And I'm not saying I'd be thrilled about any of it. This is where the **** sandwich comes into play as well. I'd want the hell out if I didn't do anything, but I did put myself there, associate with people capable of this kind of melee, and have to realize it's going to take some time to unwind myself.
Gunfight at the Twin Peaks [Staff Warning on page 47]
333,888 Views |
1928 Replies |
Last: 2 yr ago by rather be fishing
quote:Houston PD Kmar Fiasco... 2002quote:
I think some of you guys have officially lost your minds in the last two pages. The more i see about this the more I see a giant charlie foxtrot. Waco PD has 170 people in jail charged with a felony and being held on $1,000,000 bond. None of those people will be able to get out of jail anytime in the forseeable future. The more I see, the more I'm thinking there are a lot more than just Cossacks and Bandidos sitting in the clink. Waco PD has changed their official story so many times no one knows what to even consider believing. Couple that with gut check reactions by TP senior management to yank the franchise based on those initial comments, and now AP reports video showing the whole mess started in the parking lot! Looks like upwards of many of the "weapons" that were found were items that were perfectly legal to possess anywhere at any time. An AK in a car? Perfectly legal. How many of the knives were just various forms of pocket knives? To top it all off, they towed and impounded EVERY vehicle in the parking lot, including those of the employees!
Are there some criminals sitting in the clink right now? Undoubtedly. Are the vast majority of the people sitting in jail right now being wrongfully accused and wrongfully imprisoned? I think so. The job of law enforcement is to enforce the laws and arrest those whom they have evidence to have broken the law. They are not allowed to throw everyone in jail, charge them with a felony, and just let the courts figure it out.
The ACLU is going to have a field day with this one.
This is reminding me more and more about the Kmart parking lot fiasco Houston PD farked up back in the early 2000's.
I agree with pretty much everything you said.
What was the Kmart fiasco?
Cliffs notes...
Westheimer Rd was popular among the street racing crowd, and this particular KMart parking lot was a popular gathering spot for them.
Raid on KMart Parking Lot Leaves Shock, Anger
Judge Rips KMart raid's mass arrests
Boys in Blue, your Union has your back!
Edit to add... If I recall, and gentlemen that's been a lot of beers and a couple hours sleep ago, there was also a resulting charlie foxtrot over KMart's trespassing/loitering policy and their vehicle towing policy/signage. IIRC some places didn't like the crowds, others were indifferent, but there wasn't any "proper" towing signage in place. State law is just as specific on your towing signage as they are on CHL signage.
Yes. When you pay a bail bondsman to pay your way out of the clink, the 10% you pay him is non-refundable.
I don't even know if bail bondsmen WILL or even have the cash on hand to post a $1,000,000 bail. Much less if there are enough of them in McClennon County to post $170,000,000 in bail! If I were a bondsman and someone was willing to lose the $100k fee to me to get their but out, I'd have very real concerns about them being a flight risk.
I don't even know if bail bondsmen WILL or even have the cash on hand to post a $1,000,000 bail. Much less if there are enough of them in McClennon County to post $170,000,000 in bail! If I were a bondsman and someone was willing to lose the $100k fee to me to get their but out, I'd have very real concerns about them being a flight risk.
Gotcha. Thanks.
I think we can thank Ferguson and Baltimore for what the reaction was in Waco. The local officials do not want to see their city burnt to the ground by a large group of dirtbags with no ties to the community. Are the tactics used ideal ? NO. Is the city the seen of destruction that we all saw in Ferganistan? NO.
It will be cheaper for the city to pay off the lawsuits than for the place to go to hell permanently.
It will be cheaper for the city to pay off the lawsuits than for the place to go to hell permanently.
If it was going to go to hell it wouldve while they were trying to arrest 170 people...
Now I remember. I had totally forgotten about that mess.
Ash has bailed a couple of them out already. He has the money, as a big time (cough cough) librarian shouldn't be a proble.
But yeah he and chapman are probably the only two in Waco that could front that kind of money.
