*** SW: The Last Jedi - FULL SPOILERS BE IN HERE ***

358,960 Views | 3129 Replies | Last: 8 mo ago by Definitely Not A Cop
cbr
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
btw, rotten tomatoes is down to 50% liked it, and still trending down. I mean, ****, that is 9 points lower than phantom menace or clones! for crying out loud....

how can you make a star wars movie so bad only 50% like it? that is nearly impossible.
MSFC Aggie
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Just don't see how TLJ can be worse than Clones or Menace......those were truly awful.
Not a Bot
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
MSFC Aggie said:

Just don't see how TLJ can be worse than Clones or Menace......those were truly awful.


Would rather listen to Jar Jar for two hours than watch a bunch of women drive around searching for the nearest gas station.
wcb
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
timc08 said:

MSFC Aggie said:

Just don't see how TLJ can be worse than Clones or Menace......those were truly awful.


Would rather listen to Jar Jar for two hours than watch a bunch of women drive around searching for the nearest gas station.
Liquid Wrench
How long do you want to ignore this user?
They just had to run out of fuel.
cbr
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
holy ****, i wish i could have said it better, lol.
FTACO97
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
CJS4715 said:

Thoughts?

Since everyone else but TCTTS seemed to ignore this. I really liked this video and echoed many of the things my wife and I discussed after she saw it for the first time Saturday.
The Collective
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I too think it's an interesting take. I wish it was in written form.
Beat40
How long do you want to ignore this user?
cbr said:

btw, rotten tomatoes is down to 50% liked it, and still trending down. I mean, ****, that is 9 points lower than phantom menace or clones! for crying out loud....

how can you make a star wars movie so bad only 50% like it? that is nearly impossible.
To me, the reason is pretty simple, really.

Most Star Wars fans are their own worst enemy. TFA, TLJ, and any subsequent Star Wars movie will never be allowed to be a good movie. Too many people live in the world of the OT and will always stay there.

TFA initially had a great score based on initial reaction. In fact, many on this very site claimed it was maybe just below ESB or the 3rd best film at a minimum when they first saw it. Then, in the subsequent weeks, it seemed like TFA was analyzed frame by frame looking for every flaw. TFA was devalued greatly after that point - many of the same people on here who ranked it so high began to lower TFA to the 4th or 5th best movie in the saga.

The biggest complaint about TFA is that it was a rehash of ANH. So, Rian Johnson goes and creates a unique story and does not rehash ESB. Except with this film, many people went into the film with expectations of what certain characters were going to do. Surely Rey was a Skywalker, maybe even a twist surprise and she is a Kenobi! Luke Skywalker was going to have a badass light saber dual for sure. Now way they could leave that out... when those things were not there, it's understandable people were disappointed and started to say the movie sucked.

Not only that, many of the negative complaints have been about how TLJ destroyed their childhood. This is exactly what the subsequent Star Wars films suffer from - comparing and upholding the movies to the OT when the OT had many of the same flaws these movies have.

TLJ is by no means a perfect movie, but it also not the dumpster fire haters are making it out to be.
digital_ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
timc08 said:

MSFC Aggie said:

Just don't see how TLJ can be worse than Clones or Menace......those were truly awful.


Would rather listen to Jar Jar for two hours than watch a bunch of women drive around searching for the nearest gas station.

Holy ****
The Collective
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
timc08 said:

Would rather listen to Jar Jar for two hours than watch a bunch of women drive around searching for the nearest gas station.


I really like TLJ, but this is a thread ender right here.
Beat40
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I watched it and just forgot to respond earlier.

I agree with his view point a whole lot. Not everything, but most things.

I also think it's the main contributor to why this film has received such low audience scores. I think there were too many preconceived notions of what was going to be done that when they didn't happen, there was a ton of disappointment. Don't get me wrong, there are some parts of this movie that aren't good, but I don't think they were bad enough to TLJ to warrant the hate it has received. The highs were too high for that.

If done correctly, the final installment of this trilogy should elevate TLJ to a really good place. There are too many great high moments in this movie which should be Star Wars classic scenes. That throne room scene and then force projection will stand the test of time in my opinion.
redline248
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Quote:

Most Star Wars fans are their own worst enemy. TFA, TLJ, and any subsequent Star Wars movie will never be allowed to be a good movie. Too many people live in the world of the OT and will always stay there.
Disagree with the premise. TFA was good-very good, and audiences rate it as such (8/10 on IMDB, 88% RT), and Rogue One was good as well (7.8/10 IMDB, 87% RT). The Last Jedi just wasn't on the level of those movies.
Beat40
How long do you want to ignore this user?
redline248 said:

Quote:

Most Star Wars fans are their own worst enemy. TFA, TLJ, and any subsequent Star Wars movie will never be allowed to be a good movie. Too many people live in the world of the OT and will always stay there.
Disagree with the premise. TFA was good-very good, and audiences rate it as such (8/10 on IMDB, 88% RT), and Rogue One was good as well (7.8/10 IMDB, 87% RT). The Last Jedi just wasn't on the level of those movies.
TFA was initial fan reaction after not having a Star Wars film for nearly two decades. I challenge you to go back and review the spoiler thread. It started out with many positive reviews. After the movie had been out one, two weeks, the reviews trended more negatively.

