United Healthcare CEO shot and killed in NYC

198,682 Views | 1398 Replies | Last: 1 day ago by BadMoonRisin
Anti-taxxer
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Nanomachines son said:





It's bipartisan too. People really really hate health insurance companies.

Is that supposed to say "morally" defensible?
ramblin_ag02
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agracer said:

Tom Fox said:

The answer is simple. Eliminate health insurance. You pay cash when you are treated and let the free market dictate pricing.

It will be cheaper for everyone and save us trillions in tax revenue.
the simple answer is to make it like car insurance...you know, actual insurance. Get in to many accidents or too many tickets, they increase your rates.

We don't have health insurance in this country. We have health maintenance plans.


We don't have insurance or maintenance plans. We have health extended warranties, except even more of a scam
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Wyoming Aggie
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[We are not going to allow that type of posting on this website. -Staff]
Gig em G
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For any reason? No.

But I tried and struggle to find any sympathy for this CEO. I personally know people who were financially ruined by the medical insurance system we are stuck with in this country. We all know how corrupt it is, and nothing is being done
bobbranco
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I don't think anybody is justifying the CEO being killed. Sad that his family may miss him. He is in the business of screwing people out of money. I believe it's a natural reaction when people's livelihoods are destroyed that some people retaliate trying to exact retribution. If and when the guy who shot the CEO is caught, he should be prosecuted.

It does not make what unscrupulous companies, lawyers and judges do any less disgusting than when they actively and unfairly take actions to destroy people. That's why many judges and lawyers sleep with a pistol at night. Oh well. Color me indifferent.
pollo hermanos
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bobbranco said:

I don't think anybody is justifying the CEO being killed. Sad that his family may miss him. He is in the business of screwing people out of money. I believe it's a natural reaction when people's livelihoods are destroyed that some people retaliate trying to exact retribution. If and when the guy who shot the CEO is caught, he should be prosecuted.

It does not make what unscrupulous companies, lawyers and judges do any less disgusting than when they actively and unfairly take actions to destroy people. That's why many judges and lawyers sleep with a pistol at night. Oh well. Color me indifferent.


WyomingAg literally just said it made his day. The murder of some made his day.
texagbeliever
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agracer said:

texagbeliever said:

FancyKetchup14 said:

PA24 said:

Assassin is a cowardly job.
Running an insurance company that is more concerned with securing billions in profits than helping paying patients is more cowardly.

You are being too nice in the description of what insurance companies do.

1. They lobby congress to pass laws that protect their business and eliminate competition (if you think Obamacare wasn't written for big Healthcare you'd be wrong)
2. They likely use leverage of position to bully small individual private practicing doctors into bad deals (see posts on here)
3. They ADD NO VALUE to the medical process. None. They actively seek to make it more confusing. How can someone negotiate a $20k bill to $4k. It isn't because the hospital surcharge the insurance company (if the hospital isn't owned by the insurance).
For everyone claiming that insurance co. are driven by massive profits, Obamacare limited those profits through what is called a Medical Loss Ratio, which is set by law at 80% for small insurers, 85% for larger insurers.

The remaining 15/20% can be used for marketing, administration and profit.

All this did was make ins. co's increase their rates, co-pays and lower reimbursements to providers.

So what i said was right? Good information.

It is like a utility if you cap their margin % then the goal will be to spend money.
PA24
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Nm
jacketman03
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Since this thread has turned into "what's even the point of health insurance anyway", I'll toss my anecdotal experiences onto the pile. I'm 40, wife is 33, we have a 7 and a 4 year old. Wife works for the State of Nebraska, so we have pretty good coverage (self-insured managed by UHC), and we pay about $550/month in premiums. Since the state's fiscal year runs July 1-June 30, those are also the dates our insurance calendar are set. Since our youngest was born in September 2020, we have hit the family OOP max every year, and by the end of December in each year (6 months into the plan year). Youngest daughter got 3 sets of tubes, and the first set coincided with her being in the hospital for 5 days with RSV in the 20-21 plan year. 21-22, doctors found a quite rare "aggressively benign" tumor in her spine that necessitated her going to MD Anderson for treatment, and eventually had a bone graft and spinal fusion surgery, so that helped us hit that OOP max for the 21-22 and 22-23 years. Last year (2023), I had back surgery in August for a herniated disk, and by December it had failed, so I got a spinal fusion for Christmas, and there's the OOP max for the 23-24 year. This year, we haven't hit the family OOP max yet, but I did blow through mine because after the surgery, my body decided it didn't wanna to replenish the iron, and the anemia landed me in the hospital for 3 weeks in August.

