*** GoT: House of the Dragon ***

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BenFiasco14
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In reply to The Debt • 4:46p, 8/10/22
AG
The Debt said:
BenFiasco14 said:
C@LAg said:
YNWA_AG said:
and yet book 6 is still nowhere close to being done/.

the dude just outright Johnny Manzieled himself.


I firmly believe he has no intentions of finishing the last two books

Help me out. Is Dany still in the Merenese Knot at the end of book 5?


Uhhh… I think so. She's definitely still overseas. Young Griff and the fake Targaryen kid land at Westeros. Barristan is also still alive and a POV character at this point.
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bluefire579
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4:53p, 8/10/22
AG
Dany's last chapter in ADWD is her and the dragon in the Dothraki sea, with the Dothraki circling her.
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The Dog Lord
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In reply to bluefire579 • 5:24p, 8/10/22
AG
bluefire579 said:
Dany's last chapter in ADWD is her and the dragon in the Dothraki sea, with the Dothraki circling her.

Additional potential spoilers (is it after so many years?), but she is also bleeding and can't remember the last time she had which many think means she could actually get pregnant again despite what Mirri Maz Duur said after Khal Drogo died.
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FatZilla
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4:22p, 8/11/22
AG
Link to a copy of the full episode plot spoilers that got DMCA'd by HBO on reddit.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/got-house-of-the-dragon-leaks-thread-huge-spoilers-possible-book-spoilers.615675/
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PascalsWager
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6:15p, 8/14/22
AG
I prediction is that this show (house of the dragon) is going to be much better than the Game of Thrones show.

And my hot take reason is because this story (at least for the general public) is WAY better than the original story. More inter and and intra family dynamics that enhance complex politics (like season 1 of the original). Less fantasy global warming allegories about mind numbingly boring villains (white walkers) that we had to bashed over the head with reminders (from the show runners, GRRM himself, and other fans) of how important they were.
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C@LAg
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In reply to PascalsWager • 6:20p, 8/14/22
PascalsWager said:
I prediction is that this show (house of the dragon) is going to be much better than the Game of Thrones show.

And my hot take reason is because this story (at least for the general public) is WAY better than the original story. More inter and and intra family dynamics that enhance complex politics (like season 1 of the original). Less fantasy global warming allegories about mind numbingly boring villains (white walkers) that we had to bashed over the head with reminders (from the show runners, GRRM himself, and other fans) of how important they were.
I think the plotting will be better.

It will all come down to the acting and the dialogue, which they are having to make up.

and they better not freakin skimp on dragon FX. There are like 8-12 or so alive at this time.
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The Porkchop Express
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In reply to The Dog Lord • 6:52p, 8/14/22
AG
The Dog Lord said:
bluefire579 said:
Dany's last chapter in ADWD is her and the dragon in the Dothraki sea, with the Dothraki circling her.

Additional potential spoilers (is it after so many years?), but she is also bleeding and can't remember the last time she had which many think means she could actually get pregnant again despite what Mirri Maz Duur said after Khal Drogo died.
Only one person on this board would call plot points from a book released in 2011 "spoilers"
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jenn96
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In reply to bluefire579 • 12:06p, 8/17/22
AG
bluefire579 said:
BenFiasco14 said:
C@LAg said:
BenFiasco14 said:




I firmly believe he has no intentions of finishing the last two books
i think he thinks he is going to.

I think he is utterly incapable of doing so at this point.


I've always heard the rumor it's written into his will that when he dies, if the books aren't finished, the rights go to the grave with him. So we couldn't even see an eventual Robert Jordan situation.

No idea if the source of that rumor but I've heard it ever since Dance with Dragons came out
It's not a rumor, he has outright stated as much
He has clearly stated it multiple and his wife has said that she agrees completely with his wishes. No kids to sell out. And the more years go by, the less anyone will care anyway. The HBO series killed a lot of enthusiasm for the books finale, especially since the ending on the show is Martin's ending, just done in a terrible, non-nuanced and hyper-rushed way.

So Martin knows that fans hate the main pieces of the ending (Jon back at/over the wall with no recognition, Dany mad and dead, Bran the king, Jamie going back to Cersei and both dying in the end). Now he doesn't really like his fan or care about their expectations, but he's a good storyteller and can probably recognize after seeing it that "damn, that is a dud of an ending." He's just done. He probably does want to finish - American Tolkien and all that - but he doesn't have the discipline and even if he did, he's totally lost the plot to wrap it all up.

