It will all be fine when we trade Ariza, a draft pick, and Beverly for Kevin Love.

The day I have 500 posts on a spurs thread in a matter of days is the day I put a bullet in my skull.

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The day I have 500 posts on a spurs thread in a matter of days is the day I put a bullet in my skull.

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Can't blame them. Everyone just wants to talk about the Rockets all of the time.

Spurs are boring. Rockets are interesting. Hard to blame me.

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It is odd how Spurs fans felt so called to tell Rockets fans that we vastly overhyped Parsons, and yet now that he is gone, you would think that we just let LeBron James walk out that door judging by some of their comments. It is a fascinating development

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+1 Well said.....

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Actual quote from Rockets fans in the last year:

Maggie:

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Parsons is better than ibaka and Leonard, but it's close because of durant.

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Maggie:

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I still think parsons is better than Kawhi. Parsons is an average defender. Remember, he shut down Durant twice and Kobe once last season. He's better offensively and our team looked like **** every time he wasn't playing this year.

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Taj:

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The thing about Parsons is that like Mag said, he is so important to this team. He makes players like Terrence Jones and D-Mo better with his passing/play making ability. Some things don't show up in the stat sheet

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Token:

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by the way, are there still morons who think kwahi leonard is better than chandler parsons? yahoo sports just called him a top 5 SF in the NBA

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Token:

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leonard can't score consistently

like i've been saying for a long time, he's tayshaun prince part two.

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Aggie1906:

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Chandler is better. Plain and simple. If you think otherwise then you settle for deeznuts on your tonsils.

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Hickory High:

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Diet, Leonard has had, by many accounts, a pedestrian year even when he isn't injured. Wanna know why he isn't called upon to score as much? Because he hasn't improved from last year and can't do it. This isn't even me talking as a Rockets fan, it's the national perception. You really need to learn how to be more objective.

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Mr. Bond:

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Leonard has to prove a lot more to me (longevity) wise before he's a star. Everyone knows the Trevor Ariza rule

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I'm interested in hearing you share the Trevor Ariza Rule with us again, Mr. Bond.

Mr. Bond:

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Parsons and Leonard are roughly a wash at this point.

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Frok:

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One difference between Parsons and Leonard is that Parsons is the emotional leader of his team. He was also a pretty good recruiter during the off-season.

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Aggie1906:

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Parsons is going to require a big piece in return and a willingness to take some of our big $$ guys to make the deal work. He's too valuable to this team and for the money he's making.

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gougler08

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Parsons > > Kawhi

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Also found my fatality on Simplebay. I forgot about that. Laugh/cry.


But now, Ariza and Parsons are basically a wash? Come on Rockets fans. Just admit you downgraded.

This post by Bonfired is pretty accurate IMHO.

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Parsons is kind of like spackle...if there's something that's breaking down a little, he can fill in and smooth it out...score, rebound, pass and a serviceable defender. All for under $1,000,000 this season, too.

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Also good post by Ryan.

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Honestly I think Parsons and Kawhi are about the same. Kawhi is decidedly better defensively while Parsons is better offensively, but neither is poor on the other side of the ball either.

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And just for fun:


George07:

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Wow the spurs fans are in denial now. You may have noticed that the rockets got a new player that's kinda good this year. You may also have noticed that the rockets are 3-0 against your team. Good luck getting out of the first round this year when you can't even beat a good team. What's that record against top teams? 1-12? But yeah, the spurs are better, keep telling yourself that.

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Tremble:

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It's all part of the plan, guys. Tank relentlessly against any team with a pulse in the regular season and then when they least expect it, POW, ZOW, right in the kisser.

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Pretty good plan.

Mr. Bond:
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Leonard has to prove a lot more to me (longevity) wise before he's a star. Everyone knows the Trevor Ariza rule


I'm interested in hearing you share the Trevor Ariza Rule with us again, Mr. Bond.

Mr. Bond:
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Parsons and Leonard are roughly a wash at this point.




I couldn't tell you when I posted these because I don't have the time on my hands that apparently you do. However I'll address them, The Ariza rule is anointing someone a star because they had a flash in the pan performance during a playoff run. Ariza is a good player, not great like people thought he was going to be. Leonard truly progressed this season, more so in the second half and playoff run. If you do more research on my post you'll find where I said Leonard was the superior player to Parsons since that specific post.

Wow, I posted those over a year ago..... And at that time my post were 100% accurate

It was last seasons' off-season thread about Howard signing with the Rockets.

