*** SW: The Last Jedi - FULL SPOILERS BE IN HERE ***

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nikator
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In reply to tremble • 2:10p, 12/15/17
AG
tremble said:
bobinator said:
Rey's lightsaber skills are another thing that people are talking about but doesn't bother me. She was kicking ass with a big stick before she had the lightsaber, and we already know she's incredibly strong with the force so her reactions would clearly be faster than any normal person anyway.


I would have been fine with them giving Rey a saber-staff or spear or something similar. Having her be a martial arts expert in all forms of weapon-based combat makes absolutely no sense to me, at all.

Part of the problem is that the OT and the prequels already established the fact that lightsabers are ****ing hard to use.
They showed her training with the staff and adapting those moves to a light saber. She is not fighting a classical fencing style
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Urban Ag
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In reply to TCTTS • 2:11p, 12/15/17
AG
TCTTS said:
I'm 75% certain that sequence was filmed. There's also behind the scenes footage of Rey running along the shore of the island at dusk, ignited light saber in hand, that obviously wasn't used. I also recall paparazzi pics from a location that looked to be filling in for the island, with Rey seemingly facing off against a small group of what looked to be warriors of some sort. Based in all of that, I, and many others, were convinced Kylo the Knights of Ren would at some attack the island.
I read a leaked script well over a year ago that had Kylo and the Knights of Ren tracking Luke and Rey down to the island. I think that was probably the original purpose of the transmitter that Rey carries that was tied to the one Leia carried and that ended up with Finn. Finn gets captured, Kylo get the transmitter thing, he and the Knights of Ren track them down, epic force user showdown.

This could all of happened in parallel to the rebels being pursued to Crait and the standoff.

If true, wonder what caused them to change the ending?
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IrishAg
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In reply to Saul Goodman • 2:12p, 12/15/17
Saul Goodman said:
I don't agree with everything here, but he summarizes my thoughts on the Canto Bight part of the story really well:

http://www.roosterteeth.com/post/51552869
I agree with them on the moments, there are so many great moments....but it's like they wrote the moments first and then just jerry-rigged everything else to get to those moments (no matter how impractical, lacking of common sense, or plain silly the scenario was).

I loved the kid at the end, I loved Luke looking into the twin suns as he faded away, I loved the moment of sacrifice the vice-admiral made to destroy the fleet, and more....but getting to those moments was usually awkward and out of sync from everything
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bobinator
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In reply to GrayMatter • 2:12p, 12/15/17
AG
I actually don't think he's weak minded at all, he's just almost insanely independent. He pushed back (I guess, although we didn't see it) as an apprentice against Luke, he killed Snoke, he would have killed Luke, he doesn't really want to be part of the first order he's just using it as a tool to crush the resistance.

He's maybe not as disciplined mentally, if that's what you mean. He's super emotional.

But yeah, there is more to come on Kylo Ren for sure. He's not just going to be like "typical bad empire guy" now.

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txag11
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2:13p, 12/15/17
AG
Some things that pissed me off:

-Luke dying at the end of this.

How is it that the most powerful force-user in the galaxy just is gone? It felt like he should be redeemed by starting anew by training Rey and starting a new Gray Jedi Order or something of the like. I can get past this to some degree because he did just become the force much like Yoda and Obi-Wan. He did it to save the Resistance, his sister and Rey. It just seriously pisses me off that he was so powerful that he could force project to another distant planet in the galaxy and just fades off into the force. I know he will be back as a force ghost, and the only thing that makes me feel better about it is Yoda's force ghost in this movie. Yoda was able to interact with Luke, hitting him on the head, and striking the tree with lightning, burning it down. This is the first time we've seen a force ghost interact with physical matter in any way. I have every reason to believe Luke would be equally powerful, and able to interact with the physical realm.

-Phasma maybe dying.

Why the hell did I read the four issue comic and novel about her, for her to simply have like 2 lines and a short fight seen before falling, and we assume dying. Maybe she will be back and be more active in the story but who knows...

-Rose and Finn arc.

