The ending was a hot mess.
*** SW: The Last Jedi - FULL SPOILERS BE IN HERE ***
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Last: 6 mo ago by Definitely Not A Cop
I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but I honestly think I disagree with you even more after this second post.
Like, all the Marvel movies have a theme, in some of them they basically mash you over the head with it. (All of the Iron Man movies.) Hell, in one of them they even convened the UN to discuss them.
The thing that I keep coming back to with this movie, and it was one of the biggest problems with the prequels, is that there's just too much. Too many characters that we don't really care about -- Phasma, Maz, the codebreaker (did he even have a name?), Rose's sister (who I think Poe said her name but don't remember it,) Holdo, Rose herself, frankly Chewie at this point seems more like a prop than a character, the evil BB unit (that literally did nothing even though it could see actual BB8 and somehow let BB8 steal a AT-ST, Hux..
The Canto Bight sequence itself was a good example of this, and it's why it felt like something out of the prequels. In fact it felt right out of the Revenge of the Sith when Obi Wan is riding that giant lizard around and then fought Grievuous.
Like if I'd have been a Disney exec and had a say in the movie, my main feedback would have been "do less." When in doubt, do less.
Like, all the Marvel movies have a theme, in some of them they basically mash you over the head with it. (All of the Iron Man movies.) Hell, in one of them they even convened the UN to discuss them.
The thing that I keep coming back to with this movie, and it was one of the biggest problems with the prequels, is that there's just too much. Too many characters that we don't really care about -- Phasma, Maz, the codebreaker (did he even have a name?), Rose's sister (who I think Poe said her name but don't remember it,) Holdo, Rose herself, frankly Chewie at this point seems more like a prop than a character, the evil BB unit (that literally did nothing even though it could see actual BB8 and somehow let BB8 steal a AT-ST, Hux..
The Canto Bight sequence itself was a good example of this, and it's why it felt like something out of the prequels. In fact it felt right out of the Revenge of the Sith when Obi Wan is riding that giant lizard around and then fought Grievuous.
Like if I'd have been a Disney exec and had a say in the movie, my main feedback would have been "do less." When in doubt, do less.
DanHo2010 said:
I'm starting to think a lot of you liked it not because it was good, but just because it served you a big helping of member grapes.
I don't know if it was a hot mess, but the kid with the broom looking up to the sky was just not a good Star Wars end scene.VanZandt92 said:
The ending was a hot mess.
Was there an after credits scene?
Yall really don't know what member grapes are? South Park? I really have to explain this?
It means you liked it just because it made you feel nostalgic while having little to no originality or value of its own.
It means you liked it just because it made you feel nostalgic while having little to no originality or value of its own.
I don't see your post as antagonistic, just a differing opinion...which this movie is certainly creating.
I'm not a Marvel fan and maybe I'm using the term "Marvelized" a bit too negatively than warranted. But to your point about the heap load of pointless characters....that's part of the visual clutter IMO.
I'm not a Marvel fan and maybe I'm using the term "Marvelized" a bit too negatively than warranted. But to your point about the heap load of pointless characters....that's part of the visual clutter IMO.
AGGies0311 said:
Was there an after credits scene?
Yes, it was a scene about a zoo animal that escaped its cage...
Nope. I had an annoying AMC broompusher yelling at the crowd that there was nothing after the credits, so I made sure to stick around to see the LucasFilm logo at the end, just to annoy him.AGGies0311 said:
Was there an after credits scene?
Farmer1906 said:
Who does that even mean?
I think he shares my view that the tone of the movie felt more like a Guardians of The Galaxy movie or the last Thor movie, just with Star Wars characters.
DanHo2010 said:
I also enjoy McDoubles, but that doesn't mean they're good.
