WOW! I've been wondering exactly what the things were that he disagreed with. That sucks. And I loved the movie.Forum Troll said:
SIAP
https://www.cbr.com/last-jedi-mark-hamill-reaction/Quote:
"I said to Rian, I said 'Jedis don't give up'," Hamill explained in an interview currently making the rounds on YouTube. "I mean even if he had a problem, maybe take a year to try and regroup but if he made a mistake he would try and right that wrong, so right there, we had a fundamental difference, but, it's not my story anymore. It's somebody else's story, and Rian needed me to be a certain way to make the ending effective."
"That's the crux of my problem," he continued. "Luke would never say that. I'm sorry. Well, in this version, see. I'm talking about the George Lucas Star Wars. This is the next generation of Star Wars, so I almost had to think of Luke as another character. Maybe he's 'Jake' Skywalker, he's not my Luke Skywalker."
*** SW: The Last Jedi - FULL SPOILERS BE IN HERE ***
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Last: 2 mo ago by Definitely Not A Cop
You know it's a **** sandwich when the actor playing maybe the most iconic Hollywood hero comes out and says 'well I had a fundamental problem but in the end it's only a movie and it wasn't my movie and I just told myself it was a completely different character so I could get through it
'
I've never seen anything like that in my whole life. What a trainwreck for a billion dollar franchise.
'
I've never seen anything like that in my whole life. What a trainwreck for a billion dollar franchise.
Mark says this is the "next generation" star wars. And I believe they should have made that with Rian's new trilogy. The "george lucas" star wars is what episode 8 is and mixing the two was a bad idea.
CJS4715 said:
Also, I was going to have a problem with Rey's parents being anyone of significance considering the person dropped her off with Unkar Plutt. Maybe Rian Johnson just took the only scenario that made sense to him.
Doesn't make sense that she can pilot the Falcon like a bad A and fully understand wookie.
How in the world is Obi Wan going to Tatooine for 20 years or whatever, and doing nothing, while Vader tore up the galaxy any different than Luke going to the first Jedi temple? Obi Wan became one with the Force giving the rebels on the Death Star time to escape. Luke did the EXACT same thing.DannyDuberstein said:
He's right. The very fundamental problem that I have with Luke's story is how it is completely at odds with how Obi Wan responded to Anakin's turn to the darkside. Obi Wan did not let the fight go and it eventually resulted in the freedom of the galaxy. Luke was fine with just balling up in a corner, letting it all happen, and doing nothing about it. It makes ZERO sense. Ending the jedi order might make sense after Kylo is stopped -> you end it all there. But it makes no sense in context of this story. He basically helped generate the worst case scenario (not unlike Obi Wan), and then runs with no intention of stopping the disaster he helped create.
Wow, with that kind of brutal statement, I wouldn't count on Luke coming back in any way for Episode IX.
Obi Wan is protecting Luke. He knows that he can't stop Vader. He is doing what the galaxy requires of him by staying on Tatooine.
Obi Wan went to Tatooine to protect the future of the Jedi. He was biding his time. When the Rebellion finally called for his help, Obi Wan jumped at the chance. Luke just went inside his hut and whined.DB Coach said:How in the world is Obi Wan going to Tatooine for 20 years or whatever, and doing nothing, while Vader tore up the galaxy any different than Luke going to the first Jedi temple? Obi Wan became one with the Force giving the rebels on the Death Star time to escape. Luke did the EXACT same thing.DannyDuberstein said:
He's right. The very fundamental problem that I have with Luke's story is how it is completely at odds with how Obi Wan responded to Anakin's turn to the darkside. Obi Wan did not let the fight go and it eventually resulted in the freedom of the galaxy. Luke was fine with just balling up in a corner, letting it all happen, and doing nothing about it. It makes ZERO sense. Ending the jedi order might make sense after Kylo is stopped -> you end it all there. But it makes no sense in context of this story. He basically helped generate the worst case scenario (not unlike Obi Wan), and then runs with no intention of stopping the disaster he helped create.
Except that Obi Wan was protecting Luke until he was old enough. Plus he was under orders from Yoda to do that.DB Coach said:
How in the world is Obi Wan going to Tatooine for 20 years or whatever, and doing nothing, while Vader tore up the galaxy any different than Luke going to the first Jedi temple? Obi Wan became one with the Force giving the rebels on the Death Star time to escape. Luke did the EXACT same thing.
Luke was milking sea camels and not doing anything for anyone.
I disagree with the Luke arc mostly because him trying to turn someone bad good again was the entire arc of the entire franchise. That's why the "oh man, Kylo turned on me, guess I better quit the force now" thing is so weird.
Exactly.