Now, we've been paying that $550ish a month since July 2017, so had we been "banking" that money instead of paying for insurance, we'd have just shy of $50k saved up by now, or enough to pay for the cheapest of the 4 surgeries that my wife and I had in calendar year 2024.

And oh yeah, until that herniated disk decided to screw me up for a year and a half (so far), I ran 3 half marathons a year, my cholesterol is lower than what I weighed when I graduated high school, and neither my wife nor I have any chronic health conditions.
bobbranco
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pollo hermanos said:

bobbranco said:

I don't think anybody is justifying the CEO being killed. Sad that his family may miss him. He is in the business of screwing people out of money. I believe it's a natural reaction when people's livelihoods are destroyed that some people retaliate trying to exact retribution. If and when the guy who shot the CEO is caught, he should be prosecuted.

It does not make what unscrupulous companies, lawyers and judges do any less disgusting than when they actively and unfairly take actions to destroy people. That's why many judges and lawyers sleep with a pistol at night. Oh well. Color me indifferent.


WyomingAg literally just said it made his day. The murder of some made his day.

He never said justified. I don't applaud WA's sentiment but life is not fair. The CEO's unfair actions bit him horribly. If people dance about the CEO's death or cry about his death, so be it. I share the same attitude the CEO exhibits on a daily basis.

I will definitely not lose any moment of sleep about this CEO's demise. The killer will be caught and prosecuted. Certainly you can understand why the guy was killed if it was because of a claim denial.
Nanomachines son
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Quo Vadis? said:

Nanomachines son said:





It's bipartisan too. People really really hate health insurance companies.
I understand it. It's the same thought I had when I saw members of congress cowering under the tables in the Senate building during the Jan 6 hubbub. "These people are finally realizing that the decisions they make on a daily basis have real life consequences".

For many modern society has been structured around disassociating consequences from actions.

Congress votes to send a bunch of American kids to war, while ensuring their's will never have to go.

A big company decides to close down a manufacturing plant to make an extra 15% by offshoring to a 3rd world country, without worrying about where the employees will go.

An insurance company denies coverage due to some loophole on a policy that's been paid into for 10 years, to make sure they hit their EPS target, and a mother dies.

There is a huge unholy alliance between big finance/insurance of obscenely rich people who produce nothing and get paid from manipulation. Their actions cause countless deaths and injuries (as has been detailed on this thread) and they think they're insulated from the consequences because "i have a fiduciary duty to the shareholders".

The social contract is fraying.





Yep, I don't think anyone is ready for the consequences of the social contract between elites and average citizens breaking. Previously elites held loyalty to the regular people and were Patriotic/loyalists. Now these people hold loyalty only to themselves and exist to fleece the general public for additional power, control, and money. The average person knows this too so the only thing holding it together is that the average person continues to increase their own wealth and improve their own lives. The instant the average person encounters hardship and life gets worse for them that social contract will begin to fray. Covid absolutely blew the doors off of this contract and many have never recovered from it so the anger is building.

At some point people will begin targeting elites who control those systems that wronged them and the average person will likely cheer it on.

The difference now in comparison to say the French Revolution or Russian Revolution is that there is no counter elite to paint the targets. It's ground up grassroots anger because the elites can't control the flow of information anymore. The future could easily devolve into one of complete chaos if the elites don't stop pressing the average people.
Pinochet
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stetson said:

ttu_85 said:

GAC06 said:

BlueSmoke said:

ttu_85 said:

texagbeliever said:

Dicer said:

That's what IMO doesn't make this a pro. A pro would've likely taken her out as well. This was an amateur who was either hired or he was pissed off

Disagree. The guy knows he is on camera. He also knew she wasnt a threat. What information is that woman going to give law enforcement that the video wouldn't?

Also it isn't like some rando is going to know the CEOs schedule.
Weird case. Dude was cool and had the 'look' of someone that has done this before, especially given how he causally walked away.

But...

Then struggles with his weapon leaving 3 live 9mm rounds and some brass. You would think a pro would know his ammo and weapon and quickly police the brass. Yet the dude was coldly ruthless.

Like I said odd.
Tells me that pistol is at the bottom of the river or melted down. Non concerns of spent rounds being traced back to the pistol.


Uh, I don't think even the best assassin in the world is going to recover his spent rounds on the sidewalk in Manhattan
Some of y'all are missing my main point. My question is, why are there unspent rounds on the ground? You'd think a pro would know the tools of his trade like the back of his hand. So a pro goes on a hit with a jacked up gun or bad ammo ?