Rogue One is a completely different beast in my book. No ties to the OT except for minor characters. The only plot tie to the OT is the Death Star plans. Other than that, original plot with original characters who all die. There is no way the Star Wars fan can compare it to the OT. The movie is meant to expand upon a story we already know.

My basic argument is that this new trilogy is an extension of the OT and that is what Star Wars fan is comparing TFA and TLJ to.

The Han Solo film will be judged based a lot on the OT too. If the Han Solo actor varies and from Harrison Ford, the movie will automatically be received in a negative light, despite if the story is actually any good.
Beat40
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I guess what I'm saying is I am not putting much stock into either rating.

TFA trended down in the weeks after it was released. I bet if it was rescored after everyone analyzed it, the score would drop 5-10 points.

I personally think the scoring for TLJ is mostly a knee jerk reaction to preconceived expectations not being met, which influenced viewing everything else that happened in the movie more negatively. I do think this film has issues, I just think they are way overblown.
02skiag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
You can read about the problems throughout this thread, no need to guess why reactions are poor. The only expectation I wanted from TLJ was to be a good fun movie. It failed at that. I loved TFA and have seen it several times.
Liquid Wrench
How long do you want to ignore this user?

Quote:

Disagree with the premise. TFA was good-very good, and audiences rate it as such (8/10 on IMDB, 88% RT), and Rogue One was good as well (7.8/10 IMDB, 87% RT). The Last Jedi just wasn't on the level of those movies.
Jmo, of course, but I thought Rogue One came pretty close to being a quality stand alone movie.
VanZandt92
How long do you want to ignore this user?
timc08 said:

MSFC Aggie said:

Just don't see how TLJ can be worse than Clones or Menace......those were truly awful.


Would rather listen to Jar Jar for two hours than watch a bunch of women drive around searching for the nearest gas station.
VanZandt92
How long do you want to ignore this user?
FTACO97 said:

CJS4715 said:

Thoughts?

Since everyone else but TCTTS seemed to ignore this. I really liked this video and echoed many of the things my wife and I discussed after she saw it for the first time Saturday.
I had to stop watching and I'll finish it later, but my initial thought is that this is the take of those who are going to retrofit the movie to whatever they need it to be. In other words, I disagree with the video, at least the first minutes. This tossing of the old is garbage, as practically every character and situation in The Last Jedi is analogous to one in either the original Star Wars or Empire Strikes Back, right down the the At ATs attacking the rebel base.

There is much more of trying to copy ESB and failing here than there is the converse.
Beat40
How long do you want to ignore this user?
02skiag said:

You can read about the problems throughout this thread, no need to guess why reactions are poor. The only expectation I wanted from TLJ was to be a good fun movie. It failed at that. I loved TFA and have seen it several times.


Many of the complaints in this thread where exactly why I said what I said. Lots of initial reactions where "my childhood is ruined" which is is absolutely a result of comparing to OT. A lot of criticism was directed at the humor. Humor is subjective. Personally, I think they hit more jokes than not. If you didn't, that's fine. But, let's not say humor is not a part of Star Wars.

Look, there are some not so great parts to this movie, but it absolutely is getting blasted for somethings that aren't that big of a deal.

I don't remember your criticisms, but which parts of TLJ were not fun for you?
Beat40
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I feel like you are one of the few who have the opinion that TLJ rehashes an OT film.
VanZandt92
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Beat40 said:

02skiag said:

You can read about the problems throughout this thread, no need to guess why reactions are poor. The only expectation I wanted from TLJ was to be a good fun movie. It failed at that. I loved TFA and have seen it several times.


I don't remember your criticisms, but which part of TLJ were not fun for you?
The question wasnt for me, but I had intended to go full stormtrooper armor to the movie and bought tickets for about 12 people at IMAX. I was fully pumped and had read the initial reviews, so I was going in full bore. In fact, I couldn't believe how the initial reaction, at least from one of the reviews was that it was as good as or better than ESB.

I wasn't able to get home in time to suit up, but we did go see it, myself, my family and another family. At the end I was glad it was over, but I couldn't really put it together. In reality, it was because much of it didn't make sense and was half baked. There were a lot of silly characters and not in the sense of Jar Jar. And again, it was a retread.

