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Gunfight at the Twin Peaks [Staff Warning on page 47]

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BoerneGator
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In reply to The Anchor • 8:23a, 6/7/15
AG
quote:
quote:
Condescension duly noted. What does my "curiosity" have to do with my post?


Condescending? I think you read a little too much into my post. I just gave you my opinion. Now, if I had use some eye rolling emoticon (or whatever they're called) then I could see you thinking I was being condescending.

And it seems to me (myself included) that the majority of people want to see the video out of curiosity more than anything else. And that's my opinion.
I read nothing into your post. Perhaps you didn't mean "my" curiosity, but yours (and others), as you allude to in your last paragraph above. I cannot read you mind; only what you write. So when your opinion pretends to speak for me, you are on thin ice. My interest has less to do with curiosity and more to do with what Sasappis has so eloquently described above.

While I want to have confidence in the integrity and professionalism of our public servants, we both know things can get sideways in a hurry, and the sooner such is ruled out (or exposed), the better for all concerned. Perhaps we don't see this issue the same way, but I'm not the one conflating public curiosity with its right to know/access to information.
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Tyrion Lannister
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In reply to BoerneGator • 8:49a, 6/7/15
quote:
From the article techno posted:

quote:
The video clearly shows Bandidos executing Cossacks and Cossacks executing Bandidos, some at point-blank range," Jarrett said. "The facts and circumstances of this case are so extraordinary and so different from anything we have ever dealt with, we believe adequate bonds need to be in place to ensure the safety of this community."


What possible legitimate reason is there for refusing to release this video to the public?



I'll type this slowly so some of you can understand this. You have no right to see this video. It is evidence in NINE murders. Several people will be executed by the State of Texas as a result of these NINE murders.

A release of the video before charging anyone with murder would be the wet dream of the defense attorneys that will represent the murders. The blood sucking attorneys will bill these cases for a decade or more.


None of you are special snowflakes. Rules of evidence, traffic laws, and burn bans apply to you and everyone else.
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BoerneGator
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In reply to Tyrion Lannister • 9:25a, 6/7/15
AG
Sorry, but your slow typing put me right to sleep, and I musta missed your point.

There were indeed nine killed that day, but it's not yet been determined if all were murdered. Meanwhile, can there be much doubt that more than a few innocent folks may have been swallowed up in this event? That is what is driving my interest.

I fail to see how video showing what took place interferes with the pursuit of justice. Perhaps you can type a little faster and actually offer some logic and or law to make your case. I want the guilty prosecuted and the innocent freed. My "curiosity" does not supersede those two priorities.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Tyrion Lannister • 10:13a, 6/7/15
AG
quote:
A release of the video before charging anyone with murder would be the wet dream of the defense attorneys that will represent the murders. The blood sucking attorneys will bill these cases for a decade or more.
I would tend to believe that releasing evidence of guilt of the defendant would help the prosecution more than the defense.

I doubt many if any of the people that eventually go to trial have the money to pay the blood sucking attorneys for a decade. Especially if they can't make bail.
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8T2
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10:21a, 6/7/15
It's good to see some people still trust that government agents are only here to help.

I'll go back to my blood sucking now.
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The Anchor
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In reply to BoerneGator • 12:18p, 6/7/15
AG
quote:
quote:
quote:
Condescension duly noted. What does my "curiosity" have to do with my post?


Condescending? I think you read a little too much into my post. I just gave you my opinion. Now, if I had use some eye rolling emoticon (or whatever they're called) then I could see you thinking I was being condescending.

And it seems to me (myself included) that the majority of people want to see the video out of curiosity more than anything else. And that's my opinion.
I read nothing into your post. Perhaps you didn't mean "my" curiosity, but yours (and others), as you allude to in your last paragraph above. I cannot read you mind; only what you write. So when your opinion pretends to speak for me, you are on thin ice. My interest has less to do with curiosity and more to do with what Sasappis has so eloquently described above.

