No they didnt! They tossed everyone in jail on trumped up charges before they did their homework. The way the system is supposed to work, if you don't have PC based on evidence to charge after 48 hours you MUST cut them loose. If you gather evidence later then you get a warrant for their arrest and pick them up then! THAT is how the system works.
Gunfight at the Twin Peaks [Staff Warning on page 47]
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Last: 2 yr ago by rather be fishing
quote:They did a laughably piss poor job, and I am disappointed that any freedom loving American would even suggest that this level of ineptitude by our government agents is acceptable. And, given the huge number illegally arrested, we will get to watch Waco PD and McLennan County get embarrassed over and over again for the next year.
9 people died, 18 shot, tons of suspects. We can belly ache online, but the cops did about as good as they could do under the circumstances.
It should also be noted that filing dozens of false charges will not help convict the actual guilty suspects. The DA will be so bogged down trying to prop up the bad cases that he risks losing the important ones. Not to mention that every day that goes by, potential jurors become less impressed that the right suspects were charged, ruining their credibility.
quote:In the face of mounting evidence/suspicion that the cops may have created at least some of the "circumstances", your persistent cavalier attitude is perplexing.
...but the cops did about as good as they could do under the circumstances.
It's not perplexing if you've visited the Aggieland board and seen his posts about TAMU, Sharp, and everything else.
Just ignore him.
Just ignore him.
It just seems to me that a trunk load of GSR swab kits might have been quite useful in sorting out this situation.
quote:At least one guy said in his bail hearing that he was swabbed at the scene and he wasn't near the actual shooting.
It just seems to me that a trunk load of GSR swab kits might have been quite useful in sorting out this situation.
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quote:9 people died (at least some of whom died at the hands of the cops), so that's a reason to suspend the basic individual rights of United States Citizens?
9 people died, 18 shot, tons of suspects. We can belly ache online, but the cops did about as good as they could do under the circumstances.
Go back to Mother Russian, Comrade.
quote:It has yet to be decided how many or even if any were shot by police. If they were, it has yet to be determined if they were threatening others or not.quote:9 people died (at least some of whom died at the hands of the cops), so that's a reason to suspend the basic individual rights of United States Citizens?
9 people died, 18 shot, tons of suspects. We can belly ache online, but the cops did about as good as they could do under the circumstances.
Go back to Mother Russian, Comrade.
Honestly, so many of you ready to jump on the Internet lynch wagon based on hearsay and rumors is a little dissapointing. Not surprising, but dissapointing.
So when do we hear testimony from the dead?
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quote:Hearsay and rumors? That 170+ people at the scene were arrested, had their property impounded, thrown in jail with unreasonable bonds, and held for at least 2 weeks (some, much longer) is fact. Everyone agrees on these facts. Do you know what the words "hearsay" and "rumors" mean?quote:It has yet to be decided how many or even if any were shot by police. If they were, it has yet to be determined if they were threatening others or not.quote:9 people died (at least some of whom died at the hands of the cops), so that's a reason to suspend the basic individual rights of United States Citizens?
9 people died, 18 shot, tons of suspects. We can belly ache online, but the cops did about as good as they could do under the circumstances.
Go back to Mother Russian, Comrade.
Honestly, so many of you ready to jump on the Internet lynch wagon based on hearsay and rumors is a little dissapointing. Not surprising, but dissapointing.
You're just wrong. You couldn't be any more wrong if you tried. This is a nation of laws. That's not just a campaign slogan that gets trotted out every 4 years, it's a system that was established by men far greater than me or you, and defended through the blood, sweat and tears of men far greater than me and you for the last 239 years. And you're ****ting all over that system. But we're disappointing, right?
You either completely lack any semblance of critical thinking skills or are anti-American. Or both. Black and white, not gray.
quote:
Honestly, so many of you ready to jump on the Internet lynch wagon based on hearsay and rumors is a little dissapointing.
good to know that conversations with a co-worker who was there and arrested is considered hearsay and rumors. I'll let him know.
i've not posted all of what he's said/revealed, as its not my place to tell his story.
Since we are going full profiling mode, do you also steer clear of country bars with parking lots full of pickups? I've gotten in my fair share of trouble in those. In fact, more trouble than biker bars.
quote:
good to know that conversations with a co-worker who was there and arrested is considered hearsay and rumors. I'll let him know.
Actually, you talking about what your friend said is the definition of hearsay, I believe.
Do I personally steer clear of those?
No, but there, in my opinion, is also a low likelihood of major criminal activity going on there or going to occur there.
Sure there might be a bar fight and probably will be most weekend nights but the probability that some of those guys are involved with organized crime is pretty low.
Am I going to go to Galveston beach when they have/had the Kappa beach party? No, and that's for my own self-preservation. If you're dumb enough to think that just because you're not directly tied to or involved in the event or events that may/will/most likely play out you won't be affected by them then you need to wake up.
