*** OBI-WAN KENOBI *** (Disney+ Series)

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bobinator
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10:06a, 6/23/22
AG
You could write a book on the problems with this show but you can also just boil it down to one simple aspect that captures the whole thing:

What was the point of Reva seeking out Luke? What was the possible end game there with any outcome? She kills him and... what? Vader takes her back? "Yes, thank you, I know you tried to literally stab me in the back and you tried to kill the grand inquisitor and we know we can't trust you at all but you killed this one random child that we don't care about at all in the desert, so welcome back to the team!"
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Dro07
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 10:12a, 6/23/22
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
uhhhh thats obviously photoshopped. They do not look like clones
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Dro07
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In reply to Stewade • 10:14a, 6/23/22
AG
Stewade said:
The frustrating thing to me about Reva is that a former youngling who survived Order 66 and was recruited to become an Inquisitor is a really interesting character idea (IMO). There should be a ton of great material there to develop a solid character and they just completely botched it.
They should have just copied what they did in Fallen Order... They did pretty much the same thing but a ton better. They had the material but chose not to use it.
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TXAG 05
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10:15a, 6/23/22
AG
I just want to know how Vader got back to his Star Destroyer so quickly after ObiWan and gang escape. He watches the ship fly off, then fights Reva, then somehow get his shuttle back to the Star Destroyer and is already in pursuit when this episode begins
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bobinator
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In reply to TXAG 05 • 10:16a, 6/23/22
AG
C'mon did you see that ship, practically limping through space. Vader just jumped in his ship and caught up to them.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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10:18a, 6/23/22
AG
It's pretty crazy there wasn't a single TIE fighter to pursue the refugees while Vader went after Obi-Wan.
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bobinator
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 10:20a, 6/23/22
AG
These are early days of the empire! Plenty of ships, not enough pilots. They're so busy trying to project power that these ships are being run by skeleton crews!
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Brian Earl Spilner
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10:21a, 6/23/22
AG


Timestamped to Neeson giving an Andrew Garfield level performance last year.
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The Collective
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In reply to DrEvazanPhD • 11:06a, 6/23/22
AG
DrEvazanPhD said:
I thought finn had a great start...then they turned him into a buffoon sidekickk. God it was awful.


The moment Finn's arc was on the right track after they had screwed it up...
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Chipotlemonger
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In reply to bobinator • 11:08a, 6/23/22
AG
bobinator said:
If they're going to keep making shows in the Skywalker timeline, that's definitely the best mine for ideas. People who consider themselves good guys, but for whatever reason have had to do bad things to survive or whatever.

That's why I'm somewhat optimistic for Andor. This show has the potential to show characters flirting with that "too far" line on both sides. What are you willing to do to keep you cover with the empire, what are you willing to do in the name of the rebellion?


This second paragraph is fine, but I'm not holding my breath after this Obi Wan show. They'll water it down I bet.
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Chipotlemonger
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In reply to The Collective • 11:09a, 6/23/22
AG
Yep. Worst part of that entire movie. It would have been such a great arc.
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PatAg
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In reply to jackie childs • 11:17a, 6/23/22
AG
jackie childs said:
KCup17 said:
I specifically tried to not grow jaded towards characters throughout the series but dang Reva was a trash character in this series. What an unsatisfactory end to her character arc...
heard it suggested on a podcast that you could have fixed her arc by simply making her not realize that anakin was vader.

thinking that through, you can explain her following vader because she wants revenge on anakin and the rest of the jedi. she does bad things with vader to do that, but she's blinded by the need for revenge.

then you have kenobi tell her at the door in episode 5 that anakin is vader and it shakes everything she's thought. that causes her to impulsively attack anakin/vader and leaves her for dead. then you could have one of the other inquisitors find the transmission from Bail about Luke and that inquisitor decides he's going to Tatooine to find the boy that Bail speaks of.

then on Tatooine, you could let Reva be the one to save Luke from the other inquisitor, but she dies in the process. that gives her character a full redemption arc as she does what Anakin failed to do...protect the force sensitive child, and dies at peace.
I like a lot of that, and I guess you would just have to accept that Vader randomly really wants to kill Obi-Wan. (from Reva's pov)
Then you still have Reva making the connection between Obi-Wan and Bail Organa, so she has Leia kidnapped to draw Obi-Wan out.
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Dro07
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In reply to The Collective • 11:20a, 6/23/22
AG
The Collective said:
DrEvazanPhD said:
I thought finn had a great start...then they turned him into a buffoon sidekickk. God it was awful.


