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aggiejim70
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In reply to A New Hope • 4:20p, 5/30/20
AG
I've been an active AA member and haven't had drink since 2/26/91, so forgive me if I disagree with your bs comment. That being said, your post about your BIL is borderline spooky for want of a better word. My last meeting was at 12:15 today and I got roped into chairing, My topic was the first three paragraphs of page 30 of the Big Book. If you have copy I invite you to look it up. 80 plus years down the road and my story and that of your BIL are both testimony to the wisdom and insight of the founders of AA, the people that wrote the book.
The person that is not willing to fight and die, if need be, for his country has no right to life.

James Earl Rudder '32
January 31, 1945
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RickSawyer
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In reply to A New Hope • 4:50p, 5/30/20
AG
Fedup said:
I told her, he'd be better off just drinking. Why bother. Not sure what al Anon teaches but it's bs.


With all do respect, you couldn't be more wrong. AA has been absolutely instrumental in the recovery of MILLIONS of people from addiction. It's saved lives, families, marriages... It heals people who are on the most destructive paths.

You are entitled to you opinion but that doesn't mean your opinion isn't completely moronic.

-Rick
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Smokedraw01
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3:53a, 5/31/20
I have no experience with alcoholism but I find inspiration in the work people with substance abuse put in. A few years ago I was listening to Dax Shepherd's podcast and he was interviewing Gordon Keith. That episode is my favorite for a number of reason but the reflection from Dax moved me that day and I've listened to that episode at least half a dozen times.
Quote:
His friend Gordon Keith found his AA Big Book with his sobriety dates crossed off. "I'm embarrassed how many times I quit and couldn't do it. He sees someone who just won't quit. He starts crying, I get emotional. I'm proud of myself for the first time that I didn't quit. To truly be powerless over something is demoralizing. [His optimism] affected me. You didn't die from this. A lot of us do."


I hope I didn't offend anyone or cross any line but keep working on getting better because you never know who you'll inspire to change their life in any number of areas.
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Mule_lx
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11:38a, 6/1/20
AG
I just found this thread. I did it without AA or much support, but today is day 518 for me.
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Mule_lx
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11:38a, 6/1/20
AG
I just found this thread. I did it without AA or much support, but today is day 518 for me. It feels really good to say that.
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A New Hope
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In reply to RickSawyer • 4:42p, 6/1/20
RickSawyer said:
Fedup said:
I told her, he'd be better off just drinking. Why bother. Not sure what al Anon teaches but it's bs.


With all do respect, you couldn't be more wrong. AA has been absolutely instrumental in the recovery of MILLIONS of people from addiction. It's saved lives, families, marriages... It heals people who are on the most destructive paths.

You are entitled to you opinion but that doesn't mean your opinion isn't completely moronic.

-Rick
I guess you're downright stupid then. He was a life long alcoholic with a dead liver so to stop drinking one week before he died made absolutely zero difference In his life Or death. For my wife to be banking her entire al Anon existence on that was nonsense.

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ptothemo
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In reply to A New Hope • 4:58p, 6/1/20
AG
1) Please cut the insulting tone. It is very apparent that you are mad, frustrated, sad, or any number of emotions, but coming in here and slinging mud at people and programs you don't believe in is severely misguided.

2) Al-Anon does not exist to get people to stop drinking. It exists to support those who are family, friends, or otherwise associated with someone who has a drinking problem. One of the key fundamentals of any recovery program, including AA, is that the person with the addiction has to want to address the addiction themselves. No other person, no matter what they do or how hard they try, can do that for them. To that end, your wife could have attended Al-Anon to the end of time and back and her brother would not have stopped drinking. Unless he chose to stop. Recognizing that there is no osmosis occurring through attendance to Al-Anon, and other similar programs for those who are close with someone else who is either actively in addiction or recovering from it, there is no misconception that the program will make the loved one change. It is simply and solely designed to provide support through community for those were or are affected by addiction.

3) Attempting to extrapolate your personal experience to the entirety of AA or Al-Anon is just plain wrong. I am sorry for the loss in your family, and I know that it hurts. But, trying to trash programs that have been around forever and done a lot of good for many people based on the hurt of your experience is not helping anyone.

