VanZandt92 said:

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Beat40 said:

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I feel like you are one of the few who have the opinion that TLJ rehashes an OT film.

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Luke is bitter and in hiding like Obi Wan. There's a start.

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Wrong. Obi wan is not bitter. Not one bit. Dejected and thoughtful but there is nowhere near the anger in him you see in Luke in TLJ.

My biggest problem with TLJ was that instead of giving the fans a nugget or two here and there, especially in regards to Luke who we not only waited 30 years to see again but also waited through TFA to see again on screen we got 1) green milk (a *******ization of blue milk from ANH)
2) Luke tossing the lightsaber away
3) Luke not actually dueling because he was a projection
4) angry emo Luke with minimal context as to why he went from perpetually optimistic to emo
5) Luke willing to consider murdering a teenage boy
6) Luke with 0 balls emasculated so that Rey the woman can be the hero

All 6 of these things are the complete opposite of the Luke character. And yeah this movie is 30 years after ROTJ

but everyone watching TLJ knows Luke's story arch from the OT. And the Luke in TLJ is a completely different person. You can't do a complete 180 on the character with no context into how that 180 happened and expect an audience to like it or even believe it.

Furthermore like with the blue milk/nasty green milk and lightsaber examples there were multiple instances where Rian Johnson took a trope from the OT, *******ized it and appeared to use it to thumb his nose at the fans.

Okay. I get it. He wanted to make his own movie and not a homage to ESB. Fine. But there were still things that he could have done to satisfy the die hard fans, the ones who spent two decades reading the EU materials and wanting to see a fully powered Luke do some serious damage with either a lightsaber or the force.

There were some interesting characters from the EU we could have seen-Mara jade, talon Karrde, thrawn, daala.....

We got no context for any of the backstory alluded to in TFA. Rey's parentage was downplayed as if the two dozen Easter eggs in TFA had never been dropped. Luke went to great lengths to create a puzzle map that the entire plot of TFA REVOLVED AROUND and TLJ was written to say...yeah that entire plot? Not so important because we are going to cut Luke's balls off in this movie without so much as a why. So all that energy and emotional investment as an audience u put into that plot line? Yeah. That was for nothing. Too bad. Suck it. And like it. Also, we are going to add an entire secondary plot to THIS movie which will fail to further develop any characters or move the plot of the movie forward. It will just give us an excuse to pontificate on SJW type issues.

Sooooo yeah. Rian Johnson pretty much spent his movie using the platform to thumb his nose at the OT fans and flip the bird to those of us who enjoyed TFA and wanted to see how those plots tied into the mythos. All while taking 2.5 hours to not only kill but tarnish and destroy on a moral level one of the purest childhood superheroes we grew up with.

So that is why TLJ sucked.

Ags4DaWin said:

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VanZandt92 said:

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Beat40 said:

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I feel like you are one of the few who have the opinion that TLJ rehashes an OT film.

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Luke is bitter and in hiding like Obi Wan. There's a start.

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Wrong. Obi wan is not bitter. Not one bit. Dejected and thoughtful but there is nowhere near the anger in him you see in Luke in TLJ.

My biggest problem with TLJ was that instead of giving the fans a nugget or two here and there, especially in regards to Luke who we not only waited 30 years to see again but also waited through TFA to see again on screen we got 1) green milk (a *******ization of blue milk from ANH)
2) Luke tossing the lightsaber away
3) Luke not actually dueling because he was a projection
4) angry emo Luke with minimal context as to why he went from perpetually optimistic to emo
5) Luke willing to consider murdering a teenage boy
6) Luke with 0 balls emasculated so that Rey the woman can be the hero

All 6 of these things are the complete opposite of the Luke character. And yeah this movie is 30 years after ROTJ

but everyone watching TLJ knows Luke's story arch from the OT. And the Luke in TLJ is a completely different person. You can't do a complete 180 on the character with no context into how that 180 happened and expect an audience to like it or even believe it.

Furthermore like with the blue milk/nasty green milk and lightsaber examples there were multiple instances where Rian Johnson took a trope from the OT, *******ized it and appeared to use it to thumb his nose at the fans.

Okay. I get it. He wanted to make his own movie and not a homage to ESB. Fine. But there were still things that he could have done to satisfy the die hard fans, the ones who spent two decades reading the EU materials and wanting to see a fully powered Luke do some serious damage with either a lightsaber or the force.

There were some interesting characters from the EU we could have seen-Mara jade, talon Karrde, thrawn, daala.....

