Bayside Tiger Ag said:

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That's a good point. The prequels at least told the Skywalker story. TLJ told us none of it mattered anyway

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That is not true. It told us that you don't have to be a Skywalker to matter going forward. That is not the same as saying "the Skywalkers don't matter and the old movies don't matter"

I don't understand the significance of Rey not being a Skywalker. I'm not seeing anyone upset with that specifically. TFA set up that there might be some importance to her parents but that's it. It was a letdown that there wasn't something interesting about them. I didn't care for the reveal in TLJ because it was boring, not because she isn't a Skywalker.

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Ridiculous and nonsensical waste of the best actor to ever appear in the franchise.

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Which actor is this?

Overall I thought it was a good Star Wars film, just not a great one that left me with the 'wow' factor.

What I enjoyed:

Kylo Ren's character arc. After seeing him kill my favorite Star Wars character in the TFA...they successfully made me sympathetic to how he became Kylo and sucked me into wondering about his true motive...and then quickly turning and making him the ultimate villain that did what Anakin could not: kill off his master so he could rule the galaxy. Not to mention taking part in one of the best light saber battles of the entire series, teamed up with Rey. Wow. Could not have been written better, and it sucked me in. And I definitely think he's lying to Rey about her parents. He's lied and manipulated at every turn. Far more clever than Anakin. I like the direction this is going.

Rey's character arc. While some are criticizing it for not being more like who she was in TFA, I can see real growth here. You see her looking deeper...with no better example than Kylo, who she went from calling a monster, to believing he could be turned. She steps into the main hero's role as she saves the last of the resistance...and appears to become the one to lead and train others moving forward. She goes from girl to hero in this film. Obviously there's a lot of attention to the whole "female lead hero" thing with this new trilogy, but I think her character is beyond that...Daisy Ridley makes her a hero that anyone can appreciate and look up to.

Poe's character arc. Some are upset with the whole 'scolding' thing, but I don't think there was any agenda there. Poe has always been a 'going in guns blazing' kind of guy, and we see it finally catch up with him. The criticism from Leia and Holdo wasn't about underlying gender agendas, it was about experience. They were seasoned leaders trying to teach the young 'fly boy' to one day take their place. Even Holdo admits to Leia she likes him. And you see the growth of his character from warrior to leader/warrior. Yet he still has that Han Solo 'let's blow something up' persona, with the sarcasm thrown in. I love how he toyed with Hux in the opening scene. I'm a huge fan of his character.

Lightspeed torpedo...wow...stunning visuals. Completely unexpected. One of the top moments in Star Wars history.

Laura Dern: My 9-year-old self had the biggest crush on her when I saw Jurassic Park. 25 years later, she looks like she's maybe aged a decade. I kind of wish they'd kept her around for the next film, but I can see where they're going with Poe to eventually take over.

Luke: I thought this was a more authentic take on the Jedi than previous films. Before, the Jedi were almost placed with god-like status. Luke shows the flaws and imperfections, that even Jedi make mistakes and have to live with consequences. They're just like everyone else. The scene with R2 playing the original message from Leia that started it all...wow...got choked up there.

BB8: Best droid ever. I love the scene where he starts firing on the stormtroopers to save Finn and Rose. They've made him unique, not just 'another R2'. He's both more lovable, funnier, and more badass all at the same time.

Yoda: I was secretly hoping they would work him into this one. I'm sure it was mostly a nod to the fans and not a critical part of the story, but seeing him there to council Luke was a special moment. It could also potentially be foreshadowing of things to come, with 'force ghosts' still having the power to do things in the real world.

Chewie: Loved seeing him pilot the Falcon. After all those years with one of the best pilots in the galaxy, you'd expect him to be one of the best. And it's a nice nod to Han. He's the perfect side-kick character.

The kids: Seeing the seeds of a new resistance was a nice touch, and I'm sure one of the underlying themes they wanted to emphasize. Anybody can be a hero and fight evil. I like the way they left it.


What I did not like:

Rose: I didn't like her character from the moment she came on screen. It seemed very forced. Too much screen time for such a critical film when they could have used that time for greater depth on other characters and aspects of the plot. I suspect her character is a result of the stigma of the original trilogy lacking so many female roles. Again, very forced.

Maz: Completely wasted scene. Offered very little to the story. I guess they had to throw her in there somehow, and they just weren't sure what to do with her character. I don't mind her being one of the new mentor-like characters for Rey...but her scene was silly.

