Ep 8 and 9 came in below projected revenue estimates. Part of that was unrealistic expectations for China and the far east, but revenues were off projections. If the numbers were as great as you guys are postulating, then we'd be having a new SW movie every two years for the foreseeable future. Plus Disney executives themselves have said they needed to pause and reevaluate the franchise. Are there any Star Wars movies currently shooting right now? I mean Marvel was putting out multiple movies a year, (and please let me know if I'm wrong) with more in advanced stages of production.
The early success of Disney+ and Mando has led Lucasfilm back into a pattern of all Star Wars is good Star Wars. Something I would like to see, and maybe some of the insiders have this info, are the production costs per episode for the streaming series. Are they going up, the same, or down over time? Is Kennedy keeping expenditures in line with expectations? Keeping costs down have kept many a manager in their jobs before. Revenues alone are not the full mark of success. I mean Solo made about $400 Million at the box office. Low for Star Wars but not a bad number until you mention it cost over $300 Million to make and market. I can guarantee that Disney expected to profit many times over $100 Million on that film.
Yep Disney is settling. They could have just made the Thrawn series as Episode 7-9, made 5 times what they did, still had people complain it wasn't like the book, and STILL had them coming back for more such as Rogue squadron. IdiotsRex Racer said:With a great and cohesive story those numbers could have beaten the top Marvel movies. As crazy as it sounds given those numbers, Disney is settling, IMO.maroon man said:Good post. Those numbers don't lie.helloimustbegoing said:The Force Awakens $2.069 billion at the box office (3rd all time)Rex Racer said:
It is past time for Kathleen Kennedy to retire. The failure rate has been far too high. How the heck is she still surviving, professionally?
The Last Jedi $1.332 billion at the box office (15th all time)
The Rise of Skywalker $1.074 billion at the box office (34th all time)
Rogue One: $1.056 billion at the box office (39th all time)
Disney Plus shows ranked in terms of total viewing minutes
1. Mando Season 2: 8.38 billion minutes
2. Mando Season 1: 5.42 billion minutes
3. Loki: 5.23 billion minutes
4. Wandavision: 4.8 billion minutes
5. Book of Boba Fett 4.4 billion minutes
6. Falcon and the Winter Soldier: 4.15 billion minutes
7. Hawkeye: 3.46 billion minutes.
Obi-Wan Kenobi's first 2 episodes are the largest original series premiere ever for Disney+ and only the second non-movie release on the platform to get more than 1 billion viewing minutes in a weekend (Loki was the other).
Head to head, the first episode of Obi-Wan had 6.2 million viewers, more than the first episode of Stranger Things (6.0 million) on the first day of release. Stranger things has surpassed Obi-Wan since, comparing the first episode of both shows, but at the end o the first weekend, it was still pretty close - 12.7 million for ST and 11.1 million for Obi-Wan. Given Stranger Things has 3 previous seasons of fan base and it has been a hot minute since it was last on TV, that's pretty stiff competition from Obi-Wan.
If you did a highlight reel of the greatest parts of SW over the past decade, I imagine most people would feel pretty joyful at the end of it. Han, Leia, Luke & Lando back on the big screen, Mando, Grogu, post-ROTJ Luke digitally recreated, live action versions of Bo Katan and Ahsoka Tano and Cad Bane. Vader at the end of Rogue One, and so on and so forth, lots of fans would say damn, that's a pretty good decade.
So while there is certainly a loud online voice of dislike, disdain, and some out and out hatred of KK, Disney, and the direction SW has taken in the past 10 years, the numbers certainly say otherwise. And the numbers come from people embracing those properties and spending their time and money on them.
Kurt Russell for Talon Karrde!Arrakis ecologist said:Yep Disney is settling. They could have just made the Thrawn series as Episode 7-9, made 5 times what they did, still had people complain it wasn't like the book, and STILL had them coming back for more such as Rogue squadron. IdiotsRex Racer said:With a great and cohesive story those numbers could have beaten the top Marvel movies. As crazy as it sounds given those numbers, Disney is settling, IMO.maroon man said:Good post. Those numbers don't lie.helloimustbegoing said:The Force Awakens $2.069 billion at the box office (3rd all time)Rex Racer said:
It is past time for Kathleen Kennedy to retire. The failure rate has been far too high. How the heck is she still surviving, professionally?