Odd

This is the largest evidence that this guy is not a professional hitman. A suppressor works by using baffles to slow down and cool the expanding gases produced by the gunpowder, which reduces sound. He had to manually cycle the pistol because he probably used incorrect ammunition, such as subsonic, in combination with the suppressor causing insufficient gas pressure to fully propel the slide rearward. He did seem prepared for it, however, as he did not appear surprised and quickly cleared any jam and cycled the pistol. My take is that he was concerned about noise so used a suppressor with subsonic ammunition that provided insufficient gas pressure to cycle the semi-automatic pistol.

I use subs in my suppressed 9mm Glock when I want it to be as quiet as the movies. The supersonic crack is hard to suppress so that is how most integrally suppressed start - by slowing down the round. On the screw on suppressors you have to start with bigger/slower projectiles. The only problem I have is that while being quieter than a 22, it's not very accurate. Point of impact moves 2-3 feet at 25 yards.
lunchbox
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Dicer
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AgBQ-00
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looks like Schmidt (sp?) from New Girl
You do not have a soul. You are a soul that has a body.

We sing Hallelujah! The Lamb has overcome!
agcrock2005
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OK, no longer think he's a professional if he really took off his mask. BUT, doesn't look like say outfit and not wearing backpack. Seems fishy.
Dicer
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They're saying this was from before the hit apparently
P.H. Dexippus
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He's busted now, no way he's not IDed
P.U.T.U
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Saw that the security picture was at a Starbucks of all places. Turning out to be way to convenient
Dicer
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Dang, I thought he'd get away with it, but he's kinda dumb. Assuming he's from out of town he should've not gotten a hotel and just camped on the streets, disguised as a homeless person then fled via subway to wherever
nortex97
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P.H. Dexippus said:

He's busted now, no way he's not IDed


He's busted? Did they apprehend him?
MarkTwain
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lunchbox said:




Different backpack different coat curious as to how they are tying this guy to the perp
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because hard men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
Quo Vadis?
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He's either antifa, or the lead singer of AFI, Davey Havok.
torrid
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MarkTwain said:

lunchbox said:




Different backpack different coat curious as to how they are tying this guy to the perp


Looks like the same coat with different lighting.

adding context - The two pictures above are the same person with different lighting/white balance. However when you compare other photos released of the suspect with a mask there are differences - coat, backpack, nose looks different.
Bert315
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drdavid10k58 said:

Aston04 said:

Wife was in house counsel for a small regional medical provider. United Healthcare was the worst. Owed them over a half million+. They would simply not pay and just ignore for months letters from the legal team. They knew they had extreme leverage because the provider didn't want to be cut off from them.

So not only does United directly screw patients, they do so as well to providers.

They suck. Not surprised someone went after their CEO.
I was one of those providers. When I was in private practice in the 1990's, UHC first entered the insurance market and quickly low-bid the other insurers for the largest employers in the county. First they came to me and every other FP in town and showed us how well they reimbursed for office visits and our 10 most commonly billed services. It wasn't great but was competitive with other ins companies, so most of us signed up.
One year later, the company sent out letters stating that IAW our contracts, they were exercising their right to redo our fee schedules, basically slashing them to below medicare levels (poor reimbursement), and our only recourse was to quit the plan, which I did, because they were doing the old "bait and switch," as did many other FP's, and the only FP's who stayed were foreign medical school graduates. Within a week, I had many patients calling up to complain that I was removed from their list of FP's to choose from. We tried explaining, but UHC made it sound like we had abandoned our patients. When we complained to UHC, we were told it was "all due to budget cuts" since they weren't "making any money."
That year, UHC paid their CEO a $50M bonus for their windfall of profits.

Now, I'm retired and on medicare myself. When UHC advertises to me that they can give me the lowest price for choosing them as a medicare supplemental insurance, I just smile, and say, "I still remember."


I work for a large hospital system and UHC tried similar a few years ago. We've had a contract for years with them but it was time to renegotiate after 5 years. When they came to the table they wanted a 50% reduction and refused to move. We ended up going out of network with them for several months and finally a reasonable person at UHC came to the table. What they offered would have been at or below Medicare for reimbursement.

They use AI to score ER and IP claims for medical necessity, as if a computer can actually tell a patient needed treatment. They were denying ER claims when the patient came in with chest pain if it ended up being heart burn or other pain. Finally got them to back off that when I asked their exec team if they wanted us to give all patients with chest pain an alkaseltzer first and if they would pick up the legal bill when a law suit occurred. They do not care one bit about patients, just profit. Would love to see UHC and BCBS broken up.
P.H. Dexippus
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They know where he was living- hostel/public housing

https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-piece-unitedhealthcare-ceo-shooting-suspects-escape-route/story?id=116475329

Quote:

Police have also sought a search warrant for a hostel in New York City where they believe the suspect may have been staying, sources said.