Maybe Dance of Dragons will be good. It looks good! The Targaryens in general bore me to tears but if it's well done I'll be happy to go back to Westeros.
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The Porkchop Express
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12:34p, 8/17/22
AG
What I really hope they can get across is that in the early days of the Targaryen rule of Westeros, they were almost immortal and mythical. They came to Dragonstone in the first place because of a vision that one of their kids had about Valaryia falling in the Doom, so there was always a feeling of destiny to them being there at all.

Since it was Sister Wife central for a long time, they also kept a fairly small number and the dragons kept them safe from any sort of harm. Only when they grew larger in number and started marrying outside of their own family - Velaryons and Baratheons - did the internal conflict really begin and a few of them got killed in fairly ordinary ways, leading the rest of the country to realize they were just as flesh and blood as anyone.

So, that makes for sort of an awkward theme - they were revered and in power until they started mixing with other people, then the Civil War eventually came about. I have only read Fire and Blood once and it was a few years ago, but my lasting takeaway was that there were not many characters, if any, to root for, which doesn't always make great TV.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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1:02p, 8/17/22
AG
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bluefire579
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In reply to jenn96 • 2:00p, 8/17/22
AG
jenn96 said:
bluefire579 said:
BenFiasco14 said:
C@LAg said:
BenFiasco14 said:




I firmly believe he has no intentions of finishing the last two books
i think he thinks he is going to.

I think he is utterly incapable of doing so at this point.


I've always heard the rumor it's written into his will that when he dies, if the books aren't finished, the rights go to the grave with him. So we couldn't even see an eventual Robert Jordan situation.

No idea if the source of that rumor but I've heard it ever since Dance with Dragons came out
It's not a rumor, he has outright stated as much
He has clearly stated it multiple and his wife has said that she agrees completely with his wishes. No kids to sell out. And the more years go by, the less anyone will care anyway. The HBO series killed a lot of enthusiasm for the books finale, especially since the ending on the show is Martin's ending, just done in a terrible, non-nuanced and hyper-rushed way.

So Martin knows that fans hate the main pieces of the ending (Jon back at/over the wall with no recognition, Dany mad and dead, Bran the king, Jamie going back to Cersei and both dying in the end). Now he doesn't really like his fan or care about their expectations, but he's a good storyteller and can probably recognize after seeing it that "damn, that is a dud of an ending." He's just done. He probably does want to finish - American Tolkien and all that - but he doesn't have the discipline and even if he did, he's totally lost the plot to wrap it all up.

Maybe Dance of Dragons will be good. It looks good! The Targaryens in general bore me to tears but if it's well done I'll be happy to go back to Westeros.
I think if he ever does release WoW, people will be reminded of what made the books so good in the first place. As you mention, it's very easy to see pieces of what he's spent the series setting up coming together, but so much was done in a clumsy way with huge missing pieces.

I still contend that the biggest mistake the showrunners made was leaving out Aegon. It doesn't make sense for Dany to burn down King's Landing when Cersei's troops decide to stand down. It does make sense for her to arrive to find the land celebrating another Targaryen (one who might not even be a real one) after she put off her own ambitions to save the realm, and decide to show everyone the kind of power dragons have, especially with the way the books hint at her madness throughout. That felt like the biggest story beat that was missing to me. All the others were annoying (Tyrion being just drunk instead of having his usual wit, Varys turning on Dany without much subtlety or reason, Bran doing...well, nothing, no Lady Stoneheart, etc.), but given how things went, I don't think any of the others really compare.

I do think this show has potential. Hopefully the showrunners aren't looking for a quick out like D&D were, and put in the effort that GoT received for the first 3/4 of its run. At least we know there's a defined ending here, but there's also a lot of gaps to fill in beyond the big beats.
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javajaws
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2:56p, 8/19/22
AG
One review up fwiw: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-reviews/house-of-the-dragon-review-hbo-game-of-thrones-prequel-1235201398/amp/
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The Debt
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In reply to BenFiasco14 • 3:20p, 8/19/22
BenFiasco14 said:
The Debt said:
BenFiasco14 said:
C@LAg said:
YNWA_AG said:
and yet book 6 is still nowhere close to being done/.

the dude just outright Johnny Manzieled himself.


I firmly believe he has no intentions of finishing the last two books

Help me out. Is Dany still in the Merenese Knot at the end of book 5?


Uhhh… I think so. She's definitely still overseas. Young Griff and the fake Targaryen kid land at Westeros. Barristan is also still alive and a POV character at this point.
Thats right. They landed in or intended to take Storm's End. GRRM insisting that Dany "learn to rule" was definitely a time suck. Ruling, by its nature, is a multiyear prospect; I fear GRRM wanted to make Dany vulnerable instead of just immolating every barrier in her path so the political intrigue of a trial-run at ruling slaver's bay was just a bad distraction that puts a lot of plot on a character who still has two wars to fight (one against the dead, and the other against the undead.)