The Last Jedi $1.332 billion at the box office (15th all time)
The Rise of Skywalker $1.074 billion at the box office (34th all time)
Rogue One: $1.056 billion at the box office (39th all time)
Disney Plus shows ranked in terms of total viewing minutes
1. Mando Season 2: 8.38 billion minutes
2. Mando Season 1: 5.42 billion minutes
3. Loki: 5.23 billion minutes
4. Wandavision: 4.8 billion minutes
5. Book of Boba Fett 4.4 billion minutes
6. Falcon and the Winter Soldier: 4.15 billion minutes
7. Hawkeye: 3.46 billion minutes.
Obi-Wan Kenobi's first 2 episodes are the largest original series premiere ever for Disney+ and only the second non-movie release on the platform to get more than 1 billion viewing minutes in a weekend (Loki was the other).
Head to head, the first episode of Obi-Wan had 6.2 million viewers, more than the first episode of Stranger Things (6.0 million) on the first day of release. Stranger things has surpassed Obi-Wan since, comparing the first episode of both shows, but at the end o the first weekend, it was still pretty close - 12.7 million for ST and 11.1 million for Obi-Wan. Given Stranger Things has 3 previous seasons of fan base and it has been a hot minute since it was last on TV, that's pretty stiff competition from Obi-Wan.
If you did a highlight reel of the greatest parts of SW over the past decade, I imagine most people would feel pretty joyful at the end of it. Han, Leia, Luke & Lando back on the big screen, Mando, Grogu, post-ROTJ Luke digitally recreated, live action versions of Bo Katan and Ahsoka Tano and Cad Bane. Vader at the end of Rogue One, and so on and so forth, lots of fans would say damn, that's a pretty good decade.
So while there is certainly a loud online voice of dislike, disdain, and some out and out hatred of KK, Disney, and the direction SW has taken in the past 10 years, the numbers certainly say otherwise. And the numbers come from people embracing those properties and spending their time and money on them.
Spilner's pants exploding when Elizabeth Olson cast as Mara Jade
Jeff Bridges as Joruus C'baoth
Life is better with a beagle
I'd what the crap out of that.
But I'd like to propose Christina Hendricks as Mara Jade.
But I'd like to propose Christina Hendricks as Mara Jade.
The TexAgs Committee to Cast the Thrawn Trilogy will be 98% discussion Mara Jadechase128 said:
I'd what the crap out of that.
But I'd like to propose Christina Hendricks as Mara Jade.
Life is better with a beagle
Too fat.
In today's climate, Jessica Chastain probably gets it
redline248 said:
In today's climate, Jessica Chastain probably gets it
So Disney could go cheap with Bryce Dallas Howard
Door #3
Life is better with a beagle
I love her
This is the correct answer.
redline248 said:
In today's climate, Jessica Chastain probably gets it
Nope, leslie jones. I'm not wrong.
Arrakis ecologist said:Yep Disney is settling. TheyRex Racer said:
With a great and cohesive story those numbers could have beaten the top Marvel movies. As crazy as it sounds given those numbers, Disney is settling, IMO.couldshould have just made the Thrawn series as Episode 7-9, made 5 times what they did, still had people complain it wasn't like the book, and STILL had them coming back for more such as Rogue squadron. Idiots
helloimustbegoing said:
Door #3
Fighting Texas Aggie Class of 2012
This should have been an animated series.
I'll let these speak for themselves.
Those give a decent enough idea of how it would have been better, and just made sense because that's Vader's music after all.Brian Earl Spilner said:
I'll let these speak for themselves.
It should be even better, because those scenes are just reusing variations that were created for other scenes in the star wars universe. For Obi-Wan we would have gotten new ones that would better fit the scenes we see him in.
