*** SW: The Last Jedi - FULL SPOILERS BE IN HERE ***

356,292 Views | 3129 Replies | Last: 7 mo ago by Definitely Not A Cop
80s Guy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Quote:

And yet, he couldn't sense that Kyle was manipulating the lightsaber right beside him because he was... too focused on narrating Rey's death?


You mean like the Emperor was when he was focused on Luke just before Vader tossed him over the rail into the reactor core (or whatever the hell it was)?
Cromagnum
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
dromo07 said:

the real question is... why aren't Snokes or Kylos eyes yellow?


Not siths? I got nothing.
wesag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Snoke is a stand in for the emperor. It's practically the same scene in many ways.
amercer
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
80s Guy said:

Quote:

And yet, he couldn't sense that Kyle was manipulating the lightsaber right beside him because he was... too focused on narrating Rey's death?


You mean like the Emperor was when he was focused on Luke just before Vader tossed him over the rail into the reactor core (or whatever the hell it was)?


I thought Kylo's betrayal of Snoke was really well done. Snoke told Kylo that he totally controlled him, and then to make the point really clear was narrating his actions. So he didn't notice that the lightsaber Kylo was actually moving was the one next to him.
Duncan Idaho
How long do you want to ignore this user?
dromo07 said:

the real question is... why aren't Snokes or Kylos eyes yellow?

The new order was successful in wiping out the anti-vaxers in the outer rim. One of their gifts to the Galaxy was ending corillian hepatitis
Dro07
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Good things he didn't Peter Pan when he was tossed over eh?
The Collective
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
One more random thought, I've already said that I enjoyed Kylo Ren the most. I think my favorite moment was how pissed Kylo got when he saw the Falcon. My wife and I both let out a pretty nice LOL in the theater.
Macarthur
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Saw it this weekend with the fam. Loved it.

The scene w/ Luke and Leia was especially powerful given the circumstances after filming.
americathegreat1492
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Urban Ag said:

I kind of think any further involvement with Hamill will be very limited. As much as I love the guy, I get this feeling he was a pain in the ass for Rian and the writers to deal with. Luke's incredibly limited showing in TFA and abrupt ending in TLJ could have been somewhat influenced by that. Who knows.
Mark did say publicly he disagreed with Rian's direction for his character, have to wonder if he had other comments during shooting. If anyone seems to have a feel for what Star Wars is and how to be faithful to that while also passing on the torch to the next generation, it's that guy. Personally, if they wanted to kill Snoke, why not just have a master-apprentice duel with Luke/Snoke and Rey/Kylo. Hell, they could've even kept the whole force-time subplot and had Kylo turn on Snoke at the last second during the duel if they wanted to do something "bold" and "risky." Have Luke take a mortal wound in the duel. You get to see Luke use his lightsaber, we get an actual lightsaber battle, and you get to keep your "boldness" and also pass the torch on.
caleblyn
How long do you want to ignore this user?
CJS4715 said:

One more random thought, I've already said that I enjoyed Kylo Ren the most. I think my favorite moment was how pissed Kylo got when he saw the Falcon. My wife and I both let out a pretty nice LOL in the theater.
All of them followed! Man...they really hate that ship!

LOL
bobinator
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
80s Guy said:

Quote:

And yet, he couldn't sense that Kyle was manipulating the lightsaber right beside him because he was... too focused on narrating Rey's death?

You mean like the Emperor was when he was focused on Luke just before Vader tossed him over the rail into the reactor core (or whatever the hell it was)?
Except that in that case the Emperor was at least using the force lightning to hurt Luke, so he really was focusing the force for a reason. And we've already seen that using that level of the force takes a physical toll on the emperor.

Snoke wasn't doing anything except holding Rey in place, which he's already shown to be able to do extremely easily.

But he was narrating Kylo's actions, so he was reading his thoughts right? And you can't like, lie in your thoughts. That's what was weird about that scene to me. If you're thinking "I'm going to be moving both of these light sabers at once, and then activate the other one" someone reading your thoughts would know that. Does that make sense, like you can't fake think, that's not how thinking works.

But so they basically built up Snoke as this hyper powerful force user, only for him to get hoodwinked the very first time we see him in person.
The Collective
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Mark has poured his life into Star Wars and has been the one person willing to give everything to the fans when nobody else was. It's not his movie to write, but I understand why he would be a pain in the ass over Luke Skywalker.

Assuming he even was a pain in the ass, that is.
3rdGen2015
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
bobinator said:

80s Guy said:

Quote:

And yet, he couldn't sense that Kyle was manipulating the lightsaber right beside him because he was... too focused on narrating Rey's death?

You mean like the Emperor was when he was focused on Luke just before Vader tossed him over the rail into the reactor core (or whatever the hell it was)?
Except that in that case the Emperor was at least using the force lightning to hurt Luke, so he really was focusing the force for a reason. And we've already seen that using that level of the force takes a physical toll on the emperor.