I have recently rewatched s8 just to see if its as bad as I remember it. It was. All the set up for Jon v the nights king just evaporates. Lady Mormont and the ice giant was cringe. Bran has a better story than Jon? And that gives him claim to the iron throne? Jaime still makes no sense for his character. Bam Margera-Greyjoy somehow attacks the dragons effectively, then is utterly stymied by Drogon in the finale, without Drogon adjusting anything different.

Basically every episode they would throw out all the previous information about the characters and plot devices to achieve whatever end the writers want to happen.

The beauty of GOT was not that it "subverted expectations" every moment, but that it did plausibly realistic, albeit evil, things to its characters. Like killing an trusting, altruistic protagonist in the first season.
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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to The Debt • 4:00p, 8/19/22
AG
At least the books give you interesting characters on that side of the world. The show neutered both the Essos and Dorne storylines so hard.
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Definitely Not A Cop
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4:02p, 8/19/22
AG
What's everyone's excitement level for the premiere? I'm at a 5 out of 10. Not going to be really disappointed if it's terrible, but will tune in.
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C@LAg
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4:04p, 8/19/22
4/10.

i already know all of the story, and I do not like a lot of the look of this series. everything about it looks cheaper and more fake than even the first season of GoT.

and some of the line delivery is cringey.

but I will give it 3 episodes to hook me, otherwise I find something better to watch on Sunday evenings.
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The Debt
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In reply to Definitely Not A Cop • 4:07p, 8/19/22
Definitely Not A Cop said:
At least the books give you interesting characters on that side of the world. The show neutered both the Essos and Dorne storylines so hard.
Sandsnakes you say? Lets have them captured and executed in under 3mins of screentime.

It is interesting how the show sold us on seven kingdoms but neutered it so hard it really only had 4.
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bluefire579
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4:15p, 8/19/22
AG
5 is about where I am as well. I definitely want to see more in the universe, but out of the shows that were rumored to be pitched, this was the one I was least excited about.

Unless it's just completely god-awful, I'll probably watch through the entire season.
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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to The Debt • 4:16p, 8/19/22
AG
The Debt said:
Definitely Not A Cop said:
At least the books give you interesting characters on that side of the world. The show neutered both the Essos and Dorne storylines so hard.
Sandsnakes you say? Lets have them captured and executed in under 3mins of screentime.

It is interesting how the show sold us on seven kingdoms but neutered it so hard it really only had 4.


Hotah being nothing more than a redshirt was such a disservice to a badass character. But really, after Oberyn's death the entire Dorne storyline in the show was nothing really more than an extended plot device.

And on the Essos side, you had just as much complicated politics between the different kingdoms, mercenary groups etc. Strong Belwas was awesome, and Dario is way more than just a boy toy.

And for much love as people have for the show for the early seasons surprising people by killing off their favorite characters, I can't believe they missed the opportunity to include FAegon. I was just as surprised at what happened to him as anything previously. Such a missed opportunity there, especially with how much season 5 dragged.
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tk for tu juan
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4:48p, 8/19/22
Was there enough material in the books on Essos and Dorne that they could have developed a parallel TV series that covered everything outside of the GOT main series storyline (1 hour GOT episode followed by 1 hour Essos/Dorne episode)? Follow the Golden Company for some episodes, follow the different political issues in other episodes, and some Iron Bank stuff

Non-book viewers were starting to get impatient with how long it took Dany to leave Essos, so adding more Essos material to the main series would make it worse. With the parallel series they could have expanded the universe for anyone interested in it without impacting the main series
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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to tk for tu juan • 4:57p, 8/19/22
AG
tk for tu juan said:
Was there enough material in the books on Essos and Dorne that they could have developed a parallel TV series that covered everything outside of the GOT main series storyline (1 hour GOT episode followed by 1 hour Essos/Dorne episode)? Follow the Golden Company for some episodes, follow the different political issues in other episodes, and some Iron Bank stuff

Non-book viewers were starting to get impatient with how long it took Dany to leave Essos, so adding more Essos material to the main series would make it worse. With the parallel series they could have expanded the universe for anyone interested in it without impacting the main series


I think it would be hard. Dany's storyline was still pretty boring imo. Although she hooks up with Missandei a lot, so that's fun. They do cover more of the mercenaries, and there are a lot of good characters like Barristan around. Dorne is obviously much more expanded, as are the different Greyjoys. Maybe if you included all of those and the other characters they wrote out, but you would have to retcon the Greyjoys because of how terrible they rewrote Euron.


