twilly said:
Put me in the group that has misgivings about this film. I've seen it 4 times and while an entertaining film, I didn't think it advanced the entire saga as good as it should. I'm a big SW fan, will always be a big SW fan, and this movie alone can't destroy how I feel about the saga. To steal a line, TLJ just gave me a bad feeling about this.
The movie is definitely making me work harder to like it than I planned. Let me give an example....
One of the things that gave me pause was Luke and his desire to kill his nephew. I get the hermit/curmudgeon/elderly crisis thing he's turned into, but why a killer? What motivated him to want to kill Ben? That's straight up dark side right there. And that's what cleared it up for me.
Going back to the duel in ROTJ, Luke doesn't want to kill his father, he want's to save him. I'm sure Luke, when first seeing Ben's darkness, felt the same thing. Only after Vader directly threatens Leia, does Luke violently swing to the dark. I even can see similarities in Luke's lightsaber and facial expressions when comparing the two scenes (standing over Ben vs. repeatedly striking Vader while he's off his feet). In TLJ, we only hear subtle clues as to Ben's darkness.
This is where I think the movie needed a little more to ram home the darkness that Luke felt. For instance, maybe a couple of verbal "Ben! NO!!!" from Han or Leia as they are being hurt. Something that is a direct threat to something held dear by Luke. If something like that was in TLJ and I missed it, feel free to correct.
In ROTJ, after Vader's hand is lost, there is the visual of Luke's charred mechanical hand that gives him pause before he becomes just as evil as dear ol' dad. I think Rian tried to give us a similar visual with Luke holding his unlit lightsaber over Ben, but it didn't ring the same. (Was it a glove of mechanical hand? Guess I have to go back and see it again unless you guys can remind me.) A simple Vader's breath here could have made this a complete connection and made a key moment so much more powerful, and believable.
As has been pointed out quite a bit on this thread, there are just little things like this that could have gave this movie a greater connection/feeling to the previous films, but at the same time allowed it to go in a different direction.
" I even can see similarities in Luke's lightsaber and facial expressions when comparing the two scenes (standing over Ben vs. repeatedly striking Vader while he's off his feet). In TLJ, we only hear subtle clues as to Ben's darkness. "
exactly, we've seen Luke go to the Darkside if only temporarily. In ROTJ, he did so for a couple seconds, enough to defeat Vader. In TLJ, he had a quick lapse then caught himself. I do see what you're saying though, just a few more audio cues could have driven that point home. They did have some sounds (lightsaber, laser blasts, I don't remember), but they could have included sounds from Kylo killing Han as a cue for example. This vision alone would certainly have Luke question if this kid is salvageable... a red lightsaber going through his father would be a powerful image for Luke to ignore.
And let's not forget when Luke talks to Leia in TLJ, he says he cannot save him and his own mother agrees!
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