Agthatbuilds said:

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TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump?

---

Republicans haven't exactly shown great leadership over the past several years. With America dead since 11/3/2020 we don't have the luxury of being picky. Our goal is to resurrect America. I think DeSantis would do a better job, but Trump will at least try and will more than stop the bleeding.

---

Why is no one willing to answer this simple question directly.

My answer is its more important to evict the democrats than for Trump to be re-elected

---

You asked if our goal is to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump. Now you're saying it's more important to not have a democrat in the white house. You're moving goal posts, but I agree with your 2nd take.

With the way things are going, if you want to evict the democrats, you'll probably have to re-elect Trump.

Electing Trump isn't the goal. Evicting democrats is.

Sq 17 said:

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I got the order correct
Got Haley % correct

But thought DeSantis would keep it within single digits

---

Was going to require the polling in Iowa to be off by exponentially historic margins…

Just was never a realistic expectation…

TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump?

---

Republicans haven't exactly shown great leadership over the past several years. With America dead since 11/3/2020 we don't have the luxury of being picky. Our goal is to resurrect America. I think DeSantis would do a better job, but Trump will at least try and will more than stop the bleeding.

---

As it turns out that date was March 16, 2020. That was the day Trump decided to give in to Fauci and do "15 Days to Slow the Spread" and then effectively handed over his Presidency to him. I know I was a fool to trust Trump that he actually meant 15 Days myself and that he would have the strength to stick to it and I admit my error. I don't know that we will ever recover from that not because of the damage it did but because people still won't admit that Trump was wrong and weak to do it.

aggie93 said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump?

---

Republicans haven't exactly shown great leadership over the past several years. With America dead since 11/3/2020 we don't have the luxury of being picky. Our goal is to resurrect America. I think DeSantis would do a better job, but Trump will at least try and will more than stop the bleeding.

---

As it turns out that date was March 16, 2020. That was the day Trump decided to give in to Fauci and do "15 Days to Slow the Spread" and then effectively handed over his Presidency to him. I know I was a fool to trust Trump that he actually meant 15 Days myself and that he would have the strength to stick to it and I admit my error. I don't know that we will ever recover from that not because of the damage it did but because people still won't admit that Trump was wrong and weak to do it.

---

MAGA can never admit Trump was wrong. It means admitting that THEY were wrong, too.

Ag with kids said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump?

---

Republicans haven't exactly shown great leadership over the past several years. With America dead since 11/3/2020 we don't have the luxury of being picky. Our goal is to resurrect America. I think DeSantis would do a better job, but Trump will at least try and will more than stop the bleeding.

---

As it turns out that date was March 16, 2020. That was the day Trump decided to give in to Fauci and do "15 Days to Slow the Spread" and then effectively handed over his Presidency to him. I know I was a fool to trust Trump that he actually meant 15 Days myself and that he would have the strength to stick to it and I admit my error. I don't know that we will ever recover from that not because of the damage it did but because people still won't admit that Trump was wrong and weak to do it.

---

MAGA can never admit Trump was wrong. It means admitting that THEY were wrong, too.

---

Time for DeSantis fanatics to admit he definitely wouldn't win the general either.

Ag with kids said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump?

---

Republicans haven't exactly shown great leadership over the past several years. With America dead since 11/3/2020 we don't have the luxury of being picky. Our goal is to resurrect America. I think DeSantis would do a better job, but Trump will at least try and will more than stop the bleeding.

---

As it turns out that date was March 16, 2020. That was the day Trump decided to give in to Fauci and do "15 Days to Slow the Spread" and then effectively handed over his Presidency to him. I know I was a fool to trust Trump that he actually meant 15 Days myself and that he would have the strength to stick to it and I admit my error. I don't know that we will ever recover from that not because of the damage it did but because people still won't admit that Trump was wrong and weak to do it.

---

MAGA can never admit Trump was wrong. It means admitting that THEY were wrong, too.

---

Trump was wrong. A lot of Trump voters have said so and wish Trump would have fired Fauci from the onset.

Any other false broad brush painting you would like to do today that will keep the right divided?

