They had a bunch of them at the start of the movie, they just slowly lost them all at various times. Even the X-wings have light speed capability.
*** SW: The Last Jedi - FULL SPOILERS BE IN HERE ***
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bobinator said:Yeah, I'm also not sure why anyone cares about this particular point and some similar ones. There have always been some liberties taken with the technology of Star Wars just for the sake of the story. They're fun to talk about, but they don't really affect if I liked the movie or not.CJS4715 said:
I assumed the bombers were not ideal, but they were working with what is available.
Like, if one ship going at light speed can rip apart the entire imperial fleet nearby, then why even worry about having bombers. Just has a bunch of light-speed-capable ships nearby at all times. The resistance should save money on bombs and weapons and just be scouring the galaxy for the biggest ships with hyperdrives they can find and stripping them down and installing auto-pilot systems.
Haha that's a great counterpoint.
For me, it's just about immersion. The details play a huge part in making me feel immersed in the galaxy and the story, and for TLJ and TFA, it just isn't working for me.
I know I am very much in the minority with that view, but it is what it is. I will still enjoy watching the movies, but I don't see myself getting any deeper into the universe like I did with the original trilogy.
I agree the details are fun to talk about, but if you start parsing out the technological issues and small plot holes, you're basically ignoring some pretty basic ones with the original trilogy.
Like, in ROTJ the emperor leaks the death star plans to the rebels to draw them into the trap of the fully operational death star, so why did he include the real plans? That seems pretty dumb...
Like, in ROTJ the emperor leaks the death star plans to the rebels to draw them into the trap of the fully operational death star, so why did he include the real plans? That seems pretty dumb...
we're not given any reason to believe that Snoke is a Sith other than he's a bad guy I don't think. Like, there are presumably other bad guys out there.
Bob - I just want to say I agree with you and am not wanting to be argumentative. I think we're on the same page here. It was my second to least favorite part of the movie. I didn't really overall like the way it looked either. I also wasn't a big fan of the plot for that section. What I did like about the scene was that the hero's plan failed. To me it's refreshing to see that, but I also wanted to see it executed better or even in a different way. I think the scene definitely is a reason why you would rank it below other movies in the saga when coming up with rankings.bobinator said:I didn't mind that their plan failed, I just hated everything about that part of the movie.Beat40 said:
However, I thike Cano Bight piece alone isn't such a bad part to the story. I actually liked that the one in a million hero's plan failed.
I also like that we see a different side to the universe. I think it would be accepted better if in stead of the codebreaker, Poe would have had to secretly send a rescue team to them or some rebellion sympathizers could have flown them back to the fleet / crate.
I also happen to think that for a lot of the negatives being hated on in this movie, there are some positives for the exact same scene - the Canto Bight piece being one of them. The resolution to that piece is just what sets it against being overall positive.
For one, I just hated the way it looked. It looked like something out of the prequels. Now, this might be because I saw it in 3D, so maybe this isn't as noticeable in 2D, but the amount of CGI used in the Canto Bight scenes just seemed out of place in this movie which I thought otherwise had really good effects. The "on the horse running through town" bit was akin to the absurd barrel scene in The Hobbit. Like the whole time I found myself thinking "what is even happening here?"
But two, the entire plot was weird. They had to find a codebreaker, and it either ended up being a different codebreaker or Maz's plan the entire time was to have them get thrown in jail where this guy always is? Also, his character was trash. Like nothing about the plot involving Canto Bight makes any sense at all, and it all ends up being completely unnecessary.
But, I do get that they wanted to give Finn a reason to fight. I liked "the message" of the Canto Bight scenes, it was just the execution.
They could have left Finn and Rose on that planet and then maybe things could have gotten interesting for them in 9 - they could have had a hero's purpose.
SoupNazi2001 said:
? So Snoke was a Sith Lord that looked older than dirt but never appeared or was spoke of before #7? Also don't Sith's always appear in pairs, so will there be another?
Or he was an evil old guy who built and army and was way more impressed with his own powers than he should be. Maybe he was a minor local bad guy who rose to power in the chaos after the fall of the empire but never was much of a badass.