Howard said he wanted to be part of a big three, and you and the rest of the Rockets fans swore up and down that Harden+Howard+Parsons was a big three and probably the second best big three in the league.

I need a date & time because that first quote by me was pretty funny.

Most were about a year ago. Some were in the playoff threads.

Texags Search is much, much improved.

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Its a simple debate. Take no risks, keep the team for one final stand that might end up in the 2nd round or conference finals (with hot shooting). Or take a risk and be a title contender for the next 5 years. He took a risk and maybe that means a first round exit. So we're worse than we were last year.

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False dichotomy.

The Rockets were a solid team. They got bounced in the first round, but did it in the 4/5 matchup in the West. Get a different matchup or catch your opponent on an off night and Houston could easily have advanced. That's probably as far as they were going, but they were also a "super team" in its first year. Everyone underestimates continuity. The Rockets would have been better this year just by showing up with the same core. Add one or two role players to the mix and they could be significantly better, which means moving into that Dallas/LAC tier of potential contenders. The difference between a good team and a top 5 team isn't as much as you think... and at the same time is even more than you realize.

Morey thinks that the highest probability way to win is to land three superstars via blockbuster deals. I think a higher probability way (especially if you have a good front office) is to create a stable core around 1-2 superstars and then make smallish personnel changes each year as you preserve the culture, develop and add great role players, get more comfortable with each other, and adjust the offense and defense to get better and better each year. I'm not sure you can get out of the West without a pretty deep rotation these days.

All these blockbuster deals seem like a sign of weakness. They don't trust their ability to evaluate players and build teams, so they are going to spend megabucks on proven stars to create top heavy rosters hoping to catch lightning in a bottle.

With Bosh specifically they were making a one year gamble. There was no future for that team; win or lose, they were coming apart next offseason. Given that even Lebron, Bosh, and good Wade took a year to get it together, that doesn't seem like a smart gamble. If they had held on to Parsons at his old deal, they would have kept the core together this year whether they got Bosh or not AND it would have been easier to have a sustainable team in subsequent years since they wouldn't have had to lock up 72 million dollars in four players. Move Lin and Asik via trades and you probably get some nice pieces to put around one of the best 123(4) punches in the league.

I've always liked Parsons, I wish we had signed Parsons. So why are you shocked that I posted that I thought Parsons was good? Plus this was before the playoffs this past year which big time changed my opinion of both players.

I still think Morey made the right move in not matching. And I never said Ariza wasn't a downgrade.

But I guess you get an E for effort by searching all past posts to try to make us look bad.









[This message has been edited by frok (edited 7/14/2014 2:30p).]

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Morey didn't have the option of having Parsons for a number of years at a reasonable salary

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I think a reasonable salary for Parsons would have been around $8M-$10M annually for 3-4 years. That was definitely a possibility with making him RFA this year, as opposed to zero chance next year as UFA.

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Chandler does fit that profile.

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Not at 1 year, $965k. Teams trading big-time players, when asking for young players back, want young players back that are not expiring for the most part. Again, I provided 2 examples with the Carmelo and Deron Williams trades, which is the kind of trade the rockets would have been looking for. Teams in that position holding a coveted asset don't trade them for 3 expirings and a couple of draft picks, they just don't.

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Had Morey kept Parsons this year on that 900k contract, he still would have had max room when he moved Linsik, but he would have had Parsons, still, too.

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Making Parsons a RFA did not cost the rockets the ability to add another max player this year (i.e. Bosh). So let's say Parsons comes back next year at $965k. Your team is still Howard-Jones-Parsons-Harden-Beverly, which isn't cracking the West's top echelon. The rockets have a 3-year window here with Howard and Harden to win a championship, they need to add another major piece. Parsons at 1 year $965k doesn't help them get that piece because that was depressing his trade value attractiveness, as I explained previously by showing examples regarding how these blockbuster trades typically work.

Just ignore him people. No matter how many times someone explains only t morey was doing he won't shut up because he doesn't agree.

It's like trying to argue with some one who is super religious only because that's what their parents and the church they grew up going to told them. Different opinions are completely wrong and retarded.

Everyone moved on while I was writing my novel.

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I've always liked Parsons, I wish we had signed Parsons. So why are you shocked that I posted that I thought Parsons was good? Plus this was before the playoffs this past year which big time changed my opinion of both players.

