Aggies2009 said:

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TxA&Mhunter said:

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Smh do You even hear ignorant that sounds?

He's been to Omaha more times than our entire program..... He has more wins in Omaha then we do as a University ever....

He is younger than an Rob Childress... He recoups the state of Texas and is a well-known elite coach... Who has been in contention for some of the top jobs in the country....

He's convince more kids to turn down draft money than you could shake a stick at...

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Again, he'll have a tougher schedule and not as many advantages when it comes to scholarship limitations.

Not saying he can't do it here, but it's not an apples to apples comparison. A successful tcu coach isn't necessarily going to be successful at A&M.

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This is a misperception. There is not a "private" school advantage, per se. There are 60 schools in this country with endowments large enough that their financial pitch is worded something like

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We meet 100% of every student's demonstrated financial need, without loans.

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That is copied directly from Vanderbilt's website. Our rough math two years ago when we visited with our daughter was that it would cost $78K for a year and we would be responsible for about $32K of it. They have the rest. Notre Dame and Stanford have similar deals. Duke does not, they say that limited loans may be used. USC does not either.

How do they do this? The size of their endowments are so large per capita that the earnings are capable of running the school without tuition from any given student, or even with only 40% or less from over 90% of students. Some rough numbers with in the case on Endowments 2019 numbers:

School - Endowment - Enrollment - Per Capita
Notre Dame - $11.96B - 12,681 - $943,143
Vanderbilt - $6.92B - 13,537 - $511,192
Stanford - $28.95B - 15,611 - $1,854,462
TCU - $1.68B - 11,379 - $147,640
Texas A&M - $13.59B - 69,465 - $195,638

I put A&M in just to show our place in the world but the real point here is that the first three are elite private schools who happen to also play sports at a high level. At all three of those schools the university offers all students grants from endowment earnings above the families demonstrated ability to pay. Because they offer those programs for all students it gives them an advantage with sports like baseball because they will offer than to all baseball players as well.

Quite obviously TCU cannot do that and looking at their website there's no attempt to say they can. They are not competing with the other three for students. With that in mind they're basically recruiting with 11.7 as we are. One thing to note is that about 1/3 of their team is not from Texas. That's probably a result of needing to cast a wider net to find enough kids that an afford TCU and play baseball at this level.

Jmo you are looking at the big picture instead of the much smaller picture. 3 admissions & scholarships a year for smart kids that can also play ball. That gives the team an extra 12 players , Most of the 12 will end up being solid role players but if you find a solid reliever, a Sunday starter , and a outfielder designated runner with those extra players that is a competitive advantage.

If the admissions and financial aid people at the school are on the same page and want to help field a better baseball team 3 extra players a year means the team has a deeper roster.

Sq 17 said:

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Jmo you are looking at the big picture instead of the much smaller picture. 3 admissions & scholarships a year for smart kids that can also play ball. That gives the team an extra 12 players , Most of the 12 will end up being solid role players but if you find a solid reliever, a Sunday starter , and a outfielder designated runner with those extra players that is a competitive advantage.

If the admissions and financial aid people at the school are on the same page and want to help field a better baseball team 3 extra players a year means the team has a deeper roster.

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I don't understand where you're getting 3 admissions and scholarships from. What's that?

LOYAL AG said:

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Sq 17 said:

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Jmo you are looking at the big picture instead of the much smaller picture. 3 admissions & scholarships a year for smart kids that can also play ball. That gives the team an extra 12 players , Most of the 12 will end up being solid role players but if you find a solid reliever, a Sunday starter , and a outfielder designated runner with those extra players that is a competitive advantage.

If the admissions and financial aid people at the school are on the same page and want to help field a better baseball team 3 extra players a year means the team has a deeper roster.

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I don't understand where you're getting 3 admissions and scholarships from. What's that?

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If you have a couple kids on the team who are smart enough to get academic aid, he is assuming 3, then you can save those scholarships for elsewhere.

powerbelly said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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Sq 17 said:

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Jmo you are looking at the big picture instead of the much smaller picture. 3 admissions & scholarships a year for smart kids that can also play ball. That gives the team an extra 12 players , Most of the 12 will end up being solid role players but if you find a solid reliever, a Sunday starter , and a outfielder designated runner with those extra players that is a competitive advantage.

If the admissions and financial aid people at the school are on the same page and want to help field a better baseball team 3 extra players a year means the team has a deeper roster.

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I don't understand where you're getting 3 admissions and scholarships from. What's that?

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If you have a couple kids on the team who are smart enough to get academic aid, he is assuming 3, then you can save those scholarships for elsewhere.