Very well thought out (and long) recap from Steve Deace who backed DeSantis but also knows Iowa extremely well. Some good insights for sure with pros and cons for Trump and DeSantis and Haley.

Some takeaways from the #IACaucus results in this thread, the first official votes of the 2024 election.

Before the vote, I said I was confident in 4 things:

1) Turnout would be down. ✔️
2) DeSantis would over-perform his polling. ✔️
3) Haley wouldn't finish second. ✔️
4)…

— Steve Deace (@SteveDeaceShow) January 16, 2024

aggie93 said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump?

---

Republicans haven't exactly shown great leadership over the past several years. With America dead since 11/3/2020 we don't have the luxury of being picky. Our goal is to resurrect America. I think DeSantis would do a better job, but Trump will at least try and will more than stop the bleeding.

---

As it turns out that date was March 16, 2020. That was the day Trump decided to give in to Fauci and do "15 Days to Slow the Spread" and then effectively handed over his Presidency to him. I know I was a fool to trust Trump that he actually meant 15 Days myself and that he would have the strength to stick to it and I admit my error. I don't know that we will ever recover from that not because of the damage it did but because people still won't admit that Trump was wrong and weak to do it.

---

According to Iowa exit polling, COVID 2020 was a non-factor…

FireAg said:

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aggie93 said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump?

---

Republicans haven't exactly shown great leadership over the past several years. With America dead since 11/3/2020 we don't have the luxury of being picky. Our goal is to resurrect America. I think DeSantis would do a better job, but Trump will at least try and will more than stop the bleeding.

---

As it turns out that date was March 16, 2020. That was the day Trump decided to give in to Fauci and do "15 Days to Slow the Spread" and then effectively handed over his Presidency to him. I know I was a fool to trust Trump that he actually meant 15 Days myself and that he would have the strength to stick to it and I admit my error. I don't know that we will ever recover from that not because of the damage it did but because people still won't admit that Trump was wrong and weak to do it

---

According to Iowa exit polling, COVID 2020 was a non-factor…

---

Lol, that's not remotely what I was talking about.

The question was when did America "die" not why Republicans in Iowa voted one way or another. The election in November of '20 was certainly impacted tremendously by Trump's decision to push for a shutdown and then even moreso by not re-opening as he promised. That led to the disastrous CARES Act passed right as the 15 Days was about to expire and extended it another 30. Then we spiraled and spiraled. The destruction of employment was in that bill as was the funding to change election procedures. It all goes back to that decision. Had Trump fought it maybe he loses in November but at least we would have had a choice. Instead it made it so that Trump had to argue both in favor of and against lockdowns and all the rest. Even today the best answer is "He did the best he could" or blaming others for what was ultimately his decision.

The fact that people today may or may not vote based on Covid is irrelevant. That decision by Trump changed the country and I don't know how we ever get back to where we were.

texagbeliever said:

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Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

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Waffledynamics said:

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Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump?

---

Republicans haven't exactly shown great leadership over the past several years. With America dead since 11/3/2020 we don't have the luxury of being picky. Our goal is to resurrect America. I think DeSantis would do a better job, but Trump will at least try and will more than stop the bleeding.

---

Why is no one willing to answer this simple question directly.

My answer is its more important to evict the democrats than for Trump to be re-elected

---

I think we all agree we want a dem out of office.

Desantis sycophants are the ones claiming they will take their ball home if they don't get their guy in. I am voting Desantis in the primary but will be all in on trump if he gets the nomination.

Mainly because I'm not an egotistical baby announcing multiple times a day that I will "punish" my party by not voting since "everyone in my party is stupid except me"

You all sound ridiculous

---

Who do you think started the ugliness? DeSantis and his supporters, or Trump and his supporters?

---

I've frequented this board for about 15 years now.

I've never seen anyone as militant as Desantis supporters on here.

