What would have been different for the characters if he was physically there instead of a projection? Absolutely nothing. Their connection is strong enough (and Luke is strong enough with the Force) to make the conversation essentially the same either way. That's the point of the scene.DannyDuberstein said:
And they burned it by having it be holographic. You just furthered his point.
*** SW: The Last Jedi - FULL SPOILERS BE IN HERE ***
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I agree with this - one of the strongest scenes in the movie. The way Hamill's demeanor changes instantly upon recognition, and the use of nostalgia (Leia's message) to actually further the plot in a logical wayBruce Almighty said:
The reunion between Luke and R2 was better.
Ag Since 83 said:What would have been different for the characters if he was physically there instead of a projection? Absolutely nothing. Their connection is strong enough (and Luke is strong enough with the Force) to make the conversation essentially the same either way. That's the point of the scene.DannyDuberstein said:
And they burned it by having it be holographic. You just furthered his point.
If he had been there physically, we wouldn't get the super funny shoulder brush off gesture.
I actually agree with that. The Luke/R2 reunion actually choked me up. (More so when the Leia hologram came on.)
Somehow, Mark was able to take us back to 1977 when he says "R2!". He sounded like young Luke in that moment, it was amazing.
Somehow, Mark was able to take us back to 1977 when he says "R2!". He sounded like young Luke in that moment, it was amazing.
Talking about the Luke-Leia scene. As for the brush off - meh, it was fine. I probably laughed a little. There were far worse attempts at humor in this movieDr. Teeth said:Ag Since 83 said:What would have been different for the characters if he was physically there instead of a projection? Absolutely nothing. Their connection is strong enough (and Luke is strong enough with the Force) to make the conversation essentially the same either way. That's the point of the scene.DannyDuberstein said:
And they burned it by having it be holographic. You just furthered his point.
If he had been there physically, we wouldn't get the super funny shoulder brush off gesture.
It's actually kind of funny/ironic. After TFA and all the complaints, I thought, "Ok, Rian will come in and he'll right the ship. He'll listen to the criticisms and take the series in a bold new direction."
Now, my thinking is actually, "Ok, the series will be safe again in JJ's hands."
While I absolutely appreciate the risks that Rian took, I have to say the humor is the big thing I would like to see reeled back. Plus, with Luke having sort of "returned" as the wise Jedi legend we all wanted in the last act of TLJ, I am thinking/hoping that his ghost will play a major role in Ep IX and his character will close out the series strongly.
I like that the middle chapter went off and did its thing, but I'm a little relieved that JJ will be back to close this one out, especially with the characters he created.
Edited for grammar.
Now, my thinking is actually, "Ok, the series will be safe again in JJ's hands."
While I absolutely appreciate the risks that Rian took, I have to say the humor is the big thing I would like to see reeled back. Plus, with Luke having sort of "returned" as the wise Jedi legend we all wanted in the last act of TLJ, I am thinking/hoping that his ghost will play a major role in Ep IX and his character will close out the series strongly.
I like that the middle chapter went off and did its thing, but I'm a little relieved that JJ will be back to close this one out, especially with the characters he created.
Edited for grammar.
Ag Since 83 said:What would have been different for the characters if he was physically there instead of a projection? Absolutely nothing. Their connection is strong enough (and Luke is strong enough with the Force) to make the conversation essentially the same either way. That's the point of the scene.DannyDuberstein said:
And they burned it by having it be holographic. You just furthered his point.
It kind of cheapened it. Also, the fact Luke had a dark beard and shorter hair with no explanation (yet) in the scene was a distraction. It caught my attention and i was wondering what was going on vs just taking in the scene. My mind went thru " his beard looks darker? Is it really darker or just the lighting (or lack thereof)? Wait, Yes, it is darker. Wtf would it be darker? Is his hair shorter too? I think it is. What's goojg on? Salon stop on the way to save desperate rebels?"
Anyone have thoughts on why del Torros character spoke with a stutter? I'm not sure what he was trying to bring to the part by doing that.