4) if you want to have an above the bar conversation about these things, then let's do that. If you want to flame and sling negativity and just say whatever you want behind a screen name, then this thread is not for you.
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ptothemo
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In reply to Mule_lx • 5:01p, 6/1/20
AG
Mule_lx said:
I just found this thread. I did it without AA or much support, but today is day 518 for me. It feels really good to say that.
Hey, you picked a hell of a time to find it, glad you're here! Very well done on the 518, keep up the good work!
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aggiejim70
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In reply to A New Hope • 5:29p, 6/1/20
AG
You've thrown a number of terms around in your two posts. Before I get started with a response, there needs to be a disclaimer. If there are any hard core al-anons on here, I know when an AA starts talking about Al-Anon there's always the danger of misspeaking. Kind of like calling someone an ex-Aggie or ex-Marine

If your wife was a member of Al-Anon, a totally sperate organization from Alcoholics Anonymous, that was for her benifit and had nothing to do with help for your BIL If she has been a member for over 30 years, I hope she has and will continue to benefit from her membership.

Don't be too hard on Rick, he's still in the evangelistic stage of recovery. Most of us have been through that. He felt he had to let you have it, both barrels. This too shall pass.
The person that is not willing to fight and die, if need be, for his country has no right to life.

James Earl Rudder '32
January 31, 1945
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Mule_lx
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6:15p, 6/1/20
AG
Well, I read about two pages and felt, cool only my wife knows, I'll share that I've struggled in a horrible way and am doing well now.

I didn't know I was getting in the middle of a fight. Please excuse me.
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ptothemo
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In reply to Mule_lx • 6:30p, 6/1/20
AG
I was being sarcastic in a lighthearted way before but can see that didn't come across as well as I intended. My fault there. You do not need to be excused at all, and the reason that you mentioned that you posted is exactly what this thread is typically for. Don't worry about the other business, it happens occasionally but is very much the exception and not the rule.

I'm happy that you posted up, and please don't let my not so well delivered sarcasm make you feel anything otherwise.
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aggiejim70
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6:39p, 6/1/20
AG
Well ARMY, if nothing else, we got the thread started up again!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The person that is not willing to fight and die, if need be, for his country has no right to life.

James Earl Rudder '32
January 31, 1945
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A New Hope
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In reply to ptothemo • 7:57p, 6/1/20
ptothemo said:
1) Please cut the insulting tone. It is very apparent that you are mad, frustrated, sad, or any number of emotions, but coming in here and slinging mud at people and programs you don't believe in is severely misguided.

2) Al-Anon does not exist to get people to stop drinking. It exists to support those who are family, friends, or otherwise associated with someone who has a drinking problem. One of the key fundamentals of any recovery program, including AA, is that the person with the addiction has to want to address the addiction themselves. No other person, no matter what they do or how hard they try, can do that for them. To that end, your wife could have attended Al-Anon to the end of time and back and her brother would not have stopped drinking. Unless he chose to stop. Recognizing that there is no osmosis occurring through attendance to Al-Anon, and other similar programs for those who are close with someone else who is either actively in addiction or recovering from it, there is no misconception that the program will make the loved one change. It is simply and solely designed to provide support through community for those were or are affected by addiction.

3) Attempting to extrapolate your personal experience to the entirety of AA or Al-Anon is just plain wrong. I am sorry for the loss in your family, and I know that it hurts. But, trying to trash programs that have been around forever and done a lot of good for many people based on the hurt of your experience is not helping anyone.

4) if you want to have an above the bar conversation about these things, then let's do that. If you want to flame and sling negativity and just say whatever you want behind a screen name, then this thread is not for you.
At what point did I make any mention of AA?? I mentioned al Anon, a completely different group of people. And for my opinions and first hand view, you attacked me as being moronic. Good luck in your Sobriety. Sounds like you're going to need it.
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RickSawyer
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In reply to aggiejim70 • 8:37p, 6/1/20
AG
aggiejim70 said:

Don't be too hard on Rick, he's still in the evangelistic stage of recovery. Most of us have been through that. He felt he had to let you have it, both barrels. This too shall pass.


You're right Jim. I am just about 5 years in on my path and god willing will have another day under the belt today. You're definitely an inspiration for many of us Jim, whether you know it or not.

FedUp,

I apologize if I offended you. We are all entitled to our opinions and feelings. I was defending an organization that has a core goal of helping people through bad ***** I won't apologize for that, BUT I definitely didn't need to call your opinion moronic.

