quote:

---

but again, thru means that put him and his family in danger. he had opportunities to accept help from others and he didn't take them.

let's be clear...he LIKES being the bad guy. he likes having power. and he doesn't seem to really care if that puts his family in danger. I mean, he'd say he doesn't like that, but not enough to give up the power. so he's long past the point of being able to claim he's just trying to protect his family, as far as I'm concerned.

---

But him "liking" the power is him "breaking bad". That's what the show is about. It's not so much "what a good man does in desperation" as much as it is "what turns a good man into a villain".

And as for getting out without harm, what parts are you talking about? I seem to remember his not wanting to take the deal with Gus because he was trying to get out to be with his family, but then having to so that he could get protection from Tuco's assassin cousins from Gus.

i don't like walt because of his survival instinct

i like walt because he's an amazing narcissist and a unbelievable super-genius

he's basically lex luthor at this point

quote:

---

I seem to remember his not wanting to take the deal with Gus because he was trying to get out to be with his family, but then having to so that he could get protection from Tuco's assassin cousins from Gus.

---

he did it because he was upset about jesse cooking with HIS recipe. also, after tuco died, they had an opportunity to get out. he did not. generally, every time walt has had a chance to get out, it's his pride and his wanting to show people how smart he is that has dug himself even deeper.

notice that rarely have his actions been to extract himself from the drug trade. they've always been to survive, due to the circumstances he's put himself in. and when he gets safe, he always digs in deeper.

look, I'm not saying it'd be easy to get out, but if he REALLY had wanted to get out at any number of times, he could have. but he likes it too much. which is fine, but don't try to hide it behind the notion that he's just doing it for his family.

I liked the "2 face" scene. It got a reaction out of all the viewers and think that's what the writers were shooting for - good or bad. Ya can't please everyone.

*********************************************************************************************************************
"Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."



Claude os, aperi oculos!

People like him because he's an underdog. He's the hen-pecked, cancer-stricken, family-supporting nerd that was picked on & walked all over his whole life for being a wuss and is finally one-upping the bullies. That's why a lot of people root for him. There's nothing like a good old-fashioned underdog story.

Of course, he's slowly taking it too far with each episode. And one by one, we are all starting to look at him as the bully instead of the underdog...and that's the point.

It's like "Rudy". Or, at least it would be if Rudy had taken out a gun and started shooting innocent people at the end of the game.

^ Taint nailed it

yeah, I can understand how we started liking him, for many of the reasons that have been stated. but at some point, his actions tipped. for me, it was somewhere around season 2. I watch the show not to root for him, but rather because it's such a great character study.

but then again, I never really rooted for tony soprano, vic mackey and many of the other anti-hero protagonists. at some point, you're just a bad dude, no matter how you try to justify it.

I like Don Draper but loathe Walt.

Is there something wrong with me?

Walt isn't necessarily a likable character, but he is still empathetic. As taint said, it's hard not to root for an underdog, especially an underdog who wins with a strategic genius.
Obviously, he's slowly becoming less empathetic and less of an underdog. At some point, I assume he will become too ruthless and powerful to root for. But even in 4.13, I found it hard not to want him to succeed, just once.

I would agree with you if he was playing with chess pieces. but those chess pieces are real people, young, old, family, etc.

I think a lot of people are just considering the result of his actions when weighing the "badness" of the choice. Brock didn't die, he only went to the PICU, so no big deal, etc. Had Brock actually died, I assume Walt would have been lost to everyone. But the choice was still the exact same. The only difference was the result, which was completely out of Walt's control.

quote:

---

At some point, I assume he will become too ruthless and powerful to root for.

---

i want walt to build up enough bank to buy gray matter

and then use their facilities in order to make enough blue meth with which to poison metropolis's water supply

unless, of course, walt is made president of the united states

[This message has been edited by SuperDave03 (edited 10/11/2011 1:20p).]

i have no problem rooting for a fictional bad guy like walter white or tony soprano or vic mackey. but i do it fully knowing they are evil, and not with some weak moral justification like sharkenleo with his silly "but, no, walt isnt bad because everything he did was to protect his family" garbage.

quote:

---

The only difference was the result, which was completely out of Walt's control.

---

dude makes pipe bombs out of walkie talkies and cold packs

i'm sure he calculated the lethal dosage for a kid like Brock and scaled it back

I want to think you are being sarcastic, but the delusion tends to run pretty strong around here sometimes that it's hard to tell.

Btw, this thread is a somewhat interesting re-read post-season.

http://texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?forum_id=13&topic_id=1866346

[This message has been edited by 20ag07 (edited 10/11/2011 1:27p).]

are you saying that Walt isn't smart enough to come up with a ED99 dosage and then check the Certain Safety Factor to make sure he has enough margin?

whatever man

heres my retarded question of the day:

Whats up with Walt's cancer anymore? After the scenes of him hitting the paper towel dispenser at the news he was getting better a while back to the scene where he was sitting in the doctors office getting treatment this season, there hasnt been much mention on if his illness will come back into play.

Perhaps ive just been sidetracked with everything else going on....

I'm saying there's got to be a ridiculously narrow margin of error that lands a kid in the NICU where they don't know WTF is wrong with him but has a 0% chance of killing him. Anything >0% = not in any way morally justifiable. And even that still relies on the argument that sending a kid to the NICU is somehow morally justfiable as long as he doesn't die.