While I want to have confidence in the integrity and professionalism of our public servants, we both know things can get sideways in a hurry, and the sooner such is ruled out (or exposed), the better for all concerned. Perhaps we don't see this issue the same way, but I'm not the one conflating public curiosity with its right to know/access to information.


Im on thin ice? You're taking my comments WAY too personal.
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BoerneGator
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In reply to The Anchor • 1:07p, 6/7/15
AG
Figure of speech.

And I'll take your word that you simply misspoke and weren't referring to "my" curiosity; rather your own and others. Your opinion, which I do not disagree with, has little effect on my outlook regarding the propriety of the Public's "need to know". It doesn't exceed the right of the individual. Indeed, it helps to protect it, which is my first concern in this issue, despite the misunderstanding of my detractors.

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Ark03
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 1:14p, 6/7/15
AG
quote:
quote:
A release of the video before charging anyone with murder would be the wet dream of the defense attorneys that will represent the murders. The blood sucking attorneys will bill these cases for a decade or more.
I would tend to believe that releasing evidence of guilt of the defendant would help the prosecution more than the defense.

I doubt many if any of the people that eventually go to trial have the money to pay the blood sucking attorneys for a decade. Especially if they can't make bail.

Yes, it could strengthen the jurors' perceptions in the case, potentially in favor of the prosecution, which would give the defence a strong case to appeal.

Don't worry if the defendants don't have the money to bankroll a long trial; civil rights groups will be lining up for that opportunity.
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Tyrion Lannister
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In reply to 8T2 • 1:59p, 6/7/15
quote:
It's good to see some people still trust that government agents are only here to help.

I'll go back to my blood sucking now.



Everyone please remember that the prosecution has to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.



Defense attorneys do not have to prove anything other than how much to bill the client.
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BoerneGator
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In reply to Tyrion Lannister • 2:35p, 6/7/15
AG
This board is hardly dominated in thought or attitude by those overly sympathetic with the Defense Bar. No one here wants to see the guilty go unpunished. Rather, it seems to me the perceived threat is from overzealous LE, with good intentions, who may have crossed some lines. If the video is exculpatory for LE, why not indicate so? How does that benefit the Defense?
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The Anchor
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In reply to BoerneGator • 3:04p, 6/7/15
AG
quote:
This board is hardly dominated in thought or attitude by those overly sympathetic with the Defense Bar. No one here wants to see the guilty go unpunished. Rather, it seems to me the perceived threat is from overzealous LE, with good intentions, who may have crossed some lines. If the video is exculpatory for LE, why not indicate so? How does that benefit the Defense?


It's possible that this is still an ongoing investigation and the video is still being reviewed. Given the absolute chaos this was it wouldn't surprise me. There is so much to process in this case. A singular homicide takes weeks to process. I can't imagine how long (and cumbersome) this investigation must be.
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Potlicker
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In reply to Player To Be Named Later • 4:22p, 6/7/15
AG
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
That, coupled with some/many who should never have been arrested in the first place. But that issue has nothing to do with sharing information with the public that the public has both a right and a need to know (in order to maintain the public's confidence).


Im not defending any side here since I don't know the facts. It seems like WPD may have screwed up. But we don't have a "right" to see the video until it's made public. Your curiosity isn't a right.


But the question is when and how is it made public.

We have open records laws for a reason that allow the public to review the actions of public officials acting on out behalf. Those officers and troopers at that restaurant that day were there at our behest in our service. Accordingly their actions are subject to public review.


You're absolutely right. But is it at least possible to seat a jury and have a trial first? Or is solving things on the Internet more critical?


Seat a jury? Have a trial first? They can't even figure out who to charge with what and have slapped a blanket charge on everybody. The bond set to send a message was a joke.. If you can't see why folks would want the videos released I don't know what to tell you. There are folks still sitting in jail 3 weeks later that did absolutely nothing. It's a joke.
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Marlin39m
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In reply to Player To Be Named Later • 4:54p, 6/7/15
Player, staff doesn't like that phrase. You might want to edit. I got a strongly worded edit to my post for using that description for this thread.
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Player To Be Named Later
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In reply to Marlin39m • 6:01p, 6/7/15
AG
quote:
Player, staff doesn't like that phrase. You might want to edit. I got a strongly worded edit to my post for using that description for this thread.