I hope over time you can recognize the good that these organizations do and the support they offer to addicts and loved ones.

Peace!

-Rick
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A New Hope
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In reply to RickSawyer • 8:43p, 6/1/20
RickSawyer said:
aggiejim70 said:

Don't be too hard on Rick, he's still in the evangelistic stage of recovery. Most of us have been through that. He felt he had to let you have it, both barrels. This too shall pass.


You're right Jim. I am just about 5 years in on my path and god willing will have another day under the belt today.

I apologize if I offended you FedUp. We are all entitled to our opinions and feelings. I was defending an organization that has a core goal of helping people through bad ***** I won't apologize for that. I didn't need to call your opinion moronic.

I hope over time you can recognize the good that these organizations do and the support they offer to addicts and lived ones.

Peace!

-Rick


My point is and was that some of these organizations lose completely the focus or intent...when my wife spends thousands of hours over 30 years of her life devoted to al anon Teachings only to culminate with some delusional idea that as long as her brother stopped drinking before he died, that everything would be ok...then there's some disconnect within that organization and its teachings. As I told her at the time. I guarantee you...he'll stop drinking because once his ammonia level gets high enough, he won't drink again. She never understood and to this day thinks EVERY SINGLE PERSON on this planet is an alcoholic whether dry or wet, there's something wrong with that organization.
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Mule_lx
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In reply to ptothemo • 8:54p, 6/1/20
AG
Oh I'm not easily offended. I read two really encouraging pages and posted. Then, I read what was going on on the last page. Yup, that always happens to me. Always late to the party haha.
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aggiejim70
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In reply to A New Hope • 10:14p, 6/1/20
AG
As stated earlier, I'm in my 30th year of recovery and way north of 4000 meetings. In virtually every one of them someone says something about sharing experience, strength, and hope. Suffice to say my experience with Al-Anon differs from that of you and your wife. Give me a couple of days, I'm going run your statements by some of my Al-Anon buddies.

We're all Aggies here, so please don't think I'm questioning the truthfulness of your statements, it's just that's so different from my experience that I want get more information.
The person that is not willing to fight and die, if need be, for his country has no right to life.

James Earl Rudder '32
January 31, 1945
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1997aggies
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6:52a, 6/6/20
AG
I am done drinking. Last night, for the second time in 2 months, I got drunk and blew up in anger around friends and family. I am at an all time low right now and am filled with enormous regret. I know I need help. I know that I would not have behaved the way I did had alcohol not been involved. The cons of drinking have become way more than the pros. Therefore, I know that I am done drinking.
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Vernada
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In reply to 1997aggies • 8:23a, 6/6/20
Dddfff
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In reply to 1997aggies • 8:30a, 6/6/20
AG
Are you going to get help or go to meetings
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aggiejim70
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In reply to 1997aggies • 9:28a, 6/6/20
AG
Aggie, you're where I was the morning of 2/26/91. You can look up the details on my prior posts. Educated guess is you're suffering the tortures of the damned and working up the courage to tell your friends and family " I'm sorry, I swear I'll never do it again". Just like you did the last time and all the times before that.

You say you know you need some help. Then get some. If not though AA, and by the way, we know we have an answer for you, then get it somewhere else. All the best.

The person that is not willing to fight and die, if need be, for his country has no right to life.

James Earl Rudder '32
January 31, 1945
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wbt5845
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In reply to 1997aggies • 3:16p, 6/6/20
AG
1997aggies said:
I am done drinking. Last night, for the second time in 2 months, I got drunk and blew up in anger around friends and family. I am at an all time low right now and am filled with enormous regret. I know I need help. I know that I would not have behaved the way I did had alcohol not been involved. The cons of drinking have become way more than the pros. Therefore, I know that I am done drinking.
That's the bravest thing I've read on the internet in a long, long time.
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aggiejim70
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In reply to 1997aggies • 12:16p, 6/22/20
AG
Well, it's been over two weeks. Just curious if you got some help.
The person that is not willing to fight and die, if need be, for his country has no right to life.

James Earl Rudder '32
January 31, 1945
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Gilligan
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7:43p, 6/24/20
AG
Fedup,

I am sorry for what you and your wife are going through with the loss of your BIL.

