*** SW: The Last Jedi - FULL SPOILERS BE IN HERE ***

356,298 Views | 3129 Replies | Last: 7 mo ago by Definitely Not A Cop
MrPlow2010
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Yea it makes the other ones not seem as good lol
Ag Since 83
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:

Been discussing the series with my friends, where we rank all the movies, etc. We all have our nitpicks and criticisms for all the movies, except Empire.

None of us can come up with legit complaints regarding ESB.

Can anyone?
Well there's always the "how did they get from the Hoth system to the Anoat system to Bespin without a working hyperdrive?" Question, but I think the working theory is the Falcon actually has a backup system that is only good over short distances.
wangus12
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Ag Since 83 said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

Been discussing the series with my friends, where we rank all the movies, etc. We all have our nitpicks and criticisms for all the movies, except Empire.

None of us can come up with legit complaints regarding ESB.

Can anyone?
Well there's always the "how did they get from the Hoth system to the Anoat system to Bespin without a working hyperdrive?" Question, but I think the working theory is the Falcon actually has a backup system that is only good over short distances.


Nope. Massive plot hole. ESB is now worse than the prequels. Hope your happy with yourself
AggieLitigator
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Kramer said:

Nobody clapped.

And why do movies these days need baked in, cutesy, "funny moments?"

To me, the writing was bad. The plot was poorly sequenced. The whole Finn/Rose/casino plot swirl should have been deleted. Why didn't Holdo just tell Poe what the plan was? At some point, especially when telling a story episodically, you have to limit the plot twists. The story already jumps around and that's fine, but part of telling it like that is limiting. But not for these people. And it ruined the story. Hate to compare it to OT, but the twists were limited and impactful: 1) Vader killing Obi 2) Vader tells Luke 3) Vader turns. Through 2 movies, what twists have been really impactful TO THE STORY (not to sentimental middle aged dudes): 1) Snoke dies. That's it. Han and Luke weren't really that impactful to these stories. So them leaving wasn't really that big a deal. He'll, at this point, Leia being killed would be more impactful (and how are they going to kill her off now that Carrie is gone).

The fight on the planet should have been mirrored by the Snoke showdown. That should have been the climatic moment mirrored by Luke having a worthy ending. Instead, you get the Snoke death, then a bunch of other stuff, then Luke. It drags. Then gets weird with Luke back on the island. Then the kids. The end reminded me of LotRs: Return of the King. You have what should have been the big moment, but there's 15 more mins of crap that doesn't really matter.

The entire Luke story is just wrong. Flat. Out. Wrong. The character we see triumphant at the end of RotJ is just a defeated quitter. Ideals vacated. Bitter. And his exchange with Yoda is bizarre because of it. And that ending...wow. Just dies. No real reason. Just gone.

For the first time, I'm really hating the Disney influence. Cpt. Phasma is nothing more than a shiny prop. People try to compare her to Boba Fett, but Fett never was marketed. It was a cult pickup. Phasma has, from day one, been used as a marketing tool. Nothing more. Just look at the Battlefront2 marketing.

I have no desire to see the movie again. And my expectations for 9 are sewer low. My predictions are easy: long, more plot wiggles than a 3 year old in church (to the point of being annoying), with more throwback scenes than relevant moments between key characters.

Rant over.


I agree with everything you posted
Brian Earl Spilner
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Well, how long was the Falcon attached to the Destroyer?
Philip J Fry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Sith was most certainly mentioned in the OT
Velvet Jones
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
VanZandt92 said:

The way it's written. It's fake, as are many others.
Probably the Russians, right?
Brian Earl Spilner
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Nope. Hard to believe, but it's not. Not once. Neither are the words Ewok or Palpatine.
GiveEmHellBill
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Most of my issues with the film have already been addressed at length already. Overall, I really liked this movie but there were problems.

However, there was one thing that literally made me tear up with joy:

Force Yoda was a hand puppet.

Thank you for that.
42799862
How long do you want to ignore this user?
HeadGames
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Teacher_Ag said:

There does have to be an explanation for why critics are LOVING it and average fans feel pretty underwhelmed, and I honestly think my explanation is part of it. Entertainment usually isn't purely entertainment, for better or worse.



It has such a high rating because it's Carrie Fisher's last movie.
Farmer1906
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:

Been discussing the series with my friends, where we rank all the movies, etc. We all have our nitpicks and criticisms for all the movies, except Empire.