I still think Morey made the right move in not matching.

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I think Morey made the right move in not matching. I think he made the wrong move in letting Parsons be a RFA.

If you look at the quote I was responding to, Rockets fans are trying to make it seem like the Spurs fans have changed their positions on Parsons. Clearly, it is the other way around. I always liked Parsons and thought he was a very good fit in Houston and think he will be a very good fit in Dallas. None of that has changed for me, nor am I surprised that Rockets fans liked him.

The comments saying Ariza is basically a wash with Parsons do surprise me, but I don't think you are making that one.

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leonard can't score consistently

like i've been saying for a long time, he's tayshaun prince part two.

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Wow the spurs fans are in denial now. You may have noticed that the rockets got a new player that's kinda good this year. You may also have noticed that the rockets are 3-0 against your team. Good luck getting out of the first round this year when you can't even beat a good team. What's that record against top teams? 1-12? But yeah, the spurs are better, keep telling yourself that.

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Here is a pretty spot on article from NBA.com

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Now Parsons walks up I-45 to Dallas for $46 million over three years. Simple gaffe.

The Rockets could have kept Parsons for the upcoming season for the final year on his rookie contract, roughly $964,000. But the team chose not to pick up the option in order to keep the right to match any offer that he received. Then they didn’t.

Nice season the Rockets had there in 2013-14. They won 54 games, grabbed the No. 4 seed in the Western Conference and were feeling pretty good about themselves until nobody covered Damian Lillard with 0.9 seconds to play.

But when the heartache of that Game 6 loss and sudden ouster in Portland finally faded, there was reason to look ahead. Until this. Now the Rockets are back on the hamster wheel making no progress.

No offense to Trevor Ariza, but he doesn’t move the Rockets up in the West pecking order, doesn’t move the overall program forward.

Then again, the Rockets don’t actually have a program other than to keep swapping names and players and draft choices and salary cap spaces like trading cards. For a fellow who looked like the smartest guy in the room last summer when he landed Howard, Morey celebrates the first anniversary of that coup by telling Houston fans: “See you next summer. Please.”

While the Spurs win their fifth championship in 15 years by building a sense of family and togetherness, the Rockets are like the guy dealing three-card monte on the sidewalk, looking to just outsmart all of the other saps. They’re not looking for a path to long-term stability and success, just shortcuts to the top.

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http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2014/07/13/rockets-back-to-spinning-wheels-again/?ls=iref:nbahpts

I know Morey's track record. He was able to acquire Harden via trade and he was able to convince Dwight to come to Houston last season. I'm sure he's pissed that the Bosh experiment didn't work. But I also bet he has a few alternative plans to make this team better. I'll reserve judgement until the offseason is completely over and next season begins

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While the Spurs win their fifth championship in 15 years by building a sense of family and togetherness, the Rockets are like the guy dealing three-card monte on the sidewalk, looking to just outsmart all of the other saps. They’re not looking for a path to long-term stability and success, just shortcuts to the top.

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This ain't the late 90s or early 2000s. Using the Spurs as an example on how to model your franchise in today's world is a fallacy. The Spurs had a perfect confluence of Buford, Popovich, Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili. All had the perfect personalities, egos, and the openness to believe in Popovich and what he was trying to achieve. With that core, the Spurs had the luxury to find the role players that fit their system and way of thinking. I don't think you can duplicate that type of longevity and success in today's NBA.

I literally can't wait until Pop, Duncan, and Manu are gone. It's been a nice long run for the Spurs.. but it will be interesting to see what their true future is like. I have no idea when it will be.. but I'm ready to see them actually endure some hardship as fans.

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I think a reasonable salary for Parsons would have been around $8M-$10M annually for 3-4 years. That was definitely a possibility with making him RFA this year, as opposed to zero chance next year as UFA.

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I think you clearly underestimated his value. It would be fantastic to lock up a guy that can put up 17/5/5 at 8mm, but I think his value is probably closer to 12mm and Dallas overpaid at 15.

Houston had the option of trying to get him a contract extension this year in his last year as well.

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Not at 1 year, $965k. Teams trading big-time players, when asking for young players back, want young players back that are not expiring for the most part. Again, I provided 2 examples with the Carmelo and Deron Williams trades, which is the kind of trade the rockets would have been looking for. Teams in that position holding a coveted asset don't trade them for 3 expirings and a couple of draft picks, they just don't.