H6RBW said:
Leia, someone who has had no Jedi training, and shown no Force abilities other than the ability to sense feelings, suddenly and inexplicably has the ability to fly through space. That scene really bothered me. If they just needed to get Leia out of the way temporarily, they could have easily just had her get injured in an explosion and fall into a coma. They didn't need her to be blown out into space to set up Holdo taking command. Meaning, they really wanted to show us Force-flying Leia. Why? It's not to advance the you-don't-have-to-be-a-Skywalker theme since, you know, she's a Skywalker. It seems like they just really wanted to illustrate "Oh, yeah, she can use the Force now, too" - without needing any of that fancy Jedi learnin'.
Why is everyone assuming that she hasn't taken the past 20 years since Jedi to learn how to use the Force? That Luke hasn't been teaching her? I took that whole scene to be reminding us that yes, the Force is in fact strong in his family. And in the moment before the bridge gets blasted out, she senses it and prepares for it, so it's not near as out of the blue, imo.
I was as surprised by them taking this route as anyone, but I'm actually okay with it to some degree. The execution wasn't stellar, except that the musical cues in that scene were spot on.
Quote:
Why is everyone assuming that she hasn't taken the past 20 years since Jedi to learn how to use the Force?
Because we were never shown that, or even given one in-passing line of dialogue to set it up. And because using the Force without training actually fits with the theme of the movie, and matches what they're doing with Rey and the kid.
Troutslime said:
Anyone have thoughts on why del Torros character spoke with a stutter? I'm not sure what he was trying to bring to the part by doing that.
Diversity. Kids with stutters felt disenfranchised in prior chapters.
If the new trilogy is supposed to be about the new characters, then you should write a story where 2/3 main characters storylines weren't pointless to the the overall story.
Luke was much more integral to the plot line in this movie than Finn definitely, and probably Poe as well.
Luke was much more integral to the plot line in this movie than Finn definitely, and probably Poe as well.
Here's the ultimate problem with the movie... The viewers have to keep coming up with their own plausible reasoning for a lot of events in the movie happening the way they did. And I mean A LOT of events. A movie can have outrageous events in it and still be a good movie if the events make sense in the context of universe that the movie is set up.
But in this movie the outrageous events are so nonsensical and out of context for the "Star Wars universe" that the only way people can argue the writing and plot was good is to make up their own reasons (i.e. excuses) for the events.
But in this movie the outrageous events are so nonsensical and out of context for the "Star Wars universe" that the only way people can argue the writing and plot was good is to make up their own reasons (i.e. excuses) for the events.
Im assuming he showed up drunk on the set and everyone decided to just pretend he was method acting so they didn't have to have an awkward conversation.Troutslime said:
Anyone have thoughts on why del Torros character spoke with a stutter? I'm not sure what he was trying to bring to the part by doing that.
Would have much rather have seen a good character actor or even an alien in this role.
When the smoke cleared, Luke should have been sitting in a lawn chair reading one of the ancient jedi textsDr. Teeth said:Ag Since 83 said:What would have been different for the characters if he was physically there instead of a projection? Absolutely nothing. Their connection is strong enough (and Luke is strong enough with the Force) to make the conversation essentially the same either way. That's the point of the scene.DannyDuberstein said:
And they burned it by having it be holographic. You just furthered his point.
If he had been there physically, we wouldn't get the super funny shoulder brush off gesture.
MuckRaker96 said:Im assuming he showed up drunk on the set and everyone decided to just pretend he was method acting so they didn't have to have an awkward conversation.Troutslime said:
Anyone have thoughts on why del Torros character spoke with a stutter? I'm not sure what he was trying to bring to the part by doing that.
Would have much rather have seen a good character actor or even an alien in this role.
Probably, he did buy himself a 12 pack for Christmas...