But yeah he and chapman are probably the only two in Waco that could front that kind of money.
quote:
I think we can thank Ferguson and Baltimore for what the reaction was in Waco. The local officials do not want to see their city burnt to the ground by a large group of dirtbags with no ties to the community. Are the tactics used ideal ? NO. Is the city the seen of destruction that we all saw in Ferganistan? NO.
It will be cheaper for the city to pay off the lawsuits than for the place to go to hell permanently.
There is nothing about this case that even remotely resembles either of those in any way, except for, potentially, police overreactions.
Interesting. Dang, I mean I hope I never get caught up in something like this, but the idea of having to drop $100K to get out of jail and back to my job, which pays less than that... I couldn't do it. I don't have that kind of liquidity.
On the plus side, lots of them upped their street cred. they are now really in the 1 %.
Heard on the radio this morning that Waco Police Department can't wait to release the video. I'm guessing it corroborates their statements.
quote:Which ones? Make enough statements the odds start getting in your favor that something you say will be true.
Heard on the radio this morning that Waco Police Department can't wait to release the video. I'm guessing it corroborates their statements.
Or should I ask, "which video?" Seems to me if you're a cop in today's environment and see it fit to have SWAT on scene before anything even happens, you'd have enough video surveillance on the scene to make the NSA jealous.
quote:
You're missing the point that it's virtually certain some innocents were swept up out of an abundance of caution (understandable and excusable) but once the immediate threat was quelled, it was wrong to jail every person in attendance without probable cause, thereby creating an even bigger problem to administer!
It's simply an overreach the Constitution (BoR) is designed to prevent. If we don't demand it be respected, it won't be.
I agree "innocents" shouldn't be jailed without probable cause. Unfortunately these individuals were solely there because they chose to associate with the regional biker committee that is responsible for the altercation. That's probable cause.
If random bikers unaffiliated with the committee or altercation are jailed, it will be a law suite. However all badged bikers have no valid argument to be released until their involvement can be determined.
Player To Be Named Later
Joined:
Sep 22, 2003
Posts:
23,125
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Latest Intel is that several high ranking members of the Bandidos has reached out to law enforcement channels and let them know they do not have issues with, or standing "green light" to attack law enforcement.
Which would seem odd if Waco PD did in fact "ambush" these guys. Sure, Bandidos genreally avoid outright confrontation with LE, but if anything would bring that about I would assume Waco PD ambushing and shooting at them with no cause would bring that about.
Which would seem odd if Waco PD did in fact "ambush" these guys. Sure, Bandidos genreally avoid outright confrontation with LE, but if anything would bring that about I would assume Waco PD ambushing and shooting at them with no cause would bring that about.
quote:I have not seen anyone claim that LE "ambushed" the bikers. But it's possible some who were unarmed and posing no threat were hit/killed in the "confusion". We've all heard the claim that "the bikers turned their fire upon the police", but I seriously doubt many, if any, did. Certainly not all of them. Thus the speculation of an overreaction by the LEOs and resultant deaths. Mass arrests could then be an attempt to help mask that mistake.
Latest Intel is that several high ranking members of the Bandidos has reached out to law enforcement channels and let them know they do not have issues with, or standing "green light" to attack law enforcement.
Which would seem odd if Waco PD did in fact "ambush" these guys. Sure, Bandidos genreally avoid outright confrontation with LE, but if anything would bring that about I would assume Waco PD ambushing and shooting at them with no cause would bring that about.
Seeing the orderly processing of all those bikers lined up in rows, just like a bunch of third graders, did not give the impression of a bunch of rowdies anxious to take on the cops. I suspect all but a handful will ultimately be exonerated of any wrongdoing. Yet they will have paid a heavy price for their decision to peacefully assemble with some other hotheads that day.
Player To Be Named Later
Joined:
Sep 22, 2003
Posts:
23,125
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Wasn't trying to pick an argument, just passing along real time information. I'll keep it to myself.
Y'all carry on.
