Then you're like most people.Quote:
I'm a relative Star Wars beginner. I've watched the movies, but never really obsessed or went any further than what was presented before me.
*** SW: The Last Jedi - FULL SPOILERS BE IN HERE ***
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Cstrickland05 said:Ulrich said:redline248 said:
The one thing I'll say about Rey ending up as a nobody is this:
Anakin was a nobody, albeit conceived by the force (apparently). Obi-Wan, for all we know, was a nobody. Probably Yoda, too. Powerful force users don't have to come from powerful force parents, especially since the Jedi didn't marry or believe in relationships.
However, there was some build up about her lineage in the eyes of most viewers during Force Awakens. Now it feels cheap.
Oh well.
I'm not concerned at all about her lineage, but in TFA she clearly has backstory. For example, Han recognizes her name. Leia appears to recognize her. Ren reacts strongly to the news that "a girl" helped the droid escape without even knowing her name. She's on Jakku. Luke's lightsaber gives her a crazy flashback. Her powers make no sense without real training. There's so much foreshadowing.
I strongly believe that when TFA was written she was supposed to be very involved with the academy and the Skywalkers when she was a child. Rian Johnson may have tried to kill that story line in TLJ, but there's no doubt in my mind that Abrams was going to do more than leave her as a fluke Mary Jane. He's too much of a Star Wars fan to be that inconsistent with how the universe works, so I think he'll salvage the story line in IX.
I kind of think that Johnson was supposed to develop Ren and try to more or less leave Rey in stasis for Abrams to pick back up. It would explain why he came up with plot filler instead of developing Rey.
I can agree with that. If her parents were just some drunks on Jakku, who was in the spaceship that she watched fly away.
They just went to another spaceport
However, everything Ulrich said is on point. Not to mention the novelization of TFA having Kylo blurt out "it is you!" in some capacity of recognition.
It's entirely plausible that Kyler was lying in order to forge some kind of connection, as if he was the only one who saw her true value or whatever.
ChiliBeans said:
It's entirely plausible that Kyler was lying in order to forge some kind of connection, as if he was the only one who saw her true value or whatever.
I'm not sure what a miniature quarterback from Oklahoma has to do with this, but I've assumed Kylo was lying in some respect all along.
She also understands wookie flawlessly.
Quote:
Not to mention the novelization of TFA having Kylo blurt out "it is you!" in some capacity of recognition.
This isn't just Kylo identifying Rey as the awakening that he and Snoke both sensed?
I don't think so. He has already captured her, had her resist his interrogation and escape. There is nothing to suggest that he and Snoke haven't already realized she is the "awakening" by this point.
One thing that is important to remember is that the film novelizations are only canon to the extent that the movies don't contradict them. Probably not a good enough explanation for some people, but given how both film and book are being edited and recut on two simultaneous tight timelines, there are always going to be some discrepancies.
I have been drinking. Going to see Star Wars sounds sort of awesome right now.
True, but the novelizations give some insights into earlier intents and how they were reconjiggered.Ag Since 83 said:
One thing that is important to remember is that the film novelizations are only canon to the extent that the movies don't contradict them. Probably not a good enough explanation for some people, but given how both film and book are being edited and recut on two simultaneous tight timelines, there are always going to be some discrepancies.
I knew everything about the old canon, but when they scrapped all that i didn't even attempt to read the new stuff. As far as I'm concerned the movies are all that exists.
Ulrich said:
I knew everything about the old canon, but when they scrapped all that i didn't even attempt to read the new stuff. As far as I'm concerned the movies are all that exists.
Honestly, from what I've read, this isn't a terrible idea. The first Leia book is somewhat interesting in how the Republic senate was tending back toward strong centralized power, and basically ends with her starting the resistance - even though she hasn't learned of the FO.
Other than that, they haven't touched Luke after Jedi. Snoke is as mysterious as ever, and there's no longer any point in learning about him or how the first order rose from the empire's ashes, in my opinion. They waste time on Phasma and Rose,
or maybe her sister, (haven't read either).
Phasnas armor was sort of silly looking. Stainless doesn't make you more badass
It would've been a lot better with transparesteel and Eva Green playing Phasma... if you know what I meanVanZandt92 said:
Phasnas armor was sort of silly looking. Stainless doesn't make you more badass
wesag said:Saxsoon said:
Anyone who says this film is worse than the prequels is jaded as hell and whose opinion shouldn't matter
I disagree. The acting in this one was heads above the prequels, but the story and subplots were quite bad. There are some pretty badass sequences in the prequels. Please don't say the Snoke scene was great. It was a Prometheus CGI guy who was protected by ninjas
That snoke scene was great! I loved the tension of the scene and smoke toying with Rey and making her into the child she is. And then presupposes what bens intentions were and read them perfectly, except for the target. And that was a fun fight by seeing a blue and red lightsaber fighting side by side
Just saw the movie - good time f the whole family
91G 'EM 94GGIES!
