So probably the next step taller rings? They're Leupold rings I bought at Gander, and there were the tallest they had, I think.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=383869

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=384637

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=386249

All the way at the bottom:

http://www.maxicon.com/guns/optics/one_piece/ar15_onepiece_mounts.htm#rings

What about just getting a riser like this LaRue one.
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=28

Albeit that one is a bit more pricey and I'd probably rather just buy taller rings, but then that would put to waste the rings I did buy.

Maybe I can find some cheaper risers.

ETA: After some investigation, I've gather a collection that I'd be interested in.

The pricey ones:
LaRue
ARMS
GG&G

And the budget ones:
Barska
Millett

Any thoughts on those? I'd love to nab a LaRue, but if I do I'm going to have to wait till I've got some extra money. And even then, why not just buy a set of taller rings for that price? Or I could just go to Gander Mountain and pick up some riser off the shelf like I did with the scope.

That being said, how much high does my scope need to be? It's already on "tall" rings. The LaRue is a 5/8" rise, is that ideal or does it need to be more or less?

[This message has been edited by StrosAggies34 (edited 7/31/2008 10:45a).]

You can't go wrong with the Larue, and I'd personally recommend saving up the cash and getting it.

I've never liked riser mounts since that is one more thing that can go wrong:

Scope in rings>>Rings attached to riser>>riser attached to upper

With the Larue it is:

Scope in rings/riser integral combo>>combo attached to upper

Lots of Larue gear is serving right now in the sandbox. Additionally, Larue is here in TX, and they usually throw in alot of freebie gear if you buy directly from them.

I'll save up for LaRue then. Should be nice to have a $50 scope mounted in something twice its value.

Just gives you a justifiable reason to upgrade down the road.

I know I'm not the first, or last, person to brag about Larue, but I just had a very good experience with them. Tuesday afternoon I ordered a couple of PMAG's from the website. Got an e-mail yesterday morning about a problem with my credit card on the order. I recently changed home address and the cc company is lagging behind on the change. Called the number on the e-mail, and within 3 minutes the guy had everything changed over and a new e-mail with shipping data. Just got the package this afternoon with my Pmag's and free beverage entry tool with bumper stickers. They've made me a customer for life. Gladly pay a little more for the service and Texas ties.

I've heard they have something called "Dillo dust" which is seasoning I think. Apparently they toss it in on some orders (Stealth uppers I think). Though I've never bought from them they're high on my list because of their customer service reputation.

Bought a scope mount from them and have some extra goodies thrown into the box. Unexpected and nice. The mount is incredible quality, and their customer service is one thing I really miss about Texas, and many southern states in general.

Got my scope mount from them a couple of weeks ago and they includes some bumper stickers, beverage tool, Dillo Dust, paint mixer, and a hat. EXCELLENT customer service. I called them instead of using the website just so I could visit w/ them for a minute. I really like it when the salespeople and even whoever answers the phone for them actually use their products and can gives tips and advice. I'm a customer for life of theirs.

-FYI, wasn't my first Larue product, but my first new one.

"Range" Report (Part Deux):

Just as the Hot Shots reference in the title might imply, this was probably the worst I have ever shot. Although my experience in the past has been limited to shotguns and pheasant, at which I think I am fair, my centerfire experience has been nonexistent.

After sending 28 rounds of Black Hills Red Box towards a town of Prairie Dogs sitting over 100 yards away, I decided to try my hand at an actual target. I stepped off approximately 100 yards to the South of my position, though it appeared to be much closer. We had taped a 100 yard target to a plastic barrel earlier in the day and placed the barrel at the marked site.

After returning to the pickup I bragged that I would do the shot prone from the bed of the pickup, so as to make it look like I was a good shooter. However, my grouping showed otherwise.

I sent ten shots of Black Hills Red Box 55 grain full metal jacket from my Stag-15 Model 2 equipped with a $50 Bushnell 3-9x33 scope mounted on "high" Leupold rings and fed from a D&H Teflon-coated 30 round magazine. Weather conditions were good. The sun was nearly on the horizon and there was pretty much no wind.

The results follow:



Yes, this is something I should push into a far part of my memory and never speak of to anyone. Yet I feel the need to tell at least this portion of the internet of my ineptitude.

For reference, I was aiming for the center circle. The five shots you see that are clearly within the "box" of the target are the best. You can see one hit above the box and three more hit the tape outside of the paper. The tenth shot is still a mystery.

My analysis of such an event would be worthless due to my lack of experience, but I will offer my thoughts.

1. The scope is mounted too low. Earlier I had actually turned the elevation knob down because I was overshooting Prairie Dogs. However this problem obviously persisted when shooting at a target that was actually slightly lower in elevation than I was.

2. My lack of experience with any rifle larger than a .22 Long Rifle has led me to not be prepared for the recoil of anything bigger. I can handle 20 gauge and 12 gauge shotguns just fine, but apparently my body does not like the "soft" recoil of the Ar-15. I say soft because I still don't think it has much kick. From prone it was nearly effortless.

3. My lack of experience with a scope. Shotguns do not have scopes and our lone .22 Long Rifle has a crappy 4x that I hated using. No more needed here.