It's pretty obvious that the Outdoors Forum is one of the most lightly and inconsistently moderated forums on TexAgs. This board had focused mainly on.......... Outdoors related topics.... for awhile now and it was better for it. But I guess every off season is required to have a certain number of these threads, that are dominated over by the same general cast of characters.
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BoerneGator
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In reply to Player To Be Named Later • 6:20p, 6/7/15
AG
quote:
quote:
Player, staff doesn't like that phrase. You might want to edit. I got a strongly worded edit to my post for using that description for this thread.


It's pretty obvious that the Outdoors Forum is one of the most lightly and inconsistently moderated forums on TexAgs. This board had focused mainly on.......... Outdoors related topics.... for awhile now and it was better for it. But I guess every off season is required to have a certain number of these threads, that are dominated over by the same general cast of characters.
What does that even mean? Dominated? This is a frickin discussion board. You're not obligated to participate, nor are their posting limits/restrictions. Don't be such a wuss. Why so defensive? No one's "out to get the police"! We should all want the truth and justice to prevail. I have no agenda, and doubt others do. I'm simply expecting transparency.

Either way, I'm almost certain WPD is not monitoring this thread, nor is the presiding judge, so what we say/do here is of little consequence. Except to the extent is makes us more aware and better citizens for it.

We're just sharing info and insight.
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10:05p, 6/9/15
8T2
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5:46p, 6/10/15
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/11/us/waco-texas-bikers-jailed-justice.html?_r=1

quote:
Matthew A. Clendennen, one of the nearly 180 bikers who were jailed after the deadly shootout here last month between rival biker gangs and the police, said he had one weapon on him during the melee a pocketknife with a two-inch blade that was a Christmas gift from his parents and that he uses as a screwdriver and box cutter at work.

Mr. Clendennen, 30, said he never pulled it out. When gunfire broke out in the parking lot of the Twin Peaks restaurant where hundreds of bikers had gathered, Mr. Clendennen said, he rushed from the restaurant's patio area to a hallway inside. He said that he crouched as gunshots echoed and that he never left the hallway.

"They just collectively labeled everybody there as a vicious gang member," Mr. Clendennen, a Baylor University graduate who owns a landscaping business in the Waco area, said on Monday, days after his release from jail. "They arrested us because of what we were wearing and where we were at. Because I was wearing a certain color vest, automatically in their eyes I was guilty. So much for innocent until proven guilty."
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Player To Be Named Later
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In reply to 8T2 • 8:02p, 6/10/15
AG
quote:
Because I was wearing a certain color vest, automatically in their eyes I was guilty. So much for innocent until proven guilty.


I get his point, but he still hasn't been proven guilty. Getting arrested doesn't mean you are guilty.

Now, if he had said "so much for needing probable cause before being arrested" he'd have a much better point.
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TexasRebel
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8:06p, 6/10/15
AG
Yeah, but at this point even being innocent is expensive.
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In reply to Player To Be Named Later • 8:27p, 6/10/15
TEXAS A and M
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8:38p, 6/10/15
This was all just a practice run for Jade Helm. I've heard that all those arrested were given injections against their will under the guise of vaccination. In reality, microchips were injected to track they like dogs.
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45-70Ag
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In reply to [removed post] • 9:13p, 6/10/15
AG
quote:
quote:
quote:
Because I was wearing a certain color vest, automatically in their eyes I was guilty. So much for innocent until proven guilty.


I get his point, but he still hasn't been proven guilty. Getting arrested doesn't mean you are guilty.

Now, if he had said "so much for needing probable cause before being arrested" he'd have a much better point.


A couple of weeks of his life, all of his lost income during that time, the damage to his reputation, a felony arrest on his record, legal fees, bail costs and mental anguish are a pretty steep price for his clothing choice. He gets none of that back irregardless if he is indicted, tried or convicted.