Someone else (multiple people probably) have said it already, but I don't think there is any reason to settle for 'oh look it's obi-wan' or 'oh look it's vader'. You can absolutely expect/want a high level of quality from these Star Wars shows. I don't care that people like to say "it was for kids". In fact, you can do both, you can make shows/movies that are aimed at kids and shows/movies that are more mature.
Word. Well stated.
Just caught up and skimmed this thread. I think the best quote I saw here was along the lines "It's good for what it is but bad for what I wanted it to be".
The story is told very weakly. The chase scenes and constantly just strolling around in clear sight when everyone is looking for them is just lazy I agree.
As for the look, honestly sometimes I think it is the best looking and sometimes the worst. To me Mando and Boba look too tv like sometimes and don't have a film look to them. Obi-wan has the film look I like a lot but some shots and CG look the worst.
In short it's all over the place. With the money Disney has I don't understand how they can't hire first class writers to pull these off a little better. I mean Mad Men, Breaking Bad, The Wire, etc. the golden age of TV. You're telling me some of those writers aren't also Star Wars nerds and you can't get them to write an episode with plot, character development, and dialog.
The story is told very weakly. The chase scenes and constantly just strolling around in clear sight when everyone is looking for them is just lazy I agree.
As for the look, honestly sometimes I think it is the best looking and sometimes the worst. To me Mando and Boba look too tv like sometimes and don't have a film look to them. Obi-wan has the film look I like a lot but some shots and CG look the worst.
In short it's all over the place. With the money Disney has I don't understand how they can't hire first class writers to pull these off a little better. I mean Mad Men, Breaking Bad, The Wire, etc. the golden age of TV. You're telling me some of those writers aren't also Star Wars nerds and you can't get them to write an episode with plot, character development, and dialog.
Behind on the thread but I feel the same overall vibe as I did in Boba Fett... I don't feel like they had a story they wanted to tell, here. I'm not sure what the ambition is for the series, going in.
Agree 100%
Thanks and gig'em
The ambition is purely monetary.
They have to keep those D+ subs rolling in, and they know people will watch Star Wars, no matter what.
They have to keep those D+ subs rolling in, and they know people will watch Star Wars, no matter what.
redline248 said:
The ambition is purely monetary.
They have to keep those D+ subs rolling in, and they know people will watch Star Wars, no matter what.
But to Jim's point, there's no reason NOT to be ambitious. Mando took huge swings and big risks everywhere.
The hook here is solid. What could pull Kenobi away from guarding Luke? Having to rescue Leia. I dig that, it works. Kinda complicates some things in ANH but they've done okay at writing around it.
But he's saved her twice now. So... now what?
I disagree respectively. They marketed this to the Gen X and Gen Y long time fandom. We were made to believe this would be some gritty tale of Kenobi adapting to life on Tatooine, quietly safeguarding young Luke. Tatooine, a planet we all know is rife with danger - bounty hunters, mafia, Tusken Raiders, and the eye of the Imperials.
Instead we got defeated Ben chasing sassy pants Leia across the galaxy. Really kind of irritating when you think about it. Leia was adopted by a very wealthy, powerful, family that runs a peaceful, rich, planet that looks like Aspen. Meanwhile, Obi take Luke to live in the galactic version of a mobile home community "somewhere north of Lubbock". Yet Leia needs help more than Luke? LOL.
It's "Nickelodeon Disney". At best, dominating the series with babysitting Leia should have been a S2 idea.
Instead we got defeated Ben chasing sassy pants Leia across the galaxy. Really kind of irritating when you think about it. Leia was adopted by a very wealthy, powerful, family that runs a peaceful, rich, planet that looks like Aspen. Meanwhile, Obi take Luke to live in the galactic version of a mobile home community "somewhere north of Lubbock". Yet Leia needs help more than Luke? LOL.
It's "Nickelodeon Disney". At best, dominating the series with babysitting Leia should have been a S2 idea.