Worthless to the progression of the film. I wish they would have spent more time developing the rey/kylo/luke relationship, or show more of Rey training with Luke.
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bobinator
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In reply to IrishAg • 2:13p, 12/15/17
AG
So this is how I described the movie to my friends I saw it with. It almost felt like the last season of Game of Thrones where they wanted moments A, B and C and then reverse engineered the plot to get there.
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GrayMatter
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In reply to bobinator • 2:18p, 12/15/17
AG
bobinator said:
I actually don't think he's weak minded at all, he's just almost insanely independent. He pushed back (I guess, although we didn't see it) against Luke, he killed Snoke, he would have killed Luke, he doesn't really want to be part of the first order he's just using it as a tool to crush the resistance.

He's maybe not as disciplined mentally, if that's what you mean. He's super emotional.

But yeah, there is more to come on Kylo Ren for sure. He's not just going to be like "typical bad empire guy" now.
Yes super emotional and there's a couple of things to consider as well.

1) He's pretty young to be supreme leader and inexperienced being the man calling the shots.

2) Rey hasn't really been seduced by the darkside the same way that Luke, Anakin and Kylo (to a certain extent) by having a loved one killed off by the dark side. I think her character didn't have an arc in this movie because she's going to have a bigger arc in the next one. I thought it was very interesting how they left off details about her parents and just teased us about it.
The conversations will be uncomfortable, but we all have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable for progress to be made.
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hurleyag
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In reply to bobinator • 2:19p, 12/15/17
AG
That's what you get when you don't have the entire trilogy written out from the beginning and let Rian come in for the second movie and write his own script based on what JJ/lucasart/disney gave him.
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bobinator
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2:21p, 12/15/17
AG
I wonder, and this would actually make another character make more sense, if we're going to see the rest of the First Order refuse to work for Kylo Ren. They've been setting up this power struggle thing between him and Hux for two movies now, but I could see a scenario where they're like "he's taken this personal thing too far, this isn't about squashing the resistance anymore."
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GrayMatter
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In reply to hurleyag • 2:22p, 12/15/17
AG
hurleyag said:
That's what you get when you don't have the entire trilogy written out from the beginning and let Rian come in for the second movie and write his own script based on what JJ/lucasart/disney gave him.
I'm wondering if the reason why Abrams is directing Episode 9 is because Disney et al might have not liked the direction that Rian took the story.
The conversations will be uncomfortable, but we all have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable for progress to be made.
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Teacher_Ag
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In reply to hurleyag • 2:22p, 12/15/17
AG
hurleyag said:
That's what you get when you don't have the entire trilogy written out from the beginning and let Rian come in for the second movie and write his own script based on what JJ/lucasart/disney gave him.
I had that thought, too. He obviously a pretty capable director in ways, but letting different directors take over individual installments in a trilogy is pretty risky. I'd rather one director committed to completing the full trilogy to make sure it feels more cohesive.
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hurleyag
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2:23p, 12/15/17
AG
I don't think we are done seeing the conflict between Hux and Kylo. Hux had a "this emotional kid just got fooled by a projection and let the resistance get away is going to be our leader?" look on his face at the end of the movie.
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bobinator
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In reply to GrayMatter • 2:25p, 12/15/17
AG
AggieBaller98 said:

I'm wondering if the reason why Abrams is directing Episode 9 is because Disney et al might have not liked the direction that Rian took the story.
That's definitely not the case since they've now given him his own corner of the universe to write his own story.