Not utilizing Finn's character enough: I loved Finn's character in TFA. He was funny, blunt, and wide-eyed...and we saw his character grow from the beginning to the end when he had the light saber battle with Kylo. I just didnt get that from this film...it's almost as if they weren't sure what to do with him. His battle with Phasma was too short, and lacked the intensity of his battle with Kylo. Pairing him with Rose took away from his character and made him look a bit aloof. And I hate that, because I really like what Boyega brings to the series. I wanted to see him in another intense battle. I hope we get that in Ep9.

Not utilizing Benicio Del Toro enough. His character was kind of a mystery, and seemed out of place most of the time. I like the idea of casting him, but felt like they could have used him better.

Flying Leia. I love the comment earlier from the poster about his little girl saying 'I'm Mary Poppins y'all!'. Seemed out of place for her character, as she's never been a user of the force. I just don't know how they're going to write her off in Ep9. I'm sure out of respect for Carrie, they didn't want to kill her off...but it would have made more sense.

Snoke: I liked the idea of Snoke as a powerful supreme leader, and Kylo killing him off, but his character felt too brief. If he'd had more screen time and background in Ep7, I think it works. But they tried to play up his power in this film and then quickly kill him off, and it just seemed odd. I'd rather see Kylo anyway.

Seeing Luke in a true battle: I agree with others that say they felt a bit cheated with this. I understand the rationale for Luke not physically being there in the last battle...how was he going to all of a sudden get all the way there? But it would have been nice to see him use the full power of the force at least once, in person. I can see where they didn't want to upstage Rey, because she's the hero of this trilogy. But still. Like the Yoda appearance, it would have been nice to see Luke more in battle for the fan's sake.


Overall I think TLJ is a good Star Wars movie. I would put it just beneath the original trilogy, RO, and TFA. WAY better than the prequels. And maybe I'll appreciate it more with time. I haven't had my second viewing yet. With RO, I had to see it a second time to really appreciate the arc of the story because I went into it with an 'original trilogy' mindset. Maybe that's the case here too.

Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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Ridiculous and nonsensical waste of the best actor to ever appear in the franchise.

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Which actor is this?

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Obi wan?

wesag said:

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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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Quote:

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Ridiculous and nonsensical waste of the best actor to ever appear in the franchise.

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Which actor is this?

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Obi wan?

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I think the poster is specifically talking about The Last Jedi ... so no to Harrison Ford, Alec Guiness, Ewan MacGregor ... who in The Last Jedi would be considered the best actor to appear in the series? Andy Serkis for his ability to "portray" various non-human characters across a wide range of movies?

It is not heads above the prequels except in acting. I watched portions of v Attack of the Clones last night. There are some good scenes in there. There isn't a sequence from The Last Jedi that I would put up there as memorable or impactful in the long term. Snoke fight? Forgone conclusion. Rey and Kylo? Not half bad but that is because the scenes are better than the rest of the movie in a relative sense.

I have so many thoughts still about this movie, but I just don't care to type them all out. What does that say about how good or bad it was?

wesag said:

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It is not heads above the prequels except in acting. I watched portions of v Attack of the Clones last night. There are some good scenes in there. There isn't a sequence from The Last Jedi that I would put up there as memorable or impactful in the long term. Snoke fight? Forgone conclusion. Rey and Kylo? Not half bad but that is because the scenes are better than the rest of the movie in a relative sense.

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I understand where you're coming from and I do think the prequels get too harsh of a treatment.

That being said, I would still put TLJ pretty far ahead of the prequels because of the cinematography. The prequels have a "Halo-video game" feel to them because of the heavy CGI. The new trilogy feels so much more real.

redline248 said:

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I have so many thoughts still about this movie, but I just don't care to type them all out. What does that say about how good or bad it was?

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That's legit.

Fans talking all these specific plot points, all the while Rian, JJ and Disney don't give a damn. They're counting that Star Wars money.

People ooing and aahing about the ship hitting the other at light speed. Next scene the ship isn't destroyed. Just some alarms going off.

Gigem314 said:

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wesag said:

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It is not heads above the prequels except in acting. I watched portions of v Attack of the Clones last night. There are some good scenes in there. There isn't a sequence from The Last Jedi that I would put up there as memorable or impactful in the long term. Snoke fight? Forgone conclusion. Rey and Kylo? Not half bad but that is because the scenes are better than the rest of the movie in a relative sense.