Bockaneer said:
Just saw the movie - good time f the whole family
Maybe my favorite take yet. F 'em all.
BravoTCTTS said:Bockaneer said:
Just saw the movie - good time f the whole family
Maybe my favorite take yet. F 'em all.
How many people are they going to let fall off catwalks without hand rails before the New Order's version of OSHA steps in?
Finally got around to seeing it. Brought the wife and 14 year old son. Wife fell asleep and son said it was "OK" which means he didn't care much for it. I enjoyed it for the most part but had issues with the portrayal of Luke, meaningless side stories, sad attempts at humor and blowing the should-have-been death of Leia.
The 1st hour seemed very slow. Caught myself checking my watch 3 or 4 times. 2nd half improved. I won't go back and see this again.
The only question I had was regarding the discussion of arms dealers. Did anyone else feel like the inclusion of an X-Wing in the group of otherwise First order ships may have foreshadowed the First Order surprising the Resistance in the future with an X-Wing variant in the future?
The 1st hour seemed very slow. Caught myself checking my watch 3 or 4 times. 2nd half improved. I won't go back and see this again.
The only question I had was regarding the discussion of arms dealers. Did anyone else feel like the inclusion of an X-Wing in the group of otherwise First order ships may have foreshadowed the First Order surprising the Resistance in the future with an X-Wing variant in the future?
I think that was just showing that those people only had allegiance to money since they were making things for both sides.
IV-VI
vs.
VII-VIII
It's not that any of those things were done. It's that they were all done AGAIN, after such a rich cinematic history on display in past SW films. If TFA would have been the first movie in the franchise, none of us would have near the problems we did with the lack of context. There was no gap being bridged when A New Hope debuted. It was ok to be dropped into that world without knowing much about it. But when we have so many questions in the 30 years following ROTJ, and the filmmakers choose to be just as vague as they were initially, it's super frustrating.
I actually read the whole 64 pages of this entertaining, yet uninforming thread.
My take on this latest episode of star wars is 7/10. Fun yet some stupid parts. (I'm 45 and grew up as a Star Wars fan).
I'm not going to repeat what has already been beat to death but the primary scene/theme that I didn't understand was the dark side pit on the island. Apparently Luke was very afraid of it and when Rey was forcetiming with Kylo and she thought of the dark pit the water splashed on his hand across the force link. Then she is staring at the pit and is sucked in only to see herself in an infinity mirror.
I would have predicted this would mirror the dark tunnel with Yoda on Dagobah where Luke killed Darth and it ended up being Luke in the helmet. Maybe that is what was intended but when she asked to see her parents in this dark force pit she just saw herself.
What was the point of the whole dark pit on the island? I get that it represents the balance of the force and it is the decay to the life aspect and such-- but it just seemed like a scene that lead to a dead end and was a complete waste of time.
My take on this latest episode of star wars is 7/10. Fun yet some stupid parts. (I'm 45 and grew up as a Star Wars fan).
I'm not going to repeat what has already been beat to death but the primary scene/theme that I didn't understand was the dark side pit on the island. Apparently Luke was very afraid of it and when Rey was forcetiming with Kylo and she thought of the dark pit the water splashed on his hand across the force link. Then she is staring at the pit and is sucked in only to see herself in an infinity mirror.
I would have predicted this would mirror the dark tunnel with Yoda on Dagobah where Luke killed Darth and it ended up being Luke in the helmet. Maybe that is what was intended but when she asked to see her parents in this dark force pit she just saw herself.
What was the point of the whole dark pit on the island? I get that it represents the balance of the force and it is the decay to the life aspect and such-- but it just seemed like a scene that lead to a dead end and was a complete waste of time.
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TCTTS said:
It's not that any of those things were done. It's that they were all done AGAIN, after such a rich cinematic history on display in past SW films. If TFA would have been the first movie in the franchise, none of us would have near the problems we did with the lack of context. There was no gap being bridged when A New Hope debuted. It was ok to be dropped into that world without knowing much about it. But when we have so many questions in the 30 years following ROTJ, and the filmmakers choose to be just as vague as they were initially, it's super frustrating.
Disagree.