People can deny this all they want but if you're running with a criminal organization or a biker gang where some or all individuals commit various types of crimes, eventually you will be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

It's easily avoided, don't run with those who line to break the law.
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In reply to 45-70Ag • 9:16p, 6/10/15
45-70Ag
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9:22p, 6/10/15
AG
I guess my question should be is there anyone out of the group arrested that doesn't belong to a motorcycle club/biker gang?

If so, find another hobby and quit playing dress up
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In reply to 45-70Ag • 9:25p, 6/10/15
Guitarsoup
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In reply to 45-70Ag • 9:26p, 6/10/15
AG
quote:
I guess my question should be is there anyone out of the group arrested that doesn't belong to a motorcycle club/biker gang?

Yes. There were guys eating in the restaurant next door wearing harley t-shirts. Drove there in their Toyota Venza and don't own a bike and are not members of any club or gang.

At least one of the dead (possibly two) were not affiliated with any gang or club.

quote:

If so, find another hobby and quit playing dress up
There is nothing wrong with wearing leather and riding a motorcycle, unless you run into the gestapo that decides they don't like that.
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45-70Ag
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9:34p, 6/10/15
AG
All I'm saying is if you run with guys who belong to the Cossacks, bandidos or any other biker gang, eventually you will be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to 45-70Ag • 9:49p, 6/10/15
AG
quote:
All I'm saying is if you run with guys who belong to the Cossacks, bandidos or any other biker gang, eventually you will be at the wrong place at the wrong time.


What if you just happen to be eating fajitas within half a mile from them? Locked up for a month, pay thousands to an attorney, pay thousands to get out if jail.
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45-70Ag
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9:54p, 6/10/15
AG
That's not the same as running with them, being friends with them or associating with them.


How many from don Carlos are in jail?
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techno-ag
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In reply to 45-70Ag • 10:06p, 6/10/15
AG
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Because I was wearing a certain color vest, automatically in their eyes I was guilty. So much for innocent until proven guilty.


I get his point, but he still hasn't been proven guilty. Getting arrested doesn't mean you are guilty.

Now, if he had said "so much for needing probable cause before being arrested" he'd have a much better point.


A couple of weeks of his life, all of his lost income during that time, the damage to his reputation, a felony arrest on his record, legal fees, bail costs and mental anguish are a pretty steep price for his clothing choice. He gets none of that back irregardless if he is indicted, tried or convicted.



People can deny this all they want but if you're running with a criminal organization or a biker gang where some or all individuals commit various types of crimes, eventually you will be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

It's easily avoided, don't run with those who line to break the law.
Agreed. If you walk like a duck, dress like a duck, and quack like a duck, don't be surprised when you get locked up with all the other ducks when the duck stuff hits the fan.
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8T2
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10:14p, 6/10/15
And once again the proponents of the police state rush forward to claim that if you'll just give up your constitutional rights, you'll have no problems.

I am embarrassed for you people.
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8T2
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In reply to 45-70Ag • 10:15p, 6/10/15
quote:
I guess my question should be is there anyone out of the group arrested that doesn't belong to a motorcycle club/biker gang?

If so, find another hobby and quit playing dress up
I bet you drive a camry.
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SteveBott
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10:18p, 6/10/15
AG
8T agreed. I walk like an Ag I talk like an Ag and look like an Ag. If police say Ags are bad do I get arreasted for a month and forfeit 25k for being in Parking lot behind police? Hmm
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DannyDuberstein
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In reply to 8T2 • 10:23p, 6/10/15
AG
quote:
quote:
I guess my question should be is there anyone out of the group arrested that doesn't belong to a motorcycle club/biker gang?

If so, find another hobby and quit playing dress up
I bet you drive a camry.

Maybe he does, but at least it isn't impounded because his 46 inch waistband, mid-life crisis sack of jello ass was out playing dressup.
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SteveBott
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10:26p, 6/10/15
AG
Oh and I wear Ag gear 5 days a week. Just sayin.
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