If most of the complaints are around Finn/Rose Plot and a cocktail dress admiral, that hardly makes this movie barely above the PT as others have stated. I can understand their argument about Luke though. If you think all three of those things are bad combined with the other nitpicky stuff, I can see where you would say it's a bad movie.agracer said:Most of the complaints center around the useless Finn/Rose Plot, and the idiocy of the cocktail dress admiral. Both that side quest and the admiral were utterly useless to the story.Beat40 said:
After reading every post on this thread, I wish they either:
A) Not included Luke, Leia, and Han
B) Not made another trilogy.
While there are plenty of things wrong with TLJ, I don't think TLJ even stood a chance at being considered a good movie. Here are a few reasons I think why:
1) The TFA was initially liked by almost everyone - then it dive bombed after time because it was dissected to find every possibility of a flaw and hint at the next movie.
2) For TWO years people have talked about what they would like to see in TLJ. Taking visuals, tweets, and information from other sources, people crafted a "this would be awesome if it happened in TLJ" mindset that was bound to set up for disappointment.
3) This is a bridge movie between to the finale. ESB couldn't be considered the best of the OT when it released because ROTJ hadn't even come out. It's still entirely possible the finale brings TLJ up a few levels.
4) Star Wars is the most critiqued franchise on the planet. As long as this fact remains, no movie connected to the OT will withstand the expectations.
I actually agree with a lot of the criticisms - but, I don't care. This movie was never going to be an Oscar winner. The highs in this movie, to me, far outweigh the lows - yes, even flying Leia. I personally love that this movie did not rehash ESB and presented true change.
I love that we are set up to go in an entirely new direction with a new understanding of what the force is. Obviously we are going to have a First Order/Rebellion rematch, but how we get there will be fun I think.
I enjoyed TLJ quite a bit. And as to how can I enjoy this "abomination" of a movie? I didn't need this to be Good Will Hunting or Saving Private Ryan. I just need this to be a movie about fighting in space, see some characters develop, and be left with some intriguing questions about the future.
And NO ONE expected an Oscar winner. We expected a good story, good dialog, some great action and our Hero's would have a purpose. Other than Ray and Luke (kind of), none of the hero's did anything of significance.
So - who are the heros? Rey, Luke, Finn, and Poe. I would argue Poe did things of significance - he did save the entire fleet from being blown the bits by leading the way to take out the dreadnaught. He also did keep his wits about him on crate and became the leader of the rebellion in that moment. That was significant. That means 3/4 of the heros did something significant in this movie. That's more than you probably could ask for, honestly.
I haven't really seen anyone complain about dialog, so that checks out. I haven't really seen anyone complain about the action sequences ,so that checks out. Already gave my comments on the Hero's purpose/significance
The arguments have been around story. The most common complaint I have seen is Finn & Rose/Codbreaker/Cano Bight. I personally think all three of these things would have been fixed if Finn & Rose wouldn't have been able to get off Canto Bight before Episode 9. I just personally don't think these items were enough to say this was a bad movie and barely better than the PT.
I would argue that more than one person has complained about the dialogue, more specifically the humor....too slapstick and hookey, too out of place, too often in the wrong spots, and just too much overall.
True - I have forgotten I have seen the arguments about the humor. You are correct.
I mean, we definitely could complain about the dialogue. A lot of the funny lines didn't seem all that funny (which is actually something TFA did a great job of.) Rey basically asks Luke "Hey man, like we definitely need your help" about nine different ways. It wasn't a huge issue like AOTC, but it wasn't like this movie is winning any awards for dialogue. '
But this is where I'd disagree with you. For one, you left out Leia, who almost dies and then is asleep for most of the movie. Two, you're really reaching to say that Poe did anything central to the overall plot. They go out of their way to explain that his move at the beginning with the dreadnaught cost them more than it got them. He also leads an armed mutiny which is a weird thing for one of our heroes to do and it puts the whole resistance at risk.Quote:
So - who are the heros? Rey, Luke, Finn, and Poe. I would argue Poe did things of significance - he did save the entire fleet from being blown the bits by leading the way to take out the dreadnaught. He also did keep his wits about him on crate and became the leader of the rebellion in that moment. That was significant. That means 3/4 of the heros did something significant in this movie. That's more than you probably could ask for, honestly.
