How about getting some of that mold of the right wall while you are at it.

Guess who doesn't have a calibrated monitor?

Hint: it's AggieDruggist89

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How about getting some of that mold of the right wall while you are at it.

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That's an easy fix actually...but nah...no more messing with someone else's pic..

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Guess who doesn't have a calibrated monitor?

Hint: it's AggieDruggist89

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I shouldn't really respond to a troll but... actually, my monitors are finely calibrated.

Thank you very much.

Not trolling...your pictures are all far too underexposed. I'd recalibrate.

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Not trolling...your pictures are all far too underexposed. I'd recalibrate.

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It has nothing to do with my screen but everything to do with my preference.

I feel the original picture is far too overexposed.. again different people have different opinions.

And it's not the screen calibration issue.

Photography is like making love to a beautiful woman.
It's expensive, everyone thinks they can do it and it usually involves retouching.

ehhh...photography is only expensive for an equipment ***** and the poor..

It is true, anyone can do it..

and even the best can benefit by some retouching.

There are photographers then there are artists who use photography to express their artistic side. Now that is what's rare.

Anybody can be a photographer. But not a gifted artist.

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ehhh...photography is only expensive for an equipment ***** and the poor..

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Or for a professional photographer. Newsflash: Photographers don't make pharmacist money. A lot of photography is very equipment-intensive. Some people go way overboard with it, but you also aren't going to be able to really cover a wedding or a football game with a rebel and a kit lens.

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and even the best can benefit by some retouching.

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What's funny is some of the "artistic photography purists" now that refuse to photoshop anything. Ansel Adams didn't print pictures straight out of the camera. He used the photoshop of the day - which was the dark room. He even wrote books on darkroom manipulation.

Edit: @ druggist not guitar.


scuse me? That has got to be the most arrogant thing I've ever heard someone say.

I know lots of fairly wealthy people who still cringe at what I scrimped and saved to buy, much less my first camera.

Photography can get expensive, "equipment *****" or not. Especially types of photography that requires longer telephotos of a reasonable quality.

[This message has been edited by Ag_of_08 (edited 8/16/2009 11:58a).]

Squeeze me Ag of 08.

You misunderstand. Anyone can be a photographer even with a cheap P&S. I meant to post pictures of a Russian Photographer who is absolutely fantastic... and the bulk of his pictures are taken with Canon 10D and some of the better pictures are taken with a Nikon Coolpix..

Photography only gets expensive when you want it to be..

If you want to be a professional and feel the need to have a Gigantic Canon L F2.8... then that's your tool of the trade..

But that's not a requirement for your ordinary folks who want to be a photographer.

No arrogance intended...now get your panties out of your wad.

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What's funny is some of the "artistic photography purists" now that refuse to photoshop anything. Ansel Adams didn't print pictures straight out of the camera. He used the photoshop of the day - which was the dark room. He even wrote books on darkroom manipulation.

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I have "The Negative" written by Ansel Adams. He writes in language I do not comprehend.

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Especially types of photography that requires longer telephotos of a reasonable quality.

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Are you mocking my $150 Canon 75-300mm Zoom???

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Photography only gets expensive when you want it to be..

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Not really. It depends on the situation at hand.

You can take pictures without a fancy camera, but you cannot cover all situations without certain things.

You could have all the talent in the world, but you can't take a 1:1 macro without a 1:1 macro lens.

I don't feel the need to do macro..

Again, it's expensive for you because you feel the need to cover all different situations..feel you need to have those lenses.

Being a photographer doesn't mean you have to do all that...it could simply mean taking pictures of your family and being able to do what you can with the equipment you have.

I shot with Canon FTb with 50mm f1.4 and nothing else since 1973 until 10 years ago. You're not going to tell me I'm not a photographer. Oh...and a flash and cheap tripod.

You can tell me I'm no artist... because I'm not and I know it.

So, I stand by my statement...photography is expensive only if you want it to be..

I agree with AggieDrugist in that a gifted photographer can get some great shots with a POS P&S. I think the problem is when you stop saying "get me some great shots" and start saying very specific things - that takes equipment in many cases.

I do agree though, equipment is no substitute for what is between the ears and too many people upgrade equipment (or buy equipment) to overcome issues that they are having because of them and not their current equipment - I don't think anyone else on the thread would disagree with that though.


Also - Guitarsoup - I want the MP-E 65mm so badly.

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Again, it's expensive for you because you feel the need to cover all different situations..feel you need to have those lenses.