Snoke wasn't doing anything except holding Rey in place, which he's already shown to be able to do extremely easily.

But he was narrating Kylo's actions, so he was reading his thoughts right? And you can't like, lie in your thoughts. That's what was weird about that scene to me. If you're thinking "I'm going to be moving both of these light sabers at once, and then activate the other one" someone reading your thoughts would know that. Does that make sense, like you can't fake think, that's not how thinking works.

But so they basically built up Snoke as this hyper powerful force user, only for him to get hoodwinked the very first time we see him in person.
Kylo wasn't lying in his thoughts. Snoke just misinterpreted them. The "kill your mortal enemy" part was 100% true in Kylo's mind.
agracer
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
bobinator said:




And yet, he couldn't sense that Kyle was manipulating the lightsaber right beside him because he was... too focused on narrating Rey's death?

Kylo caught him monologue'ing...
Macarthur
How long do you want to ignore this user?
americathegreat1492 said:

Urban Ag said:

I kind of think any further involvement with Hamill will be very limited. As much as I love the guy, I get this feeling he was a pain in the ass for Rian and the writers to deal with. Luke's incredibly limited showing in TFA and abrupt ending in TLJ could have been somewhat influenced by that. Who knows.
Mark did say publicly he disagreed with Rian's direction for his character, have to wonder if he had other comments during shooting. If anyone seems to have a feel for what Star Wars is and how to be faithful to that while also passing on the torch to the next generation, it's that guy. Personally, if they wanted to kill Snoke, why not just have a master-apprentice duel with Luke/Snoke and Rey/Kylo. Hell, they could've even kept the whole force-time subplot and had Kylo turn on Snoke at the last second during the duel if they wanted to do something "bold" and "risky." Have Luke take a mortal wound in the duel. You get to see Luke use his lightsaber, we get an actual lightsaber battle, and you get to keep your "boldness" and also pass the torch on.

Where did you see this?

I actually read that Hamill was wowed by the script.

I find a lot of these criticisms the leavings of a large farm animal. The movie is not perfect, but neither were the original three.
Bruce Almighty
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Macarthur said:

americathegreat1492 said:

Urban Ag said:

I kind of think any further involvement with Hamill will be very limited. As much as I love the guy, I get this feeling he was a pain in the ass for Rian and the writers to deal with. Luke's incredibly limited showing in TFA and abrupt ending in TLJ could have been somewhat influenced by that. Who knows.
Mark did say publicly he disagreed with Rian's direction for his character, have to wonder if he had other comments during shooting. If anyone seems to have a feel for what Star Wars is and how to be faithful to that while also passing on the torch to the next generation, it's that guy. Personally, if they wanted to kill Snoke, why not just have a master-apprentice duel with Luke/Snoke and Rey/Kylo. Hell, they could've even kept the whole force-time subplot and had Kylo turn on Snoke at the last second during the duel if they wanted to do something "bold" and "risky." Have Luke take a mortal wound in the duel. You get to see Luke use his lightsaber, we get an actual lightsaber battle, and you get to keep your "boldness" and also pass the torch on.

Where did you see this?

I actually read that Hamill was wowed by the script.

I find a lot of these criticisms the leavings of a large farm animal. The movie is not perfect, but neither were the original three.
Hamill has been quoted as saying that he disagreed with the direction of Luke. But he also said that it was his job as an actor to portray the directors vision of the character as best as he possibly could. That leads me to believe Hamill may have been disapproving but also cooperative.
americathegreat1492
How long do you want to ignore this user?
http://www.slashfilm.com/mark-hamill-rian-johnson-disagreement/
bobinator
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
That's true, but to me you'd still have to be thinking about the other lightsaber to be able to turn it on...

Anyway, that's getting too in the weeds. Of the big mechanics issues I have with the movie this one really isn't that important. I mostly just agree with everyone that it's kind of disappointing we didn't get to find out more about Snoke and that someone that seems so incredibly powerful with the force would be taken out by essentially being stabbed in the back. (Which is a fitting way for Kylo to kill someone, he also killed Han with a "surprise turn on of the lightsaber," I was just one of those that was interested in the character of Snoke and he basically got tossed aside)
Laser Wolf
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Another piece of bad writing I just discovered:

When Luke does his force projection in front of Kylo he uses Anakin's blue lightsaber, the one that Kylo and Rey just tore in half minutes earlier. How would Kylo not notice this, especially since he was so obsessed with that blue lightsaber in TFA?

Sloppy, sloppy writing.
Cromagnum
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
True especially since he would have seen Luke's green one before.
Ag Since 83
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I think a) it was a hint to the audience paying attention, and b) a sign of just how blinded by anger Kylo was. Not sloppy writing
hurleyag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Also, how could Snoke not know where Luke was if he was able to find Rey and connect her with Kylo?
Cromagnum
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
hurleyag said:

Also, how could Snoke not know where Luke was if he was able to find Rey and connect her with Kylo?