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So they're assuming TCU has three kids that are good enough to earn a baseball scholarship but accepted walk on status and academic support in lieu of that? I guess it's possible but there's nothing to stop A&M from doing that as well. To me that's a tough sell as the Ace in the Hole for a school like TCU where academics are nice but they aren't considered stronger than A&M. More importantly we don't "know" that happens whereas everything I've posted here and on Premium over the past several months with regard to scholarship advantages of some private schools is entirely factual and comes directly from the school or independent sources that aren't interested in baseball. I don't care to delve into the "but they can do this and it's not fair" side of this thing when I don't know if there's any actual proof that they do those things. If we know they're doing those things and I've missed it point me in the right direction but right now I don't think we do.

Remember as well that we have limits on the number of players on baseball scholarship and the total size of the roster for baseball. There's a maximum of 28 players receiving baseball aid and a maximum roster size of 35. You've seen me mention things like kids paying their 58% to play at TCU, that's where that comes from. 11.7/28 is 41.78% which make that the average baseball award. The minimum a player can get from baseball is 25% unless they are a walkon.

Where academic awards do come into play is in the timing of a players decision. There's an early signing day and at least some schools will offer academic awards as an enticement to get a kid to choose their school over another. This isn't sports specific, just a recruiting tactic for that school. But that would have to be offered in October as the signing day is first Wednesday in November and for TCU's part they say academic offers are made shortly after an offer of admission which doesn't come until January so they aren't doing that either.

At this point I don't really see anything to tell me TCU has any real financial advantage over A&M, again unless I'm missing something above.

The point is that A&M is much more stingy with academic support than TCU. Apples to apples the same student will get more financial support at TCU than A&M

powerbelly said:

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The point is that A&M is much more stingy with academic support than TCU. Apples to apples the same student will get more financial support at TCU than A&M

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OK, that may be true. I know my daughter is a sophomore at tu and she's getting nothing so that seems to fit that narrative.

LOYAL AG said:

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powerbelly said:

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The point is that A&M is much more stingy with academic support than TCU. Apples to apples the same student will get more financial support at TCU than A&M

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OK, that may be true. I know my daughter is a sophomore at tu and she's getting nothing so that seems to fit that narrative.

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Anecdotally I got basically a full ride to SMU and zero dollars from A&M.

And to be clear, I am not sure that this is happening, but it is an opportunity that doesn't really exist at A&M. I don't think it exists on the scale that it does at a school like Vanderbilt either.

I don't think it would hold Schloss back if he were to be our next coach.

This is a pretty good list of candidates

Jim Schlossnagle (TCU)
Tim Tadlock (Texas Tech)
Tony Vitello (Tennessee)
Cliff Godwin (East Carolina)
Erik Bakich (Michigan)
Pat Casey (Oregon State)
Dan Heefner (Dallas Baptist)

LOYAL AG said:

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Sq 17 said:

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Jmo you are looking at the big picture instead of the much smaller picture. 3 admissions & scholarships a year for smart kids that can also play ball. That gives the team an extra 12 players , Most of the 12 will end up being solid role players but if you find a solid reliever, a Sunday starter , and a outfielder designated runner with those extra players that is a competitive advantage.

If the admissions and financial aid people at the school are on the same page and want to help field a better baseball team 3 extra players a year means the team has a deeper roster.

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I don't understand where you're getting 3 admissions and scholarships from. What's that?

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It is a hypothetical arbitrary number the point being if admissions can get a couple of ball players every year an academic scholarship then that is quality depth and probably a starter or two. The consensus is Vandy does it seems likely Rice used to do it ; TCU is possibly doing it

To be clear: A&M's merit scholarships date to the 80s and don't pay much more now than then in nominal dollars. A&M primarily offer needs-based financial aid so it isn't exactly clear that we achieve the same result. Plus our administration costs have gone through the roof since the 80s as havebotger schools. Ask your favorite research professor how much the school retains from grants for overhead.

paterfamilias79 said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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powerbelly said:

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The point is that A&M is much more stingy with academic support than TCU. Apples to apples the same student will get more financial support at TCU than A&M

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OK, that may be true. I know my daughter is a sophomore at tu and she's getting nothing so that seems to fit that narrative.

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Daughter @ tu
Username does not check out

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TRUTH!

Sq 17 said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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Sq 17 said:

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Jmo you are looking at the big picture instead of the much smaller picture. 3 admissions & scholarships a year for smart kids that can also play ball. That gives the team an extra 12 players , Most of the 12 will end up being solid role players but if you find a solid reliever, a Sunday starter , and a outfielder designated runner with those extra players that is a competitive advantage.

