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Makes my point pretty well, I think. You guys think I'm saying an extreme I'm not, and all you're focusing on are allegedly pure and innocent people arrested at the other restaurant.

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i'm not. i'm talking about someone i know who was at twin peaks. he was on his motorcycle riding with some people from his austin club who are clean and sober. They saw a bunch of bikes at TP, so they decided to stop and have lunch before heading back to austin. He was arrested and held on a $1M bond. He didn't do anything, wasn't there for a meeting, and doesn't have a connection to the bandidos or cossacks, though he might have back in his rougher days.

he still isn't sure if he's going to be allowed to return to work, and he's now facing visitation/custody rights issues for his kids.

When police have video evidence of people not participating in a crime and they have to spend weeks or months in jail because of a bull**** generalize probable cause affidavit and a lazy ass police force that would not write a specific probable cause detailing what that person actually did as you will find with every other case ever, I don't call that the system working. To any intelligent, rational human, just because you ride a similar vehicle or wear similar clothes as a gang member, it does not make you a gang member nor does it give the police probable cause to arrest you. If the bloods decided to have a shoot out with the crips at Fuddruckers, and I happened to be at Fuddruckers wearing a Dodgers hat, no one would assume I was a part of the shootout. But somehow reasonableness and thoughtfulness was thrown out the window with this case.

I don't care about the Bandidos and Cossacks being thrown in jail. I care about everyone else there, especially the people that did not participate and actively removed themselves from the situation.

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he still isn't sure if he's going to be allowed to return to work, and he's now facing visitation/custody rights for his kids.

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This is why "the system is working just slowly" isn't an adequate response. A lot of these guys only get paid if they work, share custody of their kids, don't have a whole lot of financial liquidity, don't have jobs where they've built up 6 weeks of vacation for when they get swept up by overly cautious law enforcement during a mass arrest, etc. For them - people who are completely innocent of any wrongdoing - the delay in getting this mess sorted out is absolutely life-changing and won't be able to just be sorted out eventually because the damage will have already been done. It can permanently affect their financial futures and relationships - and they did NOTHING ILLEGAL. They didn't break any laws. Having lunch with the Bandidos may not be smart, but it's not a crime. This is a case where the process itself has become the punishment. That is NOT the way our legal system is supposed to work and I'm dumbfounded that there are people who seem to be okay with it because they think the victims should have a better class of friends. They are American citizens and they have rights.

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he still isn't sure if he's going to be allowed to return to work, and he's now facing visitation/custody rights for his kids.

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This is why "the system is working just slowly" isn't an adequate response. A lot of these guys only get paid if they work, share custody of their kids, don't have a whole lot of financial liquidity, don't have jobs where they've built up 6 weeks of vacation for when they get swept up by overly cautious law enforcement during a mass arrest, etc. For them - people who are completely innocent of any wrongdoing - the delay in getting this mess sorted out is absolutely life-changing and won't be able to just be sorted out eventually because the damage will have already been done. It can permanently affect their financial futures and relationships - and they did NOTHING ILLEGAL. They didn't break any laws. Having lunch with the Bandidos may not be smart, but it's not a crime.

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Right on the money.

Plus whenever they apply for a job for the rest of the life, when asked if they have ever been arrested and charged with a felony, they now get to get to check yes.

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The system is working. It's slow. But it's working.

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No it isn't working. They never should have been arrested in the first place. If the cops can't find probably cause they can hold you for 48 hours then they have to cut you loose. Instead they used a blanket and poorly backed probable cause affidavit to charge them all. The JP (who is an ex cop) accepted the cops BS and lazy/sloppy police work. As an added bonus he ILLEGALLY set the bonds at $1,000,000 "to send a message."

If that's your idea of a working system, I don't want to live under your system.

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The wink and a nod by the judge is something that was discussed earlier in the thread and I brought up as something that bugs me. The judge is an ex cop. Within our system, judges reside in the realm of the judiciary branch (obviously) and cops are law enforcement, which lies on the executive side of the triangle. They have checks and balances against one another. A good judge makes a cop do his job. This requires gathering and presenting evidence. A good judge reviews the PC affidavit. A good judge doesn't sign everything the cops bring him. A good judge tells the cops to go home and finish their homework. I think a judge that's an ex cop probably tends to still wear his cop hat. I think he still thinks like a cop. I think he's probably too willing to side with the cops. I think he lets the cops get away with things. I think he has a desire to be the kind of judge he wishes he dealt with when he was a cop, and eliminate the things judges did to him and his colleagues that he didn't like. I think he wants to make it easier for the cops to put people away.

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he still isn't sure if he's going to be allowed to return to work, and he's now facing visitation/custody rights for his kids.

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This is why "the system is working just slowly" isn't an adequate response. A lot of these guys only get paid if they work, share custody of their kids, don't have a whole lot of financial liquidity, don't have jobs where they've built up 6 weeks of vacation for when they get swept up by overly cautious law enforcement during a mass arrest, etc. For them - people who are completely innocent of any wrongdoing - the delay in getting this mess sorted out is absolutely life-changing and won't be able to just be sorted out eventually because the damage will have already been done. It can permanently affect their financial futures and relationships - and they did NOTHING ILLEGAL. They didn't break any laws. Having lunch with the Bandidos may not be smart, but it's not a crime. This is a case where the process itself has become the punishment. That is NOT the way our legal system is supposed to work and I'm dumbfounded that there are people who seem to be okay with it because they think the victims should have a better class of friends. They are American citizens and they have rights.