But the story is good, it's the details of the path to get there that was shaky.
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GrayMatter
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In reply to bobinator • 2:25p, 12/15/17
AG
bobinator said:
I wonder, and this would actually make another character make more sense, if we're going to see the rest of the First Order refuse to work for Kylo Ren. They've been setting up this power struggle thing between him and Hux for two movies now, but I could see a scenario where they're like "he's taken this personal thing too far, this isn't about squashing the resistance anymore."
I think the hard thing about this trilogy is that it isn't coming from George Lucas. You could theorize all you can, but ultimately it won't be what you think it will be because he's not the one calling the shots. This means that you get a watered down version of what you think is going to happen.
The conversations will be uncomfortable, but we all have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable for progress to be made.
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Flashdiaz
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In reply to GrayMatter • 2:29p, 12/15/17
AG
AggieBaller98 said:
hurleyag said:
That's what you get when you don't have the entire trilogy written out from the beginning and let Rian come in for the second movie and write his own script based on what JJ/lucasart/disney gave him.
I'm wondering if the reason why Abrams is directing Episode 9 is because Disney et al might have not liked the direction that Rian took the story.
no, I think it's just very apparent they didn't have the structure in place for the story of this trilogy. I guess Rian was right. Very surprising they're winging it Episode by Episode.
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Know Your Enemy
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In reply to redd38 • 2:42p, 12/15/17
AG
redd38 said:
Did Leia do anything important after she flew through space? Seems like they could have just let her die at that point. Then Luke sensing that could have been the reason he came back to help the resistance.
They HAD to have one last scene with Luke and Leia together.
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wangus12
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In reply to GrayMatter • 2:50p, 12/15/17
AG
AggieBaller98 said:
hurleyag said:
That's what you get when you don't have the entire trilogy written out from the beginning and let Rian come in for the second movie and write his own script based on what JJ/lucasart/disney gave him.
I'm wondering if the reason why Abrams is directing Episode 9 is because Disney et al might have not liked the direction that Rian took the story.
I wouldn't say that since they are going to let him direct his own trilogy. If anything, they are very pleased with what Rian created.
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42799862
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In reply to GrayMatter • 2:51p, 12/15/17
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hunter2012
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2:55p, 12/15/17
AG
Seems appropriate here, see if you can find yourself on the chart:

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americathegreat1492
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3:07p, 12/15/17
So I just home. I felt like, objectively, it's a decent movie, but I didn't like it. I can say that this is the first star wars that left me irritated coming out of the theatre. I was able to enjoy the moments that I knew they put on display for fans, but the story just did not grip me. Something seemed "off" about the spirit of it all.


Mark Hamill is quoted as having told Rian "I fundamentally disagree with everything you've done with my character." I'm not sure I would go that far, but he was one several characters that felt like they should have had different moments. It's not that Luke did not have an impact at the end, but it was a wasted impact. It was wasted in the sense that the last time we saw Luke Jedi-Lightsaber wielding Skywalker do some badass **** was like 30 years ago.

One of the bigger issues I had in this movie were the way too many "what in the actual **** was that" moments. Leia levitating in space was one of them, which by the way was the most powerful display of force powers by a Skywalker since ROTJ. Not that Luke's image projection didn't require "power" but that kind of mass mind trick doesn't have the same visceral effect as levitation or force lightning.

Yoda. What the ****? Like what in the actual ****?? On paper having him pop up for a short talk is fine, but the way he pops in doesn't seem believable. Then we see a force ghost play a ****ING JOKE on his apprentice by calling lightning from the sky. The whole sequence was just mind boggling. Yoda is definitely not above jokes, but again, something felt off about this sequence like most of the movie did.


Anyway, I know some people won't agree but this just felt very average to me. Luke ****ing badass Skywalker felt wasted. Snoke was definitely wasted. Phasma was wasted. Holto was wasted. Del Toro was wasted.

Anyway, those are my toughts. Have definitely enjoyed the marvel films more than a star wars film since ROTJ came out.
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bobinator
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In reply to americathegreat1492 • 3:13p, 12/15/17
AG
americathegreat1492 said:
Anyway, I know some people won't agree but this just felt very average to me. Luke ****ing badass Skywalker felt wasted. Snoke was definitely wasted. Phasma was wasted. Holto was wasted. Del Toro was wasted.
So... even though I agree with your overall take of the movie, this is just a random thought for conversation, but what is it about Luke that really makes him a badass? Compared to many other people we've seen wield the force, Luke really hasn't done all that much.