If the admissions and financial aid people at the school are on the same page and want to help field a better baseball team 3 extra players a year means the team has a deeper roster.

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I don't understand where you're getting 3 admissions and scholarships from. What's that?

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It is a hypothetical arbitrary number the point being if admissions can get a couple of ball players every year an academic scholarship then that is quality depth and probably a starter or two. The consensus is Vandy does it seems likely Rice used to do it ; TCU is possibly doing it

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Still think you have to separate Vandy from pretty much everyone else we compete with because they offer "free" to literally everyone. If you're dirt poor you're going to Vandy for free even if you're a peg leg midget. TCU can't do that, they don't have the resources for it. They can be more generous with individual students than A&M can be but if they get caught focusing on baseball players they'll get a slap on the wrist from the NCAA.

The one thing I do want to keep front of mind here is the max number of players on the team. Basically you're going to have 7 or so players not on baseball awards which was done specifically to limit schools like LSU where their TOPS program was giving them a HUGE advantage in roster size similar to what you're alluding to. Huge as in we'd hear about LSU signing 20+ kids in a class each year by offering 10% baseball and relying on TOPS to fill the gap. Those days are gone. If TCU wanted to maximize their baseball awards and go to like 75% baseball then you're cutting down your scholarship roster to 15 players at which point I don't know that a walk on program can bridge that gap. Not sure that's realistic given how good they are.

I do like Powerbelly's explanation of TCU's ability to do more for a given student academically vs A&M, I have no doubt that's correct. But with a total cost of 2.x times A&M I'm thinking that the extra award at best makes the two schools comparable financially which means it still comes down to where you want to play and who you want to play for.

Good discussion!

TxA&Mhunter said:

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You realize that he has to be good teams in Omaha to have wins there right? how many times did he beat us to go?
This nonsense about his schedule is rubbish... He gets some scholarship help but at the end of the day acting like he's a bad hire is just flat out ignorant and shows that some people don't know jack about baseball.

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He beat us to get there.

But remember... We're a program that has 1 win in Omaha all-time. And we've been told for the past few decades by some posters here that our baseball program is bad because of that.

Schloss wouldn't be a bad hire and is one of the few I'd take over Childress.

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I'm not saying Schloss would be a bad hire. But was he worth firing Childress over? Is he going to be that big of an upgrade?

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On paper, he'd be a huge upgrade.

Granted it is no sure thing he can emulate his tcu success here but on paper he is a very big upgrade.

Childress had peaked here and it is best for both parties to move on. I mean his last years have been a downward trajectory and after 15 years, it was time to make a change. Now it may not work out but then you just keep trying until you get it right.

two things in favor of Schloss...

he's shown that he can win in the postseason as an underdog. See his 2010 & 2016 trips to Omaha.

he's also shown that his great teams rarely get upset in the postseason. See his 2014, 2015, and 2017 trips to Omaha.

unfortunately both MJ and Childress had a lot of difficulty in those 2 areas

Seems the NCAA, wanting to be fair and above board and all, would close this loop-hole?

Aggies2009But was he worth firing Childress over? Is he going to be that big of an upgrade?[/quote said:

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Without a shadow of a doubt he is, He has the ability to convince kids college is better than the draft, How many players did he get that we wanted... There is no way that I could see someone in the baseball community who knows baseball saying that he's not that big of an upgrade...

I don't know.

How many kids did he get that we wanted/targeted?

BREAKING: @TTU_Baseball is expected to announce a significant contract extension and restructuring of Tim Tadlock’s contract with the #RedRaiders that would keep him in Lubbock for the duration of his career. #Wreckem

— Kendall Rogers (@KendallRogers) May 24, 2021

Spyderman said:

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Seems the NCAA, wanting to be fair and above board and all, would close this loop-hole?

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Practically, it's probably tough to do without screwing a lot of stuff up. Do you say to the private school students, if you get an academic scholarship you can't play college baseball? Seems extreme. I'd probably just rather roll with what we got and deal with it. I think I'd rather see the conferences address it first and see how it goes.

I assume it's Title IX that's f'ing this up. Otherwise, full athletic scholarships would solve the problem, wouldn't it?

swimmerbabe11 said:

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BREAKING: @TTU_Baseball is expected to announce a significant contract extension and restructuring of Tim Tadlock’s contract with the #RedRaiders that would keep him in Lubbock for the duration of his career. #Wreckem

— Kendall Rogers (@KendallRogers) May 24, 2021

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Ha, ha. The old "lifetime coach" approach, from the same school that screwed over Leach.

