Flashdiaz said:

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hurleyag said:

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I can't quite remember, but at the end of RO after the plans have been transmitted, don't a few of the rebel ships crash into Vader's ship while making the jump to hyperspace with out any damage to his vessel?

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no. Vaders ship comes out of hyperspace just as some ships were turning around to get ready for hyperspace

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more important, they crash against the ship and cause no damage, but in prior movies we see kamikaze ships breaking apart crash into Star Destroyers and do damage.

Filmmakers are so inconsistent.

Quinn said:

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TCTTS - do you think there will articles in the coming weeks or months about "what went wrong" in making this movie? Or perhaps articles focused on what Disney has done wrong since taking over the Franchise (RO reshoot, firing Lord and Miller, lack of a through-line for the main trilogy, firing Trevvorow, etc) Or is it still critically adored enough that we won't get an autopsy (for lack of a better term)?

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No. From a business perspective, nothing has gone "wrong." These movies are WILDLY successful, making either more than or exactly what Disney/Lucasfilm expected. That, and yes, it is critically adored enough that the only autopsy articles will be coming from fringe blogs. That said, the prominent narrative beyond the world of critics is that this is a good movie. Those who didn't like this movie are in the minority, I'm afraid.

Movie definitely pushed a new generation with olds getting knocked off left and right. I left dissappointed, but I also know I wasn't the target audience.

TCTTS said:

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Quinn said:

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TCTTS - do you think there will articles in the coming weeks or months about "what went wrong" in making this movie? Or perhaps articles focused on what Disney has done wrong since taking over the Franchise (RO reshoot, firing Lord and Miller, lack of a through-line for the main trilogy, firing Trevvorow, etc) Or is it still critically adored enough that we won't get an autopsy (for lack of a better term)?

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No. From a business perspective, nothing has gone "wrong." These movies are WILDLY successful, making either more than or exactly what Disney/Lucasfilm expected. That, and yes, it is critically adored enough that the only autopsy articles will be coming from fringe blogs. That said, the prominent narrative beyond the world of critics is that this is a good movie. Those who didn't like this movie are in the minority, I'm afraid.

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Gotcha, that makes sense. I have seen pretty much every online critic/reviewer/media person that I like say that they enjoyed the movie (which I did, too, though I get everyone's big problems with it).

I always love those behind the scenes type articles and was hoping we would get a great one for this. Maybe we will get a big, huge article after Ep IX is out.

TCTTS said:

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Trust me, I would love nothing more than a big, tell-all book about the behind the scenes drama and making of these movies, but it'll be next decade before we get anything like that.

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TCTTS said:

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Trust me, I would love nothing more than a big, tell-all book about the behind the scenes drama and making of these movies, but it'll be next decade before we get anything like that.

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Id go on Lock down if i was Disney. It's embarrassing.

SeattleAgJr said:

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Flashdiaz said:

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hurleyag said:

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I can't quite remember, but at the end of RO after the plans have been transmitted, don't a few of the rebel ships crash into Vader's ship while making the jump to hyperspace with out any damage to his vessel?

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no. Vaders ship comes out of hyperspace just as some ships were turning around to get ready for hyperspace

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more important, they crash against the ship and cause no damage, but in prior movies we see kamikaze ships breaking apart crash into Star Destroyers and do damage.

Filmmakers are so inconsistent.

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typically this happened after the shields were destroyed.
This was the case in Return of the Jedi:

INTERIOR - VADER'S STAR DESTROYER [The Executor] - BRIDGE
Admiral Piett and a commander stand at the window, looking out to the battle. They look concerned.
CONTROLLER : Sir, we've lost our bridge deflector shield.

Flashdiaz said:

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Quinn said:

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TCTTS - do you think there will articles in the coming weeks or months about "what went wrong" in making this movie? Or perhaps articles focused on what Disney has done wrong since taking over the Franchise (RO reshoot, firing Lord and Miller, lack of a through-line for the main trilogy, firing Trevvorow, etc) Or is it still critically adored enough that we won't get an autopsy (for lack of a better term)?

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I still don't get how there's not a small group of people that know where the story goes or has some sort of framework. If I had a billion dollar franchise to hold up, i'd want a bit more structure but maybe that's just me.

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I actually have to agree with this, though I've liked both movies thus far.

It's a bit crazy to me that Rian can essentially go in any direction he wants, then JJ has to basically wait and see what happens there before writing Ep IX.

What Rian is talking about doing in his trilogy is kind of what I wish they'd done with Eps VII - IX. (Write one big, epic story that is told over that trilogy.)

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Flashdiaz said:

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Quinn said:

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TCTTS - do you think there will articles in the coming weeks or months about "what went wrong" in making this movie? Or perhaps articles focused on what Disney has done wrong since taking over the Franchise (RO reshoot, firing Lord and Miller, lack of a through-line for the main trilogy, firing Trevvorow, etc) Or is it still critically adored enough that we won't get an autopsy (for lack of a better term)?

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I still don't get how there's not a small group of people that know where the story goes or has some sort of framework. If I had a billion dollar franchise to hold up, i'd want a bit more structure but maybe that's just me.

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I actually have to agree with this, though I've liked both movies thus far.

It's a bit crazy to me that Rian can essentially go in any direction he wants, then JJ has to basically wait and see what happens there before writing Ep IX.