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I understand where you're coming from and I do think the prequels get too harsh of a treatment.

That being said, I would still put TLJ pretty far ahead of the prequels because of the cinematography. The prequels have a Halo or video game feel to them because of the heavy CGI. The new trilogy feels so much more real.

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I get that. I despise CG.

Considering what Disney owns now this is what episode 9 should be.

02skiag said:

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Reading comments from Pablo's twitter posts, I see a pattern in those that enjoyed the movie. The praise is all about how the movie made you think and challenged you. They really appreciated that there is an overall theme. I think if I was college age again, I may agree with that view. At that age I was always searching for deeper philosophical views.

What I don't get though is that to me there really was no thinking required. Those themes and messages were all on the nose with this movie. It seems like those that like the movie think highly of themselves for "getting it" and think others just didn't understand. That couldn't be further from the truth though.

Lastly, I personally went into the movie to be primarily entertained by Star Wars. I didn't come for some message (which required zero thought to get). If a movie is firstly entertaining THEN an accompanying message/theme can turn it into a great movie. An example for me is GOT2. To me it was entertaining and had a nice theme as well.

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And I think that's one of the problems with this movie. Rian Johnson was trying to make Star Wars more cerebral than it needs to be. Hamill nailed it in one of those interviews. There needs to be a simple beginning, middle, and end without interjecting subtle SJW crap, completely dismissing out of hand formerly major cliff-hangers, but then promoting nonsensical other elements of the story.

Also, ironically, there was an extreme lack of diversity in aliens in this film compared to previous entries. There was one notable Resistance alien in this film and even then I have no idea what his name was. Ackbar should have been given the honor of taking out that ship. He's a freaking film cult hero for Christ's sake. Our friends at Ole Miss even voted to name their mascot after him!!!

Del toro. Guy is awesome but was cardboard here.

Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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Quote:

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Ridiculous and nonsensical waste of the best actor to ever appear in the franchise.

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Which actor is this?

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If referring to TLJ...assume he's talking about Benicio Del Toro?
Also if referring to "franchise" as all 8 episodes combined...Harrison Ford comes to mind as the best actor.

I do agree though, seems Benicio Del Toro role was rather small compared to the hype (him joining the cast) received.

Del toro is imo the more charismatic guy, but certainly ford had better chops in the industry. They pretty well wasted him in tfa, though overall that was a really good movie. This movie they wasted everyone except maybe Rey. But del toro could have really added a lot and again- he was cardboard.

Mark Hamill has some thoughts on Luke's storyline

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mark-hamill-rips-role-apos-145123576.html

Latest jedi council. I wonder if they liked this movie? If it made them "think" enough so we can all turn star wars into an intellectual phd conversation.

My guess - they say we need to see it twice - because we all know... you have to see a movie twice before you realize you really love it!

I think when people say you should see it twice is because the direction it goes is such a drastic change than what we expected.
Most expected Jedi Master Luke to train Rey and to save the resistance with his lightsaber and other force powers to destroy the enemy. This film doesn't go in the direction most thought. Once you get over your personal expectations of how you thought it would go and have accepted it, you can enjoy it more. And you can take a bathroom break during the Canto Scene

Its been two days since I've seen it. Still super depressed and disappointed.

This one is hilarious:

And I agree with the comment saying these "critics" and people like Pablo HIdalgo are basically saying it's our fault for wanting a good movie.

02skiag said:

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Reading comments from Pablo's twitter posts, I see a pattern in those that enjoyed the movie. The praise is all about how the movie made you think and challenged you. They really appreciated that there is an overall theme. I think if I was college age again, I may agree with that view. At that age I was always searching for deeper philosophical views.

What I don't get though is that to me there really was no thinking required. Those themes and messages were all on the nose with this movie. It seems like those that like the movie think highly of themselves for "getting it" and think others just didn't understand. That couldn't be further from the truth though.

Lastly, I personally went into the movie to be primarily entertained by Star Wars. I didn't come for some message (which required zero thought to get). If a movie is firstly entertaining THEN an accompanying message/theme can turn it into a great movie. An example for me is GOT2. To me it was entertaining and had a nice theme as well.

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So... TLJ is the baseball of Star Wars

vwbug said:

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This one is hilarious:

And I agree with the comment saying these "critics" and people like Pablo HIdalgo are basically saying it's our fault for wanting a good movie.

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Like I said, it's like blaming a woman for not wanting to be harassed.