I don't know what you guys are talking about. I thought Antonio Banderas did a great job in the movie
in other words, the same method acting he brought to Guardians of the Galaxy.MuckRaker96 said:Im assuming he showed up drunk on the set and everyone decided to just pretend he was method acting so they didn't have to have an awkward conversation.Troutslime said:
Anyone have thoughts on why del Torros character spoke with a stutter? I'm not sure what he was trying to bring to the part by doing that.
Would have much rather have seen a good character actor or even an alien in this role.
DannyDuberstein said:Ag Since 83 said:What would have been different for the characters if he was physically there instead of a projection? Absolutely nothing. Their connection is strong enough (and Luke is strong enough with the Force) to make the conversation essentially the same either way. That's the point of the scene.DannyDuberstein said:
And they burned it by having it be holographic. You just furthered his point.
It kind of cheapened it. Also, the fact Luke had a dark beard and shorter hair with no explanation (yet) in the scene was a distraction. It caught my attention and i was wondering what was going on vs just taking in the scene. My mind went thru " his beard looks darker? Is it really darker or just the lighting (or lack thereof)? Wait, Yes, it is darker. Wtf would it be darker? Is his hair shorter too? I think it is. What's goojg on? Salon stop on the way to save desperate rebels?"
The hologram Luke was the younger Luke for some reason. The one who tussled with Kylo...now called Ben. He had darker, shorter hair and a trimmed beard. Yea that also didn't make any sense. And his self dusting off was absolutely ridiculous. Rian ruined this franchise.
FL_Ag1998 said:
Here's the ultimate problem with the movie... The viewers have to keep coming up with their own plausible reasoning for a lot of events in the movie happening the way they did. And I mean A LOT of events. A movie can have outrageous events in it and still be a good movie if the events make sense in the context of universe that the movie is set up.
But in this movie the outrageous events are so nonsensical and out of context for the "Star Wars universe" that the only way people can argue the writing and plot was good is to make up their own reasons (i.e. excuses) for the events.
This is a very good explanation of the main flaw of this movie.
Right. That became clear once the plot revealed he was a hologram. The two issues are (1) it just created some confusion at a key time of the story when I wouldn't think you want your audience wondering "wtf is with his hair?" and (2) I don't really understand why hologram Luke would be younger. I thought his hologram hair was even darker than it was in the flashbacks to the battle with Kylo at the academy.
Here's the thing. Good movies should challenge the audience.
After Empire, don't you think people were pissed that we didn't know who Yoda was talking about? ("There is another.")
Were people HAPPY that Luke ended up being the son of the ultimate bad guy in the galaxy?
Did people EXPECT the greatest Jedi Master in the history of the Jedi to be a green frog creature?
Was there anyone satisfied that Han Solo was frozen in carbonite and seemingly out of commission for the next movie? (Decision to bring him back came later.)
I'm sure all of those seemed completely out of left field in 1980.
I think a lot of how this trilogy will be perceived down the road, is hinging on Ep IX.
After Empire, don't you think people were pissed that we didn't know who Yoda was talking about? ("There is another.")
Were people HAPPY that Luke ended up being the son of the ultimate bad guy in the galaxy?
Did people EXPECT the greatest Jedi Master in the history of the Jedi to be a green frog creature?
Was there anyone satisfied that Han Solo was frozen in carbonite and seemingly out of commission for the next movie? (Decision to bring him back came later.)
I'm sure all of those seemed completely out of left field in 1980.
I think a lot of how this trilogy will be perceived down the road, is hinging on Ep IX.
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Here's the thing. Good movies should challenge the audience.
After Empire, don't you think people were pissed that we didn't know who Yoda was talking about? ("There is another.")
Were people HAPPY that Luke ended up being the son of the ultimate bad guy in the galaxy?
Did people EXPECT the greatest Jedi Master in the history of the Jedi to be a green frog creature?
Was there anyone satisfied that Han Solo was frozen in carbonite and seemingly out of commission for the next movie? (Decision to bring him back came later.)
I'm sure all of those seemed completely out of left field in 1980.
I think a lot of how this trilogy will be perceived down the road, is hinging on Ep IX.