As far as I can tell it started with Desantis or really trump haters after the 2020 election

---

I don't blame DeSantis supporters too much, this is a critical time for America and many people, college educated, freedom loving, Christians are scared. They could lose their job tomorrow. They could have their kids brainwashed into woke ideology. They could see their wealth stolen. So a candidate like DeSantis who is like them is the hero they want. Desperate for hope they go all in on it. This limits their ability to be rational. With time I think many will hopefully come around to choosing courage over throwing in the towel. I'd much rather fight for a good outcome over being correct in predicting a bad one. But that is just me.

---

We're irrational? Posts like this are so ridiculous. We give countless examples of Trump not running on conservative principles, or really any consistent principles at all. We point to DeSantis's demonstrated success in Florida in contrast to Trump's very little success. I could go on, but the point is that all we get back is "lol TDS".

Trump supporters are not rational. They are emotional, irrational, unstrategic, gullible, and based on posts like this, arrogant!

Tea Party said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump?

---

Republicans haven't exactly shown great leadership over the past several years. With America dead since 11/3/2020 we don't have the luxury of being picky. Our goal is to resurrect America. I think DeSantis would do a better job, but Trump will at least try and will more than stop the bleeding.

---

As it turns out that date was March 16, 2020. That was the day Trump decided to give in to Fauci and do "15 Days to Slow the Spread" and then effectively handed over his Presidency to him. I know I was a fool to trust Trump that he actually meant 15 Days myself and that he would have the strength to stick to it and I admit my error. I don't know that we will ever recover from that not because of the damage it did but because people still won't admit that Trump was wrong and weak to do it.

---

MAGA can never admit Trump was wrong. It means admitting that THEY were wrong, too.

---

Trump was wrong. A lot of Trump voters have said so and wish Trump would have fired Fauci from the onset.

Any other false broad brush painting you would like to do today that will keep the right divided?

---

How about demanding accountability?

Waffledynamics said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Waffledynamics said:

---

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump?

---

Republicans haven't exactly shown great leadership over the past several years. With America dead since 11/3/2020 we don't have the luxury of being picky. Our goal is to resurrect America. I think DeSantis would do a better job, but Trump will at least try and will more than stop the bleeding.

---

Why is no one willing to answer this simple question directly.

My answer is its more important to evict the democrats than for Trump to be re-elected

---

I think we all agree we want a dem out of office.

Desantis sycophants are the ones claiming they will take their ball home if they don't get their guy in. I am voting Desantis in the primary but will be all in on trump if he gets the nomination.

Mainly because I'm not an egotistical baby announcing multiple times a day that I will "punish" my party by not voting since "everyone in my party is stupid except me"

You all sound ridiculous

---

Who do you think started the ugliness? DeSantis and his supporters, or Trump and his supporters?

---

I've frequented this board for about 15 years now.

I've never seen anyone as militant as Desantis supporters on here.

As far as I can tell it started with Desantis or really trump haters after the 2020 election

---

I don't blame DeSantis supporters too much, this is a critical time for America and many people, college educated, freedom loving, Christians are scared. They could lose their job tomorrow. They could have their kids brainwashed into woke ideology. They could see their wealth stolen. So a candidate like DeSantis who is like them is the hero they want. Desperate for hope they go all in on it. This limits their ability to be rational. With time I think many will hopefully come around to choosing courage over throwing in the towel. I'd much rather fight for a good outcome over being correct in predicting a bad one. But that is just me.

---

We're irrational? Posts like this are so ridiculous. We give countless examples of Trump not running on conservative principles, or really any consistent principles at all. We point to DeSantis's demonstrated success in Florida in contrast to Trump's very little success. I could go on, but the point is that all we get back is "lol TDS".

Trump supporters are not rational. They are emotional, irrational, unstrategic, gullible, and based on posts like this, arrogant!

---

DeSantis never had a chance of winning. Just because people on this board consumed endless media feeding them that that was possible doesn't make it so.

It is funny how "Trump" supporters called Trump winning months ago. Yet the muh polls are lies people still thought DeSantis was going to win yesterday morning. One side proving their irrationality. Their gullibility. it is there to be seen.