It appears the suspect shared a room with two other men, according to police sources.

Detectives are currently canvassing other hostels and locations on the Upper West Side and beyond, showing the suspect's picture as they work to identify him.
MsDoubleD81
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That photo looks like a female.
Sid Farkas
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It's a dude

Inb4 this person was denied transition treatments by UHC.

Trans violence is a thing after all.
BMX Bandit
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Quote:

Inb4 this person was denied transition treatments by UHC.
if thats the case, this story will be memory-holed at break neck speed
TexasAggie_02
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MarkTwain said:

lunchbox said:




Different backpack different coat curious as to how they are tying this guy to the perp


Looks the same to me, just different white balance on the photos
MarkTwain
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TexasAggie_02 said:

MarkTwain said:

lunchbox said:




Different backpack different coat curious as to how they are tying this guy to the perp


Looks the same to me, just different white balance on the photos



Geez.

No upper front pockets on the masked perp coat

Backpack contrast is completely different

The new release is a black or dark charcoal backpack

The perp is light gray

White balance? Please






People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because hard men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
ABATTBQ11
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texagbeliever said:

agracer said:

texagbeliever said:

FancyKetchup14 said:

PA24 said:

Assassin is a cowardly job.
Running an insurance company that is more concerned with securing billions in profits than helping paying patients is more cowardly.

You are being too nice in the description of what insurance companies do.

1. They lobby congress to pass laws that protect their business and eliminate competition (if you think Obamacare wasn't written for big Healthcare you'd be wrong)
2. They likely use leverage of position to bully small individual private practicing doctors into bad deals (see posts on here)
3. They ADD NO VALUE to the medical process. None. They actively seek to make it more confusing. How can someone negotiate a $20k bill to $4k. It isn't because the hospital surcharge the insurance company (if the hospital isn't owned by the insurance).
For everyone claiming that insurance co. are driven by massive profits, Obamacare limited those profits through what is called a Medical Loss Ratio, which is set by law at 80% for small insurers, 85% for larger insurers.

The remaining 15/20% can be used for marketing, administration and profit.

All this did was make ins. co's increase their rates, co-pays and lower reimbursements to providers.

So what i said was right? Good information.

It is like a utility if you cap their margin % then the goal will be to spend money.


Not exactly. Most insurers were meeting the current MLR requirements even before Obamacare. It mostly affected smaller insurers who catered to the individual and small group markets.

Their net is only about 3.5%. Administrative overhead is about 11%-12%, which is actually pretty low. They're not exactly making money hand over fist, and Obamacare didn't do them any real favors from a profitability standpoint.

The negotiating and saving is all just a shell game between insurers and providers. A bill is always going to be in the same ballpark, regardless of who is paying. The only question is what portion you're paying.

What drives health insurance premiums and denials on larger claims is the collective insuring of all of the minor issues you go to a PCP for with low or no copays. That's death by 1000 cuts for insurers because it's basically guaranteed expenses that inflate their losses. They'll charge higher premiums to make up for the coverage and losses, and they'll deny larger claims because it requires less administrative burden for more return. If people would pay $125 2-5 times a year and go with much more basic catastrophic coverage instead of spending $300/mth to keep a $20 copay, everyone would be better off, but people don't seem to want that kind of savings because it covers with point of service sticker shock. Throwing money at insurance and only spending $20-$30 at the doctor makes healthcare feel cheaper, even if it isn't, and it's easier to blame insurers for their prices than their customers for what they're demanding.
stetson
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Tom Fox said:

The answer is simple. Eliminate health insurance government interference with health insurance. You pay cash when you are treated and let the free market dictate pricing.

It will be cheaper for everyone and save us trillions in tax revenue.
This is the answer.
FJB
AggieDruggist89
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MarkTwain said:

TexasAggie_02 said:

MarkTwain said:

lunchbox said:




Different backpack different coat curious as to how they are tying this guy to the perp


Looks the same to me, just different white balance on the photos



Geez.

No upper front pockets on the masked perp coat

Backpack contrast is completely different

The new release is a black or dark charcoal backpack

The perp is light gray

White balance? Please







Nose looks different. One with bridge and the other without.
ABATTBQ11
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MarkTwain said:

TexasAggie_02 said:

MarkTwain said:

lunchbox said:




Different backpack different coat curious as to how they are tying this guy to the perp


Looks the same to me, just different white balance on the photos



Geez.

No upper front pockets on the masked perp coat

Backpack contrast is completely different

The new release is a black or dark charcoal backpack

The perp is light gray

White balance? Please









Those might not be from the same day.
 
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