First some of those things were not just from the first movie, Star Wars, but basically persisted for the entire first trilogy. Other than finding out Luke's real parentage we didn't even find out anything about the Emperor or Boba Fett really. And I was fine with it. Not everything has to be the level of detail some fanboys want.
Secondly, it was already 2.5 hours and yeah some time wasted for sure on Canto Bight (cuz Finn had to do something I guess)....but to delve into each of those other stories in depth would have made it 3.5 hours minimum. No thanks.
There are things that are important and things that are not....it's the artistic decision of the film makers and studio to decide that. Was I curious about Snoke, KoR, Phasma.....really honestly just a little about Snoke, I didn't expect much there - the evil mentor is rarely the central figure. I didn't give 2 ****s about phasma, the KoR I was pretty interested in...but I also assume the story is not complete.
I also don't really know any backstory on Lando other than he was a buddy of Han and a smuggler and gambler that originally owned the Falcon.
The OT had many weaknesses, plot holes and unresolved stories. But I love them.
I've liked TFA and TLJ better than ROTJ actually....but not as good as SW or ESB.
I just watched the movie they made - sure it had weaknesses, issues, some questions and unresolved thing - but I enjoyed the movie immensely.
bangobango said:Not to pick on you, and you are certainly entitled to be excited about whatever it is you find fun and interesting, but I think for me and others it's a bit deflating for main plot line for the THIRD movie in a trilogy to be the good guys starting completely from scratch, building up their forces, and then somehow defeating the bad guys.corleoneAg99 said:
I actually don't think it's an ongoing element that the rebels have yet to win. I think what is THE most exciting ongoing element is how they will construct the rebellion essentially from scratch to try and defeat the FO.
I also want to see force ghost Luke(and others maybe?) come back and help Rey possibly or be part of a flash back to see how she's progressed in what I imagine will be a time jump.
In short I'm excited for quite a bit to come and if they don't get to all of it, or only parts of it, I bet I'll like what JJ comes up with.
One, that seems like an awful lot to pack into one movie and still get to any other plot elements, like Rey's training (or a montage of her reading books, I guess). Two, it can't help but make you feel the first two movies were a complete waste of time.
It's like taking Frodo and Sam at the end of the Two Towers and putting them back in the Shire for the start of the Return of the King and telling them they have to walk all the way back to Mordor to destroy the ring.
For one, I am glad that JJ is back at the helm. The only way I see this story progressing does not involve some massive RESISTANCE rebuild. It will probably need to involve some inside takeover (Rey) of the First Order, but with the intention of turning them good? Other than that I don't know where they go from here unless the new Rian trilogy is meant to stretch this into some 6 movie arc.
G Martin 87 said:BTW, if Snoke was using the Force to setup multiple video conference calls between two people in different parts of the galaxy and Snoke didn't seem to suffer any ill effects, how come Luke couldn't keep it together after projecting just one person across the same distance once?digital_ag said:
Instead it was just Snoke doing a trap thing. Rug pulled. Rey and Kylo are still Force equals (why?), Rey magically escapes after a fun bout of tug-o-war. Everything built up and then dissolved away.
I guess it could be explained by Luke shutting himself off for years. Use it or lose it?
texasaggie04 said:G Martin 87 said:BTW, if Snoke was using the Force to setup multiple video conference calls between two people in different parts of the galaxy and Snoke didn't seem to suffer any ill effects, how come Luke couldn't keep it together after projecting just one person across the same distance once?digital_ag said:
Instead it was just Snoke doing a trap thing. Rug pulled. Rey and Kylo are still Force equals (why?), Rey magically escapes after a fun bout of tug-o-war. Everything built up and then dissolved away.
I guess it could be explained by Luke shutting himself off for years. Use it or lose it?
I'm not sure it was the same thing.....it was similar though.
Rey and Kylo seemed to initially just be aware of the others presence and could hear each other and "see" each other. But it seemed more like a faint vision or perhaps a vision like looking through a lens not like a full 360 degree immersive projection into the others environment. They were looking around a bit surreally like they could only see parts of it and were trying to make sense of it.
Luke was a full immersive projection of his body and physical interaction within the entire scene.
It's like a LITE vs. a FULL version of the same thing.
How about a more likely explanation that doesn't depend on making up head canon? Rian Johnson goofed. Again.texasaggie04 said:G Martin 87 said:BTW, if Snoke was using the Force to setup multiple video conference calls between two people in different parts of the galaxy and Snoke didn't seem to suffer any ill effects, how come Luke couldn't keep it together after projecting just one person across the same distance once?digital_ag said:
Instead it was just Snoke doing a trap thing. Rug pulled. Rey and Kylo are still Force equals (why?), Rey magically escapes after a fun bout of tug-o-war. Everything built up and then dissolved away.