We got no context for any of the backstory alluded to in TFA. Rey's parentage was downplayed as if the two dozen Easter eggs in TFA had never been dropped. Luke went to great lengths to create a puzzle map that the entire plot of TFA REVOLVED AROUND and TLJ was written to say...yeah that entire plot? Not so important because we are going to cut Luke's balls off in this movie without so much as a why. So all that energy and emotional investment as an audience u put into that plot line? Yeah. That was for nothing. Too bad. Suck it. And like it. Also, we are going to add an entire secondary plot to THIS movie which will fail to further develop any characters or move the plot of the movie forward. It will just give us an excuse to pontificate on SJW type issues.

Sooooo yeah. Rian Johnson pretty much spent his movie using the platform to thumb his nose at the OT fans and flip the bird to those of us who enjoyed TFA and wanted to see how those plots tied into the mythos. All while taking 2.5 hours to not only kill but tarnish and destroy on a moral level one of the purest childhood superheroes we grew up with.

So that is why TLJ sucked.

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I can't blue star this enough. All the other problems I had with the Movie would have been forgivable if they would have not taken a steaming dump all over Luke and the OT.

They should have ended ROTJ with a caption that read "and their lives are going to complete dog manure in 30 years and everything they accomplished in these movie will mean nothing"

I wish they would have started a movie centuries later and never tried to fold in the OT characters.

Flashdiaz said:

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Living Legend said:

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Sex Panther said:

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Rose was easily the worst thing about the new movies so far

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Agreed. Did not think her story line added much value to the movie

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she saved Finn's life dummy.

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Finn should've died.

He didn't leave it 'wide open', he shut off the story in so many ****ty ways that no one CARES.

Luke is gone
Carrie Fisher is dead
Solo is gone
Finn is such an annoying turncoat he's worse than jar jar
Rose might even be worse
Poe was neutered but left in charge by default
It's clear no one in the whole galaxy cares about the rebellion
Maz and chromedome turned out to just be embarrassing doll sales ploys
Snokes never mattered except to cue the light saber fight
Hux was so ridiculously stupid, I guess he's dead anyway
Adam drivers character is just an immature wus who sometimes seems powerful and sometimes doesn't
Rey just has everything easy
R2 is so disgusted with this movie he's just sitting in the corner
3po is just there for an occasional lame effort to force a laugh every now and then
It's pretty hard to follow chuy's dialogue, alone
The biggest actor in the new series came and went with barely a stutter

It all sucked, so who gives a **** anymore? Who or what is there to care about? Honestly it seems like the best plan is to just go sell weapons and rock out.

Flashdiaz said:

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they really do need to show why the FO is bad for anyone else other than the resistance... all they've shown is their willingness to destroy terrorist organizations and those villages\bars that support them.

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Did they not blow up 3 planets in TFA?

cbr said:

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He didn't leave it 'wide open', he shut off the story in so many ****ty ways that no one CARES.

Luke is gone
Carrie Fisher is dead
Solo is gone
Finn is such an annoying turncoat he's worse than jar jar
Rose might even be worse
Poe was neutered but left in charge by default
It's clear no one in the whole galaxy cares about the rebellion
Maz and chromedome turned out to just be embarrassing doll sales ploys
Snokes never mattered except to cue the light saber fight
Hux was so ridiculously stupid, I guess he's dead anyway
Adam drivers character is just an immature wus who sometimes seems powerful and sometimes doesn't
Rey just has everything easy
R2 is so disgusted with this movie he's just sitting in the corner
3po is just there for an occasional lame effort to force a laugh every now and then
It's pretty hard to follow chuy's dialogue, alone
The biggest actor in the new series came and went with barely a stutter

It all sucked, so who gives a **** anymore? Who or what is there to care about? Honestly it seems like the best plan is to just go sell weapons and rock out.

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We get it cbr, you hated the movie....

Sure but he's right. It's right where I am at too. I really don't care anymore. I honestly enjoyed seeing TLJ. It's a family event for us. Three years running, Star Wars in December has been fun. We all looked forward to it. It was entertaining and had some good fun and a few great scenes and visuals. But I don't care anymore. It's just not good enough to really care or be that invested in anymore. And now I'm right back to looking forward to the stand alone anthologies because this trilogy just isn't that intriguing at all.

Is what it is.

Beat40 said:

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redline248 said:

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Quote:

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The one thing I think Rian did that was somewhat genius was to not only make episode 9 wide open as far as just plot and story goes, but he also made Star Wars completely wide open. There is a whole new aspect to the force on the light and dark side that we have no idea where it's going. That's pretty exciting. I think it was somewhat of a master stroke to go that direction in my personal opinion.

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What new aspect is that, exactly?

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I mean, the force projections are used we have not seen before. Linking two minds together via the force is pretty new too. That's just uses of the force.