What did Rey actually do? She talked to Luke to try and get him to come back (he didn't and probably wouldn't have until Yoda showed up), had a bit of jedi training, then tried to go get Kylo to join her (he didn't) and then she shot some TIEs from the Falcon and lifted some rocks to help the resistance escape from the cave. So she did some significant stuff, but it's not like this movie was the heroic tales of Rey the powerful. Don't forget that the guy that killed the bad guy was the other bad guy.
Even Luke doesn't do anything until the absolute very end.
I don't get it....this certainly has turned out to be an extremely polarizing film.Yoda said:
Here are the things I am having trouble getting over (most have been said by many others):
- Finn trying to bail again to start the movie. Really? I'm supposed to care about this guy, right?
- As pretty much everyone else has said, the entire Rose & Finn subplot. Served zero purpose. I can't think of a single thing their actions did that mattered. Forgivable if entertaining, but their high jinx were the weakest parts of the film by far.
- Benicio's codebreaker character. Just plain annoying. His verbal-tick shtick got old fast. Was he the person they were actually sent to find, despite not having the flower on his lapel? If so, they did a terrible job of making it clear. If not, well, that is even worse.
- The casino planet. Everything about it was bad. CGI everywhere. Goofy attempts at animated alien humor falling flat (felt like the worst of The Special Editions). The "race horses" with Finn & Rose riding off... to where? Why?
- Laura Dern, here's an idea. Just tell Poe and the others what you are planning. But hey, who doesn't love a condescending leader who expects everyone to just shut up and trust you despite all evidence saying otherwise.
- Snoke. I actually liked how they offed him. Unique and gutsy. Just would have been nice to know anything about him. Who he was? How did he gain power? Why did he look like that? Why did the galaxy follow him? Was it fear? Security? Other?
Most unforgivable is Luke. I am a child of the 80's. I get that this new trilogy is about the next generation and not our original heroes. No problem. Yet, didn't we all want to see Luke come through for us one more time? To be the badass the galaxy needed, and our new heroes needed, at their most desperate hour? I understand the way the film played out, he was indeed that... from a certain point of view. I don't love the mass Jedi mindtrick idea, but I think with time I can warm up to it. There's something very disconnected about the whole concept. I wanted flesh and blood Luke to be part of the struggle, but ok. It's the death that I can't get over. Why? He's just tired? Had nothing left to give? Runs in the family (Padme)? A cross-galaxy giant mindtrick like none other drains all lifeforce? I just thought he deserved better. Frankly, we the fans deserved better. If it wasn't going to be in a blaze of glory, shouldn't he of at least been surrounded by friends? How about just one? Alone, disconnected from those he loved and had been separated from for so long, it's just not how we wanted him to go out.
"Finn trying to bail again..." - No. He clearly stated that he could see this was a situation that was likely leading to complete failure and if Rey were to follow the signal back to them, she'd lose as well. His motivation was to get the signal away from there so Rey would be safe if she came back.
"Rose & Finn subplot. Served zero purpose" - I see this complaint everywhere. There was a plan that they concocted with Poe and there was a purpose for them going there. They need to get aboard the lead Star Destroyer and destroy the hyperspace tracker. Can't get aboard without being detected. "Codebreaker" can do it, according to Maz. So Poe, Finn and Rose decide to keep it a secret (poor choice) and Finn & Rose set out to find this guy. The plan ultimately fails and I think the purpose was to show Poe was being reckless and needed to work with his leadership.
"The "race horses" with Finn & Rose riding off... to where? Why?" - Where and why? I thought that was pretty clear. They had decided their mission was a failure and had to get back to their ship and get back to the fleet. They headed for the beach to their ship and it was blown up. Then "Codebreaker" shows up and saves them.
