YouBet said:B-1 83 said:
This thread didn't age well.
They got smart and went back to O&G.
If they had been rational in the first place and not destroyed their own production, they never would have gotten here.
Who "went back to O&G"?
Say goodbye Germany, then the rest of the EU
86,509 Views |
749 Replies |
Last: 3 mo ago by Madman
Who "went back to O&G"?
No, I'm saying the Europeans were able to find alternative energy sources to counter the Russian threat quicker than was thought possible.Philip J Fry said:B-1 83 said:
Faster than naysayers thought possible.
Sorry, maybe I'm missing something. Are you suggesting the fed isn't wreaking havoc on the economy right now and they prices aren't coming down because the fed is destroying demand?
Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really
I'm sure it also had nothing to do with a warmer than expected winter.
Germany went back to the dirtiest fuel of them all….
Coal. And reluctantly re-opened I think 3 nuclear plants costing their tax base .5 trillion USD.
And they got lucky the winter was mild. No people didn't freeze but they broke the bank and all their carbon promises along the way.
Coal. And reluctantly re-opened I think 3 nuclear plants costing their tax base .5 trillion USD.
And they got lucky the winter was mild. No people didn't freeze but they broke the bank and all their carbon promises along the way.
The Green Dragon said:B-1 83 said:
This thread didn't age well.
Like in most things, we have no idea what's going to happen in this life.
This thread is premised on knowing what is going to happen (goodbye Germany, and then the rest of the EU), yet you take issue with the post questioning it rather than the post saying what is going to happen in this life.
Chuckle.
As an emergency measure, Berlin delayed a handful of nuke and coal plant shutdowns just to get thru this winter but placed a 2023 phase-out date on nuke power and actually accelerated its phase-out of coal from 2038 to 2030.La Bamba said:
Germany went back to the dirtiest fuel of them all….
Coal. And reluctantly re-opened I think 3 nuclear plants costing their tax base .5 trillion USD.
And they got lucky the winter was mild. No people didn't freeze but they broke the bank and all their carbon promises along the way.
A bit of good luck never hurts, but a mild winter is not the deciding factor.Philip J Fry said:
I'm sure it also had nothing to do with a warmer than expected winter.
The weather played a big part. It's also a myth that the sanctions have, net, worked. New Yorkers have been filling up using gas/diesel refined in India from (cheap) Russian oil. It turns out that a commodity is rapidly commoditized in the market. "Oil always finds a buyer."74OA said:A bit of good luck never hurts, but a mild winter is not the deciding factor.Philip J Fry said:
I'm sure it also had nothing to do with a warmer than expected winter.
Russian oil and gas sales for the year 2022 were not decimated by sanctions, by some measures even being up on the year (oil revenue). They are sending a lot more proportionately to China and India now. The truth is it isn't really a good 'gotcha' for internet message board purposes, but a little nuanced in terms of how the global market (including Saudi exports/pricing power) have been (and will be) hit by the Ukrainian war/sanctions etc.
Pushing China and Russia more closely together, frankly, is almost certainly not 'worth it' in the grand scheme of idiotic politics the US and Europe are seemingly both engaged in lately.
74OA said:
Here's a good update on the EU's situation for those still interested.
EUROPE'S ENERGY
You just don't get it, do you? In a nutshell, the conflict (aka proxy war with a nuclear armed power) you've been opining about for a year is the kick off to a world war. The Russians and Chinese are sick and tired of the crap the west has been pulling and are breaking away from the old financial system. Those kinds of moves aren't made overnight, yet since this thread was started in July 2022, we've seen events move at hyper speed in international political terms. Sides are clearly being drawn.
Europe got lucky w the weather. They didn't need the amount of energy they would need in a normal year. Plain and simple. It just postpones the inevitable collapse of the EU.
The moment Russia rolls west w 300,000 to 500,000 troops, energy markets will explode higher and the fuel reserves will be depleted as the EU mobilizes for war.
The Russians haven't forgotten that the west blew up Nordstream, sank their flagship in the Black Sea, attacked their nuke strike bombers, and attacked the Crimean Bridge. Nor are they impotent as you love to portray. They are dangerous and capable of inflicting great harm once the gloves come off. Nor are our forces invincible as you think they are.
There will be pay back probably something along the lines of attacking LNG ships as the arrive to ports throughout the EU amongst other things. A LNG ship exploding in a port or even anywhere close will look like a nuke went off. Congratulations you got the death and destruction you were hoping and cheering for….
Keep posting the daily propaganda though, I'm sure you're being paid very well for it.
Got it. You want a "discussion" board that presents only one point of view. I'm sure you're being paid just as well: <eye roll>.MuchosPollos said:74OA said:
Here's a good update on the EU's situation for those still interested.