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No. Not if I feel the need. But because it is my job. It is completely impossible for me to take the type of pictures I take with a disposable point and shoot.

Now you can do great things with landscapes with a point and shoot. But

It isn't about personal want. Taking pictures for fun and taking pictures professionally are two very different animals. If you enjoy it, you can make it as expensive or as cheap as you want.

When I teach, I have people start out with a cheap used camera body like the rebel or a 20D and get a 50m 1.8 lens - total investment of about $300.

A great photographer can get a great shot with any old POS camera. But you can't do every type of photography with it.

You can be a 'photographer' and take pictures. My mom takes pictures all the time. She wouldn't call herself a photographer. You could give a chimp a camera and he could take pictures, he is a photographer?

But it isn't always a "want" thing with equipment. There is a lot of equipment I wish I never had to buy, but it was necessary for a particular thing I did.

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I do agree though, equipment is no substitute for what is between the ears and too many people upgrade equipment (or buy equipment) to overcome issues that they are having because of them and not their current equipment - I don't think anyone else on the thread would disagree with that though.

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That's very true. There is a dentist that I know that volunteers his time as a photographer. He has the flash bracket, the nicest, newest flash, the 1D body, the L lens. And he shoots on P [which doesn't stand for professional] and he is not good at all. But he has mighty fine equipment. I know a ton of hobbyists like that. A lot of which have much nicer equipment than I do.

While it is often the case that people will over compensate for shortcomings with lens lust, L lust, etc- it is not always the case.

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Also - Guitarsoup - I want the MP-E 65mm so badly.

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Me too. Unfortunately, I have no even remote way to justify it. I love my 150mm macro and it works great with the 1.4x and 2x TCs. That's more than enough for me.

So what are you saying? In order to be aphotographer, you have to have all lenses and be able to shoot everything in different situation? Is being a professional photographer the only way you can label yourself a photographer?

Are you only a golfer if you're a professional or good at it?

Are you saying if you have a used Canon 20D and nifty fifty, you're not a photographer until you invest a lot of money in different equipment?

Again, it's your choice to be a professional photographer and feel the need to cover all.. It's your choice to do it for a living.

For those of use whos don't, we don't need all different expensive equipment. Many many good photographers ran around town with Canon AE-1, 1 prime lens and 1 Vivtar zoom and made a career out of it.

Again, no matter how you slice it and dice it, it's expensive because you want it to be.

I don't care if you call your mom a photographer or not. I bet she takes good pictures.

and you being a professional, it's a different story. These are tools of your trade. Considering it's a business, it's a rather low investment business.

Consider dentistry..what kind of equipment invenstment are we talkinga bout? Restaurant? About 200K in kitchen equipment?

Look at different types of businesses and see how much money is invested before they can make a dime?

Now..to say photography can get expensive.. it applies to hobbyists.. yes it can get expensive most likely they won't make a dime from it..yet because they feel the need to have all different lenses, bodies, and other toys to go with it, it gets expensive.

Yeah...$6,000 Tele L lens is expensive..and $7,000 1DsMKIII isn't that cheap... but what about that landscaper who's pulling a trailer with with his brand spanking new Ford 350 dually?

Druggist,

You know exactly what he is saying and your only trying to be difficult. You can't shoot sports well with a Rebel XT and a 50mm. Sure, there are some shots that you can get but for the most part anyone would be lacking.

Equipment isn't a must for most of us, myself included, but some folks do need certain types of equipment to get the quality shots that they want.

Quit being an ass.

That being said...

100mm f2.8 macro for $350. Good price or not?

RedAgs,

I'm only an ass to an ass..

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You know exactly what he is saying and your only trying to be difficult. You can't shoot sports well with a Rebel XT and a 50mm. Sure, there are some shots that you can get but for the most part anyone would be lacking.

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What's wrong with 75-300mm that only costs $150. It's not perfect...but its good enough to capture sports.

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but some folks do need certain types of equipment to get the quality shots that they want.

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Isn't that what I'm saying? They want it.. therefore they'll pay for the expensive lens.

Before calling me difficult and an ass, I'm only difficult and ass in response.

I guess cops carry a gun, baton, taser, and drive a car because they want to. Again, you are just trying to be difficult.

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"Cause at Allred Motors, it's not about your credit. It's about who you are, and what you got goin for you...as a person"

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So what are you saying? In order to be aphotographer, you have to have all lenses and be able to shoot everything in different situation? Is being a professional photographer the only way you can label yourself a photographer?

