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Gunfight at the Twin Peaks [Staff Warning on page 47]

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Scruffy
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11:36p, 6/3/15
AG
This is just a plain Charlie Foxtrot now.

Waco the WPD sure as hell don't look good.
And as long as the video remains hidden (and you can't tell me the police didn't have cameras going for this thing) this just feeds the distrust of police and goverement.

What a mess.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Scruffy • 11:39p, 6/3/15
AG
quote:
This is just a plain Charlie Foxtrot now.

Waco the WPD sure as hell don't look good.
And as long as the video remains hidden (and you can't tell me the police didn't have cameras going for this thing) this just feeds the distrust of police and goverement.

What a mess.
If the Police thought they would have enough problems at an even that they deployed 18 officers including SWAT, they were dumb as **** for not recording it unless they had nefarious plans.


It would have been too difficult to roll one of these out there? There is one at every single construction site ever.

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txaggie02
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 11:42p, 6/3/15
AG
Maybe there was one there but it had a tarp over it.
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BoerneGator
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In reply to maverick2076 • 11:52p, 6/3/15
AG
quote:
Hell, WPD couldn't even tell you how many cops fired their weapons for several days, let alone how many rounds they fired.
The Waco PD had the wherewithal to know who had fired their weapon and how many rounds had been fired within an hour, or less, if they had wanted to reveal it. They certainly had determined that before the officers involved left duty that day/night. I'm afraid the WPD has adopted a bunker mentality for a very good (bad) reason. They figure the longer they can delay the truth from being known, the better for them re: the public backlash sure to come.
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SteveBott
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11:52p, 6/3/15
AG
Ballistics is key. Who shot who. Which bullit match the shot. Im not expecting clarity any time soon.
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Guitarsoup
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12:00a, 6/4/15
AG
I agree with Boerne. Police would have had to have known how many rounds their officers shot by the end of the day. It shouldn't have been that difficult to tell how many of the biker's guns had been shot the day of the shooting.
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BoerneGator
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12:02a, 6/4/15
AG
The forensic evidence will not lie, and it is already known, and under study. They know what type of weapon caused the deaths/wounds of most, if not all victims. I suspect that's a story the WPD is not anxious to have told, if what that attorney suggested is close to true. I've never believed the claim that (even a small group of) the bikers were shooting at the police. Why would they?
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Kenneth_2003
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12:02a, 6/4/15
AG
I don't know why Waco PD is worried. This isn't career ending for them. I know one south Texas force that will gladly hire them.
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Tantal
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12:08a, 6/4/15
There's unofficial rumor mill talk in the law enforcement community that some of these bikers received .308s to the face. Unless the bikers were weilding M1As or something, those are sniper rounds.
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BoerneGator
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In reply to Tantal • 12:15a, 6/4/15
AG
quote:
There's unofficial rumor mill talk in the law enforcement community that some of these bikers received .308s to the face. Unless the bikers were weilding M1As or something, those are sniper rounds.
The thought that we've come to the point that city police officers will shoot fellow Americans in that fashion with seeming prejudice is both chilling and saddening. It does not bode well for our future.
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ShaggyAggie01
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In reply to BoerneGator • 12:19a, 6/4/15
AG
quote:
quote:
There's unofficial rumor mill talk in the law enforcement community that some of these bikers received .308s to the face. Unless the bikers were weilding M1As or something, those are sniper rounds.
The thought that we've come to the point that city police officers will shoot fellow Americans in that fashion with seeming prejudice is both chilling and saddening. It does not bode well for our future.

if it is to stop an aggressor from killing another civilian or police officer, I don't see a difference from a pistol round.
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BoerneGator
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In reply to ShaggyAggie01 • 12:25a, 6/4/15
AG
My instincts tell me that not all of the dead and wounded were posing such a threat, but it's possible. The longer this drags out, the more suspicious I become of malfeasance. Hope I'm wrong.
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itsyourboypookie
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12:30a, 6/4/15
Had an interesting convo with a cop on the scene. He confirmed the Cossack to Bandido ratio. He also confirmed that some bikers were chl holders. Said the chl holders had multiple guns, some as many as four. I'll be meeting him again tomorrow. Any questions y'all want answered?
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FroggieBreath
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12:48a, 6/4/15
Sounds like a Bandidos' attorney.