Should this be the case? NO, absolutely not. But while the world has changed a lot since we've walked the earth guilt by association has been around and will be around a long time. You a German living near a concentration camp during WW2? You're pretty much guilty of being a Nazi. Sure you might not heil Hitler, but you're complacent none the less.
Now if you were at TP before the bikers showed up and ordered food etc and then they all walk in??? Well you're sort of screwed. You can either get up and walk up or you can stay and enjoy your freedoms and rights bestowed to you by the BoR. You shouldn't have to leave or avoid a place just because XYZ decided to hold their get together there. Again though, it is about self preservation. You do what you feel is right and necessary. If that is staying there, then sadly as seen in this case you risk being associated with real and imagined criminals.
No, but there, in my opinion, is also a low likelihood of major criminal activity going on there or going to occur there.
Sure there might be a bar fight and probably will be most weekend nights but the probability that some of those guys are involved with organized crime is pretty low.
Am I going to go to Galveston beach when they have/had the Kappa beach party? No, and that's for my own self-preservation. If you're dumb enough to think that just because you're not directly tied to or involved in the event or events that may/will/most likely play out you won't be affected by them then you need to wake up.
Should this be the case? NO, absolutely not. But while the world has changed a lot since we've walked the earth guilt by association has been around and will be around a long time. You a German living near a concentration camp during WW2? You're pretty much guilty of being a Nazi. Sure you might not heil Hitler, but you're complacent none the less.
Now if you were at TP before the bikers showed up and ordered food etc and then they all walk in??? Well you're sort of screwed. You can either get up and walk up or you can stay and enjoy your freedoms and rights bestowed to you by the BoR. You shouldn't have to leave or avoid a place just because XYZ decided to hold their get together there. Again though, it is about self preservation. You do what you feel is right and necessary. If that is staying there, then sadly as seen in this case you risk being associated with real and imagined criminals.
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quote:Jesus Christ. My 7 year old is more capable of critical thinking - and without all the racism, to boot!
Do I personally steer clear of those?
No, but there, in my opinion, is also a low likelihood of major criminal activity going on there or going to occur there.
Sure there might be a bar fight and probably will be most weekend nights but the probability that some of those guys are involved with organized crime is pretty low.
Am I going to go to Galveston beach when they have/had the Kappa beach party? No, and that's for my own self-preservation. If you're dumb enough to think that just because you're not directly tied to or involved in the event or events that may/will/most likely play out you won't be affected by them then you need to wake up.
Should this be the case? NO, absolutely not. But while the world has changed a lot since we've walked the earth guilt by association has been around and will be around a long time. You a German living near a concentration camp during WW2? You're pretty much guilty of being a Nazi. Sure you might not heil Hitler, but you're complacent none the less.
Now if you were at TP before the bikers showed up and ordered food etc and then they all walk in??? Well you're sort of screwed. You can either get up and walk up or you can stay and enjoy your freedoms and rights bestowed to you by the BoR. You shouldn't have to leave or avoid a place just because XYZ decided to hold their get together there. Again though, it is about self preservation. You do what you feel is right and necessary. If that is staying there, then sadly as seen in this case you risk being associated with real and imagined criminals.
Look at yourself in the mirror. You - and those with whom you associate - are what's wrong with this country.
I respect the right of grumpy old men blaming rape victims for dressing ****ty, blaming black kids for dressing like thugs, blaming bikers for riding motorcycles while wearing leather. That is what grumpy old men do, and since they do it in the comfort of their suburban homes and not in criminal courtrooms, they are largely harmless, if annoying, and ignorant of the Constitution.
That is not what we are talking about here. We are complaining about police, prosecutors and judges in a concerted effort to deny due process to 177 people by using the grumpy old man standard of probable cause. When the entire criminal justice system does it, massive abuses are committed. It is not what one expects to occur in a country that makes increasingly false claims of freedom and due process. In a "nation of laws", the law enforcement community is also expected to follow them.
That is not what we are talking about here. We are complaining about police, prosecutors and judges in a concerted effort to deny due process to 177 people by using the grumpy old man standard of probable cause. When the entire criminal justice system does it, massive abuses are committed. It is not what one expects to occur in a country that makes increasingly false claims of freedom and due process. In a "nation of laws", the law enforcement community is also expected to follow them.
I guess you just want me to tell my co-worker to not ride his motorcycle anymore. Noted.
That's not what I said not all.
I just don't understand where it became an issue to use common sense. I'll caveat that by saying he had no idea that this kind of thing would happen. HOWEVER, if he thought that there would be zero trouble at TP that day he needs to be honest with himself.
Should you're buddy have been arrested? NO, 100% NO NO NO!
Could it have been avoided by making an educated decision?? YES, 1,000 TIMES YES.
