*** SW: The Last Jedi - FULL SPOILERS BE IN HERE ***

316,782 Views | 3129 Replies | Last: 2 mo ago by Definitely Not A Cop
aggiephoenix02
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Champ Bailey said:

Here is what I don't get. So the rebels and the First Order are buying spacecraft from the same people. Why don't they both fly X-Wings or TIE's?
Because they have different military philosophies. The Rebel/Resistance need fighters that can make light speed jumps so they can employ hit and run, gorilla style tactics. The Imperial Navy/First Order have giant carriers that hold small fighters that defend the larger ships, and enforce policy on a planet.

In short, they have different needs...
Velvet Jones
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AG
Quote:

gorilla style tactics

That's gonna smart...
aggiephoenix02
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There are small Imperial fighters that can make light speed jumps like Vader's Advanced Tie, or Long Distance Tie Interceptors, but those are few and far between mainly used by Imperial Special Forces for top secret missions and such. 99% of their Tie fighters have no light speed capabilities...
aggiephoenix02
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MiniShrike said:

Quote:

gorilla style tactics

That's gonna smart...
I meant guerrilla tactics... HaHa
InternetFan02
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AG
Has it been confirmed is the new resistance ring a reference to Spaceballs and will the Force kid use his ring as a light saber in IX?

Also I believe I heard yoda yelling as the book cave was burning "the force is in You, Luke...It's in Youuuu". I need to watch a 2nd time to be sure
Velvet Jones
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aggiephoenix02 said:

MiniShrike said:

Quote:

gorilla style tactics

That's gonna smart...
I meant guerrilla tactics... HaHa
I know. Was just reminded of the guy at ESPN earlier this year.
Velvet Jones
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AG
aggiephoenix02 said:

Champ Bailey said:

Here is what I don't get. So the rebels and the First Order are buying spacecraft from the same people. Why don't they both fly X-Wings or TIE's?
Because they have different military philosophies. The Rebel/Resistance need fighters that can make light speed jumps so they can employ hit and run, gorilla style tactics. The Imperial Navy/First Order have giant carriers that hold small fighters that defend the larger ships, and enforce policy on a planet.

In short, they have different needs...
That's a solid explanation btw.
Farmer1906
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aggiephoenix02 said:

Champ Bailey said:

Here is what I don't get. So the rebels and the First Order are buying spacecraft from the same people. Why don't they both fly X-Wings or TIE's?
Because they have different military philosophies. The Rebel/Resistance need fighters that can make light speed jumps so they can employ hit and run, gorilla style tactics. The Imperial Navy/First Order have giant carriers that hold small fighters that defend the larger ships, and enforce policy on a planet.

In short, they have different needs...


Ties are suicide craft. No shields. First order / empire doesn't care about their soldiers. They seem to have unlimited quantities. Rebels need to keep everyone they can.
aggiephoenix02
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Farmer1906 said:

aggiephoenix02 said:

Champ Bailey said:

Here is what I don't get. So the rebels and the First Order are buying spacecraft from the same people. Why don't they both fly X-Wings or TIE's?
Because they have different military philosophies. The Rebel/Resistance need fighters that can make light speed jumps so they can employ hit and run, gorilla style tactics. The Imperial Navy/First Order have giant carriers that hold small fighters that defend the larger ships, and enforce policy on a planet.

In short, they have different needs...


Ties are suicide craft. No shields. First order / empire doesn't care about their soldiers. They seem to have unlimited quantities. Rebels need to keep everyone they can.
This was 100% true for the Imperial Navy, but the First Order has had a minor change of heart. They now value their pilots and Ties more seeing as how they aren't as large as the Empire and do have to value all their fighters, ships, everything. That's why they have so many Special Forces Ties with extra armor, a gunner, more weapons on the Tie, etc. (the Special Forces Tie was the one Poe and Finn stole, which was why they could fit two people inside of it, a pilot and a gunner).
Brian Earl Spilner
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Both posts above. Solid.
Yoda
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Honestly, my true feeling walking out of the theater was one of frustration. I wanted to love this film, obviously. Had very high expectations and fully anticipated it being great, particularly after the reviews. However, despite enjoying numerous scenes, the misses and WTH moments just kept adding up to the point where I found myself thinking as I watched, "OK, now I'm frustrated."

I'm a pretty forgiving watcher. For context, I may be the only person on Earth who actually liked flying Leia. My brain was saying, "This is kinda weird, maybe even silly" but once her theme music kicked in I found myself giving it a huge pass as I simply allowed myself to enjoy the notion that in the past 30 years she had learned to harness her power and do the remarkable. Would even help to more deeply explain her devoted following and revered status within the Rebellion.

