J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

The difference is time is undefeated and at the rate he's going there's no way he'll be in any condition to run again in 4 years.

---

Have you SEEN our current President lately?

YokelRidesAgain said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

The difference is time is undefeated and at the rate he's going there's no way he'll be in any condition to run again in 4 years.

---

Have you SEEN our current President lately?

---

The guy Trump lost to?

RGLAG85 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

I'm right there with you and have been since biden won.

Only recently have I started to question voting for trump, and that is mostly because his supporters are insufferable and I don't believe trump is running for any reasons other than grift and it's his best chance of avoiding prison

---

I'm afraid you've allowed yourself to be gaslighted. I won't be voting for Trump in the general, if he's the nominees, I'll be voting against the democrats candidate to try and stem the tide of Marxism. My foundation never cracks when it comes to that.

---

Well your foundation holds up a prison so there's that...

Ag with kids said:

---

The guy Trump lost to?

---

I'm just saying, Trump's about 4 years younger than Biden. The idea of a septuagenarian in office was unthinkable, until Reagan did it. Now we have an EIGHTY (actually 81) year old President, and unless BOTH dudes die before the election, it seems a virtual certainty that we will have another octogenarian President next term.

Things are not possible, right up until they are.

Gap said:

---

Dark_Knight said:

---

Old Sarge said:

---

So, here we are. Trump wins Iowa. Likely the rest.

So, again, the question will be asked. Will those that "say" they are Republicans, "say" they are conservatives....vote for the Republican nominee instead of voting Biden (or DemocRat if they pull shenanigans), or just sit out, which is a vote for the DemocRats?

Haley is backed by DemocRats which says enough about her. Desantis looks to be second to Trump in the long run for the nomination. The Trump supporters I know would vote for DeSantis if he were to win (longshot, minimum).

But will the DeSantis backers vote Trump when the chips fall? Haley supporters are GOPe, so I know better than ask that.

---

My bet is plenty of these DeSantis supporters just don't show upp. TDS is far too strong and emotion for these cowards.

---

I'll probably vote for DeSantis in the primary but would certainly vote for Trump in the general if he wins the R nomination.

But, here I am being called a "coward". Great strategy.

---

He's talking about DeSantis supporters that won't show up to vote for Trump in the general because of their TDS. You said you'd vote for Trump in the general. How do you read this as being called a coward?

bobbranco said:

---

Iowa rarely picks the nominee.

Don't panic.

---

There's a pretty giant difference between this go around and recent IA caucus'. It's basically over unless Haley drops out anytime soon.

Point I am trying to make is that it's too early to call anything. Remain calm. Enjoy the ride.

YokelRidesAgain said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

The guy Trump lost to?

---

I'm just saying, Trump's about 4 years younger than Biden. The idea of a septuagenarian in office was unthinkable, until Reagan did it. Now we have an EIGHTY (actually 81) year old President, and unless BOTH dudes die before the election, it seems a virtual certainty that we will have another octogenarian President next term.

Things are not possible, right up until they are.

---

Sure.

And odds suck.

bobbranco said:

---

Point I am trying to make is that it's too early to call anything. Remain calm. Enjoy the ride.

---

No it isn't. It's over. RDS isn't going to be able to pay his staffers after he finishes a distant third in New Hampshire, and Haley isn't beating Trump under any circumstances whatsoever unless he literally shoots a guy on Fifth Avenue.

(Checking references-no, wait, that would be fine, too.)

Trump is the Republican nominee unless he dies or is incapacitated by the convention. He ain't losing.

As soon as it was a not a binary choice between Trump and Not Trump it was over

Crowded field split the money and split the not trump vote

In a 2 person race Trump likely has to show up for the "debates"
If it is clown car full of candidates he can skip them
Trump on stage with anybody would have cost him support

bobbranco said:

---

Point I am trying to make is that it's too early to call anything. Remain calm. Enjoy the ride.

---

I mean, if that helps you sleep at night, cool…

But short of Trump being unable to run for whatever reason, the nomination is his…

DeSantis put almost all of his focus in Iowa, and needed up finishing with the pack in what was the largest margin of victory in a contested Iowa Caucus in HISTORY…

Folks can keep their heads in the sand…that's their right…but the writing is on the wall…

99 counties visited, over 3M doors knocked on, and millions upon millions of dollars spent in one state…

And Trump lost ONE county out of 99…

Hmmm.

Somehow I am the optimist.

Gap said:

---

Dark_Knight said:

---

Old Sarge said:

---

So, here we are. Trump wins Iowa. Likely the rest.