EUROPE'S ENERGY
You just don't get it, do you? In a nutshell, the conflict (aka proxy war with a nuclear armed power) you've been opining about for a year is the kick off to a world war. The Russians and Chinese are sick and tired of the crap the west has been pulling and are breaking away from the old financial system. Those kinds of moves aren't made overnight, yet since this thread was started in July 2022, we've seen events move at hyper speed in international political terms. Sides are clearly being drawn.
Europe got lucky w the weather. They didn't need the amount of energy they would need in a normal year. Plain and simple. It just postpones the inevitable collapse of the EU.
The moment Russia rolls west w 300,000 to 500,000 troops, energy markets will explode higher and the fuel reserves will be depleted as the EU mobilizes for war.
The Russians haven't forgotten that the west blew up Nordstream, sank their flagship in the Black Sea, attacked their nuke strike bombers, and attacked the Crimean Bridge. Nor are they impotent as you love to portray. They are dangerous and capable of inflicting great harm once the gloves come off. Nor are our forces invincible as you think they are.
There will be pay back probably something along the lines of attacking LNG ships as the arrive to ports throughout the EU amongst other things. A LNG ship exploding in a port or even anywhere close will look like a nuke went off. Congratulations you got the death and destruction you were hoping and cheering for….
Keep posting the daily propaganda though, I'm sure you're being paid very well for it.
If you're going to accuse others of spouting propaganda, you might want to delete that claim.Quote:
The Russians haven't forgotten that the west blew up Nordstream,
Is Germany and the EU gone yet? Oh I see, it's inevitable.
So you're ok with a belligerent nation invading, murdering and causing chaos?
aTm '99
This issue was big after 9-11 and the following years.Quote:
There will be pay back probably something along the lines of attacking LNG ships as the arrive to ports throughout the EU amongst other things. A LNG ship exploding in a port or even anywhere close will look like a nuke went off.
It's a bit ironic we are discussing Germany and China in this thread, but that is a retort intended toward those who are unafraid of Russia. In all seriousness, that is a weak, weak straw man argument.AlaskanAg99 said:
So you're ok with a belligerent nation invading, murdering and causing chaos?
What is inarguable throughout both this thread and over the course of the past 10+ years under Merkel (and Obama/Biden, including Hunter the Chinese-Ukrainian energy expert) is that Germany had married itself up to both (a) Russian dependency and (b) green energy. It has, consequently to Biden's feckless weakness that begat the Russian invasion of Ukraine, committed an astronomical $200 billion subsidy program as a 'shield' to energy prices spiking due to their sanctions/said dependency on Russia.
Quote:
Germany will spend more than $18 billion on its lavish electricity price cap and transmission network subsidies through May of this year, a German government document seen by Reuters has shown.
Germany's electricity price cap will cost it considerably, estimated at $14.5 billion euro, or $15.75 billionand that's just the cost through May. In addition to those charges, Germany will spend an additional 2.14 billion euros on subsidizing transmission network costs over the next two months alone, Finance State
Secretary Florian Toncar said in a Tuesday letter to the lower house of parliament's budget committee.
The electricity price capa measure taken to relieve the extreme price pressure on electricity consumerswill be entirely funded by the German government. The costs of the electricity planwhich is set to last until April 2024--are expected to far exceed the $18 billion it will spend just through this May.
The spending plan must now gain approval from the German parliament's budget committee, expected on Wednesday.
In November, Germany hashed a plan to spend as much as $82.8 billion on funding the electricity price cap for all of 2023. But even this is just a fraction of the total planned $199 billion "defensive shield" that Germany said it would deploy to help consumers and companies weather the high cost of energy.
This didn't hurt Russia, it hurt, and will continue to hurt Germans. Again, they spent $5,400 per person to keep the lights on last year, nominally to cap Russian gas revenues to 20 percent less than the year before. That's a big globalist win, clearly, to those who think foreign policy is best analyzed/understood by George Soros think tanks. Ultimately, if this is winning, what does losing look like?
GAC06 said:
Is Germany and the EU gone yet? Oh I see, it's inevitable.
To be fair, he didn't say when we'd be saying "goodbye" to Germany and the EU.
And then apparently, the rest of the world too.
I do think we can all agree that Germany completely mismanaged their country's energy strategy and resources under Merkel. Reality then decided to show up and show them the error of their ways.
It's still funny to me that Trump told them this, was laughed at by everyone, and then was quickly proven correct. It's a real-time lesson in basic economics and common sense that many have still not learned.
It's still funny to me that Trump told them this, was laughed at by everyone, and then was quickly proven correct. It's a real-time lesson in basic economics and common sense that many have still not learned.
AlaskanAg99 said:
So you're ok with a belligerent nation invading, murdering and causing chaos?