Y'all carry on.
quote:The biker committee was not responsible for the altercation. People were there for the COC&I get together, which is a peaceful thing that has happened for decades. An attorney wrote in the DMN about it a day or two ago.quote:
You're missing the point that it's virtually certain some innocents were swept up out of an abundance of caution (understandable and excusable) but once the immediate threat was quelled, it was wrong to jail every person in attendance without probable cause, thereby creating an even bigger problem to administer!
It's simply an overreach the Constitution (BoR) is designed to prevent. If we don't demand it be respected, it won't be.
I agree "innocents" shouldn't be jailed without probable cause. Unfortunately these individuals were solely there because they chose to associate with the regional biker committee that is responsible for the altercation. That's probable cause.
If random bikers unaffiliated with the committee or altercation are jailed, it will be a law suite. However all badged bikers have no valid argument to be released until their involvement can be determined.
It would be like if some crips and bloods got in a fight at an NRA convention, so the police arrested all NRA members there. They will probably arrest some legit bad dudes at the NRA convention, but the majority won't be involved with anything bad.
quote:quote:The biker committee was not responsible for the altercation. People were there for the COC&I get together, which is a peaceful thing that has happened for decades. An attorney wrote in the DMN about it a day or two ago.quote:
You're missing the point that it's virtually certain some innocents were swept up out of an abundance of caution (understandable and excusable) but once the immediate threat was quelled, it was wrong to jail every person in attendance without probable cause, thereby creating an even bigger problem to administer!
It's simply an overreach the Constitution (BoR) is designed to prevent. If we don't demand i be respected, it won't be.
I agree "innocents" shouldn't be jailed without probable cause. Unfortunately these individuals were solely there because they chose to associate with the regional biker committee that is responsible for the altercation. That's probable cause.
If random bikers unaffiliated with the committee or altercation are jailed, it will be a law suite. However all badged bikers have no valid argument to be released until their involvement can be determined.
It would be like if some crips and bloods got in a fight at an NRA convention, so the police arrested all NRA members there. They will probably arrest some legit bad dudes at the NRA convention, but the majority won't be involved with anything bad.
Was there known tension between member / former member groups? Would this have happened at TP if the meeting wasn't there? The fall out was a direct result from members of that meeting.
If street gangs are members of the NRA and the NRA does not provide security, the outcome would be the same. TP and the COC failed to provide security like you see at every gun show and will be responsible for not attempting to controlling the outcome.
Only if the crips and bloods ran the NRA.
quote:The fallout was because people that were not invited to the meeting showed up to start ****.
Was there known tension between member / former member groups? Would this have happened at TP if the meeting wasn't there? The fall out was a direct result from members of that meeting.
quote:And it wasn't my intent to argue with you either. I appreciated your post, and respect your opinions. No doubt some may suspect an ambush occurred. I just feel that's an argument that can derail where the focus oughta be, which is to get to the truth, while releasing those being held unnecessarily. I'd imagine "hotheads" were likely present on both sides of the fracas. Please continue to contribute to the discussion!
Wasn't trying to pick an argument, just passing along real time information. I'll keep it to myself.
Y'all carry on.
Player To Be Named Later
Joined:
Sep 22, 2003
Posts:
23,125
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:quote:And it wasn't my intent to argue with you either. I appreciated your post, and respect your opinions. No doubt some may suspect an ambush occurred. I just feel that's an argument that can derail where the focus oughta be, which is to get to the truth, while releasing those being held unnecessarily. I'd imagine "hotheads" were likely present on both sides of the fracas. Please continue to contribute to the discussion!
Wasn't trying to pick an argument, just passing along real time information. I'll keep it to myself.
Y'all carry on.
I admittedly have spent too much time on social media lately. I really should learn to avoid the comments section of news articles, where many have decided that the police baited these guys into showing up, set up am ambush, and mowed these poor church going bikers down.
Gotcha. Dealing with "virtual" conversations rather than people we actually know has its drawbacks and pitfalls. Many thoughts and ideas aren't worthy of comment, yet they seem to stir up the most! Funny how that works. We'd all do well to ignore most of it.