Charity work: the mafia does similar stuff. What a scam cover. Thugs pure and simple.

Organized crime - end of story - boo hoo.
Spin spin spin
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Kenneth_2003
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In reply to itsyourboypookie • 1:25a, 6/4/15
AG
First question... Who fired first?

Were the deceased and wounded engaged in activities that justified use of deadly force from a unit not directly involved in the fight?

How many of the "weapons" confiscated were being actively brought to bear in the fight? How many of those weapons were discovered later and not involved in the immediate action?

Were any of the weapons being illegally carried and were any of them illegal in and of themselves?

Who shot who?

What did the cops know or think they knew ahead of time?

Should I go on?
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maverick2076
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6:00a, 6/4/15
It's doubtful you are going to get answers any time soon. Here is how Waco is treating requests for info that they are legally required to provide.

http://news.yahoo.com/waco-police-seeking-to-bar-information-about-texas-biker-shooting-034142932.html?bcmt=1433397555805-d6706190-6fb3-4aaa-88d5-d0138585e7af_00004b000000000000000000000000-9285146c-fe12-4188-ac40-f0f15254a49e&bcmt_s=u#mediacommentsugc_container
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45-70Ag
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In reply to ShaggyAggie01 • 6:44a, 6/4/15
AG
quote:
quote:
quote:
There's unofficial rumor mill talk in the law enforcement community that some of these bikers received .308s to the face. Unless the bikers were weilding M1As or something, those are sniper rounds.
The thought that we've come to the point that city police officers will shoot fellow Americans in that fashion with seeming prejudice is both chilling and saddening. It does not bode well for our future.

if it is to stop an aggressor from killing another civilian or police officer, I don't see a difference from a pistol round.



I may get crucified for asking this, but can't you get an ar15 chambered in .308?

If that is the case, could be a swat team with their "regular" carry rifle?
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ShaggyAggie01
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In reply to 45-70Ag • 8:05a, 6/4/15
AG
There is an ar-10 that looks like an ar15 and is 308. I have one. It is way too heavy for cqb. Some of our snipers had (have) them in Afghanistan.
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itsyourboypookie
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In reply to Kenneth_2003 • 11:04a, 6/4/15
quote:
First question... Who fired first?

Were the deceased and wounded engaged in activities that justified use of deadly force from a unit not directly involved in the fight?

How many of the "weapons" confiscated were being actively brought to bear in the fight? How many of those weapons were discovered later and not involved in the immediate action?

Were any of the weapons being illegally carried and were any of them illegal in and of themselves?

Who shot who?

What did the cops know or think they knew ahead of time?

Should I go on?


I'll see what I can do
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TexasRebel
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12:16p, 6/4/15
AG
Who killed whom...
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Player To Be Named Later
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In reply to Tantal • 12:37p, 6/4/15
AG
quote:
There's unofficial rumor mill talk in the law enforcement community that some of these bikers received .308s to the face. Unless the bikers were weilding M1As or something, those are sniper rounds.


Guess I'm not plugged in at all, because I haven't heard that.
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Expert Analysis
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1:08p, 6/4/15
AG
The differences in the witness stories from a Bandido and Cossack perspective are are complete 180. One says the other started it and did all the shooting, whereas the other says the same thing. I guess it's to be suspected, but when you factor in the complete BS being spewed by the police you got quite a mess.