The moment Finn's arc was on the right track after they had screwed it up...
Shhhhhh all you need is love...
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twilly
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11:21a, 6/23/22
AG
The only thing I can think of about Reva going after Luke was she also wanted revenge/hurt Obi Wan for not being around to save the younglings. She's looking to lash out at somebody and killing Luke would stain Obi Wan as a complete failure.
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Rex Racer
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In reply to JCRiley09 • 11:26a, 6/23/22
AG
JCRiley09 said:
I haven't read the whole thread so apologies in advance. I've actually avoided it because I like the show, and well… not everyone here does.

All I could think about when Obi Wan walked away from Vader was Alderaan. That decision destroyed a whole planet that included his "friends" who he's trusted so much with watching Leia. Dude just left a Sith Lord chillin. Again.

All they had to do was have him sense Luke in trouble first, then he's justified in leaving. But nope. He goes back to Alderaan and everyone is all smiles. And all I can think is Obi Wan signed all their death sentences.
Vader did not give the order to blow up Alderaan. That was Tarkin.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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12:31p, 6/23/22
AG
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bluefire579
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12:37p, 6/23/22
AG
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Mathguy64
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1:57p, 6/23/22
AG
I think they did about the best the could story wise. The problem is there is a lot of canon. Not just the movies and their characters and dialogue both before and after Kenobi but you also have all the Clone Wars and more importantly here Rebels history to work in. It creates a pretty narrow channel to navigate. Rogue 1 was easier as it only needed to end correctly. They had all new characters with no back story and all they had to do was steal the plans.
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Flashdiaz
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In reply to Mathguy64 • 2:00p, 6/23/22
AG
Mathguy64 said:
I think they did about the best the could story wise.
disagree completely. I've read better ideas in the last 4 pages than what they gave us.

Frustrating part is it's not that hard.
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The Porkchop Express
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 2:53p, 6/23/22
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Some of my favorite reactors; their reactions to the Anakin mask scene and Qui-Gon are pretty much me.



Thanks for posting these! When I'm down, I love watching the compilation one for the Season 2 finale of Mando. Pure joy.
Life is better with a beagle
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bobinator
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In reply to Flashdiaz • 3:00p, 6/23/22
AG
Yeah, there really isn't that much canon to deal with here. There's very little established on what was going on with Obi Wan during this period. It's not like trying to set a new show during the clone wars or something.
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Saxsoon
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 3:03p, 6/23/22
AG
helloimustbegoing said:
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Some of my favorite reactors; their reactions to the Anakin mask scene and Qui-Gon are pretty much me.



Thanks for posting these! When I'm down, I love watching the compilation one for the Season 2 finale of Mando. Pure joy.


Same
Fighting Texas Aggie Class of 2012
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cbr
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 3:18p, 6/23/22
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
It's pretty crazy there wasn't a single TIE fighter to pursue the refugees while Vader went after Obi-Wan.
well, of course, the ****ing cruiser was nowhere to be found when kenobi farted off the planet in an old junker either.

so many plot holes i didnt even bother to comment on any of them, but since you brought it up.
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cbr
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In reply to Dro07 • 3:19p, 6/23/22
AG
Dro07 said:
Brian Earl Spilner said:
uhhhh thats obviously photoshopped. They do not look like clones
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cbr
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In reply to DrEvazanPhD • 3:21p, 6/23/22
AG
DrEvazanPhD said:
Stewade said:
The frustrating thing to me about Reva is that a former youngling who survived Order 66 and was recruited to become an Inquisitor is a really interesting character idea (IMO). There should be a ton of great material there to develop a solid character and they just completely botched it.

Reminds me of how I felt about Finn: I loved the idea of a former Stormtrooper who turned good and they botched that character too.
I thought finn had a great start...then they turned him into a buffoon sidekickk. God it was awful.
when you type into a script introduction -

flinn, the 'reformed stormtrooper character with a conscience' you think - man, this is going to be great!

then, the movie starts.
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Mathguy64
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In reply to bobinator • 3:35p, 6/23/22
AG
bobinator said:
Yeah, there really isn't that much canon to deal with here. There's very little established on what was going on with Obi Wan during this period. It's not like trying to set a new show during the clone wars or something.


Except they had a ton of constraints. They decided you bring Inquisitors to the table. We already knew the GI and how he died and we knew 7th sister and 5th brother. They made up 3rd sister and when she stabbed the GI we already knew he had to survive.