Haley wouldn't finish second.
I did get this right, too, but it was closer than I expected. While there weren't quite the numbers feared (non-Republicans fell from 21% in 2016 to a mere 16% in 2024), they were the bulk of Haley's base. Her hefty 34-8 advantage over DeSantis with…

— Steve Deace (@SteveDeaceShow) January 16, 2024

"However, just 15% of actual Republicans voted for her. I'm not sure what your path moving forward is given that number, unless you're running for other reasons."

Yep. Pretty obvious at this point that Haley is in it to take away votes from Ron and she will be VP.

shack009 said:

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stallion6 said:

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C@LAg said:

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Trump has been the Dems ***** for 8 years now. That is not going to stop any time soon.

1. No major legislation passed on his watch.

2. He spent $8TT that the dems gorged on, as did the Republicans. S much for him being "conservative".

3. He got used and abused by the Executive branch, who worked against him

4. The military hated him so much they actively worked against him

5. Republican leadership hated and still hates him and barely is willing to work with him. He is going to bring down the ticket in one or both houses.

6. DOJ has tied him up for pretty much the entire time.

7. He is bleeding millions in ongoing lawsuits that divide his time.

8. He has almost no useful or powerful allies. Anywhere.

The senile buffoon in the White House who cannot prepare cereal for himself is going to beat him in the general election. For a second time.

He is a dead candidate walking.

---

The military did not hate Trump. Just Liberal, Woke Milley.

---

The Milley that Trump appointed?

---

Not sure what that has to do with the comment about the entire military. Maybe read before posting. The comment stated the "military" worked agains Trump. That is absolutely an incorrect generalization.

Milley turned out to be a traitor. Bad pick by Trump that he should have listened when others advised against it. You can see who Milley is not that he is retired. The Milley that is in Davos at the WEF with all the other corrupt leaders.

However, this election isn't about winning the Iowa Caucuses. It's really about winning 294 days from today. And to that end, there are concerns.

Yes, I expected turnout to be down. Until recently, this has been a low energy cycle in Iowa. Then we had the worst winter weather I…

— Steve Deace (@SteveDeaceShow) January 16, 2024

This is what most of us have been saying for a while now. Trump suppresses R turnout and he propels D turnout (other than when running against Beautiful Hillary, who nobody but Trump likes).

stallion6 said:

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shack009 said:

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stallion6 said:

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C@LAg said:

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Trump has been the Dems ***** for 8 years now. That is not going to stop any time soon.

1. No major legislation passed on his watch.

2. He spent $8TT that the dems gorged on, as did the Republicans. S much for him being "conservative".

3. He got used and abused by the Executive branch, who worked against him

4. The military hated him so much they actively worked against him

5. Republican leadership hated and still hates him and barely is willing to work with him. He is going to bring down the ticket in one or both houses.

6. DOJ has tied him up for pretty much the entire time.

7. He is bleeding millions in ongoing lawsuits that divide his time.

8. He has almost no useful or powerful allies. Anywhere.

The senile buffoon in the White House who cannot prepare cereal for himself is going to beat him in the general election. For a second time.

He is a dead candidate walking.

---

The military did not hate Trump. Just Liberal, Woke Milley.

---

The Milley that Trump appointed?

---

Not sure what that has to do with the comment about the entire military. Maybe read before posting. The comment stated the "military" worked agains Trump. That is absolutely an incorrect generalization.

Milley turned out to be a traitor. Bad pick by Trump that he should have listened when others advised against it. You can see who Milley is not that he is retired. The Milley that is in Davos at the WEF with all the other corrupt leaders.

---

Clockwork

YokelRidesAgain said:

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Agthatbuilds said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump

---

---

Why is no one willing to answer this simple question directly.

My answer is its more important to evict the democrats than for Trump to be re-elected

---

Because the premise is flawed. There is not some mass of traditional conservative voters out there who are going to save DeSantis' (or Haley's) bacon. Trump is the GOP nominee, so regardless of whether you like him or not, get behind him.

Or don't.

The fact is that the Republican Party of 2024 is FAR more populist and working class than it was in 2012, and that critical mass of GOP voters by and large supports Trump. At this point, you decide if you like the overall premise better than the one the Democrats are offering, or cast a protest vote.