And that still ignores the neighbor, in which no science, only chance, is involved. But I guess since we didn't know the neighbor, and she also didn't actually die, it doesn't matter.

[This message has been edited by 20ag07 (edited 10/11/2011 1:37p).]

quote:

---

Whats up with Walt's cancer anymore? After the scenes of him hitting the paper towel dispenser at the news he was getting better a while back to the scene where he was sitting in the doctors office getting treatment this season, there hasnt been much mention on if his illness will come back into play.

---

could be wrong, but I think he's fully in remission.

quote:

---

I'm saying there's got to be a ridiculously narrow margin of error that lands a kid in the NICU where they don't know WTF is wrong with him but has a 0% chance of killing him.

---

all depends on the Certain Safety Factor

i'm sure Walt worked that all out while he was spinning the gun

Anyone who thinks Walt knew for certain Brock wouldn't die clearly missed Walts reaction after Jesse left on the top of the parking garage after telling him Brock would be okay.

Walt says he's in remission.

But we didn't hear from the doctor. He's still coughing.

I'm thinking that it's back and he knows it.

I don't even know what's being argued anymore.

The point of the show is to trace the origin of Walt's villainy. Of course, he is in the process of becoming an evil, megalomaniac sociopath. Each decision takes him further along that line. But he is still in the process of becoming a true villain.

Even if Walt is rationalizing it to himself that he's in it for his family (i.e., trying to save Hank even though Hank's on his ass, trying to abscond with the family through Sal's source until he finds out the money is gone), he is still redeemable. At least we hope.

So you ask why people root for Walt. I think it's two fold. The easy answer is that (1) the story is being told from his point of view, so we are naturally inclined to root for him against outside sources. The trickier answer is that (2) the story isn't finished yet.

Look even a week ago. You had people in this very thread 100% convinced that Walk would not poison a child. That's because people watching this show want to root for Walt because he started out as a good man in dire straits. People don't want to believe that his transformation is complete; they want to believe that there is some redemption there for him.

That's also why the series is called "Breaking Bad" and not "Broke Bad". The transformation --the "breaking"-- is the story.

Walt has gone from watching a woman die to arranging the murder of Gale to poisoning a child. Had talks with AMC broken down last year, the series could have ended Sunday night with Walter completing his transformation from good guy to bad guy. But it wasn't until he poisoned the kid that people finally started to realize how far he'd go.

And don't forget that Walter tried one last thing to do the "right thing" even if he was put in the position by his own doing. He tried to get away clean with his family and to warn Hank, but his wife spent the money he needed. At that point, in Walt's mind, he was out of options. It was either die or survive.

So he spun the gun and on the 3rd time, it landed on the plant.

Has Walt completed his transformation? Bryan Cranston said on the DP Show that Walter White is no longer redeemable. Seeing what he did to Brock, it's not wonder why. So I think the last season will be about Walt getting his comeuppance. Either via Hank or Jesse and the cancer, he will get his. And people will probably still cheer for Walt because Breaking Bad is his story, and when Walt succeeds and gets out of jams, we get to enjoy the ride because of our vantage point.

It wouldn't make much of a show if Mike just rolled up and shot Walt in the head while he was sleeping.

Walt had a chance to come clean, and it never entered his mind.

quote:

---

Anyone who thinks Walt knew for certain Brock wouldn't die clearly missed Walts reaction after Jesse left on the top of the parking garage after telling him Brock would be okay.

---

as Sepinwall pointed out, Heisenberg is a brilliant actor.

how do you guys think he got the kid to eat the berries?
i'm thinking he baked a pie. because who can resist a fresh baked pie?

quote:

---

as Sepinwall pointed out, Heisenberg is a brilliant actor.

---

Who was he acting for? The reaction was after Jesse left and Walt was by himself. hth

[This message has been edited by hereto (edited 10/11/2011 2:15p).]

quote:

---

how do you guys think he got the kid to eat the berries?
i'm thinking he baked a pie. because who can resist a fresh baked pie?

---

oh come on now, any time an older man comes by asking you to eat some berries, you eat them.

quote:

---

Who was he acting for?

---

You must have forgotten Walt putting Jesse's gun to his head and Walt explaining the logic of Gus poisoning the little mijo and using kids to get his way.

^Huh? What are you talking about? Sure Walt was acting there. But that has nothing to do with Walt nearly breaking down alone on the top of the parking garage after Jesse told him Brock would be okay. That wasn't acting, there was no one there for him to act for. That was his real reaction. He was alone.

[This message has been edited by hereto (edited 10/11/2011 2:31p).]

Bojangles, go back and read what I said. I never said Walt is a "good guy", you'd be hard pressed to make that argument anymore. I'm justifying why I still root for and empathize with walt (most of the time).

At the end of the day, my opinion is just that. I'm not any more wrong than anyone else who watches the show.

quote:

---

Bryan Cranston said on the DP Show that Walter White is no longer redeemable.

---

What show is this? Got a link to the interview?

Nevermind, got it.
http://www.danpatrick.com/2011/10/04/bryan-cranston-talks-about-breaking-bad-potential-role-for-dan/

[This message has been edited by sharkenleo (edited 10/11/2011 2:59p).]

Um why was Walt waiting at the airport before finding out Gus was dead?

Was he just gonna jet away and leave his family behind if the bomb didn't work as planned?

Because he had a new rental car?

quote:

---

The reaction was after Jesse left and Walt was by himself. hth

---

the reaction was when Jessie was standing right in front of Walt. hth