"Most unforgivable is Luke.." - After some further thought, I think the reason he chose to do the force apparition across the galaxy either was because he didn't think he had the time to make it there in person, or maybe he felt he wasn't physically able to stand up against Kylo in person. He had been a hermit now for quite a while, had closed himself off to the force and certainly wasn't keeping himself in fighting condition. His apparition looked younger, had the blue lightsaber that drove Kylo crazy, and wore Jedi robes. I think he purposefully chose to look that way. As for his becoming one with the force at the end? Likely that the feat of the cross-galaxy apparition took too much out of him....or something else...he clearly looked out at those twin suns and saw something...peace came across his face...a smile...and then he chose to go, at least it felt that way to me.
You could say the same thing about Luke in Empire.Quote:
What did Rey actually do? She talked to Luke to try and get him to come back (he didn't), had a bit of jedi training, then tried to go get Kylo to join her (he didn't) and then she shot some TIEs from the Falcon and lifted some rocks to help the resistance escape from the cave. So she did some significant stuff, but it's not like this movie was the heroic tales of Rey the powerful. Don't forget that the guy that killed the bad guy was the other bad guy.
Quote:
What did Luke actually do? He talked to Yoda, had a bit of jedi training, then tried to go rescue his friends (he didn't) and then he had a light saber fight with Vader, got his hand chopped off, found out who his dad is and had to be rescued by his sister while hanging onto the bottom of cloud city by one hand (literally). So he did some significant stuff, but it's not like this movie was the heroic tales of Luke the powerful. Don't forget that nobody killed the bad guy and he is just as powerful as before. Given the whole one-handed, untrained hero with daddy issues thing, maybe more powerful.
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. It's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchill
This is good...FTACO97 said:
I don't get it....this certainly has turned out to be an extremely polarizing film.
"Finn trying to bail again..." - No. He clearly stated that he could see this was a situation that was likely leading to complete failure and if Rey were to follow the signal back to them, she'd lose as well. His motivation was to get the signal away from there so Rey would be safe if she came back.
"Rose & Finn subplot. Served zero purpose" - I see this complaint everywhere. There was a plan that they concocted with Poe and there was a purpose for them going there. They need to get aboard the lead Star Destroyer and destroy the hyperspace tracker. Can't get aboard without being detected. "Codebreaker" can do it, according to Maz. So Poe, Finn and Rose decide to keep it a secret (poor choice) and Finn & Rose set out to find this guy. The plan ultimately fails and I think the purpose was to show Poe was being reckless and needed to work with his leadership.
"The "race horses" with Finn & Rose riding off... to where? Why?" - Where and why? I thought that was pretty clear. They had decided their mission was a failure and had to get back to their ship and get back to the fleet. They headed for the beach to their ship and it was blown up. Then "Codebreaker" shows up and saves them.
"Most unforgivable is Luke.." - After some further thought, I think the reason he chose to do the force apparition across the galaxy either was because he didn't think he had the time to make it there in person, or maybe he felt he wasn't physically able to stand up against Kylo in person. He had been a hermit now for quite a while, had closed himself off to the force and certainly wasn't keeping himself in fighting condition. His apparition looked younger, had the blue lightsaber that drove Kylo crazy, and wore Jedi robes. I think he purposefully chose to look that way. As for his becoming one with the force at the end? Likely that the feat of the cross-galaxy apparition took too much out of him....or something else...he clearly looked out at those twin suns and saw something...peace came across his face...a smile...and then he chose to go, at least it felt that way to me.
Except Luke as a character is obviously a lot different at the end of the movie than he is at the beginning. Even literally he has an arm chopped off.
Is Rey's character any different?
Is Rey's character any different?
#where's luke's hand?bobinator said:
Except Luke as a character is obviously a lot different at the end of the movie than he is at the beginning. Even literally he has an arm chopped off.
Is Rey's character any different?
I like the conversation we're having.bobinator said:
I mean, we definitely could complain about the dialogue. A lot of the funny lines didn't seem all that funny (which is actually something TFA did a great job of.) Rey basically asks Luke "Hey man, like we definitely need your help" about nine different ways. It wasn't a huge issue like AOTC, but it wasn't like this movie is winning any awards for dialogue. 'But this is where I'd disagree with you. For one, you left out Leia, who almost dies and then is asleep for most of the movie. Two, you're really reaching to say that Poe did anything central to the overall plot. They go out of their way to explain that his move at the beginning with the dreadnaught cost them more than it got them. He also leads an armed mutiny which is a weird thing for one of our heroes to do and it puts the whole resistance at risk.Quote:
So - who are the heros? Rey, Luke, Finn, and Poe. I would argue Poe did things of significance - he did save the entire fleet from being blown the bits by leading the way to take out the dreadnaught. He also did keep his wits about him on crate and became the leader of the rebellion in that moment. That was significant. That means 3/4 of the heros did something significant in this movie. That's more than you probably could ask for, honestly.