---

It's not a flawed premise. The most likely candidate to lose to any Democrat in the general election is Donald Trump.

If you want to take that risk, then vote Trump on the primary.

If you don't, then vote densatis or Haley in the primary

And, I agree, though, Donald Trump will be the nominee.

FireAg said:

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Gap said:

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FireAg said:

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Gap said:

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Most all of Vivek's voters will go to DeSantis. If they wanted to vote for Trump, they already would have been doing so.

---

Simply no proof to back that up...especially when exit polling said that DeSantis was the most popular choice when voters were asked "who would you never vote for?"...

---

This is a discussion board. It was an opinion backed up by my 2nd sentence to support my opinion.

Can you link your proof breaking out how Vivek's 7% wouldn't vote for DeSantis?

I would love to see that data and not just because you are making that statement and claiming you have proof, but because I would find it very surprising.

---

The exit polling from the caucuses done by FoxNews said that, of the 4 candidates, DeSantis was the least likely to gain support from caucus goers of other candidates in last night's contest... Don't like it? Fine...take it up with FoxNews... I don't control what their data said...

So for the sake of argument, if that is a true representation of Iowans, it means that there's a decent chance that some blanket statement opinion saying Ramaswamy votes would go to a candidate who was the least favorable of the non-DeSantis voting bloc is proably inaccurate...

---

You asked for facts. And then make a claim with nothing specifically relevant to the question.

We are still waiting for your break out of Vivek voters to that question in the poll. That is the only relevant fact to support your claim. Give us the proof.

TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump?

---

Republicans haven't exactly shown great leadership over the past several years. With America dead since 11/3/2020 we don't have the luxury of being picky. Our goal is to resurrect America. I think DeSantis would do a better job, but Trump will at least try and will more than stop the bleeding.

---

Why is no one willing to answer this simple question directly.

My answer is its more important to evict the democrats than for Trump to be re-elected

---

You asked if our goal is to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump. Now you're saying it's more important to not have a democrat in the white house. You're moving goal posts, but I agree with your 2nd take.

With the way things are going, if you want to evict the democrats, you'll probably have to re-elect Trump.

Electing Trump isn't the goal. Evicting democrats is.

---

Well, you can't have it both ways. Trump will not win the general election. It's not going to happen because all of bidens issue become secondary to the mass hysteria Trump will produce. It won't be about the economy or immigration or wars. It will be about Trump and his "fitness" to hold office.

So I'm not moving the goal posts. Trump winning the primary will almost guarantee another biden term. Someone else wins the primary, and we likely get a republican president

You need it explained to you why Vivek voters would go to Trump.

1. They were new primary voters, ie not traditional voting republicans.
2. DeSantis go the fewest new primary voting republicans. Ie his base is the true blood conservatives

Ergo it would be silly to think Vivek voters go for DeSantis. Not to mention, Vivek is a businessman, Trump is a businessman.

shack009 said:

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stallion6 said:

---

shack009 said:

---

stallion6 said:

---

C@LAg said:

---

Trump has been the Dems ***** for 8 years now. That is not going to stop any time soon.

1. No major legislation passed on his watch.

2. He spent $8TT that the dems gorged on, as did the Republicans. S much for him being "conservative".

3. He got used and abused by the Executive branch, who worked against him

4. The military hated him so much they actively worked against him

5. Republican leadership hated and still hates him and barely is willing to work with him. He is going to bring down the ticket in one or both houses.

6. DOJ has tied him up for pretty much the entire time.

7. He is bleeding millions in ongoing lawsuits that divide his time.

8. He has almost no useful or powerful allies. Anywhere.

The senile buffoon in the White House who cannot prepare cereal for himself is going to beat him in the general election. For a second time.

He is a dead candidate walking.

---

The military did not hate Trump. Just Liberal, Woke Milley.

---

The Milley that Trump appointed?

---

Not sure what that has to do with the comment about the entire military. Maybe read before posting. The comment stated the "military" worked agains Trump. That is absolutely an incorrect generalization.