I agree with the criticisms of Luke's character by Hamill and everyone here. That said... this isn't a Rain Johnson issue. It's a J.J. Abrams issue. He's the one who put Luke in hiding to begin with. Johnson simply tried to rationalize why Luke would be in that situation. He did the best he could with the predicament he was given. I sure as hell couldn't come up with a better excuse.
I go back to my initial, gut reaction when we first heard Luke was basically the McGuffin of Episode VII. He should have somehow been kidnapped. Not have voluntarily gone into hiding.
This is partially true, but it wasn't until this movie that we learned he had cut himself off from the force completely. Even with him in hiding in Abrams' movie, there was room to assume he was still monitoring everyone using the force. Or that he was in search of something in the ancient Jedi texts or something.TCTTS said:
I agree with the criticisms of Luke's character by Hamill and everyone here. That said... this isn't a Rain Johnson issue. It's a J.J. Abrams issue. He's the one who put Luke in hiding to begin with. Johnson simply tried to rationalize why Luke would be in that situation. He did the best he could with the predicament he was given. I sure as hell couldn't come up with a better excuse.
Except that's not what happened. After Kylo turned Luke decided he needed to know a lot more about the actual history of the Jedi. It was what he found there that convinced him that the whole Jedi thing was a bad idea. It played into what Snoke said as well. The presence of strength on one side demands the rise in power on the other side. So endless conflict.
You might think that's stupid, or the wrong direction, but it's not Luke quitting because Kylo went emo ***** on him. He had regrets about that failure, but it was more than that lead him to disconnect with the force.
You might think that's stupid, or the wrong direction, but it's not Luke quitting because Kylo went emo ***** on him. He had regrets about that failure, but it was more than that lead him to disconnect with the force.
Yeah, good point.
Damn it, that makes a lot of sense too.
What isn't logical to me though is that he's ducking out while the dark has already risen and has the power. I can see using IX to put an end to the jedi order and giving him a permanent send-off. Doing it this way just doesn't make sense to me.
My initial thought was he was in self exile similar to what Yoda did because of some major failure on his part. So it was kind of correct except that he completely cut himself off from the force instead of using the time to study and build a deeper connection with it.
Man, that makes sense from a certain point of view.
If there is one thing I am sure of from this movie, there will have to be several books written to better explain the Fall of Luke Skywalker and the Rise of Kylo Ren.amercer said:
Except that's not what happened. After Kylo turned Luke decided he needed to know a lot more about the actual history of the Jedi. It was what he found there that convinced him that the whole Jedi thing was a bad idea. It played into what Snoke said as well. The presence of strength on one side demands the rise in power on the other side. So endless conflict.
You might think that's stupid, or the wrong direction, but it's not Luke quitting because Kylo went emo ***** on him. He had regrets about that failure, but it was more than that lead him to disconnect with the force.
She learned how to pilot ships on a flight simulator she found on Jakku. She also restored a Hernon Class Light Freighter and was planning to sell it before she was double crossed by her partners. So there is a backstory of why she was she can pilot. I would say before force sensitive contributes as well as we see in little Annie and Luke.Jason Ag said:CJS4715 said:
Also, I was going to have a problem with Rey's parents being anyone of significance considering the person dropped her off with Unkar Plutt. Maybe Rian Johnson just took the only scenario that made sense to him.
Doesn't make sense that she can pilot the Falcon like a bad A and fully understand wookie.
Eh, I don't get how he could have found something convincing enough that he decided to cut himself off from the force completely when there's an evil that he helped create out there, but not convincing enough that he could have his mind changed back by a girl he doesn't know.amercer said:
Except that's not what happened. After Kylo turned Luke decided he needed to know a lot more about the actual history of the Jedi. It was what he found there that convinced him that the whole Jedi thing was a bad idea. It played into what Snoke said as well. The presence of strength on one side demands the rise in power on the other side. So endless conflict.
You might think that's stupid, or the wrong direction, but it's not Luke quitting because Kylo went emo ***** on him. He had regrets about that failure, but it was more than that lead him to disconnect with the force.
Why? He said disparaging things about the story when he did the first one as well.twilly said:
Wow, with that kind of brutal statement, I wouldn't count on Luke coming back in any way for Episode IX.
7nine
amercer said:
Except that's not what happened. After Kylo turned Luke decided he needed to know a lot more about the actual history of the Jedi. It was what he found there that convinced him that the whole Jedi thing was a bad idea. It played into what Snoke said as well. The presence of strength on one side demands the rise in power on the other side. So endless conflict.
You might think that's stupid, or the wrong direction, but it's not Luke quitting because Kylo went emo ***** on him. He had regrets about that failure, but it was more than that lead him to disconnect with the force.