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POTD Material.

From the story linked above:

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"They started treating people at the scene as criminals from the very beginning," said Bishop. "They were given $1 million bonds and held without any reason to believe that most of them had committed any crime."

Waco police deny the allegations and say their officers were in the right. In fact, they've said they were being fired upon and returned fire to both protect themselves and the other innocent people.

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The police are saying there were innocent people present? I was under the impression that they believe that everyone was guilty.

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http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/local/texas-news/2015/06/11/twin-peaks-shooting-police-witness/71090750/

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A decorated Iraq war veteran, who was jailed after the Twin Peaks shootout in Waco, is telling an alarming version of the deadly encounter.

He says not only was he wrongly imprisoned for three weeks, he says he witnessed police firing their weapons in an "aimless" assault into a crowd of bikers, nine of whom were killed.

Devoll says he was a passenger in a pickup that had just pulled into the Twin Peaks parking lot, when he heard gunfire.

"I heard a few rounds of handgun fire and then I would say an overbearing suppressing fire of M-4 rounds," said Devoll.

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Devoll was released on 25k bond, so likely not apart of any gang.

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come on guitarsoup, Devoll was there. He MUST be a duck. guilty as charged.

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http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/local/texas-news/2015/06/11/twin-peaks-shooting-police-witness/71090750/

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A decorated Iraq war veteran, who was jailed after the Twin Peaks shootout in Waco, is telling an alarming version of the deadly encounter.

He says not only was he wrongly imprisoned for three weeks, he says he witnessed police firing their weapons in an "aimless" assault into a crowd of bikers, nine of whom were killed.

Devoll says he was a passenger in a pickup that had just pulled into the Twin Peaks parking lot, when he heard gunfire.

"I heard a few rounds of handgun fire and then I would say an overbearing suppressing fire of M-4 rounds," said Devoll.

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Devoll was released on 25k bond, so likely not apart of any gang.

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come on guitarsoup, Devoll was there. He MUST be a duck. guilty as charged.

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He was a passenger in a pickup. Probably was a Ford F-150 Harley Davidson edition. Gang symbols. Quack Quack, mother ****ers!

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come on guitarsoup, Devoll was there. He MUST be a duck. guilty as charged.

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Why don't they just weigh everyone. If he weighs the same as a duck, he must be made of wood.

And therefore a witch!

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This is not black and white.

. . .

The system is working. It's slow. But it's working. They're sorting through and figuring out who the real ducks are.

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You're completely and absolutely wrong about this. It's not even a close call. You repeating it over-and-over doesn't change that fact.

Modern American jurisprudence has made it unequivocally clear that setting bail "to send a message" is unconstitutional. Yet the JP admitted publicly that he did just that. Black and white, not gray. Likewise, rounding up 170+ people with absolutely no probable cause is unconstitutional. That is what happened, here. Black and white, not gray. Holding all of those people for weeks on excessive bail is unconstitutional. Black and white, not gray.

Your "if it walks like a duck" test is great, I guess, but it's not the law (thank Christ). And even if it were, there were a great many people who did not have flippers that got to rot in jail anyway. You coming here and saying "law enforcement disagrees" doesn't change any of that. The fact that they "disagree" is why they're going to be in serious hot water when all of this is sorted out. That's the entire ****ing point.

This is not rocket science, this is common, everyday jurisprudence. The folks pointing this out are not some crazy gang of liberal psychos, they're Americans who value the freedoms that the Constitution provides. Taking this "if it walks like a duck" approach is about the furthest thing from American you can get. It shocks me - and, frankly, pisses me off - that so many of you are taking this stance. The freaking Berlin Wall fell decades ago, and the Soviets lost. If you want to go back to their police state, fine . . . just do it somewhere else. Here in America, we value individual rights.

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he still isn't sure if he's going to be allowed to return to work, and he's now facing visitation/custody rights for his kids.

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This is why "the system is working just slowly" isn't an adequate response. A lot of these guys only get paid if they work, share custody of their kids, don't have a whole lot of financial liquidity, don't have jobs where they've built up 6 weeks of vacation for when they get swept up by overly cautious law enforcement during a mass arrest, etc. For them - people who are completely innocent of any wrongdoing - the delay in getting this mess sorted out is absolutely life-changing and won't be able to just be sorted out eventually because the damage will have already been done. It can permanently affect their financial futures and relationships - and they did NOTHING ILLEGAL. They didn't break any laws. Having lunch with the Bandidos may not be smart, but it's not a crime. This is a case where the process itself has become the punishment. That is NOT the way our legal system is supposed to work and I'm dumbfounded that there are people who seem to be okay with it because they think the victims should have a better class of friends. They are American citizens and they have rights.

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"The system working just slowly" isn't an adequate response because that's not the system. These anti-American, pro-Police State communists on this thread don't care about the system because they are under the misapprehension that it can never work against them. It can. Regardless, one of our fundamental rights in this country - the rights paid for in the blood of real patriots - is the right to a speedy trial. There is nothing "speedy" about booking and holding 170+ people on trumped-up charges for weeks at a time.

If the system works slowly, the system doesn't work. That's why there are supposed to be checks and balances like PC affidavits and judicial review. When they're ignored, we all lose . . . not just the poor saps sitting in jail for weeks at a time for absolutely no reason.

9 people died, 18 shot, tons of suspects. We can belly ache online, but the cops did about as good as they could do under the circumstances.