Actually, that does mean they're good.
nikator said:double aught said:This just seems like a really odd take.nikator said:
one thing I loved was the movie putting know it all 20 somethings in their place. So many movies and books including Harry Potter, Wheel of Time and Game of Thrones have the world being saved by a bunch of 20 year old. Here Poe repeatedly got egg on his face and by sending out Finn to get the code breaker cost lives. The escape pod gambit would have worked without the code breaker ratting them out. Someone needs to give Poe a code red.
Also, Oscar Isaac (Poe) is nearly 40.
The actor may be 40,but he is presented as a young brash fighter pilot. After a bunch of movies where the young perfect hero can do no wrong... It is good to see them eff up from time to time and have someone else save the day. Q
Ultimately all of Poe and Flynn machinations were pissing in the wind. Someone else had to come and save their bacon. Hopefully it will give them some humility but it won't.
And it lead to that light speed kamikaze action so it was worth it.
It's still a dumb take from an old on Texags blaming the next generation when it was their generation who raised by the generation they like to complain about. All it would have taken is for haldo to take Poe and a few others into her confidance to have prevented the whole situation.
The comment would have been fine but he had to throw in the millennial angle when it should have just been hotheads in general regardless of age. And hey guess what, Star Wars was a part of this too with Luke Leia and Han. Hell Fisher was a teen in the first movie. I think this cast of characters are pretty much older in the movies than what the original three represented in their own
Except those were good movies.Champ Bailey said:
I think he shares my view that the tone of the movie felt more like a Guardians of The Galaxy movie or the last Thor movie, just with Star Wars characters.
I felt the first 10 minutes of the film came out of Andy's, from Toy Story, imagination.
Did anyone else do the Fan Event and get the Lucasfilm/Disney questionnaire to fill out?
"Why did you decide to come see this movie?"
"Daisy Ridley as Rey" - sure
"John Boyega as Finn" - sure
etc. etc. etc.
"Because it's from Disney" - uhh....
"Why did you decide to come see this movie?"
"Daisy Ridley as Rey" - sure
"John Boyega as Finn" - sure
etc. etc. etc.
"Because it's from Disney" - uhh....
Yep, didn't even know what that meant because I don't watch South Park.DanHo2010 said:
Yall really don't know what member grapes are? South Park? I really have to explain this?
It means you liked it just because it made you feel nostalgic while having little to no originality or value of its own.
Yeah, I may have to disagree with that. If anything, this movie took the most risks and while it had similar beats to ESB and ROTJ, it didn't follow a similar path like TFA did to ANH.
Plus, while I think Finn and Rose's story was largely unneeded bull****, Rey grew as a character, Luke passed on to.... the next plane of existence (?), Kylo has made a decision to go down a path that he can't abandon and also achieved something Vader never did, and the First Order decimated the Resistance.
Sure character growth wasn't as substantial as it was in the previous movies, but this movie is going to leave a mark on the Skywalker Star Wars Saga.
Not sure we are on the same page. I was saying I think a lot of people liked TFA because it made them feel nostalgic, and didn't like this one because it took more risks.
DanHo2010 said:
I'm pretty stunned at all the negative reactions. Not understanding at all. This was a generally well written, well acted, well produced Star Wars film. Like I said before, not perfect by any means, but not even close to a bad movie either. I for one did not think TFA was very good, because it was just a rehash of ANH, nearly frame for frame in a lot of ways. I'm starting to think a lot of you liked it not because it was good, but just because it served you a big helping of member grapes. Did I like/enjoy TFA? Of course I did. I watched it multiple times in theaters and it's in my regular Bluray rotation. I also enjoy McDoubles, but that doesn't mean they're good.
This issue I had with the writing and plot of this movie is that it didn't seem to follow TFA. The First Order is all over the place, their place in the Universe, their structure, and their actual power is never defined anywhere and appears to be in contrast with where we left off in TFA. What is the government that is being run? If the rebels aren't in power, and if all of the command chain for the First Order can go around chasing them, who the hell is running the 100s to 1000s of populated planets and do they not care about these two groups at all? At least in TFA we feel that the rebellion exists to fight a shadow war with The First Order which is a growing remnant of the old empire. But in this movie, if The New Order is the ruling group now how can the Supreme leader, multiple generals, lead right hand man of the supreme leader, and almost all of the top officers afford to spend a multi day chase of 3 ships and not have their power overthrown by other groups?