In some ways I kind of like this movie's deconstruction of who Luke Skywalker is. (Like I said earlier, I don't like that one of his biggest moments, where he and Kylo Ren split, comes in between movies, but as a general theme I sort of like this...) It kind of fits with what Luke himself said in that he's more legend than anything.
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The Ice Cream Kid
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In reply to AGGies0311 • 3:18p, 12/15/17
AGGies0311 said:
I was under the understanding that the Crimson Guard in Snoke's throne room were the knights of Ren

I suppose that is possible, but I don't think so. I think the Knights of Ren are a Vader cult, and they all have Vader-inspired masks. We got a glimpse of them in TFA. The guards did not have any force powers (that I noticed), and it seems like the Knights are the other Skywalker apprentices who stuck with Solo.
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AGGies0311
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In reply to The Ice Cream Kid • 3:18p, 12/15/17
Then maybe they are waiting for Ren on Mustafar and thats where IX will start.
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AggieLitigator
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3:31p, 12/15/17
definitely not in the top five of all the Star Wars movies. Lots of plot holes and very disappointing .
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42799862
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3:31p, 12/15/17
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jr15aggie
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3:31p, 12/15/17
AG
'Bout to go see it for the 2nd time now with the wife and kids. I'm guessing I'll have a better impression like most... I'm over being ticked off about Luke so I'm sure I'll just enjoy the awesome stuff this time.
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agracer
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In reply to americathegreat1492 • 3:32p, 12/15/17
AG
americathegreat1492 said:
Anyway, I know some people won't agree but this just felt very average to me. Luke ****ing badass Skywalker felt wasted. Snoke was definitely wasted. Phasma was wasted. Holto Haldo was wasted. Del Toro was wasted.

Anyway, those are my toughts. Have definitely enjoyed the marvel films more than a star wars film since ROTJ came out.
Haldo was almost Jar Jar...seriously, her character was just terrible and for some "legendary" admiral was a terrible leader.
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VanZandt92
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3:33p, 12/15/17
Crap I just realized that was Del Toro. I kept looking at him trying to identify him. Duh
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42799862
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In reply to wangus12 • 3:34p, 12/15/17
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bobinator
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In reply to 42799862 • 3:35p, 12/15/17
AG
Our thing on the force projection thing is that it seems like a pretty handy trick that could have helped out several times in the past. Why is Snoke bothering to have fancy hologram projectors installed on all the ships if he could zip around in ghost mode?

Unless this is a skill somehow unique to Luke.
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wangus12
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3:39p, 12/15/17
AG
About to sit down for a 2nd viewing. Really looking forward to it still
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ramblin_ag02
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In reply to 42799862 • 3:39p, 12/15/17
AG
Quote:
This is something that's bothered me since the prequels: there just doesn't seem to be a coherent explanation of what the force is and how you train to use it across all of the moves after the OT. Midichlorians, the "balance," force projection, flying through the vacuum of space, etc. It's like they keep trying to add cool stuff to "the force" and are ruining it in the process because there's no clear definition of what it is.
I see your point, but in the original trilogy we had the force as the explanation for psychokinesis, mind control, clairvoyance, and lightning blasts. That's not exactly a categorical, consistent power. So I don't mind them branching it out a bit. We've also mostly seen what Jedi are trained to do with the force. We have little frame of reference for darkside powers or self-trained force users.
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americathegreat1492
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In reply to bobinator • 3:41p, 12/15/17
I honestly have to wonder if Rian ended up doing it because all the characters were just way to far away on way to many different planets from one another and he needed them to interact to move the plot forward.
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hurleyag
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3:42p, 12/15/17
AG
They were also inconsistent on who can see the projection. The first time Rey and Kylo see each other Luke can't. Then when Rey and Kylo "touch" hands Luke can see Kylo. Then everybody and their crystal dogs can see Luke.
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URDeparted
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In reply to hurleyag • 3:46p, 12/15/17
Might be wrong here, but I didn't take the Luke force projection to be the same as the Kylo/Rey Snoke lead force connection.
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