What did Rey actually do? She talked to Luke to try and get him to come back (he didn't and probably wouldn't have until Yoda showed up), had a bit of jedi training, then tried to go get Kylo to join her (he didn't) and then she shot some TIEs from the Falcon and lifted some rocks to help the resistance escape from the cave. So she did some significant stuff, but it's not like this movie was the heroic tales of Rey the powerful. Don't forget that the guy that killed the bad guy was the other bad guy.
Even Luke doesn't do anything until the absolute very end.
I did leave out Leia, kind of on purpose. I'm not sure she's meant to be the hero in these specific set of movies.
I guess to finish the discussion are we saying something of significance has to be good or ends well? Poe and Rey each did significant things in this movie.
I think the fact that this is the bridge movie from 7 to 9 is very important for this conversation, because our Heroes Poe and Rey are smack dab in the middle of the Hero's journey. This is why I think TLJ has the ability to go up a few levels after Episode 9 comes out. What they do in those movies will make us look back and reassess the things they did.
I just think what Luke does is the ultimate Hero move. He allows the entire remainder of the rebellion to live and "sacrifices" himself. Hell, becomes even more of a legend as we see the kids telling his story.
Other than her epiphany that she doesn't need Luke to save her friends and the corresponding new-found belief in herself?bobinator said:
Except Luke as a character is obviously a lot different at the end of the movie than he is at the beginning. Even literally he has an arm chopped off.
Is Rey's character any different?
She may not physically be different, but she is certainly different in her mental make up.
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. It's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchill
Yes. This.Beat40 said:
I just think what Luke does is the ultimate Hero move. He allows the entire remainder of the rebellion to live and "sacrifices" himself. Hell, becomes even more of a legend as we see the kids telling his story.
bobinator said:
I agree the details are fun to talk about, but if you start parsing out the technological issues and small plot holes, you're basically ignoring some pretty basic ones with the original trilogy.
Like, in ROTJ the emperor leaks the death star plans to the rebels to draw them into the trap of the fully operational death star, so why did he include the real plans? That seems pretty dumb...
Maybe because the rebellion had the original Death Star plans and might pick up on it being a trap if there was a strange anomaly if they cross referenced the original Death Star plans with the new Death Star plans?
Also......the basic way to destroy it was the same....go in, take out the main reactor, cause a chain reaction that makes it go boom. Everyone knew this, so there wasn't literally no reason to falsify the plans to cover up anything. The emperor had already falsified the construction schedule to make it appear as though the Death Star wasn't operational when it in fact was. If you talked with information like that too much it begins to look falsified. So the emperor wasn't dumb. He just was careful with laying his trap.
Fascinating discussion if you have 40 minutes. Both sides of the fence on TLJ:
I think Rey's character is different. She tells Luke she has this thing inside of her that she doesn't know what it is and is afraid of it. She faces the dark side head on, finds she's got really no one to lean on but herself, and doesn't give in. The fact she's willing to have this conversation with Kylo instead of Luke is telling that she is comfortable with who she is, confident, and has resolve.bobinator said:
Except Luke as a character is obviously a lot different at the end of the movie than he is at the beginning. Even literally he has an arm chopped off.
Is Rey's character any different?
She's was brave in the beginning of the movie, but I believe she knows she has purpose now - to look to the future rather than her past. She's let go.