4. Inconsistency of holding a target. I realized even then that I was not shooting the same place I was aiming for every time. I was certainly aiming for the center circle, but there was some obvious movement to the sides and vertically. Even resting the magazine on the pickup bed did not help me stay steady.

All those being said, I would like some feedback. Though none of you were there to see my "stance", I think some advice as far as just accuracy goes would help. The scope hasn't been sighted in so that should attribute to part of the equation.

I could have not posted this and just gone on with life, but I want to be better. Making my faults public tend to be the best way to improve from failure.

Were you shooting on a rest?

Is everything tight?

That looks more like a mechanical issue than bad shooting.

No rest. There is slight play between the stock and tube, but not enough to say it doesn't fit. There is a very tiny gap between the upper and lower receivers, and though there is some slight horizontal play, its not enough to think its a problem. I did switch out handguards and it appears the delta ring didn't go back forward as far as it was on the old handguards.

Otherwise everything is relatively unchanged.

ETA: It had had 28 rounds of Wolf and 28 rounds of Black Hills through it before I did this particular test. The gun was not clean but the bolt had been lubed (though not immediately before this particular shoot).

[This message has been edited by StrosAggies34 (edited 7/31/2008 11:35p).]

[This message has been edited by StrosAggies34 (edited 7/31/2008 11:36p).]

Did you have the scope dialed all the way up to 9X ? A bad (factory) AR trigger and a full power scope generally equal poor groups.

You mentioned you havent shot a lot, work on trigger control. It is a rule of thumb that you will shoot your best groups with you scope set at about 1/3 of its max power. Ussualy about 3-4 power...more than that and you are really distracted by the moment of the crosshairs.

PP

in case you guys missed it...

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=248&sfs=1c32c599

Like you I'm more of a shotgun guy. The others will offer you good advice and everything else but I'd like to comment on this.

quote:

---

My lack of experience with any rifle larger than a .22 Long Rifle has led me to not be prepared for the recoil of anything bigger. I can handle 20 gauge and 12 gauge shotguns just fine, but apparently my body does not like the "soft" recoil of the Ar-15. I say soft because I still don't think it has much kick. From prone it was nearly effortless.

---

Certainly the felt recoil of a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun is more then an AR. However, shooting a shotgun is all instictive. The bird flushes or the target presents, you mount the gun, and BANG. With a rifle you line up, control breathing, etc. In other words, unlike a shotgun, you have to "think" about it. I found that dry firing helped me with this problem.

good beginners read...

http://www.huntingmag.com/big_game/dirty_dozen/

quote:

---

The scope hasn't been sighted in

---

Maybe its just me, but this seems to be the part that stood out to me the most.

but he should still group...

Agreed, the non-grouping has nothing to do with the optics. But the good news Stros...you now have the perfect reason to practice and shoot the AR over and over and over.

I'd take the scope off, slap the BUIS on, and see what you do from there. If you can get a decent group with the BUIS, you know it's a scope issue. If not, you know for sure that it isn't the scope.

Get a Magpul MIAD Full Grip Kit. One of the grip inserts has the trigger guard built in, and you can customize the grip to the dimensions that you like.

http://www.magpul.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=78_103&products_id=213

Spend the money for a good trigger. No other enhancement will give a larger return in terms of accuracy improvement and joy of shooting your rifle.

PP

good single stage or two stage trigger?

Thanks for the tips. I've been out of town and I now feel like taking her out and see what I can do with the BUIS to investigate.

RRA/CMT are finished a little nicer than the DPMS. Both will work (I've used both). For a stock trigger, the RRA kit is alot nicer than the DPMS trigger though.

As far as single stage vs. double, I would suggest the Accuracy Speaks for the single and the Geissele SSA for the two stage. Both are pricey, but worth it.

http://adcofirearms.com/acc/ProductLineSingle_.cfm?brand=Geissele

[This message has been edited by Log (edited 8/4/2008 10:10p).]

They're just RRA/CMT/Stag LPK's. I usually order from Adco, since they ship very fast, and Legal Transfers tends to be slow. Someone on here, I think it might have been StrosAggie, just ordered an upper from him and it took awhile to get it.

http://adcofirearms.com/itemdetails_.cfm?inventorynumber=1313

No doubt, a single stage is the best trigger. It is the only option for use where you are doing Double-taps or Hammer drills. A good SS requires a good quality trigger group and someone who knows what they are doing to install it.

A two stage is good for long range work, sucks for fast shooting, and is generally installable by just about anyone that can put in the trigger components. They are thought to be more durable..but I have thousands of rounds on my JP single stages with no issues.

YMMV.

PP

YHM one piece quad rail - $90
Larue - $273

i know larue is the better brand, but is it worth that much more?

i bought a YHM but haven't built the rifle yet...

dont really know why i posted but my training class is dragging ass right now....

[This message has been edited by deatsman (edited 8/5/2008 11:20a).]

"Is it worth that much more?"

In every way. I have both...a YHM rifle length lightweight and several LT's. LT is lighter, thinner, has a built in sling mount and it is beautifully made.

Buy once, cry once.

PP

LaRue. I've got a 7.0 and 11.0.