We knew the inquisitors were basically idiots or incompetent from Rebels so they all had to play that part.

We know that Vader or Kenobi didn't kill each other so if they met they had to not kill each other. And you were stuck with the famous line "the last time you were the master" that Vader utters so we knew if they met and fought that Vader had to lose.

We knew Luke had no real knowledge or interaction with ObiWan so that is all hands off here.

We know Obi Wan kills Maul so at one point he can't stay hidden forever or a force nobody forever. Once they showed he was doing that they have to slowly show him get it back. Because we all know how Maul goes.

He was supposed to learn to commune with Qui-Jonn. Now we know how that happened. And that it did happen.

Even Owen's antagonism towards Obi Wan from the beginning of E4 has to show up here.

They didn't have as much freedom as you think.

Could they have done better? Sure. But it was still a pretty narrow path they had to work in. And any future season is even narrower.

I think they could bring Rebels in S2. They could do the live action of that whole Rebels story arc with Obi Wan. They could even have him and Ashoka go look for Ezra.
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TexasAggie_02
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In reply to Mathguy64 • 3:44p, 6/23/22
AG
Quote:
We knew Luke had no real knowledge or interaction with ObiWan so that is all hands off here.
except he did meet obi-wan.

i doubt in the next 9-10 years that he totally forgets that while living out in the desert with not a lot of human interaction.
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bobinator
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In reply to Mathguy64 • 3:47p, 6/23/22
AG
I mean almost all of the things you bring up are things they chose to do. They didn't have to use the inquisitors at all, and I also don't think they have to be "basically idiots or incompetent" just because that's how they were in Rebels. I like the animated shows, but a live action show does not need to be beholden to the tone of a show that was made mostly for kids on the Disney Channel.

Using Luke and Leia was also a choice they made. They didn't have to do that either. And once they did the only real thing that mattered was that Luke couldn't be too involved. (Although why they chose to involve him at all is a mystery to me.)

The show is called 'Obi Wan Kenobi' so obviously he's going to have some kind of character arc and it's not going to end with him being a forceless bum in the desert.

This show had like three rules it really had to play by:
- Obi Wan and Vader can't die
- Their last interaction has to be won by Obi Wan and Vader can't know where he went afterwards
- Qui Gon had to show up at some point, or his absence needed to be addressed.

That's really it. Everything else was a choice that they made, so if it's an error, it's an unforced error. That's not a narrow path at all.
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The Collective
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 3:48p, 6/23/22
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Some of my favorite reactors; their reactions to the Anakin mask scene and Qui-Gon are pretty much me.





Thanks for posting. Personally, I like Jay & Adam. Good dudes.
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Rex Racer
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In reply to TexasAggie_02 • 3:49p, 6/23/22
AG
TexasAggie_02 said:
Quote:
We knew Luke had no real knowledge or interaction with ObiWan so that is all hands off here.
except he did meet obi-wan.

i doubt in the next 9-10 years that he totally forgets that while living out in the desert with not a lot of human interaction.
We actually don't know how much interaction Luke has over the years with "Ben". Luke obviously at least knows WHO he is in ANH when he says, "I wonder if she means old Ben Kenobi." They could be well acquainted, or Luke could just know him a little bit.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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3:51p, 6/23/22
AG
I'm upset "you got something to say?" guy didn't get his comeuppance other than Reva knocking his food out of his hand.

Was hoping she's chop off both hands or something.
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Lathspell
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3:54p, 6/23/22
AG
Wow... now the Star Wars bros are just saying the show was bad because the writers lacked creativity? Like it's an excuse?

This thread, man...
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to Rex Racer • 3:57p, 6/23/22
AG
It always sounded to me like Ben was just an old man he occasionally saw around town and maybe interacted with here and there. We've now at least seen the initial introduction, which is cool.

It doesn't sound like Owen ever speaks about him much to Luke other than maybe as an old acquaintance of his.
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bobinator
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In reply to Lathspell • 3:57p, 6/23/22
AG
I don't understand this post
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bobinator
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 4:01p, 6/23/22
AG
I actually think this show made a mistake by not flirting with the canon a little more.

After getting his ass kicked by Vader, and so far failing to commune with Qui Gon, it would have made a lot of sense for me to have an episode where Obi Wan seeks out Yoda. As far as I know there's no canonical reason why they can't meet up again during this period.

And that could have been some powerful stuff. Obi Wan still struggling with how he failed Anakin, Yoda struggling with how the Jedi as a whole failed the republic, etc.
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