*** SW: The Last Jedi - FULL SPOILERS BE IN HERE ***

356,263 Views | 3129 Replies | Last: 7 mo ago by Definitely Not A Cop
agracer
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AG
So at the end of the day this move becomes better than or on the level of ESB if;

- No Leah Space walk (really, what was the point of that whole story arc...to put some random 'Admiral' no one has ever heard of in charge of being a terrible leader by not telling anyone anything....)
- No Rose/Finn side mission (replace with Finn/Poe trying to sneak about First Order ship to break trace thing as high risk/high payoff plan B as secret transport option as Plan A)
- No Rose/Finn side mission = no Admiral Haldo = Akbar does light speed jump into First Order Ship

We can still have showdown with Phasma/Finn (which should have been longer/drawn out and Phasma death should have been more epic - assuming she is dead) and the battle on Kotaku and the 'ghost Luke' (understand some did not like it, but I think most would concede it was a bad ass use of the Force)

All the other holes/issues were very minor IMO. But those three really sunk the movie overall.

And Honestly, Finn's character was way marginalized in their movie. His whole purpose in the movie was a complete waste..
Koldus131
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AG
Depends on if you believe Kylo or not. He may have been trying to manipulate Rey in a moment of weakness and lied to try and convince her to join him.

I'd like to believe that, but I tend to side that he was truthful because a major theme of this trilogy seems to be nobodies being able to become somebodies.
Bruce Almighty
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AG
Hulla Baller said:

I'm confused about Rey's parents. Are they actually nobodies? Was it confirmed? That would be pretty disappointing if true.


I doubt her parents are nobodies. I think that was Kylo tapping into her greatest fear about where she comes from. This trilogy has had a ton of recycled storylines, and I doubt they'll deviate from the biggest: the Skywalker family drama.
The Collective
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AG
Another annoyance was the code breaker character and all of the secrecy during production and post-production, "we just call him DJ". Dafuq? Why have all of this secrecy for something so meaningless and dumb.
Dro07
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I don't buy the Rey parents thing. The perfect way to put an end to the Rey sky walker theory would have been when Luke last comments to Kylo. He could have said "I may be the last skywalker but I won't be the last Jedi"
Kashchei
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AG
I came in with very low expectations. Turns out justifiably so. This did not feel like a SW movie. To steal a quote from one of the first pages in the thread, it felt like Guardians of the Galaxy 3: We're doing SW now! There was no emotional payoff, I did not care about the characters(even Luke!), it was too bloated, too preachy, too slapstick-y; basically a typical Disney film.
Brian Earl Spilner
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AG
So just got home from my second viewing, and as expected, ended up enjoying it even more the second time. Once the burden of expectations are gone (and in my case, anger each time a spoiler I read ended up coming true), I was able to appreciate the story a lot more.

First and foremost, Luke's story. I absolutely get it now. The first time I watched it, I kept waiting to see him show off in some crazy, badass lightsaber fight like Vader at the end of Rogue One, but the truth is, that just isn't Luke. It never was. Instead, Luke went out in his own way, and it was actually beautifully done. The force projection that he did was an insane display of his force power, and it did exactly what he needed to do - saved the Resistance. I appreciated his story so much more now. Not a lot of directors other than Rian would have done it this way, but now I am glad he did.

Everything else that I loved the first time, I still loved. The opening battle was great. Everything with Rey, Kylo, and Snoke was great. (I made my "peace" with the fact that Snoke was a red herring and not the big bad of the trilogy, so I don't care about his lack of backstory much anymore.)

The music cues were absolutely fantastic. (The TIE Fighter Attack from ANH when the Falcon is flying into the canyon in Crait gave me chills; All the other great callbacks to the Leia/Han love theme, Yoda's theme, etc.) I was able to pick these moments out a lot better.

I still don't love the whole Canto Bight sequence though. That is the weakest part of the movie, but not nearly enough to ruin this movie. (And I still think Phasma ended up being a throwaway character.)

And yes, there are still some parts where the story slows down quite a bit, but what movie doesn't? Even Empire does.

But, overall, I have to say I think this is a great Star Wars movie. I honestly think the people who hate it will likely come around to appreciating it in time, even if it's not one of their favorites.

I said I would be ready to rank it after viewing #2, but I'm still not quite ready. But again, I do believe it's in the top half of the saga. (And to be fair, I think ROTS is a fantastic movie, unlike many on this board. So it's tougher to just automatically rank it ahead of the whole PT quite yet.)

I definitely encourage a second watch for this one.
Redstone
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Glad to see all the homages to Empire, but with a much more modern and sophisticated set of casting choices...in particular, Finn is a wonderful character, full of guile and nerve, and when Taylor Swift's "Shake It Off" came through the Amazon Prime playlist this morning, I couldn't help but think of his responses to all the hate SW "fans" used to throw his way.