Awful comparison. Everything you mentioned set up perfectly the next movie. No one seems to have any clue where the next movie is going to go.
You say that with the benefit of hindsight. We live in a world where ROTJ exists.
I can't predict the plot of Episode IX two years in advance. How terrible.
Ag Since 83 said:
I can't predict the plot of Episode IX two years in advance. How terrible.
I can see why you two liked the movie, you cant even make correct sense of people's posts.
Can anyone explain why hologram Luke was younger than actual Luke? Does anyone who liked the movie care? Shouldn't a movie of this caliber of a franchise offer us more than a turd sandwich?
I think it was 2 things: a slight nod to the audience that something about him was different, and appearing to Leia and Kylo Ren the way he looked the last time they met. Bottom line, it was a conscious choice for Luke on how he wanted to appear in the force "hologram" or whatever you want to call it.WestAustinAg said:
Can anyone explain why hologram Luke was younger than actual Luke? Does anyone who liked the movie care? Shouldn't a movie of this caliber of a franchise offer us more than a turd sandwich?
I think it was supposed to be a hint as well, although it was a bad one. What was also odd is that it was darker than Luke's hair has ever been. He looked like that friend that made an ill-conceived choice to try Just For Men and picked a bottle that was too dark
I took it, and have also read some theories that, it was more of a unconscious reaction from the force. It's not that she consciously took control and brought herself back into the ship but that it was initially a reflex action by the force to save her life.H6RBW said:Quote:
Why is everyone assuming that she hasn't taken the past 20 years since Jedi to learn how to use the Force?
Because we were never shown that, or even given one in-passing line of dialogue to set it up. And because using the Force without training actually fits with the theme of the movie, and matches what they're doing with Rey and the kid.
The flying Leia was one of the negatives for the film for me, but this theory is plausible to me in that she wasn't knowledgeable in force use, but she still had strong force inside her...
I wouldn't say I don't care about this, but it's just not something that bothered me. It was literally a fraction of a second of "oh, he looks younger, weird." I'm sure Johnson has some thematic reason, but I don't need to understand exactly what it is. That's ultimately why I think this franchise is in trouble: people care about different things and I don't think they can ever make a movie that will make everyone happyWestAustinAg said:
Can anyone explain why hologram Luke was younger than actual Luke? Does anyone who liked the movie care? Shouldn't a movie of this caliber of a franchise offer us more than a turd sandwich?
This points to something in my mind that's wrong with some in society today...FL_Ag1998 said:
Here's the ultimate problem with the movie... The viewers have to keep coming up with their own plausible reasoning for a lot of events in the movie happening the way they did. And I mean A LOT of events. A movie can have outrageous events in it and still be a good movie if the events make sense in the context of universe that the movie is set up.
But in this movie the outrageous events are so nonsensical and out of context for the "Star Wars universe" that the only way people can argue the writing and plot was good is to make up their own reasons (i.e. excuses) for the events.
Some people need every minute detail spelled out for them in a film or a book. They no longer use their imagination. If the director or writer doesn't explain everything, it's a bad movie or story. Go back to the OT, there were plenty of "outrageous events" that had never been seen before but the films didn't explain all the details. We as the viewers used our imagination to come up with theories, etc. Of course, then in the prequels Lucas chose to explain everything in excruciating detail (trade disputes, midichlorians, jedi rules an regulations, etc) so I guess that's now expected from a Star Wars film, particularly those who grew up with the prequels.
In my mind, everything that happened in TLJ fit with "...the events make sense in the context of universe that the movie is set up.".
I think that's a really good point. I thought of this a few days ago but couldn't think of the way to explain it. A lot of these questions ("why is Luke younger?" "How do the bombs work?") are open to interpretation/imagination, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Some of us have been talking about Star Wars on this board for years, and part of that is speculation about various things. I like to think we have done that because it's fun.
Some of us have been talking about Star Wars on this board for years, and part of that is speculation about various things. I like to think we have done that because it's fun.
Are the rules of the SWU set from the original film, and we then all hated Empire for expanding the rules?
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