No I'm not ok with it nor am I cheering for Russia. But we don't have clean hands in Ukraine. This started under Obama in 2014. Had theRussians done the same in Mexico or Canada, we would have had the same response.
What happened in Libya and who started it?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/jun/22/libya-war-kinetic-military-action
Sorry to burst your bubble but the "US is completely innocent and should be able to do whatever it wants" narrative isn't true…….
Now do Israel. Should they be able to attack their neighbors whenever and for whatever they want?
MuchosPollos said:AlaskanAg99 said:
So you're ok with a belligerent nation invading, murdering and causing chaos?
No I'm not ok with it nor am I cheering for Russia. But we don't have clean hands in Ukraine. This started under Obama in 2014. Had theRussians done the same in Mexico or Canada, we would have had the same response.
What happened in Libya and who started it?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/jun/22/libya-war-kinetic-military-action
Sorry to burst your bubble but the "US is completely innocent and should be able to do whatever it wants" narrative isn't true…….
Now do Israel. Should they be able to attack their neighbors whenever and for whatever they want?
I never said we're "innocent". We have the opportunity to degrade a major power at zero risk of American lives.. I'm fully aware of Russias position and a fine line needs to be threaded to avoid a nuclear escalation in the hopes someone inside Russia takes Putin out.
They cannot sustain this level of war for long.
aTm '99
Ummm...where is Russia going to get 500k battle ready troops? I am very curious. How Russia is going to attack Europe?
MaroonStain said:
Ummm...where is Russia going to get 500k battle ready troops? I am very curious. How Russia is going to attack Europe?
Consider your audience. The collapse of the EU was a sure thing seven months ago. Russia is somehow stronger after getting their teeth kicked in for months. Now they're ready for NATO
I'm not convinced an LNG ship would explode. AFAIK it has never happened and even accidentally, if it were prone to happen, it would have by now. Plenty of regular tankers have exploded. I think it is too cold to explode. I dokt remember all of the specifics but I did sail on one for a summer and have a license to be a tankerman on one, although I never used it. Been over a decade, but that is what I recall.
twk said:If you're going to accuse others of spouting propaganda, you might want to delete that claim.Quote:
The Russians haven't forgotten that the west blew up Nordstream,
Well, in their defense, Biden literally said we would. So there's that.
Putting a missile or torpedo laden with high explosives into its side would help.
There's not a zero risk. Play it out.
The Russians are all in on this. They won't back down. Not after what we've done to their economy, pride and military. Either they win or we do.
American lives aren't under fire today but can change in a heartbeat if the Russians don't have any options left or more importantly think it's time to strike on a much broader battlefield.
The Russians are all in on this. They won't back down. Not after what we've done to their economy, pride and military. Either they win or we do.
American lives aren't under fire today but can change in a heartbeat if the Russians don't have any options left or more importantly think it's time to strike on a much broader battlefield.
They spent the last year mobilizing their country for a wider war. Troops readied, population readied, politicians readied.
300K called up in partial mobilization
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/21/russia-ukraine-war-putin-announces-partial-military-mobilization.html
Putin approves Russias budget for 3 years: one third goes on war
Russian President Vladimir Putin has signed the law on Russia's federal budget for 2023 and a planned period of 2024-2025; it includes increased expenses for law enforcement officers and the war in Ukraine.
This is reported by Forbes Russia.
The latter expenses will amount to over 9 trillion roubles [approximately US$145.182 billion ed.] in 2023, or 32% of the entire budget.
https://news.yahoo.com/putin-approves-russias-budget-3-172335448.html
Putin: 80 years on, we are facing German tanks again
Vladimir Putin has compared Russia's invasion of Ukraine to the fight against Nazi Germany, in a speech to mark the 80th anniversary of the conclusion of the Battle of Stalingrad.
Citing Germany's decision to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine, he claimed history was repeating itself.
"It's unbelievable but true," he said. "We are again being threatened by German Leopard tanks."
https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/world/2023-02-02-putin-80-years-on-we-are-facing-german-tanks-again/
Those aren't signs of a country or leader that is going to back down anytime soon. Once the war machine gets rolling, it's really hard to stop.
BTW Got to love the incompetence of the west making a big deal about sending German tanks into the battle and saying it was a great idea. US aid is one thing, the German equipment is a whole other level. The Russians lost over 20 million people in WW2 largely due to the Germans. The stories of death and destruction have been passed down from generation to generation and taught in every classroom. Do you think there is a better battle cry to rally the population behind Putin than saying the Germans are at it again? It's like saying the Muslims are going to attack NYC again but on a much much larger scale. Freaking brilliant move to hand him a bullhorn……
300K called up in partial mobilization
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/21/russia-ukraine-war-putin-announces-partial-military-mobilization.html
Putin approves Russias budget for 3 years: one third goes on war
Russian President Vladimir Putin has signed the law on Russia's federal budget for 2023 and a planned period of 2024-2025; it includes increased expenses for law enforcement officers and the war in Ukraine.