Nice also to finally see some acknowledgement of the Asian-American audience.
Know Your Enemy
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So Mark Hamill apparently played a second character in TLJ.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/movieweb.com/amp/star-wars-last-jedi-mark-hamill-cameo-dobbu-scay/
Brian Earl Spilner
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Also, have to add that I had a much better crowd this time around, which is surprising.

Was in a packed theater, and there was a lot of cheers/applause in all the right spots.

Opening crawl, Kylo killing Snoke, Luke still standing after being shot by all the walkers, and even the reveal that he's still on the island got big applause.

And still gasps all over the theater during the lightspeed torpedo scene.
Zombie Jon Snow
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Also, have to add that I had a much better crowd this time around, which is surprising.

Was in a packed theater, and there was a lot of cheers/applause in all the right spots.

Opening crawl, Kylo killing Snoke, Luke still standing after being shot by all the walkers, and even the reveal that he's still on the island got big applause.

And still gasps all over the theater during the lightspeed torpedo scene.

Same on my first showing plus.....Yoda showing up, and "awwww"s when R2D2 onboard the falcon with luke.
aggiebird02
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

aggiephoenix02 said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

Yup, that's always the main reason I want to go to the first possible showing. Ended up not mattering since that moron spoiled me on here anyway.
What did they say? I missed it...
Was there any repercussions for the poster doing that?
I sent an email to staff and I think they banned him now.

This guy spoiled:

1. Luke dying via force facetime (Which sounded way too specific to be a "theory")
2. Kylo killing Snoke
3. Rey's parents being nobodies
As much time as I've spent on these threads I'm lucky I didn't see their posts. They're a turkey for doing that. I'm not a spoiler crazy guy, but they need to be banned for that type of behavior. Maybe even perma banned...
The Collective
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AG
Whoa. Yea, that dude should be axed for good. Unfortunately, he'll just return under a new alias.
DannyDuberstein
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Glad I decided to stop checking that thread months ago. Someone always has to pretend to be the smart guy. Had a strong feeling real spoilers would find their way in.
amercer
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After a day to think on it, I don't really care about the plot issues.

Yes the resistance had bad plans that were poorly executed. So has every army in history. Sometimes you don't get the brilliant idea until it's too late (or almost)

Yes the casino planet was a waste that didn't change the story at all, but it was pretty ballsy for the intricate, one in a million chance, heroic plan totally fail for once.

I wanted god mode Luke, but where could the universe gone after that.

It was a great, fun as hell movie.

What I don't like is that NOTHING we spent the last two years arguing about was really addressed. Rey's parents, Snoke, if Han knew Rey, who the Knights of Ren are (or where), what Maz knew, anything about how the first order came to power.

It was a movie that moved the story forward, but didn't build the universe at all. ESB was also a smaller, more personal film, but the reveals moved the whole Star Wars universe.
aggiebird02
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CJS4715 said:

Whoa. Yea, that dude should be axed for good. Unfortunately, he'll just return under a new alias.
I bet it was a tea sipper trying to spoil fun for us Aggies... 'cus Aggies wouldn't do something so despicable. I hope...
aggiebird02
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I agree, and I'm okay with all of that. It was a fun, cool StarWars movie!
Brian Earl Spilner
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AG
Seeing as the Knights of Ren were created by JJ and they still have not been addressed, I'm hopeful they'll play a major role in Ep IX.
Head Ninja In Charge
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amercer said:

After a day to think on it, I don't really care about the plot issues.

Yes the resistance had bad plans that were poorly executed. So has every army in history. Sometimes you don't get the brilliant idea until it's too late (or almost)

Yes the casino planet was a waste that didn't change the story at all, but it was pretty ballsy for the intricate, one in a million chance, heroic plan totally fail for once.

I wanted god mode Luke, but where could the universe gone after that.

It was a great, fun as hell movie.

What I don't like is that NOTHING we spent the last two years arguing about was really addressed. Rey's parents, Snoke, if Han knew Rey, who the Knights of Ren are (or where), what Maz knew, anything about how the first order came to power.


It was a movie that moved the story forward, but didn't build the universe at all. ESB was also a smaller, more personal film, but the reveals moved the whole Star Wars universe.
Disclaimer, I am a very casual Star Wars moviegoer. With that said, I don't see how these two statements can come in the same post. I really enjoyed TFA and like most everyone else, wondered about the plot points you mentioned over the last two years and figured those plot points to be major enough that they would be addressed in this movie, and not just passively. Didn't happen at all.

As a movie, I thought it was very uneven in tone, pacing, and logic. The very opposite of what I thought The Force Awakens nailed. I give it a B-.
aggiebird02
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Seeing as the Knights of Ren were created by JJ and they still have not been addressed, I'm hopeful they'll play a major role in Ep IX.
I wish there would be more of the Knights of Ren in the future, it seems like it could be a really cool story, but to completely ignore them even with a different story writer makes one think that there will be little hope of more of that story line.