What Rian is talking about doing in his trilogy is kind of what I wish they'd done with Eps VII - IX. (Write one big, epic story that is told over that trilogy.)

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It's definitely crazy that the trilogy wasn't/isn't more planned out than it is. It's honestly kind of shocking. But on the other hand, there's really no "waiting" on the part of the creatives. Johnson starting work on TLJ in July 2014, a year and a half before TFA even hit theaters. And Trevorrow's Episode IX script was completed early this year. The only reason Abrams got such a relatively "late" start was because they ended up scrapping Trevorrow's take. But Abrams pitched his Episode IX take to Bob Iger this past Saturday, so he's been working for quite some time now already. And they're not filming until the summer, so there's plenty of time to get it right.

Point is, it's not like the baton was handed off as each movie was completed, or that there wasn't communication/collaboration/overlap. That said, it is disconcerting how little Johnson knows about Episode IX. He's straight up admitted he has no idea what's going on there, what the plan is for Luke, etc. But I imagine he did know what Trevorrow was doing, and that they talked quite a bit. So, who knows.

Like Johnson or not, with the next trilogy at least one person (in conjunction with the story group) is overseeing / planning the entire trilogy in advance. Johnson likely isn't writing/directing the latter two, but at least there will be an outline to follow.

jolindsey said:

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I fully expect episode IX to be about the trial to court-martial Poe

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Finn and Rose too. Hell, throw BB8 in there as well. That is like 15% of the RESISTANCE forces, right?

vwbug said:

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I don't understand what is being said here.

Yep. He's pretty close with a lot of those guys.

letters at random said:

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Here's how we'll know: watch the box office. People vote with their money. This movie will get a second screening out of me.

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I bet that audience score is going to hurt the box office.

What's funny in my circle of friends ranging from super fan to social Star Wars fan, the results reflect the exit polls. Most really liked it. Even if there were parts they did not care for.

digital_ag said:

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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That's pretty good. I mean it totally betrays any semblance of intellectual integrity when it comes to assessing the two movies but it's still funny.

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edit: NM.

and not a single fan I know "liked" the movie at all. Some agree it had it's good points, but the bad/useless parts were just that..bad and useless.

I'm more or less at peace with most of the flaws. Holdo, Space Leia, OP Rey, and Luke's end are the only things that still bother me. I still think OP Rey will be explained in 9 and I've figured out what bothers me about Luke's end.

If we had known going in that Luke was creating this illusion and been with him through the terrible strain, maybe gotten some build up to what he was risking, then it all works a lot better. Instead, we thought he was really there, really framed in the cleft in the shield about to face down an army, really battling it out and doing things in real life. Blood, fire, and sweat. When Johnson drew back the curtain to reveal a twist, it felt more like he was pulling the rug out from under us and then Luke randomly died. It diminished actions that should have been incredibly heroic by making us think something even more heroic was happening. So in the end, I think the plot was fine but Johnson didn't do himself any favors when it came to depicting that sequence.

He clearly wanted to maximize the number of twists: Snoke's end, Rey's family, the lightsaber toss, Luke's end, Leia's 2-3 near misses when we all know Carrie Fisher passed, the escape plan failing, the several stories of Luke and Ren, and of course Chewie not eating the porgs. I think in Luke's case he just lost track of whether the twists would increase the audience's enjoyment of the movie.

Put me in the group that has misgivings about this film. I've seen it 4 times and while an entertaining film, I didn't think it advanced the entire saga as good as it should. I'm a big SW fan, will always be a big SW fan, and this movie alone can't destroy how I feel about the saga. To steal a line, TLJ just gave me a bad feeling about this.

The movie is definitely making me work harder to like it than I planned. Let me give an example....

One of the things that gave me pause was Luke and his desire to kill his nephew. I get the hermit/curmudgeon/elderly crisis thing he's turned into, but why a killer? What motivated him to want to kill Ben? That's straight up dark side right there. And that's what cleared it up for me.

Going back to the duel in ROTJ, Luke doesn't want to kill his father, he want's to save him. I'm sure Luke, when first seeing Ben's darkness, felt the same thing. Only after Vader directly threatens Leia, does Luke violently swing to the dark. I even can see similarities in Luke's lightsaber and facial expressions when comparing the two scenes (standing over Ben vs. repeatedly striking Vader while he's off his feet). In TLJ, we only hear subtle clues as to Ben's darkness.

This is where I think the movie needed a little more to ram home the darkness that Luke felt. For instance, maybe a couple of verbal "Ben! NO!!!" from Han or Leia as they are being hurt. Something that is a direct threat to something held dear by Luke. If something like that was in TLJ and I missed it, feel free to correct.

In ROTJ, after Vader's hand is lost, there is the visual of Luke's charred mechanical hand that gives him pause before he becomes just as evil as dear ol' dad. I think Rian tried to give us a similar visual with Luke holding his unlit lightsaber over Ben, but it didn't ring the same. (Was it a glove of mechanical hand? Guess I have to go back and see it again unless you guys can remind me.) A simple Vader's breath here could have made this a complete connection and made a key moment so much more powerful, and believable.

As has been pointed out quite a bit on this thread, there are just little things like this that could have gave this movie a greater connection/feeling to the previous films, but at the same time allowed it to go in a different direction.