Here are the things I am having trouble getting over (most have been said by many others):
  • Finn trying to bail again to start the movie. Really? I'm supposed to care about this guy, right?
  • As pretty much everyone else has said, the entire Rose & Finn subplot. Served zero purpose. I can't think of a single thing their actions did that mattered. Forgivable if entertaining, but their high jinx were the weakest parts of the film by far.
  • Benicio's codebreaker character. Just plain annoying. His verbal-tick shtick got old fast. Was he the person they were actually sent to find, despite not having the flower on his lapel? If so, they did a terrible job of making it clear. If not, well, that is even worse.
  • The casino planet. Everything about it was bad. CGI everywhere. Goofy attempts at animated alien humor falling flat (felt like the worst of The Special Editions). The "race horses" with Finn & Rose riding off... to where? Why?
  • Laura Dern, here's an idea. Just tell Poe and the others what you are planning. But hey, who doesn't love a condescending leader who expects everyone to just shut up and trust you despite all evidence saying otherwise.
  • Snoke. I actually liked how they offed him. Unique and gutsy. Just would have been nice to know anything about him. Who he was? How did he gain power? Why did he look like that? Why did the galaxy follow him? Was it fear? Security? Other?

Most unforgivable is Luke. I am a child of the 80's. I get that this new trilogy is about the next generation and not our original heroes. No problem. Yet, didn't we all want to see Luke come through for us one more time? To be the badass the galaxy needed, and our new heroes needed, at their most desperate hour? I understand the way the film played out, he was indeed that... from a certain point of view. I don't love the mass Jedi mindtrick idea, but I think with time I can warm up to it. There's something very disconnected about the whole concept. I wanted flesh and blood Luke to be part of the struggle, but ok. It's the death that I can't get over. Why? He's just tired? Had nothing left to give? Runs in the family (Padme)? A cross-galaxy giant mindtrick like none other drains all lifeforce? I just thought he deserved better. Frankly, we the fans deserved better. If it wasn't going to be in a blaze of glory, shouldn't he of at least been surrounded by friends? How about just one? Alone, disconnected from those he loved and had been separated from for so long, it's just not how we wanted him to go out.

I hope to enjoy the film more with time. I really do. Maybe repeat viewings will allow me to enjoy the good without being pulled out by the negatives. Maybe the only way that could happen for me is if Luke still has a role to play in IX. Something that matters, and not just as a ghost. Just don't see that happening.
aggiephoenix02
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Finn wasn't bailing as much as he was simply trying to save his friend Rey. I believe that was his only motivation. And as for him 'deserting' the Resistance, he wasn't even officially part of that army. He had been in a coma since the attack on Star Killer Base were he was just a deserted First Order Trooper helping the Resistance (and even then, he tells Han he isn't in it for the Resistance, he's just there to save his friend Rey)...
VanZandt92
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M.C. Swag said:

+ Emperor guards fight scene
+ Daisy Ridley is fantastic

- The ENTIRE master code breaker side plot was 100% useless. It literally served no purpose. Like, just make the movie 30 min less in length.

- Finn accomplished nothing in the entire movie (other than saving some horses). His role had 0 impact to the plot.

- So now all the rebels need to do to defeat the First order is light speed kamikaze through their fleet? Kewl plot hole Disney. I hope that sweet visual shot was worth shredding all that conflict.

- Wtf didn't commander purple hair tell Poe about her plan? He freaking mutinied and it all made no sense.

- The 2 most intriguing aspects of the new Star Wars films were: 1) Rey's parentage and 2) Snokes backstory. The movie just took a dump on both.

- I STILL dont understand why Ben hated his father.

- Leia just suddenly became a force wielding witch capable of resurrecting herself and creating a breathing apparatus in space. Kewl.

- This movie took a dump on space. Idk what galaxy they're in, but in my galaxy, when you open a door from a pressurized cabin to a vacuum, bad things happen. This movie did it at least twice with no consequences. (And that's before I mention the physics of "dropping" bombs in space)

- The millenium falcon is indestructible. The first order needs to capture it and study it's engineering for replication on their own paper machete crafts.

- Literally the only time Luke touched a light saber was to toss it over his shoulder.

- milking Aliens

- So they kill off Harrison Ford and Mark Hamil but decide to keep Carrie Fisher around? Sense, this director makes none.

- Rose was some pipe engineer and then could pilot stuff because....reasons.