So, again, the question will be asked. Will those that "say" they are Republicans, "say" they are conservatives....vote for the Republican nominee instead of voting Biden (or DemocRat if they pull shenanigans), or just sit out, which is a vote for the DemocRats?

Haley is backed by DemocRats which says enough about her. Desantis looks to be second to Trump in the long run for the nomination. The Trump supporters I know would vote for DeSantis if he were to win (longshot, minimum).

But will the DeSantis backers vote Trump when the chips fall? Haley supporters are GOPe, so I know better than ask that.

---

My bet is plenty of these DeSantis supporters just don't show upp. TDS is far too strong and emotion for these cowards.

---

I'll probably vote for DeSantis in the primary but would certainly vote for Trump in the general if he wins the R nomination.

But, here I am being called a "coward". Great strategy.

---

They're trying to shift the blame to others when Trump loses. It'll be YOUR fault for not voting for him.

Not THEIR fault for choosing a candidate where lots of people have told them they won't vote for. So they had a choice and picked that guy anyways and then want to blame those people for doing exactly what they said they'd do.

Sorry...don't get to blame shift. They need to own their decision.

YokelRidesAgain said:

---

bobbranco said:

---

Point I am trying to make is that it's too early to call anything. Remain calm. Enjoy the ride.

---

No it isn't. It's over. RDS isn't going to be able to pay his staffers after he finishes a distant third in New Hampshire, and Haley isn't beating Trump under any circumstances whatsoever unless he literally shoots a guy on Fifth Avenue.

(Checking references-no, wait, that would be fine, too.)

Trump is the Republican nominee unless he dies or is incapacitated by the convention. He ain't losing.

---

Until November.

And if he's the nominee, we lose no matter what happens that month...

YokelRidesAgain said:

---

bobbranco said:

---

Point I am trying to make is that it's too early to call anything. Remain calm. Enjoy the ride.

---

No it isn't. It's over. RDS isn't going to be able to pay his staffers after he finishes a distant third in New Hampshire, and Haley isn't beating Trump under any circumstances whatsoever unless he literally shoots a guy on Fifth Avenue.

(Checking references-no, wait, that would be fine, too.)

Trump is the Republican nominee unless he dies or is incapacitated by the convention. He ain't losing.

---

100% accurate…

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump?

---

Republicans haven't exactly shown great leadership over the past several years. With America dead since 11/3/2020 we don't have the luxury of being picky. Our goal is to resurrect America. I think DeSantis would do a better job, but Trump will at least try and will more than stop the bleeding.

MaroonStain said:

---

Desantis - 43
Trump - 41
Vivek - 13
Swamp lady - 3

---

Dammit. I wasn't even close.

I got the order correct
Got Haley % correct

But thought DeSantis would keep it within single digits

TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump?

---

Republicans haven't exactly shown great leadership over the past several years. With America dead since 11/3/2020 we don't have the luxury of being picky. Our goal is to resurrect America. I think DeSantis would do a better job, but Trump will at least try and will more than stop the bleeding.

---

Why is no one willing to answer this simple question directly.

My answer is its more important to evict the democrats than for Trump to be re-elected

Agthatbuilds said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump?

---

Republicans haven't exactly shown great leadership over the past several years. With America dead since 11/3/2020 we don't have the luxury of being picky. Our goal is to resurrect America. I think DeSantis would do a better job, but Trump will at least try and will more than stop the bleeding.

---

Why is no one willing to answer this simple question directly.

My answer is its more important to evict the democrats than for Trump to be re-elected

---

I think we all agree we want a dem out of office.

Desantis sycophants are the ones claiming they will take their ball home if they don't get their guy in. I am voting Desantis in the primary but will be all in on trump if he gets the nomination.

Mainly because I'm not an egotistical baby announcing multiple times a day that I will "punish" my party by not voting since "everyone in my party is stupid except me"

You all sound ridiculous

Agthatbuilds said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump

---

---

Why is no one willing to answer this simple question directly.

My answer is its more important to evict the democrats than for Trump to be re-elected

---

Because the premise is flawed. There is not some mass of traditional conservative voters out there who are going to save DeSantis' (or Haley's) bacon. Trump is the GOP nominee, so regardless of whether you like him or not, get behind him.

Or don't.

The fact is that the Republican Party of 2024 is FAR more populist and working class than it was in 2012, and that critical mass of GOP voters by and large supports Trump. At this point, you decide if you like the overall premise better than the one the Democrats are offering, or cast a protest vote.

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump?

---

Republicans haven't exactly shown great leadership over the past several years. With America dead since 11/3/2020 we don't have the luxury of being picky. Our goal is to resurrect America. I think DeSantis would do a better job, but Trump will at least try and will more than stop the bleeding.