The occasional derail or hurt feelings aside, I'm still really enjoying this thread!
Does anyone know who is handling the investigation? I figure the Texas Rangers will take over?
Does anyone know who is handling the investigation? I figure the Texas Rangers will take over?
quote:WacoPD said they are handling it all, but allowing outside agencies to run a concurrent investigation. That may have changed since they said that, though.
The occasional derail or hurt feelings aside, I'm still really enjoying this thread!
Does anyone know who is handling the investigation? I figure the Texas Rangers will take over?
Considering that DPS had some troopers on site at the shooting, and that their Regional HQ is in Waco, I am certain the Rangers are involved.
Police overreaction is a viable assumption until the police release some video, which they should have plenty of, that shows them being fired upon or the bikers shooting the place up. Most reports that I have seen do not really match up with what the police are saying. Finding an AK in someones car, 1000's hundreds of weapons hidden in food and other random places, hundreds of shots fired, fights inside, fights outside. That all sounds like the police trying to make it out to be bigger than it was to justify their actions. Surveillance inside TP showed 1 biker shooting... If the place was surrounded why would the bikers go outside shooting? If the bikers are so violent and had so many weapons how did the cops get a couple hundred people under control?
I find it fascinating that they arrested hundreds of people for just being there, when thousands of people in St. Louis and Baltimore were committing crimes during the riots and are not being held accountable for actually committing crimes, many of which were assault of officers...
I find it fascinating that they arrested hundreds of people for just being there, when thousands of people in St. Louis and Baltimore were committing crimes during the riots and are not being held accountable for actually committing crimes, many of which were assault of officers...
quote:
Considering that DPS had some troopers on site at the shooting, and that their Regional HQ is in Waco, I am certain the Rangers are involved.
No troopers fired a shot.
There have been atf, fbi, rangers and probably more on scene.
my question is how many guns were stored in vehicles making them legal. funny how the police do not break that down. How many knives were nothing more then pocket knives? How many CHL owners had guns on them (assuming this was not a 51% site).
quote:Fascinating perhaps, but easily explained. It's all about the culture. Both locally and that of e Gov't.
I find it fascinating that they arrested hundreds of people for just being there, when thousands of people in St. Louis and Baltimore were committing crimes during the riots and are not being held accountable for actually committing crimes, many of which were assault of officers...
quote:This this this x 1000. Everyone there was voluntarily affiliating with the criminal element, no matter how small that element may be.
Only if the crips and bloods ran the NRA.
Player To Be Named Later
Joined:
Sep 22, 2003
Posts:
23,125
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:quote:Fascinating perhaps, but easily explained. It's all about the culture. Both locally and that of e Gov't.
I find it fascinating that they arrested hundreds of people for just being there, when thousands of people in St. Louis and Baltimore were committing crimes during the riots and are not being held accountable for actually committing crimes, many of which were assault of officers...
Exactly. Texas vs big city northern liberal cities.
Wanna bet that those riots would have been handled differently in Texas than they were in Baltimore (Austin excluded).
Waco =/= Baltimore in any way, shape, or form. That and bikers also behave differently than your typical thug. They didn't immediately start large scale riots.
Featured Stories
See All
Keys to the Game: #5 Texas A&M vs. #13 Texas (SEC Tournament)
by Luke Evangelist
A&M refuses to relax despite having secured its NCAA Tourney ticket
by Olin Buchanan
12:18
10m ago
194
Scouting Report: #5 Texas A&M vs. #13 Texas (SEC Tournament)
by Tom Schuberth
11:11
13h ago
3.1k
TexAgs On-Site: Williams & Co. start the postseason in Nashville
by Luke Evangelist
AggieNattie
Scouting Report: #5 Texas A&M vs. #13 Texas (SEC Tournament)
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
16
chtow
Trev Alberts Named On NCAA Settlement Implementation Committee
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
8
AgEngr12
Trev Alberts Named On NCAA Settlement Implementation Committee
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
6