Our understanding of the force has changed too. At least the way I interpreted it from the movie is that the force is not really something that you own. It's there and it's your choice to use it for good or bad. The thought has been that a single person was suppose to bring balance to the force. In TLJ, we see the force is always in balance - it's the thing between good and evil. That's a paradigm shift for sure.

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Nope, Luke called out to Leia in ESB. Yoda knew Anakin was in "pain" when his mother died and he wiped out the Sand People village on Tatooine.

And as others have posted repeatedly, the side trips, bad characters and terrible plot are why so many dislike the movie. The girl power, men are stupid, SJW, rich are evil themes are just a little more gas on the fire.

I hope in the next movie Ren impregnates Rey via the force connection thing, she give birth too twins (and dies), the twins are separated (Poe takes one, Finn and Rose take the other) and the First Order takes control of the galaxy.

That way Disney will have a new trilogy to make 30-years from now when we will all be really bitter and pissed off!

Maybe because maybe the representation of the Empire was Darth Vader, and he was considered one of the great all-time scary villains that struck down full grown Jedi's like Obi Wan, choked people out, and was considered pure evil in the first two Star War movies (episodes 4 & 5). He was a mostly faceless depiction of evil for many young Star Wars viewers.

The leading member of the First Order Kylo Ren. Although able to stop a phaser blast and supposedly known as a "Jedi Killer", he on the other hand, was unable to defeat untrained Rey and Finn in a lightsaber battle in TFA, can never defeat Rey in any way mentally, and worst, he needed her assistance when fighting the Red Army around Snoke. While killing Han Solo was a nice touch, Vader was mostly faceless, while we've already seen the "human" side of Kylo.

Clearly, some of this depends on watching the movies at the age of 7 or 47, but a whole lot is how the lead evil character is depicted. In the OT, you feared for Luke facing Darth Vader, and Luke had to be rescued after his Light Saber duel with Vader at the end of ESB. Now you already know that either Rey will defeat Kylo Ren or turn him back to good.

The red haired general/whatever he is for the FO is just not intimidating. He's too young, not intimidating looking, and is more of a caricature of a bad guy than anything else.

In the OT, beyond Vader, Tarkin was a mean SOB without being cartoonish.

Hux really does seem like a joke. In TFA he was a fanatic and a rival to Kylo. Now he's just a bumbling dolt. He doesn't like or trust Kylo, but he knows he's outmatched.

FL_Ag1998 said:

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The red haired general/whatever he is for the FO is just not intimidating. He's too young, not intimidating looking, and is more of a caricature of a bad guy than anything else.

In the OT, beyond Vader, Tarkin was a mean SOB without being cartoonish.

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Agree 100%. Gen Hux is a joke. Immature and too far over-the-top. Every time he was onscreen in TLJ, my 12 year old daughter would look at me and quietly mouth the words, "Bill Weasley".

After the first two, the Star Trek movies were horrible. But the premise is flawed. Tfa was pretty good if a bit over retreaded. Rogue one was fantastic. The potential is there.

FTACO97 said:

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cbr said:

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He didn't leave it 'wide open', he shut off the story in so many ****ty ways that no one CARES.

Luke is gone
Carrie Fisher is dead
Solo is gone
Finn is such an annoying turncoat he's worse than jar jar
Rose might even be worse
Poe was neutered but left in charge by default
It's clear no one in the whole galaxy cares about the rebellion
Maz and chromedome turned out to just be embarrassing doll sales ploys
Snokes never mattered except to cue the light saber fight
Hux was so ridiculously stupid, I guess he's dead anyway
Adam drivers character is just an immature wus who sometimes seems powerful and sometimes doesn't
Rey just has everything easy
R2 is so disgusted with this movie he's just sitting in the corner
3po is just there for an occasional lame effort to force a laugh every now and then
It's pretty hard to follow chuy's dialogue, alone
The biggest actor in the new series came and went with barely a stutter

It all sucked, so who gives a **** anymore? Who or what is there to care about? Honestly it seems like the best plan is to just go sell weapons and rock out.

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We get it cbr, you hated the movie....

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To be fair, this seems like a very common feeling amongst fans and casual moviegoers alike.

cbr said:

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After the first two, the Star Trek movies were horrible. But the premise is flawed. Tfa was pretty good if a bit over retreaded. Rogue one was fantastic. The potential is there.

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Over retreaded is an understatement.

BassCowboy33 said:

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FTACO97 said:

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We get it cbr, you hated the movie....

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To be fair, this seems like a very common feeling amongst fans and casual moviegoers alike.

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Nope, just the vocal ones that disliked it. In this thread and the other Star Wars thread, I'd say at best it's 50/50. And in the real world, I'd go so far as to say 30/70 that dislike it.