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That's clearly not what I am saying. I walk around everywhere with a Canon Powershot SD890 IS. Not exactly the most high tech of all cameras.

Anyone can have an exposure taken with just about anything. A pinhole camera can be made for next to nothing.

And no, professional photographers are obviously not the only type of photographer.

But you are insisting that gear is simply a matter of WANT, which is not true.

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Are you saying if you have a used Canon 20D and nifty fifty, you're not a photographer until you invest a lot of money in different equipment?

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I never said that.

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Again, it's your choice to be a professional photographer and feel the need to cover all.

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Having it be my job dictates that there are certain things I have to buy that are not optional. They are not things I want, but rather things I need.

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Considering it's a business, it's a rather low investment business.

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Depends. There are a bunch of stay at home moms that try to call themselves professional photographers after getting a rebel kit from costco for Christmas and all their friends raving about how good their eye is. That was a low investment.

But you also don't find a lot of photographers making a lot of returns on their investment.

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Consider dentistry..what kind of equipment invenstment are we talkinga bout? Restaurant? About 200K in kitchen equipment?

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But consider the returns they make on that investment. A restaurant thats hopping grosses 5k a night? When I was a head waiter in HS, we would do about 5k gross in sales on a Friday and that was a dozen years ago. Not even a place like Giddings makes 5k gross a day in sales.

So the entry cost is lower, but so is the earning potential. But then, only the extremely misguided would become a photographer for the earning potential.

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Yeah...$6,000 Tele L lens is expensive..and $7,000 1DsMKIII isn't that cheap... but what about that landscaper who's pulling a trailer with with his brand spanking new Ford 350 dually?

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But do you NEED the 350 Dually? I did landscaping with a F150 for a few years.

Take a sports shooter - which is easily the most equipment-intensive pro shooter.
http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/2212
To cover the Final Four for USA Today, they had:

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1400 feet fiber cable
• 2 fiber transceivers, to connect fiber to Ethernet
• 2 fiber patch cables and 4 ST to ST barrel connectors (for fiber)
• 3 8-port Network switches
• 1 router
• Several Ethernet patch cords
• 1,004 feet Ethernet cable
• RJ-45 ez plugs
• Cable stripping tools, for making the Ethernet connections
• Ethernet network tester (so easy to mess up the 8 wire plug installs)
• 4 or 5 power strips
• 2 25-foot AC extension cords
• 8 Nikon WT-4 wi-fi transmitters with either AC adapters or several extra batteries
• 500-feet zip cord for remotes
• 6 Nikon motor drive remote cords
• 4 floor plates and low, small ball heads

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Oh yeah, and they had cameras, too.
They used four remote and four hand held cameras to shoot. Each with a lens.

This is how Sports Illustrated covers NBA games:
http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/2159

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During the course of the average NBA game, John will use 12-14 cameras, which include eight remotes and two hand held cameras running on the Flash Wizard system, and other cameras that are shot off-system during the games and several cameras used only for pre-game

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1. Flash Wizard Case: Lightware Cargo Case
• Case with 10 Flash Wizard II units, antennas, and mounting posts
• Case with six Pocket Wizard Multi-Max units, sync cords, pre-releases, backup cords
• Various pouches with camera-Y cords to connect cameras to Flash Wizards, extensions, master cables, strobe sync cords, master connections and backups, backup cords

2. Grip Case #1
• Assorted super clamps and new larger Bogen clamps for new, larger NBA stanchions
• Four Wizard Tree mounts
• Pouch with safety cables and locks in Think Tank pouch
• Three ballheads
• Two Bogen gear heads
• Pouch of extra camera platforms for Magic Arms
• Speed Rail lengths and knuckle to mount on NBA digital shot clocks when no mounts are available.
• Extra bolts, pads, and repair accessories for clamps and grip equipment
• Butt pad

3. Grip Case #2
• Fifteen magic arms with camera platforms or double super clamps that are used as supports. All are labeled for their use.
• Another butt pad

4. Accessories Case
• Six D3 battery chargers (in black pouches)
• 16 D3 batteries, 3 D300 batteries and a D300 battery charger in Think Tank pouches
• Roll of zip cord
• Three 36-packs of AA batteries
• Four 8-packs of AA Lithium batteries
• Tons of black and grey gaff tape, as well as black and clear vinyl tape for backboards and courts, and paper tape for on the court
• Two packs of 18-inch heavy duty zip ties to safety cameras
• Pouch with spare electrical doo-dads and doo-hickeys
• Pouch with Magic Arm and other repair parts
• Extension cords and power strip
• AC power supplies for cameras
• Assorted gobos
• Focus cards