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Pau Gasol trade. A few no-names, euro contract, draft picks and ending contract.

Milwaukee traded Ray Allen for Gary Payton's expiring contract as well as Desmond Mason's expiring contract.

Seattle traded Ray Allen for the #5 pick and cap filler.

But the bottom line is that keeping him for next year keeps you from having to fill that position this year, gives you max space this year and next year and gives you the option to try to sign and trade him next year.

He was much more valuable to be on his cheap contract and kept around for next year. Morey limited his options and put himself on the defensive.

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Making Parsons a RFA did not cost the rockets the ability to add another max player this year (i.e. Bosh). So let's say Parsons comes back next year at $965k. Your team is still Howard-Jones-Parsons-Harden-Beverly, which isn't cracking the West's top echelon.

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No, but it cost them cap space next year with the Ariza deal. So Houston no longer has max cap space next year, but they would have if they had kept Parsons.

Plus, they could have used their cap space to fill needs rather than replace Parsons this year. Instead, they replaced Parsons with a player that isn't as good as Parsons and pretty much nothing else so far two weeks into free agency.

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Parsons at 1 year $965k doesn't help them get that piece because that was depressing his trade value attractiveness, as I explained previously by showing examples regarding how these blockbuster trades typically work.

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You showed two trades. But the Rockets lost out on the option of signing and trading Parsons and they regressed as a team by using cap space to fill Parson's position.

That's not very nice.

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Nice season the Rockets had there in 2013-14. They won 54 games, grabbed the No. 4 seed in the Western Conference and were feeling pretty good about themselves until nobody covered Damian Lillard with 0.9 seconds to play.

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Wonder who that was.

Stop bringing up Damian ****ing Lillard

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I literally can't wait until Pop, Duncan, and Manu are gone. It's been a nice long run for the Spurs.. but it will be interesting to see what their true future is like. I have no idea when it will be.. but I'm ready to see them actually endure some hardship as fans.

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+1

And honestly just Pop. The other two are fading away, albeit slowly. Pop is what makes that thing go and it sure showed this year.

[This message has been edited by Look Out Below (edited 7/14/2014 3:09p).]

I'm also a Saints fan and an Aggie. I've endured plenty of sports hardships.

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Nice season the Rockets had there in 2013-14. They won 54 games, grabbed the No. 4 seed in the Western Conference and were feeling pretty good about themselves until nobody covered Damian Lillard with 0.9 seconds to play.

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Wonder who that was.

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That last play was an epic failure from the top on down...either Parsons was asleep at the wheel and consequently got a late start, or he was covering for someone else's botched assignment. James Harden was directing traffic before the ball was inbounded, which is as ironic as it gets.

If you put aside the original decision to not to exercise the team option on Parsons (Morey took a calculated gamble and lost), I think the Rockets came out ahead of the Mavs in terms of Ariza for $8MM vs Parsons for $15MM.

IMO, Ariza is a better fit with Harden on the wing. He can guard the other team's best player. He's obviously not as skilled offensively, but he's no slouch either. And he's half the price.

Glad the Rockets can still have financial flexibility moving forward. I still think Rondo would be a great fit for this team (maybe a better fit than Bosh in a PG rich western conference).

Speaking of the bearded one...I think part of the reason, aside from abject unwillingness, that his defense is so bad is simple conditioning. The dude needs to get in better shape. Not that I'm one to throw stones, mind you, but I'm also not being paid 15 million a year to play to the best of my ability. Problem is, McHale isn't going to call him a little fatass and light a fire under his butt.

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IMO, Ariza is a better fit with Harden on the wing. He can guard the other team's best player. He's obviously not as skilled offensively, but he's no slouch either. And he's half the price.

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I've said it before, but when you already have big scorers in Howard and Harden, it's not as important to have a third scoring creator in the starting lineup. Having an Ariza who can play effectively off the ball is fine. It would be nice for them to find a decent scorer off the bench though.

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I've said it before, but when you already have big scorers in Howard and Harden, it's not as important to have a third scoring creator in the starting lineup

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which is why it made no sense to go for the home run instead of bringing Parsons back for $900k

I believe Morey did what he did in order to get Parsons for 10-12 a year and then trade him. Obviously the Mavs contract made that impossible

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The dude needs to get in better shape. Not that I'm one to throw stones, mind you, but I'm also not being paid 15 million a year to play to the best of my ability. Problem is, McHale isn't going to call him a little fatass and light a fire under his butt.

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