None of us can come up with legit complaints regarding ESB.

Can anyone?


You can pick apart any movie if you want.

The Luke dodging slow moving objects force thrown at Luke was cringe worthy.

The convient fall and slide away to a trap door so the falcon can save you is the kind of stuff people complained about with TFA.

How did Like become a Jedi when his training was nothing compared to the prequel Jedi training.

Why was Han such a dick to the guy worried about his safety on Hoth?

DannyDuberstein
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
They've got to tone Hux down. He's an over-the-top cartoonish bad guy. I think they made a mistake not going with an older more understatedly menacing actor vs the First Order seemingly led by a couple of screaming brats. I get that is part of the arc
with Kylo, but Hux contribution just makes it too much.
titanmaster_race
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I loved it. It had a few problems, but I loved this movie.

Then again, I'm not a certified TexAgs Entertainment board critic.
Philip J Fry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Looking back, a good portion of the movie was a slow speed chase. WTF were they thinking? After all that, they got into thkse old piece of **** speeders and never took a single shot?
TCTTS
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
On one hand, the space chace and standoff was kind of cool in an old school naval battle kind of way. It was clear that was the inspiration, with the whole torpedo / just-out-range strategy. Kind of a Master & Commander vibe, and I can appreciate trying to equate a space battle featuring cruisers and destroyers and what not to naval or even submarine warfare.

But man, overall, what that did to the narrative just didn't work for me at all. Once it became clear that that entire plotline was going to be a standoff of sorts, I almost couldn't believe it. It absolutely killed the momentum for me. "Outlast" and "stall" are rarely ever good devices to build a huge portion of the plot around because they literally represent stagnancy. And movies should be anything but.
Fat Bib Fortuna
How long do you want to ignore this user?
seems like you guys opened 20 new threads in the 2 days I was off line

So, cut to the chase - I liked it less than I liked TFA or RO. The extra half hour was too much. I would have been happier with whatever a 2-hour TLJ might have looked like. To steal a line from my fellow Star Wars/Ag nerd Tom, "I don't mean to sound like the old curmudgeon here, but a lot of that didn't feel like Star Wars."

My favorite parts -
  • Chewie ripping the door off (thought it was Rey using the Force)
  • Every bit of Mark Hamill's performance - he deserves every honor, award, praise and dollar he can get for this role.
  • Luke's fakeout. Now if you've read a lot of the EU, they kinda ripped it off a little bit. But man, it fooled the hell outta me and I loved it.
  • Poe - I liked his arc a lot. And he laid the mack down on Rey at the end, no doubt.
  • Holdo's kill shot - beautiful effect. The lack of noise had the audience gasping.
  • Yoda - that first glowing ear coming on screen, me and 90% of the audience went "ohhhhh!" And tomorrow when my daughter asks if Yoda was in the movie for the 50th day in a row, I can say yes.
  • Mark and Carrie on screen together. Was really afraid they had missed out on the chance to do this. Very happy they did. And his reunion with R2, maybe even better.
  • Hux - cracked me up. Loved his side-smirk at Ren when he's leaving Snoke's chambers.
  • Carrie Fisher and Laura Dern's chemistry. Brief, but I think CF really benefited from having a performer in her gender and age range around.
  • Billie Lourd's expanded role. Very special to give her a bigger part.
  • The blaster bolt bouncing off Phasma's armor. Cool minor detail.
  • The ReyRen connection. Good use of voices and sound effects

My frustrations
  • Leia's undead Force flying. Really didn't understand that choice. Someone who nominally has the Force suddenly has a power beyond what we've seen from any character ever. Seemed really out of place.
  • The whole Canto Bight part. It takes them 2 seconds to get there, 5 seconds to decide its socially corrupt and 3 seconds free the space bulls and start a stampede. The stampede might be the second worst thing I've ever seen in a Star Wars movie. Overall, I liked Rose's character but she and Finn were just taking up space.
  • Admiral Ackbar goes out like a *****.
  • All military strategy and logic thrown out the window. The other Star Destroyers sit their doing nothing like they don't have weapons; Holdo stays behind to steer the ship, then we see her just staring out the window; and if the Resistance ships were faster than the FO ships, wouldnt they eventually get far enough way from them where they weren't getting shot the whole time?
  • The skimmers on Crait didn't do anything - no weapons, nothing.
  • Just struggling with a lot of it - too much slapstick humor, things developing too quickly, no real aftermath of the Ren coup on Snoke. Not showing Rey wake up and escape the throne room. Unnecessary CGI junk like BB8 riding the AT-ST.
  • The whole - all our alies on the outer rim ... noboody's coming. WTF?