Luke disconnected himself from the Force.
bobinator
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Ag Since 83 said:

I think a) it was a hint to the audience paying attention, and b) a sign of just how blinded by anger Kylo was. Not sloppy writing
I agree with this, but I do also agree it's an odd choice by Luke. So was making his force projection look better groomed than his actual self. "I need to look good for this" seems like a weird thought for a Jedi.

(To be clear, this isn't something that really even registered on the bothered me scale, just thought it was odd)
hurleyag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Snoke couldn't sense from Rey that she was with him "training"?
caleblyn
How long do you want to ignore this user?
hurleyag said:

Also, how could Snoke not know where Luke was if he was able to find Rey and connect her with Kylo?
I am still under the opinion that Rey and Kylo were connecting to each other and Snoke was interfering with their dialogue/discussion. I don't believe that Snoke was orchestrating the connection. This is the big reason that I still think that Kylo and Rey are siblings.

I could be wrong! :/
Ulrich
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I think Snoke was killed so easily because he was blinded by pride and because Kylo Ren's strength is deception. I think that was his plan going in and he was prepared to show Snoke the interpretation of his thoughts Snoke expected to see. Snoke was too arrogant to bother really searching because he couldn't even consider the possibility that Ren would attack him. Remember, Snoke thinks Ren is extremely powerful, yet Ren is obviously not that great at combat. Deception is his power, and I think a lot of his indecision and mental weakness has been a smokescreen... a Snokescreen.

It was a textbook Sith way to achieve power.
Ark03
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
bobinator said:

Ag Since 83 said:

I think a) it was a hint to the audience paying attention, and b) a sign of just how blinded by anger Kylo was. Not sloppy writing
I agree with this, but I do also agree it's an odd choice by Luke. So was making his force projection look better groomed than his actual self. "I need to look good for this" seems like a weird thought for a Jedi.

(To be clear, this isn't something that really even registered on the bothered me scale, just thought it was odd)
I took it as the projection represented how he saw himself - maybe a bit younger, dressed as a Jedi, using the lightsaber he was most familiar with.
bobinator
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Ark03 said:


maybe a bit younger, dressed as a Jedi, using the lightsaber he was most familiar with.
Eh... in the grand scheme of things he barely had the blue lightsaber. He had the green one for WAY longer.
Post removed:
by user
bobinator
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Ulrich said:

I think Snoke was killed so easily because he was blinded by pride and because Kylo Ren's strength is deception. I think that was his plan going in and he was prepared to show Snoke the interpretation of his thoughts Snoke expected to see. Snoke was too arrogant to bother really searching because he couldn't even consider the possibility that Ren would attack him. Remember, Snoke thinks Ren is extremely powerful, yet Ren is obviously not that great at combat. Deception is his power, and I think a lot of his indecision and mental weakness has been a smokescreen... a Snokescreen.

It was a textbook Sith way to achieve power.
I agree with all of those, and I like it for Ren's character (which I has basically no problems with at all.) And I can admit that it's my own fault for expecting more from/about Snoke. But like the moment it happened my reaction wasn't "Holy **** that was awesome..." it was "Really? That's it for Snoke?"
bobinator
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I think we're supposed to believe that the imperial guards are trained to resist being manipulated by the force. I'm not sure how that would work exactly, and I'm not saying they're particularly strong with the force or anything, but maybe they're a little force sensitive or something.

Also in the instances I can think of with Kylo, he froze someone who wasn't expecting it.
jabberwalkie09
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
SheriffBarclay said:

Also, kylo was freezing people in place left and right in TFA. Are we supposed to believe he just forgot how to do this during the throne room battle with the imperial guards?
Like a lot of things with the force some focus is required, and I'm guessing that used a considerable amount of focus. An amount that he probably wasn't able to necessarily muster while fighting off four guys.
Buck Compton
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
SheriffBarclay said:

Also, kylo was freezing people in place left and right in TFA. Are we supposed to believe he just forgot how to do this during the throne room battle with the imperial guards?
And Vader was choking *****es left and right before he decided to weakly toss objects at Luke... the finer points of using which force powers when have never been super consistent.

A fair answer: It likely takes a bit more concentration than you can afford with 7-8 enemies real close to you.
Ark03
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
bobinator said:

Ark03 said:


maybe a bit younger, dressed as a Jedi, using the lightsaber he was most familiar with.
Eh... in the grand scheme of things he barely had the blue lightsaber. He had the green one for WAY longer.
It's the one he learned with, and had held most recently? I don't know if there is much more to it than that, although seeing the green one (that he built) would have been pretty meaningful as well.

You could say he used blue because that's what Luke thought Kylo thought he would have ... Rey delivered him the blue one, and Luke doesn't know that it was destroyed hours before.
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.