Photo by Shawn Cullen

Jordan Murph picks up the equipment at the Southwest Airlines Air Cargo facility in San Diego, CA after returning from the Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Portland Trailblazers NBA game the previous night in Portland, OR.
5. Lens Case
• Four 17-35mm f/2.8 zooms
• Two 12-24mm f/2.8 zooms
• Two 24-70mm f/2.8 zooms
• Two 70-200mm f/2.8 zooms
• Two 20mm f/2.8
• Two 24mm f/2.8
• Two 35mm f/2
• Lots of rubber lens hoods
• Assorted polarizing filters
• Right angle finder

6. Camera Body Case
• Six Nikon D3 bodies. One floor, one drone, two glass, one shot clock, one arch
• Two Nikon D300 bodies. One midcourt, one handheld

7. 3+4 Case
• 200-400mm zoom
• 300mm f/2.8
• Three Nikon D3 bodies
• Two monopods

8. Tool Case
• Three rolls of zip for mystery arenas
• My tool bag, a Think Tank Change Up. See Darren Carroll's article: http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1315. There is usually candy in there too.
• My tool pouch with a multi-tool, pliers, and outlet tester. Thanks, Shawn!

John also brings along his Think Tank Airport Security roller where he carries three Nikon D3 bodies as well as his main lenses including a 70-200mm f/2.8, 24-70mm f/2.8, and a 14-24mm f/2.8, and 16mm f/2.8 fisheye.

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You wanna total up all that equipment and see what it costs?

You think a landscaper is hauling around that much? Of course, unless they live in NYC, that photographer probably owns a car or truck, too.

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What's wrong with 75-300mm that only costs $150. It's not perfect...but its good enough to capture sports.

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Slow to focus if it even captures the focus - which in sports is not a sure thing as the subject is probably constantly moving. Also doesn't let in a lot of light, so your pictures may be completely underexposed when you are shooting in a gym or a dark stadium at night, which is where lots of sporting events are. Because it has a small aperture, you aren't getting a very shallow depth of field and your pictures won't be isolating your subject very well, which will make for weaker pictures.

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Before calling me difficult and an ass, I'm only difficult and ass in response.

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No, you are being belligerent. It was someone else being an ass about your edits, not me.

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I'm only an ass to an ass..

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Yeah, its a real ass hole thing of me to spend my free time making this thread to help people out.


[This message has been edited by Guitarsoup (edited 8/16/2009 9:55p).]

Children, children can't we all just get along?

This thread is for information not petty fights about nothing. It takes two to fight...

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What's wrong with 75-300mm that only costs $150. It's not perfect...but its good enough to capture sports.

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Good enough if it's bright daylight, or you like shooting at iso3200 and still having motion blur. Add that to the fact that even with a 1d's focus drive you can't effectively track a running player with it.

Sorry, I had to run damage control a few to many times after people(sales associates or other "photographers" ) told people to snap out and buy that lens for sports, then had customers come in PISSED because it wouldn't work. I went out far enough on a limb to put my own hardware on other people cameras a few times, then hunt better lenses down for them on the net. That lens flat out is not a sports lens for anything effectively, and especially not at night under stadium lights.

____________________________________________________________
Proudest member of the Fightin Texas Aggie class of 08 Beat the h*** outa tu A Whoop!!!.
= texags


[This message has been edited by Ag_of_08 (edited 8/16/2009 10:59p).]

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This is how Sports Illustrated covers NBA games:

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Do you cover NBA games for Sports Illustrated? How many people into Photography cover NBA for SI?

Would you say what you're talking about is probably an extreme end? Do you want me to use an extreme analogy in Landscaping?

Don't forget, it all started because you said photography is expensive and I simply said it's only expensive if you want it to be. Photography does not have to be expensive and not everyone shoots for NBA for SI.

Do you need all that to do photography?
Yes or NO.

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You wanna total up all that equipment and see what it costs?

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Go ahead..add it up.

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But do you NEED the 350 Dually? I did landscaping with a F150 for a few years.

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You just proved my point. Again, photography is only expensive if you want it to be. Only a handful of people or anyone who ever posted on this thread will ever need all that equipment.

I never said photography is cheap or not expensive. I simply said it's only expensive if you want it to be. You're the one keep adding fuel to the fire.

btw, you don't need to explain to me why faster large aperture tele lens is better than 75-300mm.