---

Why is no one willing to answer this simple question directly.

My answer is its more important to evict the democrats than for Trump to be re-elected

---

I think we all agree we want a dem out of office.

Desantis sycophants are the ones claiming they will take their ball home if they don't get their guy in. I am voting Desantis in the primary but will be all in on trump if he gets the nomination.

Mainly because I'm not an egotistical baby announcing multiple times a day that I will "punish" my party by not voting since "everyone in my party is stupid except me"

You all sound ridiculous

---

Who do you think started the ugliness? DeSantis and his supporters, or Trump and his supporters?

TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump?

---

Republicans haven't exactly shown great leadership over the past several years. With America dead since 11/3/2020 we don't have the luxury of being picky. Our goal is to resurrect America. I think DeSantis would do a better job, but Trump will at least try and will more than stop the bleeding.

---

I wish I could believe that. But after the last election GA had a critical Senate run off race. Trump was a total no show. Did nothing to help those two republicans because he was pouting over his loss.

Granted I believe he was cheated. That doesnt not excuse his his negligence which helped give the demrats a senate majority and both houses along with the executive. It gave that vegetable Biden the ability push through devastating policies.

I will never forgive Trump for this. Self Centered ass cant be trusted.

Waffledynamics said:

---

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump?

---

Republicans haven't exactly shown great leadership over the past several years. With America dead since 11/3/2020 we don't have the luxury of being picky. Our goal is to resurrect America. I think DeSantis would do a better job, but Trump will at least try and will more than stop the bleeding.

---

Why is no one willing to answer this simple question directly.

My answer is its more important to evict the democrats than for Trump to be re-elected

---

I think we all agree we want a dem out of office.

Desantis sycophants are the ones claiming they will take their ball home if they don't get their guy in. I am voting Desantis in the primary but will be all in on trump if he gets the nomination.

Mainly because I'm not an egotistical baby announcing multiple times a day that I will "punish" my party by not voting since "everyone in my party is stupid except me"

You all sound ridiculous

---

Who do you think started the ugliness? DeSantis and his supporters, or Trump and his supporters?

---

He is pointing out how prideful the current mantra of the over-represented DeSantis posters on F16. They want it to be known, everyday all day, that they will never support a guy like Trump. Even though Trump is objectively far better than Biden. It is selfish and prideful.

YokelRidesAgain said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump

---

---

Why is no one willing to answer this simple question directly.

My answer is its more important to evict the democrats than for Trump to be re-elected

---

Because the premise is flawed. There is not some mass of traditional conservative voters out there who are going to save DeSantis' (or Haley's) bacon. Trump is the GOP nominee, so regardless of whether you like him or not, get behind him.

Or don't.

The fact is that the Republican Party of 2024 is FAR more populist and working class than it was in 2012, and that critical mass of GOP voters by and large supports Trump. At this point, you decide if you like the overall premise better than the one the Democrats are offering, or cast a protest vote.

---

Given your lefty posting history this is great news for you. You seem as gleeful as the Trumpers Yes I know you are correct. Its why I and others pushed so hard for DeSantis.

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump?

---

Republicans haven't exactly shown great leadership over the past several years. With America dead since 11/3/2020 we don't have the luxury of being picky. Our goal is to resurrect America. I think DeSantis would do a better job, but Trump will at least try and will more than stop the bleeding.

---

Why is no one willing to answer this simple question directly.

My answer is its more important to evict the democrats than for Trump to be re-elected

---

I think we all agree we want a dem out of office.

Desantis sycophants are the ones claiming they will take their ball home if they don't get their guy in. I am voting Desantis in the primary but will be all in on trump if he gets the nomination.

Mainly because I'm not an egotistical baby announcing multiple times a day that I will "punish" my party by not voting since "everyone in my party is stupid except me"

You all sound ridiculous

---

There are more than a few Democrats/CMs pretending to be angry DeSantis supporters posting like crazy this morning trying to stir the pot. DeSantis Republicans, while disappointed in the outcome of the primaries, will vote for whoever the R candidate is because we all usderstand this country can't take four more years of a Democrat in the White House.

It's independents Trump should be worried about. He's got a deep, deep hole to dig out of with them if he wants to win them back. Personally, I think the odds are stacked heavily against that happening.

texagbeliever said:

---

Waffledynamics said:

---

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump?

---

Republicans haven't exactly shown great leadership over the past several years. With America dead since 11/3/2020 we don't have the luxury of being picky. Our goal is to resurrect America. I think DeSantis would do a better job, but Trump will at least try and will more than stop the bleeding.