I guess it could be explained by Luke shutting himself off for years. Use it or lose it?
Or, alternatively, the Force is still mysterious, different people have different powers, the light side and dark side are different, etc.G Martin 87 said:How about a more likely explanation that doesn't depend on making up head canon? Rian Johnson goofed. Again.texasaggie04 said:G Martin 87 said:BTW, if Snoke was using the Force to setup multiple video conference calls between two people in different parts of the galaxy and Snoke didn't seem to suffer any ill effects, how come Luke couldn't keep it together after projecting just one person across the same distance once?digital_ag said:
Instead it was just Snoke doing a trap thing. Rug pulled. Rey and Kylo are still Force equals (why?), Rey magically escapes after a fun bout of tug-o-war. Everything built up and then dissolved away.
I guess it could be explained by Luke shutting himself off for years. Use it or lose it?
Sigh...
This movie is to Star Wars what Season Eight is to Walking Dead. Trying to get cute. Lazy writing. Pseudo-intellectualism. And gaping plot-holes.
Lets start with tactical issues. How do bombs "fall" in space (assume others mentioned this already)? Assume they get around this. In an age of lasers, missiles, and fighter jets. A weapons platform that must be directly OVER and dangerously close to it's target is absurd. The FO ships had cannons plucking cruisers from the air, yet these lumbering ships closed the distance? Just stop...
Light speed ramming? Isn't virtually every ship in the universe light-speed capable? Then why the he** isn't every massed armada decimated in a matter of minutes by a small fleet of remote-piloted tankers and other assorted fodder? Doesn't this render blockades and other static targets obsolete overnight?
This movie is to Star Wars what Season Eight is to Walking Dead. Trying to get cute. Lazy writing. Pseudo-intellectualism. And gaping plot-holes.
Lets start with tactical issues. How do bombs "fall" in space (assume others mentioned this already)? Assume they get around this. In an age of lasers, missiles, and fighter jets. A weapons platform that must be directly OVER and dangerously close to it's target is absurd. The FO ships had cannons plucking cruisers from the air, yet these lumbering ships closed the distance? Just stop...
Light speed ramming? Isn't virtually every ship in the universe light-speed capable? Then why the he** isn't every massed armada decimated in a matter of minutes by a small fleet of remote-piloted tankers and other assorted fodder? Doesn't this render blockades and other static targets obsolete overnight?
Nobody cares. Work Harder
I personally can forgive things like this. Star Wars has always entertained by refilming classic scenes in space - b17's are dramatic and this is among those lines. I can get in line with the light speed kamikaze ok, it's clearly a logic hole, but maybe it's really difficult to actually aim and hit so it isn't used more often.
My problem with the movie is the story just sucks, it made snotty irrational moron losers out of iconic heroes, and went nowhere.
The ONLY way to enjoy this movie is to just ignore everything but the blaster sounds and light sabers and go 'oooh flashy'
My problem with the movie is the story just sucks, it made snotty irrational moron losers out of iconic heroes, and went nowhere.
The ONLY way to enjoy this movie is to just ignore everything but the blaster sounds and light sabers and go 'oooh flashy'
The lightspeed ramming and tracking through light speed changes the universe the way "trans warp beaming" changed star trek.
It also makes us question the physics of lightspeed, which TFA kind of did. Its better to leave those things as the are and not use them for head scratching effects. For example, the ship would have to manipulate space around it or create some type of bubble, otherwise people would die from the acceleration. Here the ship is actually accelerating like a projectile.
It was a really cool scene, but seems to change the whole universe.
It also makes us question the physics of lightspeed, which TFA kind of did. Its better to leave those things as the are and not use them for head scratching effects. For example, the ship would have to manipulate space around it or create some type of bubble, otherwise people would die from the acceleration. Here the ship is actually accelerating like a projectile.
It was a really cool scene, but seems to change the whole universe.
So it's ok to have bad space physics as long as it's the same bad space physics from the original trilogy?
I get your point but real space combat would not even be filmable, much less entertaining. Radical speeds and distances no flames no sounds no pilots or gunners, probably not much drama or visible activity at all. Just silent disintegration of the losers.
The key I guess is making it feel like a ww1 dogfight with flashy sights and sounds but not going 'full stupid'
The key I guess is making it feel like a ww1 dogfight with flashy sights and sounds but not going 'full stupid'
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