_mpaul said:

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swimmerbabe11 said:

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BREAKING: @TTU_Baseball is expected to announce a significant contract extension and restructuring of Tim Tadlock’s contract with the #RedRaiders that would keep him in Lubbock for the duration of his career. #Wreckem

— Kendall Rogers (@KendallRogers) May 24, 2021

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Ha, ha. The old "lifetime coach" approach, from the same school that screwed over Leach.

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Maybe it will work better for them than it did with beard.

LOYAL AG said:

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Remember as well that we have limits on the number of players on baseball scholarship and the total size of the roster for baseball. There's a maximum of 28 players receiving baseball aid and a maximum roster size of 35. You've seen me mention things like kids paying their 58% to play at TCU, that's where that comes from. 11.7/28 is 41.78% which make that the average baseball award. The minimum a player can get from baseball is 25% unless they are a walkon.

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Vandy lists a roster of 43, kids, tcu 42, & A&M 38. How does that jive with what you said here?

I don't believe the %'s are accurate either. I was fortunate enough to know players when I was at A&M as well as some kids who have come through recently. The 11.7 is not spread equally among the roster. I knew 1 kids who was just getting books paid for, another was getting room & board. The 11.7 limit explains, IMO, why the roster is in constant change year to year. I haven't looked at other schools, but you can review our rosters and see the change.

It would be good to see if there are any parents of team members who could chime in, if they desired.

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I'm not saying Schloss would be a bad hire. But was he worth firing Childress over? Is he going to be that big of an upgrade?

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FWIW, I think so. Just look on his wikipedia page and the success he's had. Since 2013 he had one bad year (tied for 6th in B12), then went to Omaha 4 straight years, then had 1 bad year, followed by Covid year and now this year (tied with Sips with a 17-7 B12 record and 36-16 overall). Can't explain the occasional bad years. Don't know if its injuries, the draft robbing his team or what.

Other than his 2 year stint as an undergrad at Tceh i don't understand why a coach with his talent would want to stay in that remote desert of a place instead of at one of the perennial powerhouses (not to mention the Texas Aggies).

85AustinAg said:

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Quote:

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I'm not saying Schloss would be a bad hire. But was he worth firing Childress over? Is he going to be that big of an upgrade?

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FWIW, I think so. Just look on his wikipedia page and the success he's had. Since 2013 he had one bad year (tied for 6th in B12), then went to Omaha 4 straight years, then had 1 bad year, followed by Covid year and now this year (tied with Sips with a 17-7 B12 record and 36-16 overall). Can't explain the occasional bad years. Don't know if its injuries, the draft robbing his team or what.

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Thanks- those are all very good/fair points.

In that scenario, down years would definitely be worth the great years/chunks.

Sq 17 said:

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Maroon Elephant said:

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$12.5 million isn't much and they need to spend twice that to improve the dumpster they are playing in. That said, it may be enough to keep him there.

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Given how social media rollouts are engineered , this is probably the first ( and smallest ) announcement that tceh has this week.

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If the Kendall Rogers tweet is correct then the $12.5 million announcement was just the appetizer and the entree is the new multi year deal

swimmerbabe11 said:

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ensign_beedrill said:

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Lupton is not a better stadium than Olsen.

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The quality of concessions has a difference that makes them basically equal.

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Olsen is the better physical park and atmosphere by far, but the food choices at TCU put Olsen to shame. Same for Amon Carter and Kyle Field.

SchizoAg said:

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TxA&Mhunter said:

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You realize that he has to be good teams in Omaha to have wins there right? how many times did he beat us to go?
This nonsense about his schedule is rubbish... He gets some scholarship help but at the end of the day acting like he's a bad hire is just flat out ignorant and shows that some people don't know jack about baseball.

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TCU beat us by razor-thin margins those two years, one of which they were the beneficiary of Eric Hyman being our AD while favoring TCU on the selection committee . Flip those outcomes, and Childress then has more CWS appearances than him. I liked our chances in Omaha both of those years.

There is way too much luck (especially due to the notoriously fickle and arbitrary selection committee) in college baseball to say Schlossnagle is clearly better than Childress.

(However, as I've said, I don't think we can get anyone clearly better than Childress. I expect our program to get worse.)

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May I ask why?

I like Bakich at Michigan.

Sq 17 said:

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Sq 17 said:

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Maroon Elephant said:

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$12.5 million isn't much and they need to spend twice that to improve the dumpster they are playing in. That said, it may be enough to keep him there.

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Given how social media rollouts are engineered , this is probably the first ( and smallest ) announcement that tceh has this week.

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If the Kendall Rogers tweet is correct then the $12.5 million announcement was just the appetizer and the entree is the new multi year deal

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what is the dessert?