Beat40 said:I like the conversation we're having.bobinator said:
I mean, we definitely could complain about the dialogue. A lot of the funny lines didn't seem all that funny (which is actually something TFA did a great job of.) Rey basically asks Luke "Hey man, like we definitely need your help" about nine different ways. It wasn't a huge issue like AOTC, but it wasn't like this movie is winning any awards for dialogue. 'But this is where I'd disagree with you. For one, you left out Leia, who almost dies and then is asleep for most of the movie. Two, you're really reaching to say that Poe did anything central to the overall plot. They go out of their way to explain that his move at the beginning with the dreadnaught cost them more than it got them. He also leads an armed mutiny which is a weird thing for one of our heroes to do and it puts the whole resistance at risk.Quote:
So - who are the heros? Rey, Luke, Finn, and Poe. I would argue Poe did things of significance - he did save the entire fleet from being blown the bits by leading the way to take out the dreadnaught. He also did keep his wits about him on crate and became the leader of the rebellion in that moment. That was significant. That means 3/4 of the heros did something significant in this movie. That's more than you probably could ask for, honestly.
What did Rey actually do? She talked to Luke to try and get him to come back (he didn't and probably wouldn't have until Yoda showed up), had a bit of jedi training, then tried to go get Kylo to join her (he didn't) and then she shot some TIEs from the Falcon and lifted some rocks to help the resistance escape from the cave. So she did some significant stuff, but it's not like this movie was the heroic tales of Rey the powerful. Don't forget that the guy that killed the bad guy was the other bad guy.
Even Luke doesn't do anything until the absolute very end.
I did leave out Leia, kind of on purpose. I'm not sure she's meant to be the hero in these specific set of movies.
I guess to finish the discussion are we saying something of significance has to be good or ends well? Poe and Rey each did significant things in this movie.
I think the fact that this is the bridge movie from 7 to 9 is very important for this conversation, because our Heroes Poe and Rey are smack dab in the middle of the Hero's journey. This is why I think TLJ has the ability to go up a few levels after Episode 9 comes out. What they do in those movies will make us look back and reassess the things they did.
I just think what Luke does is the ultimate Hero move. He allows the entire remainder of the rebellion to live and "sacrifices" himself. Hell, becomes even more of a legend as we see the kids telling his story.
I see where you are going with this. The problem that I have with this is that all of the backstory we got in TFA was supposed to lead us to a point in TLJ where the history of the conflict and the conflict between characters was better understood. JJ Abrams led us to believe that finding Luke would answer some of those questions, that Luke was the missing piece to ge puzzle so that we could figure out how the Star Wars universe went to crap over the course of the 25 years or so after ROTJ. Instead we got lightsabers tossed over the edge, Rey who was supposed to be integral to the plot, and the "shocking" revelation that she is not connected to the story AT ALL. After JJ Abrams laid Easter egg after hunt after teaser that Rey's backstory was integral to the plot.
In ESB we got answers and the history of the conflict was moved forward. In TLJ we got answers that made no sense or that didn't make sense in the context of everything TFA set up.
I understood letting Rian direct, but from everything I read he had ALOT of creative freedom in the script and story and I don't think he and Abrams were on the same page in regards to their vision for the story.
One of the biggest reasons people wanted the next set of trilogies was they wanted to see how Luke had developed and we didn't really get to see that. Luke's deatg was nonsensical and stupid and unneeded.
If you're going to kill him that is fine. But Johnson seriously needed to get some tips from George R Martin or Joss Whedon first so he could make the death one that fans would love and hate and not just roll their eyes over.
I only read the first 20 pages of this thread, so idk what's been added in the latter half.
I really enjoyed the movie. Flying Leia was dumb, they could have toned Hux down a tad, too much cgi in the casino.
I liked seeing the casino world, it is hard to imagine a universe with intergalactic travel where every world is either a desert waste or a jungle filled with teddy bears. Someone has to be rich. I think that story line would habe been infinitely better if instead of some codebreaker, they went to get help from a major weapons dealer: Lando Calrissian (sp?). Throw in some member berries with having the kids convince Lando to risk his fortune by helping would habe made that whole arc go down a lot better. I do like that their planned failed.
I laughed at all the places I was supposed to (I think) but Poe's your mom joke and projection Luke's shoulder dusting were very eye rolling.
I don't care about Snoke's back story, he's an evil guy bent on domination, good enough. While it would have been neat to see Luke do "more" I'm not mad at how they used him. I hope Rey's parents reveal stays with them being nobodies.