---

Why is no one willing to answer this simple question directly.

My answer is its more important to evict the democrats than for Trump to be re-elected

---

I think we all agree we want a dem out of office.

Desantis sycophants are the ones claiming they will take their ball home if they don't get their guy in. I am voting Desantis in the primary but will be all in on trump if he gets the nomination.

Mainly because I'm not an egotistical baby announcing multiple times a day that I will "punish" my party by not voting since "everyone in my party is stupid except me"

You all sound ridiculous

---

Who do you think started the ugliness? DeSantis and his supporters, or Trump and his supporters?

---

He is pointing out how prideful the current mantra of the over-represented DeSantis posters on F16. They want it to be known, everyday all day, that they will never support a guy like Trump. Even though Trump is objectively far better than Biden. It is selfish and prideful.

---

When you tell someone not to drive into a ditch and they proudly do it anyway and insult you the whole time, are you going to be enthusiastic about driving into a ditch with them?

Trump's weakness is highlighted here, and people obsessed with Trump don't want to see it. He alienates so many people that you have to either really love him or be okay with holding your nose to vote for him.

Waffledynamics said:

---

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump?

---

Republicans haven't exactly shown great leadership over the past several years. With America dead since 11/3/2020 we don't have the luxury of being picky. Our goal is to resurrect America. I think DeSantis would do a better job, but Trump will at least try and will more than stop the bleeding.

---

Why is no one willing to answer this simple question directly.

My answer is its more important to evict the democrats than for Trump to be re-elected

---

I think we all agree we want a dem out of office.

Desantis sycophants are the ones claiming they will take their ball home if they don't get their guy in. I am voting Desantis in the primary but will be all in on trump if he gets the nomination.

Mainly because I'm not an egotistical baby announcing multiple times a day that I will "punish" my party by not voting since "everyone in my party is stupid except me"

You all sound ridiculous

---

Who do you think started the ugliness? DeSantis and his supporters, or Trump and his supporters?

---

I've frequented this board for about 15 years now.

I've never seen anyone as militant as Desantis supporters on here.

As far as I can tell it started with Desantis or really trump haters after the 2020 election

Agthatbuilds said:

---

I'm right there with you and have been since biden won.

Only recently have I started to question voting for trump, and that is mostly because his supporters are insufferable and I don't believe trump is running for any reasons other than grift and it's his best chance of avoiding prison

---

If he didn't run he wouldn't have to worry about prison. So it's not that.

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Waffledynamics said:

---

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump?

---

Republicans haven't exactly shown great leadership over the past several years. With America dead since 11/3/2020 we don't have the luxury of being picky. Our goal is to resurrect America. I think DeSantis would do a better job, but Trump will at least try and will more than stop the bleeding.

---

Why is no one willing to answer this simple question directly.

My answer is its more important to evict the democrats than for Trump to be re-elected

---

I think we all agree we want a dem out of office.

Desantis sycophants are the ones claiming they will take their ball home if they don't get their guy in. I am voting Desantis in the primary but will be all in on trump if he gets the nomination.

Mainly because I'm not an egotistical baby announcing multiple times a day that I will "punish" my party by not voting since "everyone in my party is stupid except me"

You all sound ridiculous

---

Who do you think started the ugliness? DeSantis and his supporters, or Trump and his supporters?

---

I've frequented this board for about 15 years now.

I've never seen anyone as militant as Desantis supporters on here.

As far as I can tell it started with Desantis or really trump haters after the 2020 election

---

I don't blame DeSantis supporters too much, this is a critical time for America and many people, college educated, freedom loving, Christians are scared. They could lose their job tomorrow. They could have their kids brainwashed into woke ideology. They could see their wealth stolen. So a candidate like DeSantis who is like them is the hero they want. Desperate for hope they go all in on it. This limits their ability to be rational. With time I think many will hopefully come around to choosing courage over throwing in the towel. I'd much rather fight for a good outcome over being correct in predicting a bad one. But that is just me.

Sq 17 said:

---

As soon as it was a not a binary choice between Trump and Not Trump it was over

Crowded field split the money and split the not trump vote

In a 2 person race Trump likely has to show up for the "debates"
If it is clown car full of candidates he can skip them
Trump on stage with anybody would have cost him support

---

This is the real issue. This should have been a H2H between DeSantis and Trump the whole way. What a great way to determine the direction of the party.

But this is why Trump wanted Ronna Romney-McDaniel to remain the chair. She is completely inept and allowing a bunch of people to split the not trump vote and she's also allowing a person to run who has a large amount of support from Democrats. It's absolutely absurd.