That's makes sense, but Lukes conclusion is not logical at all. Someone else would just rise in place of him on the light side. Rey is proof of that. Maybe if every single force powerful person in the universe died all at the same time it would work.
Right. The darkside is quickly taking over the galaxy, but for some reason checking out seems to be the ideal option. I get the decision to go into exile and end the jedi order after turmoil is squashed. But doing it now isn't logical. Letting it go is basically the equivalent of Anakin's logic of "after the dark side takes over the galaxy, there will be peace"
I saw the movie last night. Liked it, but didn't love it. Probably middle of the pack for me.
One big question I have though is how did Benicio Del Toro's character know about the cloaked escape pods? Did I miss something there?
Pros:
-The opening action sequence was a fun way to start
-The Luke/Rey/Kylo Ren storyline was very enjoyable
-Kylo turning on Snoke and fighting alongside Rey was awesome
-The sequence on the final planets was full of awesome moments and visuals, like Luke facing off the imperials, the falcon being chased through the caves, and Rey lifting the rocks to save everyone
Cons:
-Rose. Hated her character. Seemed like they added her just to get the chinese audience to watch. I really really really hope she's not in episode 9.
-The whole casino planet sequence. Just felt like wasted time.
-Benicio Del Toro's character. Zero depth. Just a guy who randomly shows up for a while?
the above three items could basically be cut and the story could still be told with minor changes, but it would be a much tighter and compelling narrative
-Leia flying through space. Nobody even talked about it after. I didn't hate it, it just seemed like you could have cut that sequence and nobody would have missed it.
-In General, the characters all seemed off a bit from who they were in episode 7, which makes sense with the different writer. I just wish Rian had tried to stay more true to established tone.
-The mutiny subplot. Why wouldn't the purple-haired gal tell everyone her plan? There was zero reason to keep it secret, except to make the audience feel Finn's mission mattered. I mean, what if the purple haired gal trips and dies without telling anyone her plan? It just defies logic that she'd let everyone think they were going to die.
-Not a huge complaint by any stretch, but it was odd they made SUCH A BIG DEAL about who Rey's parents were, only to say they were nobodies. She didn't even seem to care who they were in episode 7, she just wanted to rejoin them. This desire to know who they were sure seemed random.
The crazy thing is all that bad stuff could have been cut and, with a few changes, you'd have a tighter, sharper story. You could have replaced rose, the casinos, and Del Toro with a Poe + Finn mission to board the Star Destroyer and play guerilla war on the inside, sabotaging things to slow it down. (The empire could have tractor-beamed a smaller cruiser for capture, for example, with Poe, Finn and a rebel strike team on board ready to blast its way out and into the ship's guts followings Finn's guidance. Phasma could have led the attempts to find and stop them.) This would still end with their eventual capture, but it would be Poe and Finn instead of Rose and Finn. Snoke could pull the cloaked ships plan from their minds.
One big question I have though is how did Benicio Del Toro's character know about the cloaked escape pods? Did I miss something there?
Pros:
-The opening action sequence was a fun way to start
-The Luke/Rey/Kylo Ren storyline was very enjoyable
-Kylo turning on Snoke and fighting alongside Rey was awesome
-The sequence on the final planets was full of awesome moments and visuals, like Luke facing off the imperials, the falcon being chased through the caves, and Rey lifting the rocks to save everyone
Cons:
-Rose. Hated her character. Seemed like they added her just to get the chinese audience to watch. I really really really hope she's not in episode 9.
-The whole casino planet sequence. Just felt like wasted time.
-Benicio Del Toro's character. Zero depth. Just a guy who randomly shows up for a while?
the above three items could basically be cut and the story could still be told with minor changes, but it would be a much tighter and compelling narrative
-Leia flying through space. Nobody even talked about it after. I didn't hate it, it just seemed like you could have cut that sequence and nobody would have missed it.
-In General, the characters all seemed off a bit from who they were in episode 7, which makes sense with the different writer. I just wish Rian had tried to stay more true to established tone.
-The mutiny subplot. Why wouldn't the purple-haired gal tell everyone her plan? There was zero reason to keep it secret, except to make the audience feel Finn's mission mattered. I mean, what if the purple haired gal trips and dies without telling anyone her plan? It just defies logic that she'd let everyone think they were going to die.
-Not a huge complaint by any stretch, but it was odd they made SUCH A BIG DEAL about who Rey's parents were, only to say they were nobodies. She didn't even seem to care who they were in episode 7, she just wanted to rejoin them. This desire to know who they were sure seemed random.