Milley turned out to be a traitor. Bad pick by Trump that he should have listened when others advised against it. You can see who Milley is not that he is retired. The Milley that is in Davos at the WEF with all the other corrupt leaders.

---

Clockwork

---

Learn to read. Justifying your reading comprehension challenge is actually "clockwork". I disagreed with the statement that the entire military turned on Trump. Having spent 26 years in the army, I can tell you that is not accurate. Your statement that "well Trump hired Milley" has absolutely nothing to do with the point that you grouped all of us with Milley. I take exception to that.

Vivek voters will most certainly go to trump.

Vivek

stallion6 said:

---

shack009 said:

---

stallion6 said:

---

shack009 said:

---

stallion6 said:

---

C@LAg said:

---

Trump has been the Dems ***** for 8 years now. That is not going to stop any time soon.

1. No major legislation passed on his watch.

2. He spent $8TT that the dems gorged on, as did the Republicans. S much for him being "conservative".

3. He got used and abused by the Executive branch, who worked against him

4. The military hated him so much they actively worked against him

5. Republican leadership hated and still hates him and barely is willing to work with him. He is going to bring down the ticket in one or both houses.

6. DOJ has tied him up for pretty much the entire time.

7. He is bleeding millions in ongoing lawsuits that divide his time.

8. He has almost no useful or powerful allies. Anywhere.

The senile buffoon in the White House who cannot prepare cereal for himself is going to beat him in the general election. For a second time.

He is a dead candidate walking.

---

The military did not hate Trump. Just Liberal, Woke Milley.

---

The Milley that Trump appointed?

---

Not sure what that has to do with the comment about the entire military. Maybe read before posting. The comment stated the "military" worked agains Trump. That is absolutely an incorrect generalization.

Milley turned out to be a traitor. Bad pick by Trump that he should have listened when others advised against it. You can see who Milley is not that he is retired. The Milley that is in Davos at the WEF with all the other corrupt leaders.

---

Clockwork

---

Learn to read. Justifying your reading comprehension challenge is actually "clockwork". I disagreed with the statement that the entire military turned on Trump. Having spent 26 years in the army, I can tell you that is not accurate. Your statement that "well Trump hired Milley" has absolutely nothing to do with the point that you grouped all of us with Milley. I take exception to that.

---

Relax man. I'm not saying the military is against Trump. I understand that Trump has a ton of support among the non-bureaucrat-level service members.

Just pointing out another bad appointment by Trump, which was a daily occurrence in his presidency. And then when that guy turns out to be bad, he's a "traitor" to Trump. It's a tale as old as time.

Agthatbuilds said:

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It's not a flawed premise. The most likely candidate to lose to any Democrat in the general election is Donald Trump.

If you want to take that risk, then vote Trump on the primary.

If you don't, then vote densatis or Haley in the primary

And, I agree, though, Donald Trump will be the nominee.

---

The polls don't support this premise either. Trump is actually doing slightly better than Haley or DeSantis versus Biden in the RCP averages.

Moreover, as Trump is going to win the nomination regardless, it's hard to see how the Republican ticket benefits from a bruising nomination contest. This is more like Pat Buchanan running against HW Bush, or Teddy Kennedy against Carter-neither won, but they certainly damaged the incumbent.

YokelRidesAgain said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

It's not a flawed premise. The most likely candidate to lose to any Democrat in the general election is Donald Trump.

If you want to take that risk, then vote Trump on the primary.

If you don't, then vote densatis or Haley in the primary

And, I agree, though, Donald Trump will be the nominee.

---

The polls don't support this premise either. Trump is actually doing slightly better than Haley or DeSantis versus Biden in the RCP averages.

Moreover, as Trump is going to win the nomination regardless, it's hard to see how the Republican ticket benefits from a bruising nomination contest. This is more like Pat Buchanan running against HW Bush, or Teddy Kennedy against Carter-neither won, but they certainly damaged the incumbent.

---

The polls for the general are way off right now. Nate Silver pointed out the other day that the general election polls also show that democrats don't even think Trump will be the nominee yet. The polls also have high numbers of black and hispanic votes for Trump. Those votes will break for the democrat on election day.