Another series on Tatooine is not something I was particularly hoping for tbh
While I understand this sentiment I think it could have been good if done well. Also maybe a plot point could have been something that takes Luke off world. That would break up the repetitiveness of being on Tatooine while still focusing on Bens main mission.
I think this brings up another point/issue I have with Star Wars. More is not more. I don't need six new worlds and twenty new species in every show/movie. Specifically in this series on the planet that was basically a big downtown area, we see like a dozen new creatures in one sweep of the camera, including the guy that's basically a human crocodile. I mean if you digging the barrel for ideas so much that a human crocodile is the best you got then maybe we don't need that new species. Maybe just use one of the other a hundred established species in the universe. Don't introduce new things unless they are needed or super cool.
I think this brings up another point/issue I have with Star Wars. More is not more. I don't need six new worlds and twenty new species in every show/movie. Specifically in this series on the planet that was basically a big downtown area, we see like a dozen new creatures in one sweep of the camera, including the guy that's basically a human crocodile. I mean if you digging the barrel for ideas so much that a human crocodile is the best you got then maybe we don't need that new species. Maybe just use one of the other a hundred established species in the universe. Don't introduce new things unless they are needed or super cool.
Have it to where no one (even inquisitors) knows vaders real name.
She's already met Owen, I can't remember if he said his last name or not. If not add it in.
They know that Vader wants obi Wan, but they just figure it's bc he and Yoda are the only living members of the jedi council.
In the 3rd episode when Vader shows up, obi Wan sees this bad ass sith lord but doesn't know its anakin. During their fight, Vader mentions how rusty obi Wan has gotten since he quartered him and left him to die. Obi Wan then has the flashback to anakin crying in the lava, and says "Anakin....skywalker?" third sister is listening from the shadows and realizes the possible connection to Owen, but she recapture Leia, so puts it off for later.
After they escape again in episode 4, you can have 3rd sister go rogue and return to tatooine where the final showdown is over Luke. She doesn't tell anyone else where she is going, so when obi Wan eventually kills her, Luke's secret is still safe from the empire.
For this to work though, Luke would have to be unconscious, in Carbonite, or have his memory force-wiped, so he doesn't remember it in episode 4.
She's already met Owen, I can't remember if he said his last name or not. If not add it in.
They know that Vader wants obi Wan, but they just figure it's bc he and Yoda are the only living members of the jedi council.
In the 3rd episode when Vader shows up, obi Wan sees this bad ass sith lord but doesn't know its anakin. During their fight, Vader mentions how rusty obi Wan has gotten since he quartered him and left him to die. Obi Wan then has the flashback to anakin crying in the lava, and says "Anakin....skywalker?" third sister is listening from the shadows and realizes the possible connection to Owen, but she recapture Leia, so puts it off for later.
After they escape again in episode 4, you can have 3rd sister go rogue and return to tatooine where the final showdown is over Luke. She doesn't tell anyone else where she is going, so when obi Wan eventually kills her, Luke's secret is still safe from the empire.
For this to work though, Luke would have to be unconscious, in Carbonite, or have his memory force-wiped, so he doesn't remember it in episode 4.
I think this is objectively wrong.
Darth Vader has been a significant fixture in the marketing of this show and there's absolutely no way any interaction between Obi Wan and Vader could take place on Tatooine. So it's been clear the whole way that the show was going to have to get him off planet, and we even saw that in the trailers.
If you thought the whole show was going to take place on tatooine then you weren't really paying attention to the marketing.
Darth Vader has been a significant fixture in the marketing of this show and there's absolutely no way any interaction between Obi Wan and Vader could take place on Tatooine. So it's been clear the whole way that the show was going to have to get him off planet, and we even saw that in the trailers.
If you thought the whole show was going to take place on tatooine then you weren't really paying attention to the marketing.
What's weird about the music is it's the same person that did Loki and I thought she absolutely nailed it on that show.
Plus she also claims to be a massive John Williams fan.
Maybe she's TOO reverential to where she refuses to use his music out of respect? Or, she's full of *****
Maybe she's TOO reverential to where she refuses to use his music out of respect? Or, she's full of *****