And on top of the structure issue, the over ineptness of the First Order command structure was to the point where they make the original storm troopers look like sharpshooters. How on earth could any of these people build out a large scale military? At least the Emperor was cunning and a shrewd leader. No one in the first order appears to have that capability, but somehow they magically have a large scale multifaceted military force with enough people to run multiple capital ships. (I mean seriously, the opening sequence had 3 capital ships sit and watch as slow ass bombers approached and destroyed their dreadnaught).
The First Order in this movie just seems like the writers and producers made them into wave their hands, don't look behind the curtain, generic bad guy. Nothing like the menace that the empire represented in the original trilogy.
That doesn't even mention that the story's plot line needed no interaction by Finn, Rey, and Luke (3 of your biggest 5 characters) to get to the ending that ultimately happened.
I leave that here, and won't get into my personal wants from this movie that didn't happen and left me disappointed.
My 8 year old son pointed out this morning (will confirm on second viewing): during Ren - Skywalker lightsaber battle, Luke did not make red footprints. (siap)
In defense of Leia's "superman" scene- it did set up Luke taking on the ATAT's - made me think he could survive the onslaught.
In summary - WOW! Not what I expected, and I hate to see Luke go. Contender with Empire.
(edited: so old, I mis-spelled 'siap')
In defense of Leia's "superman" scene- it did set up Luke taking on the ATAT's - made me think he could survive the onslaught.
In summary - WOW! Not what I expected, and I hate to see Luke go. Contender with Empire.
(edited: so old, I mis-spelled 'siap')
Yeah, let's take a look at your statement.DanHo2010 said:
Not sure we are on the same page. I was saying I think a lot of people liked TFA because it made them feel nostalgic, and didn't like this one because it took more risks.
Nostalgia-sureQuote:
It means you liked it just because it made you feel nostalgic while having little to no originality or value of its own
little to no originality or value- I'd venture that it was original and had value to the overall story
So unless you were saying that this movie didn't meet nostalgia expectation of people, then I'm going to have to disagree with your definition you provided for "member grapes". People here aren't hating this movie on a level of Battlefield Earth or something else that's equally hated. At worse these are very middle of the road reactions, didn't love it but didn't hate it.
The Leia flying through space bit really was bad.
The Ice Cream Kid said:
My 8 year old son pointed out this morning (will confirm on second viewing): during Ren - Skywalker lightsaber battle, Luke did not make red footprints. (saip)
That is true, they intentionally showed Kylo sliding on the salt and exposing the red ground twice while Luke did not
No, it doesn't. Preference does not equal quality.redd38 said:DanHo2010 said:
I also enjoy McDoubles, but that doesn't mean they're good.
Actually, that does mean they're good.
I wish Luke actually trained Rey. She is just going to have to read those jedi books by herself if she can actually read. I doubt they had decent schools in Jakku.
bobinator said:Except those were good movies.Champ Bailey said:
I think he shares my view that the tone of the movie felt more like a Guardians of The Galaxy movie or the last Thor movie, just with Star Wars characters.
Nope. Not unless you're a comic book fan.
That's exactly what I'm saying - a possible cause for the differing reactions to TFA and TLJ is that people liked TFA because it met their nostalgic expectations, and did not like TLJ because it did not.jabberwalkie09 said:Yeah, let's take a look at your statement.DanHo2010 said:
Not sure we are on the same page. I was saying I think a lot of people liked TFA because it made them feel nostalgic, and didn't like this one because it took more risks.Nostalgia-sureQuote:
It means you liked it just because it made you feel nostalgic while having little to no originality or value of its own
little to no originality or value- I'd venture that it was original and had value to the overall story
So unless you were saying that this movie didn't meet nostalgia expectation of people, then I'm going to have to disagree with your definition you provided for "member grapes". People here aren't hating this movie on a level of Battlefield Earth or something else that's equally hated. At worse these are very middle of the road reactions, didn't love it but didn't hate it.