Blacks will vote 90%+ for the democrat on election day. Any poll that doesn't reflect that, can be disregarded. That is all of the general polls so far that I am aware.

The polls will tighten when Trump is confirmed as the nominee. Just wait

I'll be happy to come eat crow if Trump wins the general or even gets 47%+ of the vote

The general election polls right now are designed to make Republicans think Trump has the election in the bag.

He is not going to get more than 10-15% of the black vote, mostly from non-urban black males. Black women will vote 99% Democrat like they always do. When their community "leaders" tell them to vote Democrat, they will like always.

He will likely get decent support from Hispanics as he did in 2020, but it isn't going to be some earth shattering amount.

He will not get the majority of Generation Zombie (GenZ) despite the polls claiming he is leading with the under 30 crowd.

He will not get suburban white women and it won't even be close. Actually it will probably be even worse this time because they will be voting specifically so they can increase the killing of unborn children.

And because someone will troll with the "rural vote loves Trump" bull**** line; that won't mean jack. Trump could win 100% of every single rural vote, and he would still lose the election unless he can get significant more votes from the groups which rejected him overwhelming in 2020.

Still say it's disingenuous to lay that all at the feet of Trump…I truly don't believe anyone else in that same position, D or R, would have made the same decision…

It took time to realize Fauci was full of ****…

FireAg said:

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Still say it's disingenuous to lay that all at the feet of Trump…I truly don't believe anyone else in that same position, D or R, would have made the same decision…

It took time to realize Fauci was full of ****…

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It took less than a month for most of us and it took DeSantis about 3 months. Why did it take Trump until he wasn't even president anymore?

The point the Trump apologists can't understand is that Trump reverted to his base instinct in a tough time. And his base instinct is that the government is good and is used for helping people. He is a big government guy at heart, and in another crisis, the same thing will happen.

FireAg said:

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Still say it's disingenuous to lay that all at the feet of Trump…I truly don't believe anyone else in that same position, D or R, would have made the same decision…

It took time to realize Fauci was full of ****…

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Well I disagree but ok. Still the point stands. That decision by President Fauci I guess is when America died. FIFY.

I think folks got spooked, people were dying, no one had answers, so he made the best decision he could in the moment…he was acting in realtime…we have the benefit of hindsight…

FireAg said:

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I think folks got spooked, people were dying, no one had answers, so he made the best decision he could in the moment…he was acting in realtime…we have the benefit of hindsight…

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You are welcome to your opinion. In my opinion he couldn't have handled Covid much worse than he did because he was mainly concerned about finding ways to avoid blame and get credit instead of leading and solving problems. He was woefully exposed for his lack of discipline and laziness in doing his own research and his fear of the Media and Dems when it mattered most.

I don't hate him for it. I do think you could say he did the best HE could. I think it just exposed all of his weaknesses. I'm just amazed people want to sign up for more, especially considering how many Trump supporters were the loudest Covid critics around. That said as I've gotten older I have come to accept many things make no sense in life and you can only worry about it so much. So instead I just kind of get a chuckle out of it.

With the CDC saying "millions of people will
Die if you don't do XYZ, even the best leader would have errored on the side of caution…

You have folks in place that are supposed to be experts in their field and you have to rely on them…

He had no reason to believe that Fauci and Birk were both winging it and trying to sweep their involvement under the rug as the whole thing was unfolding realtime…

Could we have had someone better than Fauci and his ilk in place? Sure…but why would Trump (or anyone else) have a reason to question Fauci prior to Covid? He wouldn't have…none of us would have…

He listened to the experts in place, and he figured out relatively quickly that they were full of ****…but when the **** was hitting the fan, and before we knew Fauci was a lying sack of ****, he had no reason to not listen to him…he was the supposed expert…

I mean, Jesus man…people, friggin Republicans ON THIS FORUM, wanted to throw people in jail because they refused the jab…they literally wanted you imprisoned for not wearing masks and not social distancing and not taking the jab…

THAT HAPPENED RIGHT HERE ON TEXAGS…

DeSantis won Iowa. Stop the steal!


If I say it enough, it become true, right?