The crazy thing is all that bad stuff could have been cut and, with a few changes, you'd have a tighter, sharper story. You could have replaced rose, the casinos, and Del Toro with a Poe + Finn mission to board the Star Destroyer and play guerilla war on the inside, sabotaging things to slow it down. (The empire could have tractor-beamed a smaller cruiser for capture, for example, with Poe, Finn and a rebel strike team on board ready to blast its way out and into the ship's guts followings Finn's guidance. Phasma could have led the attempts to find and stop them.) This would still end with their eventual capture, but it would be Poe and Finn instead of Rose and Finn. Snoke could pull the cloaked ships plan from their minds.
Thanks and gig'em
He overheard Poe talking through BB8 while they were working ot get into the tracking room.Aggie_Journalist said:
One big question I have though is how did Benicio Del Toro's character know about the cloaked escape pods? Did I miss something there?
My comment was about him not towing the company line. Now that he has had his "big" moment, will Disney put up with him saying negative things about the franchise?Texaggie7nine said:Why? He said disparaging things about the story when he did the first one as well.twilly said:
Wow, with that kind of brutal statement, I wouldn't count on Luke coming back in any way for Episode IX.
TCTTS said:
I agree with the criticisms of Luke's character by Hamill and everyone here. That said... this isn't a Rain Johnson issue. It's a J.J. Abrams issue. He's the one who put Luke in hiding to begin with. Johnson simply tried to rationalize why Luke would be in that situation. He did the best he could with the predicament he was given. I sure as hell couldn't come up with a better excuse.
He is researching the ancient teachings of the Jedi and communing with the spirits of the Force to try to learn why Skywalkers keep turning to the darkside.
He crashed on the planet and couldn't get off the island without some new part. Something about the planet makes it difficult to use force powered walkie talkie.
I think I could come up with some better ones than he just ran away and hid. Have him going there to do something useful and then he gets stuck.
Ah, thanks!
Thanks and gig'em
This.SeattleAgJr said:
Rey: He just murdered his father in cold blood. He almost killed me and Finn. He has lead a team of mercenaries around the galaxy committing terror and murder, and took part in the physical destruction of several planets.
But I know he can be redeemed!!!!!!!
And this is why I did not like nor think the force chats were needed or necessary. Kylo literally stood by as an accomplice to mass planetary genocide but f it, let's have so slightly sex tensioned teeny force chats and even touch hands until the grumpy old guy catches us. Sigh....................
Texaggie7nine said:Why? He said disparaging things about the story when he did the first one as well.twilly said:
Wow, with that kind of brutal statement, I wouldn't count on Luke coming back in any way for Episode IX.
He said that he had problems with the script, but that when he saw the finished product he understood and really liked it. This time around the movie is out and he's still trashing it.
If you take out the bit about him putting on a shirt which I think was just a bad attempt at humor, I thought the force chats or "forcetime" as someone earlier in the thread put it, were some of the best parts of the movie.
amercer said:
Except that's not what happened. After Kylo turned Luke decided he needed to know a lot more about the actual history of the Jedi. It was what he found there that convinced him that the whole Jedi thing was a bad idea. It played into what Snoke said as well. The presence of strength on one side demands the rise in power on the other side. So endless conflict.
You might think that's stupid, or the wrong direction, but it's not Luke quitting because Kylo went emo ***** on him. He had regrets about that failure, but it was more than that lead him to disconnect with the force.
I remember thinking this during the movie, but Like never actually says this that I remember.
Something like that should have been explicitly stated at some point. Yeah, some will day it is dumbing down, but I don't think you make the audience infer conclusions like why a character is acting so out of character.
If you are going to buy into Luke wanting to save his father despite his father being a genocidal maniac, I think you should be willing to give them Rey wanting to save Kylo after they have a Force connection and she sees how conflicted he is.
I've been wondering why Luke's arc doesn't bother me as much as it does many die hard fans, because I completely understand the argument and why some people don't like it. I guess it's because a few years ago, I accepted that in order to make new movies with drama, they were going to have to trample the happy endings at the end of ROTJ. So Han and Leia didn't get their happy ending and split up after Ben turns, and Luke has to have some sort of Force conflict.
Interestingly, this controversy makes me more likely to go to Celebration in 2019. I was very on the fence after this year's Celebration, but the combination of Star Wars Land opening and then seeing the fallout from this movie amongst the fan base is very tempting.
I've been wondering why Luke's arc doesn't bother me as much as it does many die hard fans, because I completely understand the argument and why some people don't like it. I guess it's because a few years ago, I accepted that in order to make new movies with drama, they were going to have to trample the happy endings at the end of ROTJ. So Han and Leia didn't get their happy ending and split up after Ben turns, and Luke has to have some sort of Force conflict.
Interestingly, this controversy makes me more likely to go to Celebration in 2019. I was very on the fence after this year's Celebration, but the combination of Star Wars Land opening and then seeing the fallout from this movie amongst the fan base is very tempting.
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