This is another mechanics complaint from me. There were TIE fighters ALL OVER THE PLACE while that bomber was moving into position, and then it dropped the bombs and blew up the dreadnaught and they all vanished.IrishAg said:
No one in the first order appears to have that capability, but somehow they magically have a large scale multifaceted military force with enough people to run multiple capital ships. (I mean seriously, the opening sequence had 3 capital ships sit and watch as slow ass bombers approached and destroyed their dreadnaught).
The timing of the entire plot of this movie hinged on several GIANT first order ships following at (for lack of a star wars term...) impulse speed behind some resistance ships for like TWO WHOLE DAYS. They didn't think to maybe jump one of their other ships to light speed for like .01 seconds and get ahead of the Resistance ship? they just kept following them and shooting cannons at them because.... I dunno it was fun to watch them die a slow death?
I've never bought a comic book. And those were good movies.wesag said:bobinator said:Except those were good movies.Champ Bailey said:
I think he shares my view that the tone of the movie felt more like a Guardians of The Galaxy movie or the last Thor movie, just with Star Wars characters.
Nope. Not unless you're a comic book fan.
jabberwalkie09 said:I've never bought a comic book. And those were good movies.wesag said:bobinator said:Except those were good movies.Champ Bailey said:
I think he shares my view that the tone of the movie felt more like a Guardians of The Galaxy movie or the last Thor movie, just with Star Wars characters.
Nope. Not unless you're a comic book fan.
Compared to ANH? No they weren't.
I'm not a comic book fan and I really enjoyed them, as did seemingly a lot of other people.
I don't think bobinator liked the movie. Hopefully he posts more reasons why he didn't like it so we are certain of his opinion.
They should have lightsped those two other ships because the new order was only tracking the big rebel ship. The other two could have sped away out to nowhere.
Sorry, I thought this was a thread to talk out plot points of the movie? I'm just bringing up things that annoyed me to see if other people felt the same way, or perhaps maybe I missed something that would make these things make sense?
Then your definition was **** as it didn't meet the second half of the statement. It would have to meet both halves of that to be true. And judging by your response, it doesn't meet that bar.DanHo2010 said:That's exactly what I'm saying - a possible cause for the differing reactions to TFA and TLJ is that people liked TFA because it met their nostalgic expectations, and did not like TLJ because it did not.jabberwalkie09 said:Yeah, let's take a look at your statement.DanHo2010 said:
Not sure we are on the same page. I was saying I think a lot of people liked TFA because it made them feel nostalgic, and didn't like this one because it took more risks.Nostalgia-sureQuote:
It means you liked it just because it made you feel nostalgic while having little to no originality or value of its own
little to no originality or value- I'd venture that it was original and had value to the overall story
So unless you were saying that this movie didn't meet nostalgia expectation of people, then I'm going to have to disagree with your definition you provided for "member grapes". People here aren't hating this movie on a level of Battlefield Earth or something else that's equally hated. At worse these are very middle of the road reactions, didn't love it but didn't hate it.
Perhaps the difference here is that unlike TFA, TLJ had pacing and (maybe more) story issues.
We aren't talking about ANH are we? And ANH doesn't mean as much by itself unless it's couple with ESB and ROTJ and the revelations that come after it. Just like TFA doesn't mean as much without the revelation of what happened to Luke's Jedi Academy/Temple.wesag said:jabberwalkie09 said:I've never bought a comic book. And those were good movies.wesag said:bobinator said:Except those were good movies.Champ Bailey said:
I think he shares my view that the tone of the movie felt more like a Guardians of The Galaxy movie or the last Thor movie, just with Star Wars characters.
Nope. Not unless you're a comic book fan.
Compared to ANH? No they weren't.
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