I'm still waiting for the police video or surveillance video of where the shooting actually took place. Both Twin Peaks and Don Carlos apparently had video of the parking lot. If Waco PD/swat did not actually have video recording then it is clear they didn't want their actions recorded, because they should have had it all videoed since they were expecting violence.
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45-70Ag
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1:13p, 6/4/15
AG
Visiting Judge Denies Motion To Recuse Local Judges In Biker Cases
http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/Visiting-Judge-Denies-Motion-To-Recuse-Local-Judges-In-Biker-Cases-306142921.html
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Expert Analysis • 1:15p, 6/4/15
AG
quote:
The differences in the witness stories from a Bandido and Cossack perspective are are complete 180. One says the other started it and did all the shooting, whereas the other says the same thing. I guess it's to be suspected, but when you factor in the complete BS being spewed by the police you got quite a mess.

I'm still waiting for the police video or surveillance video of where the shooting actually took place. Both Twin Peaks and Don Carlos apparently had video of the parking lot. If Waco PD/swat did not actually have video recording then it is clear they didn't want their actions recorded, because they should have had it all videoed since they were expecting violence.


I don't know that we have heard any Bandidos perspective yet.

Twin Peaks did nut have video of the parking lot according to the AP.
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AggieOO
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2:05p, 6/4/15
don't worry, it was all a hoax



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AggieOO
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2:08p, 6/4/15
but for real if you want to read a bit more...forgive me if this one was already posted.

https://amyirenewhite.wordpress.com/2015/06/03/an-eyewitness-account-of-the-waco-biker-massacres/
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maverick2076
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3:59p, 6/4/15
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-texas-twin-peaks-bikers-20150604-story.html#page=2
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Expert Analysis
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 4:14p, 6/4/15
AG
they lawyer with the youtube video is telling the banditos story isn't he?

The AP only saw what they were showed.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Expert Analysis • 5:33p, 6/4/15
AG
quote:
they lawyer with the youtube video is telling the banditos story isn't he?

The AP only saw what they were showed.

The AP explicitly said that Twin Peaks had no exterior cameras.

He only said he is telling the story as he knows it from interviewing multiple people that were there that day and piecing together the facts by what matches up with other known facts.
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 5:59p, 6/4/15
AG
I did not hear the AP said they had no exterior cameras, thanks for the info.

So the lawyer is disregarding the Cossacks narrative of how it started and how a couple of thier members were initially killed? Those guys being dead is fact.

here is some more of the police story that goes against all other eye witness information and the interior video. http://www.kxxv.com/story/29240520/waco-pd-report-confirms-twin-peaks-victim-shot-inside-restaurant
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6:07p, 6/4/15
Guitarsoup
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In reply to Expert Analysis • 6:08p, 6/4/15
AG
quote:
So the lawyer is disregarding the Cossacks narrative of how it started and how a couple of thier members were initially killed? Those guys being dead is fact.
And them being dead fits the narrative that is coming out that the police did most of the killing, too.

Personally, I didn't find that Cossack narrative to be all that credible. By every account (and all the pics at the scene), there were many more Cossacks than there were Bandidos. So if they laid a trap and started shooting them when the Cossacks rolled up, why didn't they have more guys there? Also all the accounts that have come out this week have said the Cossacks were there early and had been parked a while.


quote:

here is some more of the police story that goes against all other eye witness information and the interior video. http://www.kxxv.com/story/29240520/waco-pd-report-confirms-twin-peaks-victim-shot-inside-restaurant
I think it is showing that the police aren't that reliable. I believe the AP report on the cameras.

The Police report says "They have an AR15."
Problem is the police did report that an AK47 was found in a car trunk, but have not mentioned a single long gun other than that AK47, even when they were saying a thousand weapons were found.

The Police report says "ADVISED THEY WERE SHOOTING AT KITCHEN WORKERS, MULTIPLE SHOTS FIRED INSIDE"
Problem is that the video shows that no one shot from inside the restaurant and that everyone went to the kitchen for cover. One person shot from the patio.
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6:11p, 6/4/15
O.G.
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6:13p, 6/4/15
A friend of mine is a Lawyer that has been assigned to the case and he texted me that some very heavy weight attorneys from Houston and DFW are getting involved now.
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TexasRebel
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6:17p, 6/4/15
AG
Fatties.
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