The biggest minus of all;

- RIan Johnson is directing more of these. (Insert Darth Vader "Noooooooooooo!" Gif)
Up





Lots of good points here, but the Snoke praetorian guards looked silly like a martial arts movie.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Quote:

For context, I may be the only person on Earth who actually liked flying Leia. My brain was saying, "This is kinda weird, maybe even silly" but once her theme music kicked in I found myself giving it a huge pass as I simply allowed myself to enjoy the notion that in the past 30 years she had learned to harness her power and do the remarkable. Would even help to more deeply explain her devoted following and revered status within the Rebellion.


That's interesting, I didn't take it that way. I sort of assumed this was the first time she was able to display such "overt" force power, maybe due to the fact that she was on the verge of death.

Almost like a force version of extreme adrenaline in a life or death situation, that sort of thing.
Latrobe
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Might have already been stated...but I'll make sure I state it here so I can dig it back up when it happens:

I was really disappointed in the "Rey's parents are nobody" reveal. But then I go to thinking about it. They are setting us up for a huge bomb in IX. They couldn't reveal it in this one,.......because every angle had been speculated/discussed already. Finding out that Rey and Kylo are brother/sister would have essentially zero "wow" factor. They had to mis-direct.

But think about finding that out in IX, now that we have moved on and accepted the current story line about her parents. Sort of like finding out Vader is Luke's father. We had accepted that Luke's father was dead, and Vader killed him. Then BAM.
SeattleAgJr
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except leia and han would have commented on their lost daughter (fi that is what you are implying). that would be too late of a story bomb to drop.
Cromagnum
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This one was a bit meh for me and the wife. It was about on par with RotS.
aggiephoenix02
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Cromagnum said:

This one was a bit meh for me and the wife. It was about on par with RotS.
ROTS is underrated in my opinion. To be honest, I liked ALL of the prequels, but ROTS is way above the other two, and is good enough to be on par with the rest of the StarWars canon. It's as good as ROTJ, or TFA, so yes, TLJ is on par with ROTS, because they are both excellent movies...
aggiephoenix02
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SeattleAgJr said:

except leia and han would have commented on their lost daughter (fi that is what you are implying). that would be too late of a story bomb to drop.
Yep.

Why do people want her to have special parents? Rey is special enough in her own right, and that's the point. She is an amazing person without needing to be royalty or a Senator's daughter or have Jedi blood...
Belton Ag
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Cave Johnson, CEO said:

I don't think the bombs were "gravity" based, it looked like they were all lined up in a track which could have just worked like a mechanical conveyor belt that moved them downwards. All you needed was something to get them moving and that's it, I don't think it's such a reach to assume that's what was done.
I just don't get the problem with this; it keeps getting brought up. This franchise has been playing fast and loose with the laws of physics in space since 1977 and all of the sudden people are getting worked up about these bombs.
Latrobe
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My thoughts on the Movie:

Some really cool scenes. I have tickets to go again on Tuesday and the only reason I am thinking about going is to see the light speed missile scene again. But I am dreading sitting through any scene with Finn.....since his role was pointless in this movie. But Maybe I'll pick up on something I missed the first time........

Overall, we had Rey grow up a little, we had some development of character with Kylo, and Luke came back and decided to help out.

These were the big developments. All of these took place during a low speed police chase........

If this was a Netflix series, I would be ok with it and stick around and watch the next one......because I'm pretty sure there is gonna be a big pay-off with Rey and Kylo and possibly a new Sith Lord or something.

But I waited two years for this movie and now have to wait two more years for the next. I kind of wanted to love THIS movie....all by itself. Once they all come out, I think this will be a great movie that is telling a part of the big story. But as it is......for me, this movie doesn't really stand alone as great.
twilly
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Maybe somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but did anybody say they had a "bad feeling about this?"
Cromagnum
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Too many hamfisted jokes that missed entirely.
Why have Snoke at all to just kill him already?
Disappointed about Rey's backstory.
Casino substory was dumb.
Kylo is most interesting character so far
aggiephoenix02
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Belton Ag said:

Cave Johnson, CEO said:

I don't think the bombs were "gravity" based, it looked like they were all lined up in a track which could have just worked like a mechanical conveyor belt that moved them downwards. All you needed was something to get them moving and that's it, I don't think it's such a reach to assume that's what was done.
I just don't get the problem with this; it keeps getting brought up. This franchise has been playing fast and loose with the laws of physics in space since 1977 and all of the sudden people are getting worked up about these bombs.
Nah dude, laser swords and moving things with your mind and explosions in space having sound is one thing, but you have to draw the line at space bombs...
Ag Since 83
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Cromagnum said:

Too many hamfisted jokes that missed entirely.
Why have Snoke at all to just kill him already?
Disappointed about Rey's backstory.
Casino substory was dumb.
Kylo is most interesting character so far
Snoke existed for one reason and one reason only: Kylo Ren's development as the big bad
TCTTS
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Bingo. Probably my favorite plot development/surprise of the whole movie, and made me even retroactively like/forgive TFA more.
DannyDuberstein
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One big step forward for the new trilogy was that they appear to have successfully ditched Emo Kylo. Shortened his hair a bit so he doesn't look like a shampoo commercial and more vicious vs whiney B.
aggiephoenix02
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twilly said:

Maybe somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but did anybody say they had a "bad feeling about this?"
YES! I was worried about that since I missed it too!

I had a few tabs of acid that I was going to take when someone said that line (it's kinda like a drinking game), but I missed it the first time and had to look it up online after the fact.

BB8 says it as Poe is going to attack the dreadnought in the opening battle...
bangobango
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I have been thinking hard about what it is that really just pisses me off about this movie.

Unlike a lot of the criticisms I have read, I found the funny parts funny, I didn't mind the casino side plot, I do not like the Rose character, but I enjoyed Benicio's character a lot and hope he comes back in the third installment. Thought the Leai superwoman bit was dumb, but got over it quick.

I think, ultimately, the reason this movie pisses me off so much is Luke's portrayal. The blew it, and they can never make it better, and I think they seriously underestimated how personal a lot of people would take it.

I get you want to move the universe past those characters. I understand that and I am actually okay with that. But if that's the case, and you are going to treat a character like Luke so poorly, and just completely destroy the entire fabric of what makes him what he is to so many fans, then just keep them out of the movies all-together.

Just start the movies a couple hundred years after TLJ and have Luke and Han and Leia be nothing more than legends whispered about in stories. I would much rather you do that than bring them back just to carelessly kill them off.
M.C. Swag
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TCTTS said:

Bingo. Probably my favorite plot development/surprise of the whole movie, and made me even retroactively like/forgive TFA more.
I don't understand this. Correct me if I'm wrong but your primary point of contention with Snoke was his overall similarity to Palpatine right?

So how does just writing him off wash your feelings from the previous movie? At this point I feel like all it did was confuse people. Like, there wasn't even the slightest bit of curiosity on your part about who this guy was? How he became so powerful with the force? what made him seek out Kylo in the first place? He had to have been around during the OT, so who/what/where was he?!

I mean, i don't know how you could feel anything other than cheapened at his sudden death. It just felt...pointless. Even if you can accept his 'primary' role was to train Kylo, I can't disagree more. His role FELT like it was much deeper than that.

In all honesty, I feel like TLJ was written without much consideration as to what happened in TFA. They just took the same characters and used them in whatever way they saw fit. I just can't help but feel like they wrote 'snoke' with 0 clue what they were going to do with him....so they just didn't even try.
M.C. Swag
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Quote:

I think, ultimately, the reason this movie pisses me off so much is Luke's portrayal. The blew it, and they can never make it better, and I think they seriously underestimated how personal a lot of people would take it.
Agreed. OT Luke would never consider killing an innocent. Even if they posed a threat. Luke's defining characteristic was looking for the BEST in people, not the worst.
Farmer1906
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Same question for The emperor.

Like, there wasn't even the slightest bit of curiosity on your part about who this guy was? How he became so powerful with the force? what made him seek out Vader in the first place? He had to have been around during ANH, so who/what/where was he?!
Belton Ag
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I wonder if this had been the plan for Snoke all along or if Johnson convinced Lucasfilm to kill him off in order to advance Kyle Ren's character.

I also wonder if Johnson changed up Rey's backstory/origin (assuming Kylo was telling the truth).
bangobango
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The other thing about this movie, does it not kind of seem like a huge lecture about how stupid "boys" are?

I mean, you have Poe getting taught a lesson by Leia and Holdo.
Finn getting taught a lesson by Rose.
Luke getting taught a lesson by Rey.

And every single lesson is punctuated by the woman shooting, stunning, crashing into, or beating the guy in hand to hand combat.

I know, I know, "politics." Eye roll and all that. If you have a daughter or you are a girl, then this stuff probably seems ridiculous to you. But if you are raising boys right now and they spend anytime watching Disney cartoons, then you probably know there is a happy medium somewhere in there and this is not it.
VanZandt92
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I can't be the only one who, when they saw Snoke, thought, "This guy is basically like the emperor and will die soon. He is a spare character." ?

Sorry for bad punctuation
 
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