Philip J Fry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG




Only good when it's comedy.



Only riveting when it's real.
Fat Bib Fortuna
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sorry more gripes

I hate not knowing anything more about Snoke than I did at this time in 2015.

No Knights of Ren. WHere the hell are these guys?
Noblemen06
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
AustinAg2K said:

AgLaw said:

The ultimate bad guy is dead.
This is one part I really liked. Snoke was very much like the Emperor. Keeping him around for the next movie would make this very much like the original trilogy. Having Kylo Ren kill Snoke and become the real ultimate bad guy differentiates this trilogy from the original.

I also feel liked how Kylo used Snoke's arrogance against him, instead of it just being a lightsaber battle. Snoke foresaw everything that happened, he just didn't see Kylo staying on the dark side meant killing his master.
Probably my favorite part and the strongest departure from repeating the same notes from the original trilogy (biggest gripe about TFA). Imagine Vader controlling the Empire...interested to see where they go with Kylo running things in the next one.
Madmarttigan
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
So something my friend told me who is very big into a lot of star wars lore and may help those who feel that Luke never got a proper bad ass moment....

The type of force projection that Luke accomplished, in his opinion, is one of the most powerful things that anyone has ever done with the force in all of the canon and lore to date. The fact that he was able to do such a high quality projection in front of hundreds (thousands?) and in the mean time project a set of dice into Leia's hand is one of the most impressive feats anybody has ever accomplished with the force.

He also said there are instances in the lore where someone uses so much power they basically burn out or are consumed by it. This may offer a little reasoning behind his death or what I would call his ascendance like obi-wan and yoda before him. I at first wasn't a fan of the way he went out, but the way my friend explained it gave me some appreciation for the power that Luke displayed to save what was left of the resistance.

On the other hand my friends nerdy knowledge made him rage that Rey with no formal training was able to take out or hold her own against the equivalent of the emperor's guards who are supposed to be amazing fighters in their own right.

I also don't think if Luke had shown up in person he would have taken on an entire army by himself, as much as we would have loved to see it. I also still cannot get past most of the Finn/Rose parts and I don't know that I will ever rate this above a C/B- even while trying to see other perspectives. It may be a good reset button for the franchise going forward, and it may be necessary but really missed on a lot of areas.
Ag Since 83
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
wangus12 said:

Ag Since 83 said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

Been discussing the series with my friends, where we rank all the movies, etc. We all have our nitpicks and criticisms for all the movies, except Empire.

None of us can come up with legit complaints regarding ESB.

Can anyone?
Well there's always the "how did they get from the Hoth system to the Anoat system to Bespin without a working hyperdrive?" Question, but I think the working theory is the Falcon actually has a backup system that is only good over short distances.


Nope. Massive plot hole. ESB is now worse than the prequels. Hope your happy with yourself
Happy to help
Ag Since 83
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:

Well, how long was the Falcon attached to the Destroyer?
I think it's safe to assume they never jumped to light speed during that time. Why go to light speed while searching for a small ship? So that has the same question.

Anyway, if there is a bug, it's that one. Doesn't take away from the movie. It's not like they let the destruction of a star system be viewable instantly across the galaxy, or pierced a planetary shield at light speed and then pulled up before they rammed into the surface, or jumped to lightspeed from a freighter's docking bay, or....

Yeah, we're getting used to the rules of space physics changing rapidly. Which to some extent is fine. It's Star Wars, not Star Trek.

Also, noticed the use of parsecs on my 2nd viewing.
SpreadsheetAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
MuckRaker96 said:

sorry more gripes

I hate not knowing anything more about Snoke than I did at this time in 2015.

No Knights of Ren. WHere the hell are these guys?
You don't suppose the knights became Snokes bodyguards?
Madmarttigan
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
They are probably maintaining control in other parts of the galaxy. I don't believe that was the entire first order fleet.
Zombie Jon Snow
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
HeadGames said:

Teacher_Ag said:

There does have to be an explanation for why critics are LOVING it and average fans feel pretty underwhelmed, and I honestly think my explanation is part of it. Entertainment usually isn't purely entertainment, for better or worse.