I don't think I can sit through it again, but I will watch it again once it streams.
VanZandt92
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Beat40 said:

I feel like you are one of the few who have the opinion that TLJ rehashes an OT film.
Luke is bitter and in hiding like Obi Wan. There's a start.
02skiag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
There were several individual fun parts, but the movie dragged throughout and felt disjointed. The reasons it felt that way are listed throughout this thread. As a whole it was not good to me.
Beat40
How long do you want to ignore this user?
VanZandt92 said:

Beat40 said:

I feel like you are one of the few who have the opinion that TLJ rehashes an OT film.
Luke is bitter and in hiding like Obi Wan. There's a start.


Motivations are complete different though.
Beat40
How long do you want to ignore this user?
02skiag said:

There were several individual fun parts, but the movie dragged throughout and felt disjointed. The reasons it felt that way are listed throughout this thread. As a whole it was not good to me.


Fair enough. I wasn't going to try to convince you or argue with you. I think some fall of he left side of the bell curve and some on the right. And that's ok.

I just personally feel as a whole it's getting a bad wrap. For me, it didn't feel disjointed or dragged.

It's ok we have different opinions
Liquid Wrench
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Beat40 said:

VanZandt92 said:

Beat40 said:

I feel like you are one of the few who have the opinion that TLJ rehashes an OT film.
Luke is bitter and in hiding like Obi Wan. There's a start.


Motivations are complete different though.
As we discussed earlier in this ridiculously long thread, I thought they tried to make Luke a grumpy recluse like Yoda in ESB. Then they brought Ghost Yoda back to visit w/ him like Ghost Ben in ESB. Not exactly rehashing, but trying to mirror? Possibly.
digital_ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
FTACO97 said:

CJS4715 said:

Thoughts?

Since everyone else but TCTTS seemed to ignore this. I really liked this video and echoed many of the things my wife and I discussed after she saw it for the first time Saturday.

I've seen several of these "why I'm wrong about TLJ" videos and none of them seem to address any of the real issues.

They all seem to suggest that Rian J wanted break from the mold and that this is some stroke of genius many people didn't understand or like because of their preconceptions.

First off, one of the central themes of the movie is breaking from the past so, while it does have some meta appeal, it's not exactly subtle. RJ certainly wasn't shy about driving that point home. I'm not sure why these videos keep suggesting this is something the haters don't understand.

I could point to so many things that are wrong with this movie without ever referring to anything associated with Star Wars. The pacing is terrible and disjointed, the comedy dialogue often hits its mark but then keeps going to the point of undoing the moment, the central plot of the resistance is logic defyingly stupid, the main enemy force displays such ineptitude that it invalidates them as any threat to the main characters, the newly introduced characters interfere with the established chemistry and dynamic of the characters we are already familiar with (Purple lady and Rose).

Yes Rian did deviate from the past but its not the master stroke these videos seem to indicate it is. As a matter of fact I think he was so hell bent on not making something that related to the OT that he deviated in illogical places just for the sake of it being different.

Beat40
How long do you want to ignore this user?
ChiliBeans said:

Beat40 said:

VanZandt92 said:

Beat40 said:

I feel like you are one of the few who have the opinion that TLJ rehashes an OT film.
Luke is bitter and in hiding like Obi Wan. There's a start.


Motivations are complete different though.
As we discussed earlier in this ridiculously long thread, I thought they tried to make Luke a grumpy recluse like Yoda in ESB. Then they brought Ghost Yoda back to visit w/ him like Ghost Ben in ESB. Not exactly rehashing, but trying to mirror? Possibly.
That's what I mean by motivation. Yes, Yoda is a grumpy old recluse and so it Luke. But I doubt Yoda's motivation for being a grumpy old recluse is because the think the Jedi Order should die.

While the situation is very similar to Obi-wan or Yoda, I think the motivations make it very different.

I do agree there are clear mirrors in TLJ. I just think think the context in most are different. I somewhat even think that's part of the point.

All I'm saying
Beat40
How long do you want to ignore this user?
digital_ag said:


I've seen several of these "why I'm wrong about TLJ" videos and none of them seem to address any of the real issues.

They all seem to suggest that Rian J wanted break from the mold and that this is some stroke of genius many people didn't understand or like because of their preconceptions.

First off, one of the central themes of the movie is breaking from the past so, while it does have some meta appeal, it's not exactly subtle. RJ certainly wasn't shy about driving that point home. I'm not sure why these videos keep suggesting this is something the haters don't understand. In the video linked, the individual would agree with you. He suggests the them of breaking from the past is explicit in certain places.

I could point to so many things that are wrong with this movie without ever referring to anything associated with Star Wars. The pacing is terrible and disjointed, the comedy dialogue often hits its mark but then keeps going to the point of undoing the moment, the central plot of the resistance is logic defyingly stupid, the main enemy force displays such ineptitude that it invalidates them as any threat to the main characters, the newly introduced characters interfere with the established chemistry and dynamic of the characters we are already familiar with (Purple lady and Rose).