And don't confuse photographer having to make living with their tools of the trade to your typical photographers. Not everyone of us will be out there shooting NBA for SI.

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Yeah, its a real ass hole thing of me to spend my free time making this thread to help people out.

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And your expertise and opinions are appreciated. But you don't have to be the only one with an opinion and you don't always have to oppose other's opinion just because you don't agree with it. Unless this is a private thread...and you want to treat it as such because you started it.






[This message has been edited by AggieDruggist89 (edited 8/18/2009 9:17a).]

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Sorry, I had to run damage control a few to many times after people(sales associates or other "photographers" ) told people to snap out and buy that lens for sports, then had customers come in PISSED because it wouldn't work. I went out far enough on a limb to put my own hardware on other people cameras a few times, then hunt better lenses down for them on the net. That lens flat out is not a sports lens for anything effectively, and especially not at night under stadium lights.

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Better than P&S.

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Children, children can't we all just get along?

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No..haven't you learned... Nikon vs. Canon fight has been going on for decades..and it aint over yet.

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This thread is for information not petty fights about nothing. It takes two to fight...

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I think this little p**sing match can be insightful to some... This could help some who's on the fence about "Do I really need that lens" decide what to do..

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I guess cops carry a gun, baton, taser, and drive a car because they want to. Again, you are just trying to be difficult.

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Don't confuse professional vs. hobbyist.

Who's being difficult?

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Do you cover NBA games for Sports Illustrated? How many people into Photography cover NBA for SI?

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Not yet at least, although sports is something I enjoy, it isn't really my forte.
SI gets a lot of their pictures from wire services. Their staff is about 20 photographers, but they hire out a lot of freelancers. At something like the SuperBowl, they will have someone on every corner of the field, then people shooting from above as well. But for a normal event, SI doesn't have the staff to cover every NFL game, every NBA game, every college game, etc. They get most of their pics from guys with Getty, AP, US Presswire, etc. And most of those guys have tons of gear like that.

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Would you say what you're talking about is probably an extreme end? Do you want me to use an extreme analogy in Landscaping?

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The vast majority of landscapers probably aren't driving brand new F350 Dualies. I see them all the time in 15 year old pickups.
A typical sports photographer that makes his living at Sports photography will have a kit of something like:
(just going to just Nikon for this, as they are the current leaders in digital imaging)
2-3 Nikon D3 @ $5,000 each
1-2 Nikon D300 or D700 @ 1700 or 2700 each
1-2 Nikkor 14-24 or 17-35 @ 1800 each
1-2 Nikkor 24-70 2.8 @ 2000 each
1-2 Nikkor 70-200 2.8 @1900 each
1 Nikkor 85mm 1.8 @ 450 each
1 300mm 2.8 @ 5300 each
or
1 200-400mm 4 @ 6200 each
1 400mm 2.8 @ 9000
1 500mm or 600mm F4 @ 10,000 each
6-8 pocket wizards @ 189 each
Strobes (A lot of guys I know that do this carry 3 white lightning 3200 strobes, which run 700 each. Plus all the stupid accessories you have to buy.)
Yeah, that not so cheap, and that is very typical. A lot of guys are getting the 200-400 and selling the 300mm. A lot still keep that 400 2.8 because it is so long and fast. It is pretty much the defining glass for decades. In some field sports games you are required to stay in a certain location, in which case, you have to have the 500 or 600 to shoot across the field.

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Don't forget, it all started because you said photography is expensive and I simply said it's only expensive if you want it to be. Photography does not have to be expensive

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If it is your career, it is a necessity that it is expensive. It isn't a want thing.

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Do you need all that to do photography?
Yes or NO.

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Is taking snapshots with a disposable camera photography?

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You're the one keep adding fuel to the fire.

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Yes, you are a perfect little angel. You insulted me out of the blue for no reason.

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If it is your career, it is a necessity that it is expensive. It isn't a want thing.

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And this applies to how many photographers? And did someone force you to become a photographer? It was life decision you made based on your wants and desires of your life. It's a want.



Is taking snapshots with a disposable camera photography?

I say Yes. It can be. Why not?

You on the other hand can't answer a Yes or No question.

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Yes, you are a perfect little angel. You insulted me out of the blue for no reason.

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Pot calling kettle.....

By the way..heck no I'm not a perfect little angel. You throw a jab..I'll throw a jab right back. Scroll up and see where the jab was thrown.