LMCane said:

---

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

There are many republicans in 2020 that refused to vote for trump in hopes that their defiance would get new leadership on the ballot and get other republicans to vote for new blood in 24.

How's that working out for y'all? Has the Biden presidency been fun?

---

there are many republicans in 2024 that refuse to vote for Trump.

how's that going to work out for y'all?

---

Are you going to hold your breath too while you don't vote for Trump? If it works out badly, it's because never Trumper republicans, who are afraid Trump won't be able to get enough votes, are going to B&W while not voting for the GOP candidate. That's a self fulfilling prophesy.

LMCane said:

---

and of course Trumper is simply wrong- Trump lost because he CAN NOT WIN INDEPENDENTS. Trump got 97% of the Republicans in 2020, AND STILL LOST to a dementia patient.

---

This is laughable. What republican has ever received more votes than Trump did in 2020?

LMCane said:

---

now in 2024, many fewer Republicans will vote again for Trump, he will do worse with democrats and not be able to make up for it with independents = larger loss than the last time he lost.

wait and see.

then we will get to hear your excuses why Trump lost (there is always "it was stolen!!")

---

Depends on if it will be stolen or not. We'll look for signs like people stuffing ballot boxes with dozens of ballots at a time. Unfolded ballots that supposedly came in an envelope they can't fit into without being folded. Weird polling place shutdowns on election night. A rash of running out of ballots in mostly republican precincts. Convenient stacks of 100,000 ballots that are only for Joe with no other downvotes at 3am.

Ag with kids said:

---

YokelRidesAgain said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

The difference is time is undefeated and at the rate he's going there's no way he'll be in any condition to run again in 4 years.

---

Have you SEEN our current President lately?

---

The guy who stole the election?

---

FIFY

Ag with kids said:

---

Gap said:

---

Dark_Knight said:

---

Old Sarge said:

---

So, here we are. Trump wins Iowa. Likely the rest.

So, again, the question will be asked. Will those that "say" they are Republicans, "say" they are conservatives....vote for the Republican nominee instead of voting Biden (or DemocRat if they pull shenanigans), or just sit out, which is a vote for the DemocRats?

Haley is backed by DemocRats which says enough about her. Desantis looks to be second to Trump in the long run for the nomination. The Trump supporters I know would vote for DeSantis if he were to win (longshot, minimum).

But will the DeSantis backers vote Trump when the chips fall? Haley supporters are GOPe, so I know better than ask that.

---

My bet is plenty of these DeSantis supporters just don't show upp. TDS is far too strong and emotion for these cowards.

---

I'll probably vote for DeSantis in the primary but would certainly vote for Trump in the general if he wins the R nomination.

But, here I am being called a "coward". Great strategy.

---

They're trying to shift the blame to others when Trump loses. It'll be YOUR fault for not voting for him.

---

Are you reading the posts you're responding to?

texagbeliever said:

---

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Waffledynamics said:

---

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Is our goal to have a republican in the white house or elect Trump?

---

Republicans haven't exactly shown great leadership over the past several years. With America dead since 11/3/2020 we don't have the luxury of being picky. Our goal is to resurrect America. I think DeSantis would do a better job, but Trump will at least try and will more than stop the bleeding.

---

Why is no one willing to answer this simple question directly.

My answer is its more important to evict the democrats than for Trump to be re-elected

---

I think we all agree we want a dem out of office.

Desantis sycophants are the ones claiming they will take their ball home if they don't get their guy in. I am voting Desantis in the primary but will be all in on trump if he gets the nomination.

Mainly because I'm not an egotistical baby announcing multiple times a day that I will "punish" my party by not voting since "everyone in my party is stupid except me"

You all sound ridiculous

---

Who do you think started the ugliness? DeSantis and his supporters, or Trump and his supporters?

---

I've frequented this board for about 15 years now.

I've never seen anyone as militant as Desantis supporters on here.

As far as I can tell it started with Desantis or really trump haters after the 2020 election

---

I don't blame DeSantis supporters too much, this is a critical time for America and many people, college educated, freedom loving, Christians are scared. They could lose their job tomorrow. They could have their kids brainwashed into woke ideology. They could see their wealth stolen. So a candidate like DeSantis who is like them is the hero they want. Desperate for hope they go all in on it. This limits their ability to be rational. With time I think many will hopefully come around to choosing courage over throwing in the towel. I'd much rather fight for a good outcome over being correct in predicting a bad one. But that is just me.

---

People casting protest votes to oust trump and punish their unwashed stupid Republican counterparts are not scared, they're proud.