I have no comment on pacing. I personally did not think it was disjointed. I'm not sure what else the resistance could have done when they knew they were being chased and had no way of escape at the time the figure out they're being tracked through hyperspace. As far as the enemy - I would agree there is ineptness there. However, they still reduced the resistance to an amount of people that could all fit on the Falcon. That's pretty significant. I agree that Rose is a mistake. Wish they wouldn't have done that. I would have liked the addition of Haldo if she could have been in episode 9 as well.

Yes Rian did deviate from the past but its not the master stroke these videos seem to indicate it is. As a matter of fact I think he was so hell bent on not making something that related to the OT that he deviated in illogical places just for the sake of it being different.

The one thing I think Rian did that was somewhat genius was to not only make episode 9 wide open as far as just plot and story goes, but he also made Star Wars completely wide open. There is a whole new aspect to the force on the light and dark side that we have no idea where it's going. That's pretty exciting. I think it was somewhat of a master stroke to go that direction in my personal opinion.

FL_Ag1998
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
digital_ag said:

FTACO97 said:

CJS4715 said:

Thoughts?

Since everyone else but TCTTS seemed to ignore this. I really liked this video and echoed many of the things my wife and I discussed after she saw it for the first time Saturday.

I've seen several of these "why I'm wrong about TLJ" videos and none of them seem to address any of the real issues.

They all seem to suggest that Rian J wanted break from the mold and that this is some stroke of genius many people didn't understand or like because of their preconceptions.

First off, one of the central themes of the movie is breaking from the past so, while it does have some meta appeal, it's not exactly subtle. RJ certainly wasn't shy about driving that point home. I'm not sure why these videos keep suggesting this is something the haters don't understand.

I could point to so many things that are wrong with this movie without ever referring to anything associated with Star Wars. The pacing is terrible and disjointed, the comedy dialogue often hits its mark but then keeps going to the point of undoing the moment, the central plot of the resistance is logic defyingly stupid, the main enemy force displays such ineptitude that it invalidates them as any threat to the main characters, the newly introduced characters interfere with the established chemistry and dynamic of the characters we are already familiar with (Purple lady and Rose).

Yes Rian did deviate from the past but its not the master stroke these videos seem to indicate it is. As a matter of fact I think he was so hell bent on not making something that related to the OT that he deviated in illogical places just for the sake of it being different.




This. 1,000,000 this. My dislike for the movie has nothing to do with breaking from the OT and ruining my childhood. Hell, the lone part of the movie where I actually got pumped was when Kylo was telling Rey to kill the past if you have to. It was simply a very amateurish and clumsily written and directed movie.
redline248
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Quote:

The one thing I think Rian did that was somewhat genius was to not only make episode 9 wide open as far as just plot and story goes, but he also made Star Wars completely wide open. There is a whole new aspect to the force on the light and dark side that we have no idea where it's going. That's pretty exciting. I think it was somewhat of a master stroke to go that direction in my personal opinion.
What new aspect is that, exactly?
Beat40
How long do you want to ignore this user?
redline248 said:

Quote:

The one thing I think Rian did that was somewhat genius was to not only make episode 9 wide open as far as just plot and story goes, but he also made Star Wars completely wide open. There is a whole new aspect to the force on the light and dark side that we have no idea where it's going. That's pretty exciting. I think it was somewhat of a master stroke to go that direction in my personal opinion.
What new aspect is that, exactly?


I mean, the force projections are used we have not seen before. Linking two minds together via the force is pretty new too. That's just uses of the force.

Our understanding of the force has changed too. At least the way I interpreted it from the movie is that the force is not really something that you own. It's there and it's your choice to use it for good or bad. The thought has been that a single person was suppose to bring balance to the force. In TLJ, we see the force is always in balance - it's the thing between good and evil. That's a paradigm shift for sure.
redline248
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
If you ever thought from previous movies that anyone owned the force you had a serious misunderstanding. I don't think that was any sort of revelation. This thing about the balance is something I'm not sure about. Luke, were he still alive, wasn't going to start going around using the dark side for every time he used the light.

I don't know if that's a Johnson thing, or a Lucasfilm thing. Lucas and Filoni somewhat started that in the Clone Wars series, and a little in rebels. The Last Jedi didn't do anything to make it clear what is meant. If you use the force for personal gain, you're falling to the dark side and will end up corrupted. Period.
Liquid Wrench
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I think TFA definitely set out to establish the force as existing beyond what we'd seen in previous movies, beyond highly trained Jedi and Sith.



Admittedly I have no idea what was done in the EU.
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.