I really enjoyed the movie. Flying Leia was dumb, they could have toned Hux down a tad, too much cgi in the casino.
I liked seeing the casino world, it is hard to imagine a universe with intergalactic travel where every world is either a desert waste or a jungle filled with teddy bears. Someone has to be rich. I think that story line would habe been infinitely better if instead of some codebreaker, they went to get help from a major weapons dealer: Lando Calrissian (sp?). Throw in some member berries with having the kids convince Lando to risk his fortune by helping would habe made that whole arc go down a lot better. I do like that their planned failed.
I laughed at all the places I was supposed to (I think) but Poe's your mom joke and projection Luke's shoulder dusting were very eye rolling.
I don't care about Snoke's back story, he's an evil guy bent on domination, good enough. While it would have been neat to see Luke do "more" I'm not mad at how they used him. I hope Rey's parents reveal stays with them being nobodies.
For the record, Abrams absolutely loved Johnson's script, to the point where he was jealous he wasn't directing it. I've seen it mentioned a few times now here that the two clearly weren't on the same page or that Abrams must have hated what Johnson did to certain threads, but that's just not the case. I'm not taking a side here, just stating the facts.
From reading everything here, I'm beginning to wonder if The Last Jedi might become a more divisive movie than The Phantom Menace.
I miss the days when we could just blame George Lucas!Cinco Ranch Aggie said:
From reading everything here, I'm beginning to wonder if The Last Jedi might become a more divisive movie than The Phantom Menace.
Cinco Ranch Aggie said:
From reading everything here, I'm beginning to wonder if The Last Jedi might become a more divisive movie than The Phantom Menace.
The Phantom Menace has a higher audience score from both Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic.
What do you mean threads?TCTTS said:
For the record, Abrams absolutely loved Johnson's script, to the point where he was jealous he wasn't directing it. I've seen it mentioned a few times now here that the two clearly weren't on the same page or that Abrams must have hated what Johnson did to certain threads, but that's just not the case. I'm not taking a side here, just stating the facts.
I mean his whole plan was foiled by a handful of people and some bears because they weren't guarding the shield generator well enough. It doesn't seem like an amazing plan.Ags4DaWin said:
He just was careful with laying his trap.
I'm just saying that if you get really into the weeds you can break apart any of the movies, so those kinds of things aren't why I didn't think this one was particularly good.
Like Rey handing Luke the lightsaber in TFA and then Luke just throwing it off the cliff in TLJ. Things that were set up in TFA and then basically dismissed in TLJ. Snoke, Rey's parentage, etc.
this wasn't the problem for me except Luke brushing his shoulder. The subplot lack of development and the unbelievable space battles were more where it hit me wrong. Ok well there are other things, but those two really made me confused.FL_Ag1998 said:
I would argue that more than one person has complained about the dialogue, more specifically the humor....too slapstick and hookey, too out of place, too often in the wrong spots, and just too much overall.
So you're saying JJ was on board with this jazz? I guess he had to be. Really these guys needed an editor to come in and try and find some consistency . They needed an overview of how things were going to play.TCTTS said:
Like Rey handing Luke the lightsaber in TFA and then Luke just throwing it off the cliff in TLJ. Things that were set up in TFA and then basically dismissed in TLJ. Snoke, Rey's parentage, etc.
She had some belief in herself anyway, she went after Kylo Ren at Starkiller Base and would have killed him had it not started splitting apart.pagerman @ work said:
Other than her epiphany that she doesn't need Luke to save her friends and the corresponding new-found belief in herself?
She may not physically be different, but she is certainly different in her mental make up.
Let me say this another way, in Empire, Luke tries several things and fails. He can't lift the x-wing because he doesn't believe in himself so Yoda does it, leading to the GREAT "that is why you fail" line. Like even though it didn't take a lot of screen time, his Jedi training was obviously trying and failing and learning.
Rey doesn't fail at anything except convincing other people to help her. She couldn't defeat Snoke, but she knew that going in. Her plan all along was for Kylo to help her kill him, and he ends up doing it.
I guess she knows that not even Luke can help her, but being independent has really been her thing the whole way.
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