Sorta like SNAP WEXLEY!!!! WHERE THE HELL IS SNAP 'BADASS' WEXLEY!?!?!?!
amercer
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AG
I guess the plot issues that I meant I didn't mind were the ones being complained about most on here. The useless Finn mission, the botched rebel escape plan and why Poe couldn't be told, etc.

As for why the biggest questions of TFA were ignored in this one, I have to assume it's because they didn't actually plan out the whole trilogy at the beginning. Which means IX could be really awesome, or a huge letdown. And whichever way it goes will greatly affect how TLJ is viewed in retrospect.
VanZandt92
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I still don't know what I think. I know I had fun, but it's not like I'm dying to see it again. I think I'm going to steer away from plot criticism and believability. No doubt those are weaknesses.

The costuming was good except the vice admiral Hoda and the Snoke praetorian guards.
AliasMan02
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Will do a full reply tomorrow before reading responses here, but briefly I can say this: TLJ is the first Star Wars movie to ever require two viewings to fully appreciate. It is SOOOO different in structure than any other Star Wars. After a second viewing, I went from liking it to thinking it may be the best crafted Star Wars story, even if it has a couple of warts and isn't my FAVORITE Star Wars story.

I can't wait to see what Rian does with a blank slate.
Engine10
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Quote:

The music cues were absolutely fantastic. (The TIE Fighter Attack from ANH when the Falcon is flying into the canyon in Crait gave me chills;


Same! We had just finished rewatching ROTJ last night and swear part of the canyon obstacle pattern was pulled from the Death Star raid. Could almost hear Wedge.
Duncan Idaho
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Did anyone notice the hardware wars reference? Or did I just imagine that?
ApachePilot
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AG
It was a good movie but not in the same ballpark as ESB and ANH. Maybe it will get better with time.

I feel like a SJW is doing the casting.
ApachePilot
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AG
As in the military machine is pumping weapons to both sides and getting rich? Sounded like this was taken right out of the US history since 1965
AliasMan02
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AG
ApachePilot said:

I feel like a SJW is doing the casting.


There's no reason to exclude human women and minorities from a space fantasy filled with a hundred types of aliens.
AGinHI
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AG
I don't get the logic behind a great movie requiring multiple viewings and time to think about it. It's like you're trying to make yourself like it. Really searching for its redeeming qualities.

When you walked out of (first movie coming to mind) The Dark Knight, or more recently Logan, you were like, "I don't know, I think I have to see it a second time and stew on it a bit, before I can say if it's a great movie or not."
Duncan Idaho
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ApachePilot said:

As in the military machine is pumping weapons to both sides and getting rich? Sounded like this was taken right out of the US history since 1965


No as in the parody short with a flying iron taking the place of a star destroyer.



Duncan Idaho
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Seems i didn't imagine it.
http://uproxx.com/movies/star-wars-the-last-jedi-hardware-wars-rian-johnson/
ApachePilot
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AG
Not my issue. Just doesn't flow well with the orginal movies. Imo. I happen to like the Finn character in these movies. I guess I'm just mad they killed Han and Luke off.
AliasMan02
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AG
AGinHI said:

I don't get the logic behind a great movie requiring multiple viewings and time to think about it. It's like you're trying to make yourself like it. Really searching for its redeeming qualities.

When you walked out of (first movie coming to mind) The Dark Knight, or more recently Logan, you were like, "I don't know, I think I have to see it a second time and stew on it a bit, before I can say if it's a great movie or not."


Have you never seen Fight Club, Memento, Sixth Sense, Saving Private Ryan, The Matrix, etc.? Lots of great movies gain a TON with repeat viewing forearmed with knowledge of the big payoff or conclusion. Basically every one of Rey's scenes, whether with Luke or Kylo, plus a bunch of others as well during the battle on Crait, carefully and directly build to the moment that Luke defeats Kylo. I commented on that fact after the first viewing, but the second REALLY drives it home and the experience is all the better for it. It's masterfully done.
YellowPot_97
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AG
AGinHI said:

I don't get the logic behind a great movie requiring multiple viewings and time to think about it. It's like you're trying to make yourself like it. Really searching for its redeeming qualities.

When you walked out of (first movie coming to mind) The Dark Knight, or more recently Logan, you were like, "I don't know, I think I have to see it a second time and stew on it a bit, before I can say if it's a great movie or not."

I can see it. no other franchise has the baggage, so much emotional attachment, and 40 years of history to live up to like SW. so many people built up such high expectations that no movie could ever live up to. look how many people are pissed they didn't get beast mode Luke that they wanted. some people are going to need a couple viewings to get over their personal disappointment and actually watch the movie for what it is to make an objective opinion.
I went in with no expectations and as a blank slate. came out entertained and happy with the movie.
3rdGen2015
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AG
Got out about an hour ago. It was not as fun for me as TFA, but I think it was a much better movie. The only things I didn't like were the casino and the flying Leia. I haven't read through this whole thread and I was staying away from reactions since I couldn't see it until tonight. Will definitely be giving it another viewing or two while it's in theaters.
 
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