This is the thing, if your buddy went to TP and got shot and killed by an actual criminal biker dude, what would your reaction be? He is 100% an innocent bystandered, I understand that and I am not trying to say other wise. What I am SUGGESTING is that there are better choices for him and other people to make about who they choose to associate with.
I just don't understand where it became an issue to use common sense. I'll caveat that by saying he had no idea that this kind of thing would happen. HOWEVER, if he thought that there would be zero trouble at TP that day he needs to be honest with himself.
Should you're buddy have been arrested? NO, 100% NO NO NO!
Could it have been avoided by making an educated decision?? YES, 1,000 TIMES YES.
This is the thing, if your buddy went to TP and got shot and killed by an actual criminal biker dude, what would your reaction be? He is 100% an innocent bystandered, I understand that and I am not trying to say other wise. What I am SUGGESTING is that there are better choices for him and other people to make about who they choose to associate with.
quote:I've agreed with a lot of what Sharp has done for A&M, starting with the move to the SEC. But that's not germaine to this discussion. Stay on topic, please.
It's not perplexing if you've visited the Aggieland board and seen his posts about TAMU, Sharp, and everything else.
What is racist about what I said?
quote:Looks like due process is occurring as they sort through all those bond reduction hearings.
That is not what we are talking about here. We are complaining about police, prosecutors and judges in a concerted effort to deny due process to 177 people by using the grumpy old man standard of probable cause. When the entire criminal justice system does it, massive abuses are committed. It is not what one expects to occur in a country that makes increasingly false claims of freedom and due process. In a "nation of laws", the law enforcement community is also expected to follow them.
but according to you if he used common sense, he wouldn't ride a motorcycle b/c other people ride motorcycles and they are bad guys. I mean, he could be riding his motorcycle and another guy on a motorcycle could ride up next to him. Then another motorcyclist might shoot them both. Common sense says he shouldn't be a motorcyclist.
Stupid simplification, right? Well, the above states that you assume the co-worker thought there would be trouble there that day. Since he didn't, you'd have to assume that if he sees motorcycles he should assume that there's trouble brewing. So why be anywhere motorcycles are?
I'm a cyclist. When i see a restaurant or business along a cycling route that has a bunch of bicycles outside, I assume that place is friendly to bicyclists. Many times I'll stop at these places instead of a place with no bicycles. He saw motorcycles. He was on a motorcycle. He stopped for lunch. But hey, he must have known **** was going down...you know, b/c motorcycles.
Stupid simplification, right? Well, the above states that you assume the co-worker thought there would be trouble there that day. Since he didn't, you'd have to assume that if he sees motorcycles he should assume that there's trouble brewing. So why be anywhere motorcycles are?
I'm a cyclist. When i see a restaurant or business along a cycling route that has a bunch of bicycles outside, I assume that place is friendly to bicyclists. Many times I'll stop at these places instead of a place with no bicycles. He saw motorcycles. He was on a motorcycle. He stopped for lunch. But hey, he must have known **** was going down...you know, b/c motorcycles.
So by that logic no one, biker or non-biker should ever go to Sturgis. Yet everyone I know that has been all said it was the trip of a lifetime and they'd love to go back and do it again.
I've been in the area during the event. I've been to Mt. Rushmore when there were more bikes in the parking lot than cars. I'e stayed in hotels where there were more bikes than cars. When our hotel in Omaha screwed up our reservation and we spent a night in a really sketchy part of Council Bluffs, Iowa it was the bikers that said they'd keep an eye on our vehicle because their group was going to stay up in shifts for the night watching their bikes.
About the only logical reason I can see for choosing a different restaurant because there are a couple hundred bikes in the lot would be thinking, "Man that place is packed today. I bet the service might be too slow!" Then again I'd think the same thing if the lot were full of Haliburton, Weatherford, Schlumberger, Baker Hughes trucks too. I wouldn't be worried about stereotyping oil field workers.
I've been in the area during the event. I've been to Mt. Rushmore when there were more bikes in the parking lot than cars. I'e stayed in hotels where there were more bikes than cars. When our hotel in Omaha screwed up our reservation and we spent a night in a really sketchy part of Council Bluffs, Iowa it was the bikers that said they'd keep an eye on our vehicle because their group was going to stay up in shifts for the night watching their bikes.
About the only logical reason I can see for choosing a different restaurant because there are a couple hundred bikes in the lot would be thinking, "Man that place is packed today. I bet the service might be too slow!" Then again I'd think the same thing if the lot were full of Haliburton, Weatherford, Schlumberger, Baker Hughes trucks too. I wouldn't be worried about stereotyping oil field workers.
quote:quote:I've agreed with a lot of what Sharp has done for A&M, starting with the move to the SEC. But that's not germaine to this discussion. Stay on topic, please.