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aggiejim70
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5:24p, 7/15/20
AG
Howdy to all the Aggies in recovery. How's everybody doing? The Mrs. has TOLD me I'm staying home. So, I am. When my home group opened up, our ZOOM meetings stopped and haven't started up again. So it's been conversations with a sponsee (sp?), a few calls to old timers, an AA online board, and being on the sideline as someone I care about pursues it to the gates of insanity or death as he goes like a hurricane through his family. As right as the Big Book is on recovery, it's just as right on the folks that go the other way.

GIG EM

JEW III '70
The person that is not willing to fight and die, if need be, for his country has no right to life.

James Earl Rudder '32
January 31, 1945
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aggiejim70
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9:04p, 9/20/20
AG
Howdy Army. How's everybody doing? I'm kinda bummed as my often mention LSU AA buddy passed away last night after a long battle with cancer. It's almost like he willed himself to his 27th AA birthday last week.
The person that is not willing to fight and die, if need be, for his country has no right to life.

James Earl Rudder '32
January 31, 1945
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RickSawyer
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9:26p, 9/20/20
AG
Sorry to hear about your friend passing Jim.

I celebrated 5 years of sobriety on September 9th.
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aggiejim70
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In reply to RickSawyer • 7:27a, 9/21/20
AG
RickSawyer said:
Sorry to hear about your friend passing Jim.

I celebrated 5 years of sobriety on September 9th.
Congrats
The person that is not willing to fight and die, if need be, for his country has no right to life.

James Earl Rudder '32
January 31, 1945
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97
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In reply to A New Hope • 7:32a, 9/24/20
AG
Fedup said:
RickSawyer said:
Fedup said:
I told her, he'd be better off just drinking. Why bother. Not sure what al Anon teaches but it's bs.


With all do respect, you couldn't be more wrong. AA has been absolutely instrumental in the recovery of MILLIONS of people from addiction. It's saved lives, families, marriages... It heals people who are on the most destructive paths.

You are entitled to you opinion but that doesn't mean your opinion isn't completely moronic.

-Rick
I guess you're downright stupid then. He was a life long alcoholic with a dead liver so to stop drinking one week before he died made absolutely zero difference In his life Or death. For my wife to be banking her entire al Anon existence on that was nonsense.

Sounds like you need to work a 4th Step resentment exercise on your BIL and wife.
"Aggies don't lie, cheat, or steal, nor do they tolerate those who do!" - Aggie Code of Honor
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wbt5845
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2:42p, 9/24/20
AG
Glad this was bumped. Hope everyone is doing well.
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2:55a, 9/25/20
JoeCephas1974
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6:35p, 9/25/20
I'll admit I was skeptical of AA based on vague stories that I'd heard but I am now sober, working my 4th step, and getting closer to my Higher Power every day.
Fair winds and a following sea.
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aggiejim70
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In reply to JoeCephas1974 • 11:37p, 9/25/20
AG
I've seen maybe less than five people get goosed by the Holy Ghost and accept all of AA on day one. For the rest of us, just as stated in the Big Book, our spiritual experiences are of the learned variety, AA reminds me of moving to a new town and you have to find a new doctor, mechanic ,grocery store, barber etc. The more you find that they do what say they're going do, the better you feel about doing business with them. As you continue through the steps I feel you will find this true of AA. Don't hold back on that 4th step. All the best and we'll see you on the road of happy destiny.
The person that is not willing to fight and die, if need be, for his country has no right to life.

James Earl Rudder '32
January 31, 1945
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Pete Wallace
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In reply to aggiejim70 • 4:40p, 11/5/20
aggiejim70 said:
Don't be too hard on Rick, he's still in the evangelistic stage of recovery. Most of us have been through that. He felt he had to let you have it, both barrels. This too shall pass.


Tongue-in-cheek AA humor, fits this comment.
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aggiejim70
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In reply to Pete Wallace • 7:21a, 11/6/20
AG
I've seen that before, it's been around for years I guess we have to retain the ability to laugh at ourselves. Funny thing is though, no one, family, friends, or casual acquaintances, that knew me prior to 9/26/91 has ever encouraged me to start drinking again. I've had lots of people ask me if I think I'm still an alcoholic after all this time. That's why I'm so insistent on defining the term alcoholic. I'm absolutely convinced that the few people that have hassled me over the years about not drinking are concerned about their own problems with drink.
The person that is not willing to fight and die, if need be, for his country has no right to life.

James Earl Rudder '32
January 31, 1945
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