One thing I did like about Wheel of Time is how they tackled a similar issue, explaining lore and history of the world. Hour episode, with a 5 minute short animation covering background lore that is showing up in each episode.
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C@LAg
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2:14a, 8/21/22
WARNING: EPISODE 1 GOT LEAKED EARLY. History repeats itself. (yes I watched it)

My thoughts, no real spoilers below:







That was utterly.... boring.

It starts out OK, some nice future callbacks to KL, a theme here and there, and then it just finds a walking pattern and... keeps walking, occasionally drunk stumbling.

  • I think the first shots above and around KL just served to remind how much everything went to **** when we last saw it,
  • Not a single character to root for.
  • The actress playing Rhaenyra has such a funny looking face that it is distracting.
  • Matt Smith is going a bit over the top
  • The bad wigs. And there are so many of them now.
  • At least there are some differences in the looks of the dragons, but even here the FX look great some times, but others are so poorly composited.
  • Speaking of FX.. lots of smoke/haze, especially in the first half.
  • Retcon of "song of ice and fire" seems gratuitous

My anticipation level was a 4/10 and I think that is about right.

Going to give it 2 more episodes to see if it gets any better.
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Faustus
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2:33a, 8/21/22
Chuckle at HBO having to diversify Martin's Aryan master race. It was an innocent world builder at the time, but hilariously way too much on the nose for today.

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C@LAg
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3:01a, 8/21/22
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In reply to C@LAg • 3:13a, 8/21/22
C@LAg
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In reply to [removed post] • 3:21a, 8/21/22
Bregxit said:

Note that if what you say is indeed the case, then history is repeating itself. Episode 1 of GoT was boring.
someone up thread posted a link to the season 1 summary, detailing what is in each episode.

so it looks like the show will be true to form - first half of the season is chatty/intrigue, with things really only taking off starting in episode 7 (of 10).

What will be interesting to see is how the audience reacts to/accepts the time jumps since the are several as the season covers something like 16 years.
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will25u
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1:53p, 8/21/22
Just watched episode one.

A lot of introductions and story building. Which is to be expected. They are not making this series just for the long time GOT fans, but for the uninitiated also.

The first episodes are setting the foundation for the series. So look for stories/history for House Targaryen and character histories.

I have always been deeply interested in the story of GoT, so even though this episode is lacking of action, it is good at story building going into this story.

I enjoyed this episode and enjoyed the callbacks in the music to the original GoT.

Don't expect much of anything from House Stark in this series.
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The Dog Lord
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2:02p, 8/21/22
AG
I'm excited for the premiere. This isn't my first choice in terms of the next story I wanted in this world, but I'm still happy for anything. I'm extremely skeptical/nervous about the Jon Snow series but still excited at the possibility at some redemption for the last horrible season.
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The Porkchop Express
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3:51p, 8/21/22
AG
Jon Snow series should be him sitting around realizing he never did anything to contribute to any plot line and was apparently brought back to life to yell at an undead dragon.
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Definitely Not A Cop
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4:06p, 8/21/22
AG
Just got myself in the mood for tonight by watching the last two episodes of Season 6. Best back-to-back episodes in the series, imo.
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tk for tu juan
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 4:12p, 8/21/22
Without Jon Snow, Kings Landing would have been overrun by white walkers instead of being burned to death by Dany
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The Porkchop Express
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4:22p, 8/21/22
AG
The Burlington Bar confirms it will return with watcher reactions for House of the Dragon. That at least does make me happy.
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GreasenUSA
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6:12p, 8/21/22
AG
Just finished the first episode. It was basically exactly what I was expecting, and held my interest. Will continue to watch.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to GreasenUSA • 6:20p, 8/21/22
AG
GreasenUSA said:
Just finished the first episode. It was basically exactly what I was expecting, and held my interest. Will continue to watch.


How did you watch it?
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 6:29p, 8/21/22
AG
The Porkchop Express said:
The Burlington Bar confirms it will return with watcher reactions for House of the Dragon. That at least does make me happy.


I used to watch GoT reactions regularly back when it was airing, and the finale left such a bad taste in my mouth that I never watched any of them for the last few episodes of the series. I still had them on a playlist though so I've been watching them all day today to get me back in the GoT mood.

Have to say I still really enjoy The Long Night and it seems most people who posted reactions were really into it as well.

For me it all went off the rails when Rhaegal was the taken out with three direct hits from the Iron Fleet. Sure it was a great WTF moment, but not the good kind like the Red Wedding. Completely unearned and ridiculous. And don't get me started on Dany's turn in The Bells.
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