This is reported by Forbes Russia.
The latter expenses will amount to over 9 trillion roubles [approximately US$145.182 billion ed.] in 2023, or 32% of the entire budget.
https://news.yahoo.com/putin-approves-russias-budget-3-172335448.html
Putin: 80 years on, we are facing German tanks again
Vladimir Putin has compared Russia's invasion of Ukraine to the fight against Nazi Germany, in a speech to mark the 80th anniversary of the conclusion of the Battle of Stalingrad.
Citing Germany's decision to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine, he claimed history was repeating itself.
"It's unbelievable but true," he said. "We are again being threatened by German Leopard tanks."
https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/world/2023-02-02-putin-80-years-on-we-are-facing-german-tanks-again/
Those aren't signs of a country or leader that is going to back down anytime soon. Once the war machine gets rolling, it's really hard to stop.
BTW Got to love the incompetence of the west making a big deal about sending German tanks into the battle and saying it was a great idea. US aid is one thing, the German equipment is a whole other level. The Russians lost over 20 million people in WW2 largely due to the Germans. The stories of death and destruction have been passed down from generation to generation and taught in every classroom. Do you think there is a better battle cry to rally the population behind Putin than saying the Germans are at it again? It's like saying the Muslims are going to attack NYC again but on a much much larger scale. Freaking brilliant move to hand him a bullhorn……
MuchosPollos said:
Putting a missile or torpedo laden with high explosives into its side would help.
Yea the torpedo would explode, but I am pretty sure the LNG would just burn. It can't vaporize fast enough to explode. Again. That is my recollection, could be wrong here but I dont think you can turn an LNG ship in to a nuke.
Quote:
BTW Got to love the incompetence of the west making a big deal about sending German tanks into the battle and saying it was a great idea. US aid is one thing, the German equipment is a whole other level.
Ukraine has been using German equipment from the very beginning. Russia has been pushing the ludicrous "de-nazification" nonsense since the very beginning. Modern tanks are much more likely to help Ukraine than Russia through more propaganda nonsense. Given how poorly your predictions have gone throughout this thread, maybe take a step back.
I give you the link to the speech and a direct quote from Putin on the anniversary of the Battle of Stalingrad. I'm not making it up….. He's using the German tanks as a rallying cry for his country. It's a shame you're not able to connect the dots.
It's not what you believe that matters, it's what they believe that really matters. The Russians are a paranoid bunch for good reason. I'm sure we'd be the same if we lost 20 million in WW2 and were being threatened again.
It's not what you believe that matters, it's what they believe that really matters. The Russians are a paranoid bunch for good reason. I'm sure we'd be the same if we lost 20 million in WW2 and were being threatened again.
MaroonStain said:
Ummm...where is Russia going to get 500k battle ready troops? I am very curious. How Russia is going to attack Europe?
They won't need to. According the to OP we'll say goodbye to Germany and the EU soon. Russia shouldn't even need troops.
MuchosPollos said:
I give you the link to the speech and a direct quote from Putin on the anniversary of the Battle of Stalingrad. I'm not making it up….. He's using the German tanks as a rallying cry for his country. It's a shame you're not able to connect the dots.
It's not what you believe that matters, it's what they believe that really matters. The Russians are a paranoid bunch for good reason. I'm sure we'd be the same if we lost 20 million in WW2 and were being threatened again.
I didn't doubt that he said it. I'm questioning your take that it's a mistake by the west to provide the tanks. I guess if he really wants to bring up WWII he can point out some of the antique weapons his mobilized cannon fodder are equipped with. Leopards versus T-62's should be interesting.
Oh and Russia isn't being threatened. They can go home whenever they want.
J. Walter Weatherman said:MaroonStain said:
Ummm...where is Russia going to get 500k battle ready troops? I am very curious. How Russia is going to attack Europe?
They won't need to. According the to OP we'll say goodbye to Germany and the EU soon. Russia shouldn't even need troops.
Should happen "soon" /OP back in October
MuchosPollos said:74OA said:
Here's a good update on the EU's situation for those still interested.
EUROPE'S ENERGY
The moment Russia rolls west w 300,000 to 500,000 troops, energy markets will explode higher and the fuel reserves will be depleted
Pretty sure Russia does not even 300,000 pairs of combat boots much less soldiers to fill them and the Russians aren't rolling anywher
HTH
Another round of conscription may lead to large numbers of draft eligible Russians "rolling" to whatever countries will let them in. Again.
Featured Stories
See All
9:11
14h ago
17k
42:45
22h ago
4.7k
The Good Ol' Days: Reminiscing on Texas A&M's magical spring of '89
by David Sandhop