It has such a high rating because it's Carrie Fisher's last movie.


I don't think so. And it has a very high IMDB rating of 8.0 right now and will likely go up a little - as the negative fanboy 1/10 voters tend to hit a film immediately and the effect dissipates as more votes come in.

Based on my audiences reaction - which was great - and all the talk afterwards in the lobby and leaving the theater I think the reaction was really really good.

I just would not put too much stock into one online voting number that can be easily skewed.
The Collective
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I didn't hate it; left theatre thinking I really liked it. I'm going to let it marinate longer before typing much.

I actually thought that they might kill Finn near the end.

I really enjoyed Kylo again; best new character by far. Driver is great.
G Martin 87
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
George Lucas should steal all the copies of TLJ and make these three changes:

  • Star Lord Leia dies in space instead.
  • Admiral Ackbar performs the jump to hyperspace kamikaze attack
  • Luke is weakened by the effort of the Force projection, but regains his strength and doesn't disappear
George would be a hero again.
Bruce Almighty
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I saw it last night, and overall, thought it was enjoyable. It reminded me a lot of Return of the Jedi in that there was a whole lot of great stuff going on, but also a lot of "wtf were they thinking" moments that kept the movie from being as good as it could have been. One thing that really bothered me is the exponential increase in the power of the force. Leia using the force in the dead of space has replaced Jar Jar as being the dumbest thing in the cinematic franchise. I also didn't like how Luke was able to project himself and Rey and Kylo having conversations across galaxies. I think this sudden increase in power has devalued other characters from the older movies. I didn't like the relationship between Finn and Rose and the Canto Bright scene was just stupid filler. I also don't care for how the First Order is being used. What is their back story? How did they get so powerful while also be led by idiots? I thought this was a movie where the parts were better than the sum. There was so many cool individual scenes, but the movie as a whole seemed a little flat.

Personally, I think the post OT Star Wars movies are the most picked apart movies of all time. If the original Star Wars came out today with updated special effects, it would get trashed for having bad writing, bad acting and undeveloped characters. It was a product of its time for having special effects unlike anything seen before and world building that was unlike anything ever seen on film. But it suffers from a lot of the same things that people hate about the newer movies. Empire Strikes Back may be the only Star Wars movie in the entire franchise that doesn't suffer from a lot of faults.
G Martin 87
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Two random thoughts:
  • The Resistance bombers were the Star Wars equivalent of B-17s in every way possible.
  • The mirror scene with Rey made me think "oh, so she's the Jedi Kwisatz Haderach."
Zombie Jon Snow
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
G Martin 87 said:

George Lucas should steal all the copies of TLJ and make these three changes:

  • Star Lord Leia dies in space instead.
  • Admiral Ackbar performs the jump to hyperspace kamikaze attack
  • Luke is weakened by the effort of the Force projection, but regains his strength and doesn't disappear
George would be a hero again.

Hmmmmm....well if Leia died there you would not get your Luke and Leia moment. that alone is worth saving her for.

But I can see the desire to have her go out onscreen but thats because we know she dies anyway somehow.

But I agree might have been better if.....

  • Ackbar stays behind and Holdo escapes with the ragtag group to carry on as leader.
  • Leia is rescued by Ackbar and is dying but lives long enough for Luke/Leia moment onboard the main ship
  • Ackbar does the light jump thing and he and Leia die.


But I think a lot of that is knowing that Carrie died and could not be helped given the circumstances and what was already filmed.

And a movie where both Luke and Leia died might be too much if it was planned that way.

Ag Since 83
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I imagine George hates the good parts of this movie and loves the bad parts
Zombie Jon Snow
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Ag Since 83 said:

I imagine George hates the good parts of this movie and loves the bad parts

no doubt he loves the casino scene and the escape from there.....which matters exactly zero in the entire plot.

huge time waste and non sequitur. the code breaker basically double crossed them and just let them be captured anyway. which led to the finn and phasma showdown. ugh.

Kramer
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I would be interested in seeing a movie that explained how the Empire went from crushing defeat that enabled the Republic to take control to the First Order taking over again. I was hoping TLJ would cover all of that in a flashback or something.
agracer
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
How long was Luke on Dagobah? A week, maybe 2? And while Rey seems powerful, she is also clumsy with the force.
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.