It's not perplexing if you've visited the Aggieland board and seen his posts about TAMU, Sharp, and everything else.
It is germain since I was replying to someone and mentioning your unquestioning support for leaders in all positions and refusal to acknowledge facts counter to their narrative.
Also, I thought Loftin was the mover behind the SEC deal.
We loved him for it, and I think he wrote a book about it.
Has that narrative from the chancellor's office now and Sharp is taking credit?
quote:Again with the stretching analogies. The gang member at his reduction hearing asserted he belonged to a club, not a gang. The prosecutor reminded the court that law enforcement considered his band of bikers a criminal gang.
but according to you if he used common sense, he wouldn't ride a motorcycle b/c other people ride motorcycles and they are bad guys. I mean, he could be riding his motorcycle and another guy on a motorcycle could ride up next to him. Then another motorcyclist might shoot them both. Common sense says he shouldn't be a motorcyclist.
Stupid simplification, right? Well, the above states that you assume the co-worker thought there would be trouble there that day. Since he didn't, you'd have to assume that if he sees motorcycles he should assume that there's trouble brewing. So why be anywhere motorcycles are?
I'm a cyclist. When i see a restaurant or business along a cycling route that has a bunch of bicycles outside, I assume that place is friendly to bicyclists. Many times I'll stop at these places instead of a place with no bicycles. He saw motorcycles. He was on a motorcycle. He stopped for lunch. But hey, he must have known **** was going down...you know, b/c motorcycles.
Y'all are focusing on the motorcycles. It's the gang members who are having trouble bailing out of jail.
After the worst mass shootout we've seen in this state in a long time.
Come on dude. Take it to the Aggieland Board.
and you are not focusing on the people who's lives are being negatively impacted to severe degrees due to injustice. Its ok though b.c things are slowly be sorted out for those who are actually guilty. Screw all the innocent people who have lost jobs, custody, etc.
I can't even respond to that. Actually I can...
Any person that has all of their mental capabilities knows for a damn fact that you are more likely to run into more unscrupulous characters at a biker (motor cycle) bar than a restaurant or bar that is a cyclist (bicycle). It's called the law of averages...
I live in Houston, when all of the major highways freeze over, I choose to not go into work. Not because I don't trust myself, it's because I can't trust the majority of the idiots who are driving next to me. There is a high probability that I would get into an accident, not my fault but still it's an accident. So I choose to sit my ass at home and if I can work from home I do so.
Hell there were documented Christian and church groups at this biker meeting, and it coulda been 98% of the total biker people there and a few bad apples.
My point isn't he should be vilified, crucified, or in this case arrested without true probable cause; my point is it could have been avoided.
Any person that has all of their mental capabilities knows for a damn fact that you are more likely to run into more unscrupulous characters at a biker (motor cycle) bar than a restaurant or bar that is a cyclist (bicycle). It's called the law of averages...
I live in Houston, when all of the major highways freeze over, I choose to not go into work. Not because I don't trust myself, it's because I can't trust the majority of the idiots who are driving next to me. There is a high probability that I would get into an accident, not my fault but still it's an accident. So I choose to sit my ass at home and if I can work from home I do so.
Hell there were documented Christian and church groups at this biker meeting, and it coulda been 98% of the total biker people there and a few bad apples.
My point isn't he should be vilified, crucified, or in this case arrested without true probable cause; my point is it could have been avoided.
44 casings found, 12 belong to police.
yep, 44 casings, 12 from police. Excludes any spent rounds found in revolvers. FBI is currently in possession of the video. ATF is analyzing the firearms. Autopsies and ballistics analysis being done by outside firm which is still finalizing results/report.
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Waco-Police-Chief-to-Provide-Update-on-Twin-Peaks-Shooting-Investigation-307146261.html
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Waco-Police-Chief-to-Provide-Update-on-Twin-Peaks-Shooting-Investigation-307146261.html
quote:
yep, 44 casings, 12 from police. Excludes any spent rounds found in revolvers. FBI is currently in possession of the video. Autopsies and ballistics being done by outside firm which is still finalizing results/report.
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Waco-Police-Chief-to-Provide-Update-on-Twin-Peaks-Shooting-Investigation-307146261.html
Those pesky facts pop up again.
quote:Source?
44 casings found, 12 belong to police.
Nevermind!
quote:[Citation Needed] Of the 177 bikers arrested, most had no criminal record whatsoever and those that did, most had nothing else on their record other than possession of less than 2oz of pot or DUI.
Any person that has all of their mental capabilities knows for a damn fact that you are more likely to run into more unscrupulous characters at a biker (motor cycle) bar than a restaurant or bar that is a cyclist (bicycle). It's called the law of averages...
A very small percentage of people that were arrested or killed had any sort of documented criminal history. Maybe they were all super criminals that were able to not be caught doing anything wrong, but I kind of doubt it.
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